*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 21, 2018, 04:51:26 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1219445
  • Total Topics: 85963
  • Online Today: 98
  • Online Ever: 697
  • (July 31, 2016, 09:46:52 PM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: New 2mm Renaissance Range  (Read 537 times)

Offline Forwardmarchstudio

  • assistant
  • Posts: 31
New 2mm Renaissance Range
« on: April 16, 2018, 06:38:35 AM »
Hi all,

Just a sneak peak at my upcoming 2mm print-on-demand Renaissance range...





The first model above is 100mm wide and 80mm deep, the one below it is 70mm wide and 60mm deep.  Both models contain over 600 individual pike tips, which despite the fine scale and crisp detail are nevertheless extremely durable and resistant to damage.  For those who haven't seen Shapeways plastic up close, it is much tough than either pewter or hard plastic.

Many more of these will be coming, and a few are already available in my Shapeways store:

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/forwardmarchstudios

I am basing my formations and units on period woodblock cuttings, so there will be many, many more versions of these pike-and-shot units, in many sizes and formations.  My goal is to have as exhaustive a collection of period tactical deployments as I can, stretching from the Thirty Years War and ECW through the GNW. 

The new version of my figures have larger, more robust bases, better resolution and finer detail than the old ones.  An example of the new models can bee seen here:



These are the Horse and Musket figures, but the individual figures in the Renaissance range are the same.  These French infantry are mounted on 40mm wide bases.   For those who missed it, the original Renaissance figures looked like this:



The new range is broadly the same, except the figures are on slightly thicker bases, and with better detail.  The shot are the biggest improvement; they'll use the new infantry models.  The pike are almost unchanged, although slightly taller.

More updates as they come.  Let me know if anyone has any requests for tactical deployments!   I have a list, but I can always use some more ideas!

And, if you've purchased some of the older versions, don't worry; they should work fine with the new ones.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 07:16:50 AM by Forwardmarchstudio »

Offline robh

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • scatterbrained genius
  • *
  • Posts: 2037
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 05:51:22 PM »
Those bases look really good. If you get enough variant deployments they would be perfect for the "Tercios" rules.
The formations they use for the different historic deployments are here:
http://elkraken.es/released/en/basing-guide/

Are your non pike infantry limited to shoulder to shoulder or can you do a 3 rank unit of 2 rear formed and 1 front staggered as if advancing/skirmishing? Thinking that ACW big battle games would be great in this scale.

Offline Forwardmarchstudio

  • assistant
  • Posts: 31
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 06:33:43 PM »
Hi Rob-

Yes, I've done skirmish models like that before.  Very do-able.  That's a good idea actually; I'll try to put something like that together and post it up here. 

The Tercio rules are a nice guide- I can definitely do something like that.  In fact, I'm going to try to get some figures out very shortly that allow you to do Marston Moor at a relatively affordable scale, with each infantry unit on a 60mm base with 1/3 pike and 2/3 shot.  The cavalry can be recreated using the basic cavalry models (although I do plan on putting together a 3 rank cavalry model at the very least, for the SYW). These could also be used for the GNW, of course.

I also want to do a model of a tercio with cavalry marching alongside it instead of infantry; I've seen this in woodblock prints and it looks very cool.  I've also got a "leveled pike" block that I'm working on that looks pretty cool, if I do say so myself.  I have yet to test the printability of it, but I'm fairly confident that it'll work. Lancer cavalry are another model that I've really improved upon; these will be invaluable for showing men-at-arms and other lance-armed cav, and coud obviously be used for a lot of different periods.

I'll be getting out most of the basic stuff in the new range over the next week or two.  This includes 20mm, 30mm, 40mm and 60mm bases for the infantry in 2, 3 and 4 ranks.   The cavalry will come in the same sizes.  After that's done, I'll be putting out a few more artillery codes, including sprues of caissons, limbers and supply wagons.  During this period I'll be adding to the Renaissance figures as well. 

Once I'm done with just those models most units from the WSS to the FPW will be possible. By using difference sized bases you could do entire large battles with smaller, single bases units, or smaller battles with very large battalions. 


Offline Goliad

  • librarian
  • Posts: 114
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 06:46:50 PM »
Ancients next?

Offline fred

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • mastermind
  • *
  • Posts: 1581
    • Miniature Gaming
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 07:38:07 PM »
These do look very effective.

