Lead Adventure Forum

Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Happy Wanderer on December 14, 2017, 06:50:48 AM

Title: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Happy Wanderer on December 14, 2017, 06:50:48 AM

Gents,

Please feel free to pop on over to the blog and read the AAR for out latest engagement - a clash between the Khedive's Egyptian army and the Ethiopian forces of King John.

All spiffy stuff with lots of good looking lead...plus a few afterthoughts of TMWWBK rules.

Enjoy

Happy Wanderer

https://wp.me/p1YrZG-1AE

(https://agrabbagofgames.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/header-2.jpg?w=809)

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: marianas_gamer on December 14, 2017, 11:42:23 AM

Very nice game with well painted minis. I wonder if the Ethiopians would have done better in more rugged terrain that bloked line of sight. Great AAR! Thanks
LB

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Happy Wanderer on December 14, 2017, 11:52:58 AM

"I wonder if the Ethiopians would have done better in more rugged terrain that blocked line of sight. "

I think they would certainly be helped. However, artillery reduces cover by 1 so being fired on by artillery even in terrain is rather nasty.

From small arms, it helps but 12 shots down range are still likely to cause a casualty and thus a pin test and...well, you get the idea.

I think that firepower into any terrain is still effective enough to stop a unit and inflict the possibility of a pin...eg at 5+ to hit that is...12/3=4 hits @2 per model loss in cover ie 2 models dead = pin test at -2drm @morale of 7+ ie you need a 9+ to pass the test else pinned ie 27% chance of passing...so goes the math o_o

 Then starts the possible rally-pin-rally sequence. Hence my idea of 'rally with elan'.

...regardless, it was a top clash and mixing things up with unit characteristics will also help...we just like the idea of mixing it up with rally with elan!  ;)

HW

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Traveler Man on December 14, 2017, 04:55:42 PM

Great AAR, thanks for sharing.  :)

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Marine0846 on December 14, 2017, 05:39:05 PM

Love your battle report.
Excellent terrain and figures.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: DintheDin on December 14, 2017, 07:44:02 PM

I enjoyed your AAR, it was really thrilling! Very nice minis and terrain, it must have been a very enjoyable game!
I second your "Rally with Elan" proposal, I'll introduce it to the fellas and try it for our next TMWWBK game! Cheers!

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: juergen c. olk on December 15, 2017, 02:18:41 AM

Great idea or game..beautiful figures as per your usual talent..Well done.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Plynkes on December 15, 2017, 10:08:50 AM

Pics look great. The words will have to wait until after work, I'm afraid. I think it is unreasonable that they won't pay me to read battle reports.  :D

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Happy Wanderer on December 15, 2017, 10:15:55 AM

...bloody unreasonable!  :D

HW

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: jambo1 on December 15, 2017, 01:21:07 PM

Great looking game and lovely figures. Nice to see some other armies get a look in, really good to see. :)

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: commissarmoody on December 15, 2017, 02:01:49 PM

A great read, and I enjoyed all the photos.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 15, 2017, 04:47:01 PM

Great report!  :-*

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: SteveBurt on December 15, 2017, 05:02:35 PM

I like the 'rally with elan' idea as well.
In our games we found the tribal player ended up with pretty much all his units pinned after a few turns, which is pretty frustrating.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Happy Wanderer on December 15, 2017, 07:31:09 PM

Thanks chaps,

It seems we are not the only ones to find the ‘all tribals pinned’ effect being more common than perhaps it should be.

The current consensus seems that you end up with the Omdurman effect where Tribals never close with firepower troops. Whilst this isn’t ‘wrong’, in a balanced game it seems a bit off when the Tribal player has to get everything right to even have a chance of closing into hand to hand.

Other AARs I’ve read emphasise the need to soften up troops before combat, particularly if they defend obstacles which is impossible for tribals to ever be able to do..this IMHO is the tilt too much toward firepower.

If you can neither close with, nor if you do, you then have a very low chance of inflicting sufficient casualties then that does make you think a bit about the balance. To be fair, we must not forget the variable scenario and leadership characteristics which mixes this up, but at its core you do have to wrestle with this aspect of the rules.

We do after all want to defend the barricades but the poor old tribals never