Offline DivisMal

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 868
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 09:01:32 PM »
Wow. That actually looks pretty good. I always regretted that battles as we have from written sources for the 30 years war were impossible to depict in any scale... i never thought 2mm might do the tri k.

Do you actually paint the models or just use the plastic color?

Offline Forwardmarchstudio

  • assistant
  • Posts: 31
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 09:12:48 PM »
Hi DivisMal

I agree- the 2mm figures work particularly well for the Renaissance.
I always paint the models; the pike block in the picture in my post in painted.  The nylon plastic has some unique physical features that make painting is very easy.  You can dye the plastic any color you want, once.  After that you can ink it, wash it, or paint it like normal.  You don't have to base coat with spray paint.  They paint won't/can't come off.  It makes getting these figures ready for games very easy.  The pike blocks can be painted in about 5 minutes of work, although it can take awhile for the initial dye-wash to dry. 

I'm trying to get together enough pike units to do some small battles with pictures; I think people will be pretty impressed when they see entire battles put together.  Marston Moor is probably up first, since its pretty easy to model.  The TYW is a bit trickier research-wise, but I've got good sources on how everything should look.  The idea is for the table to look like a 3d woodblock print.

Offline DivisMal

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 868
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 10:32:37 PM »
Hi DivisMal

I agree- the 2mm figures work particularly well for the Renaissance.
I always paint the models; the pike block in the picture in my post in painted.  The nylon plastic has some unique physical features that make painting is very easy.  You can dye the plastic any color you want, once.  After that you can ink it, wash it, or paint it like normal.  You don't have to base coat with spray paint.  They paint won't/can't come off.  It makes getting these figures ready for games very easy.  The pike blocks can be painted in about 5 minutes of work, although it can take awhile for the initial dye-wash to dry. 

I'm trying to get together enough pike units to do some small battles with pictures; I think people will be pretty impressed when they see entire battles put together.  Marston Moor is probably up first, since its pretty easy to model.  The TYW is a bit trickier research-wise, but I've got good sources on how everything should look.  The idea is for the table to look like a 3d woodblock print.

Thanks for the quick reply! Iím really excited about the possibilities this opens up. 30yw is maybe easier to research for me....many original sources are still understandable if youíre a native speaker and there are a lot of pretty good overviews (these are also available in English). Iíve been dreaming for ages to get Breitenfeld or LŁtzen on the table!

Offline Forwardmarchstudio

  • assistant
  • Posts: 31
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2018, 12:45:48 AM »
Hi again DivisMal-

Lutzen should be easy to do with just a few more models. 
Actually, I have a question or two for you...

I'm looking at this woodcut:



Zooming in on the Swedes, what I'm seeing are basically two distinction sizes of pike and shot unit; larger, 5-flagged blocks with the shot deployed in the rear, and smaller, 3-flagged units in support positions.  Do you know the average size of these Swedish units, compared to the Holy Roman Empire/Catholic League tercios?  If I have some good averages I can get the relative proportions of these units correct down to the man.  Also, how big were the cavalry units, and how deep did they fight?  I was thinking that my regular cavalry bases would be fine; if you want to place them in depth you just stack the bases two or three deep.

I was thinking that my regular 20mm infantry might actually be better than a solid square.  With two rectangles you can make a square shot block, or you can wrap the rectangles around the tercio to show them taking shelter from cavalry.  That's how the model in the picture up above is made. 

The wood block linked above is the look I'm going for with my range. 

Offline DivisMal

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 868
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2018, 12:49:29 AM »
I know this picture and Iím pretty sure I can answer your question with a little bit of research in my home library. I think Margret Atwood gave pretty exact number for that specific battle.

Problem is, Iím currently on holiday and far away from the books I need. I will come back on the weekend (from lovely Madeira, untouched by tercio warfare) and hope to find the passage then.

Offline Forwardmarchstudio

  • assistant
  • Posts: 31
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 12:58:33 AM »
Margaret Atwood??  I'd be curious to read that, haha. 
Where did she write about the TYW??

It wasn't that big a battle in absolute numbers; I could probably get very close to the actual numbers of troops without breaking the bank.  I'm going to make a model of that church in Lutzen as well; that'll be easy and I've been looking for centerpieces to place inside of towns.  I have some buildings now but I don't have the big "wow" pieces that the towns really need. 

Enjoy your vacation, and when you get back let me know.  I'll do some research myself- I can probably find out pretty easily.  I met a Swedish guy last year here in California who was in some PhD history program and he broke down all the numbers for me (he was blown away by the 2mm Renaissance stuff when he saw it in person), but now I forget them all.  I remember that the period was one of constant innovation and evolution, which makes it very interesting from a modeling perspective.


Offline WFGamers

  • bookworm
  • Posts: 83
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 01:31:43 AM »
I would be very cautious using the most common pictures of Lutzen and many TYW battles they are not very accurate. The pike block with 4 blocks of shot for example was not used in the TYW or indeed for sometime before then. They just use it to show the units are Catholic.

The Swedish units are 'Brigades' so the 5 flagged block and two 3 flagged blocks plus associated musketeers (think of them as 4 groups) are a single brigade. The brigades varied in size from 1110 to 2036, average maybe 1500? Weapon ratios also varied but are usually reckoned to be 4 shot to 3 pikes on average.

The Imperialists were also in 'brigades' or battalions/battalia' with again various sizes but around 1000. They would look like standard ECW type units but with up to 10 ranks.

Both sides cavalry units varied in size but were usually grouped together into 'squadrons' of circa 500. Imperialists were generally 6 deep and the Swedes from 3 to 6 depending on type.

There is a very good new modern book on this battle - https://global.oup.com/academic/product/lutzen-9780199642540?cc=us&lang=en&

Offline Forwardmarchstudio

  • assistant
  • Posts: 31
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 01:49:33 AM »
Hi WFGamer-
I'll have to check out that book. 
Thanks for the heads up on the sources; I'll have to be cautious heading into this. The modular idea is probably the direction I'll put most of my efforts towards in this period.  that way I don't have to get everything perfect, just provide the tools for other people to get it perfect.

Goliad- I will eventually do some ancients and medieval.  I have to figure out a way to make good looking bows first.  I have some lancers on the way.  I think elephants and chariots would look really good in this style.

That said, here's a Swedish style pike unit with 6 ranks of pike and shot.  It's on a 60mm base and represents about 500 or so men.  There are 150 actual pike tips modeled on it (one quarter the size of the tercio model)



I can probably take out every other shot figure to show the space they would walk up.  Here they're all shoulder-to-shoulder.  This model should work for the ECW as well. 

How would a Catholic TYW unit look different from this?


I will make the central pike block available as a separate piece, so that gamers who want the flexibility can deploy the shot in different positions as required. 

You kind of have to imagine how the infantry will look once painted up; just check out the French above for an idea.  You can get a lot of detail onto them very quickly with some slash-and-dot-work.


« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 04:33:20 AM by Forwardmarchstudio »

Offline WFGamers

  • bookworm
  • Posts: 83
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 10:32:41 AM »
Hi WFGamer-
I'll have to check out that book. 
Thanks for the heads up on the sources; I'll have to be cautious heading into this. The modular idea is probably the direction I'll put most of my efforts towards in this period.  that way I don't have to get everything perfect, just provide the tools for other people to get it perfect.

Sounds like a good plan as many gamers will still believe that the old ideas are correct and so want to build units different to reality.


Quote
That said, here's a Swedish style pike unit with 6 ranks of pike and shot.  It's on a 60mm base and represents about 500 or so men.  There are 150 actual pike tips modeled on it (one quarter the size of the tercio model)



Forgive me if I misunderstand but this picture of a later Swedish unit looks to be circa 180 men, rather than circa 500?

Quote
I can probably take out every other shot figure to show the space they would walk up.  Here they're all shoulder-to-shoulder.  This model should work for the ECW as well. 

They had stopped doing this by the time of the ECW and probably also by the time the Swedes swapped to this formation.

Quote
How would a Catholic TYW unit look different from this?

A big question as it varies over time and also in different armies. But in general they would look the same/similar but with more ranks until later in the war. It also varied according to circumstances. At Lutzen they are supposed to be in 10 ranks but probably formed in 7 ranks because they were outnumbered and so may have 'thinned' to occupy more space.


Offline DivisMal

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 868
Re: New 2mm Renaissance Range
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2018, 11:06:01 AM »
Margaret Atwood??  I'd be curious to read that, haha. 
Where did she write about the TYW??

I might have had too much beer yesterday or simply get old. I think it was a Mrs. C.V. Wedgewood who wrote one of the great histies of the TYW...and somehow I intermixed her name wih Atwood and reconstructed the first name...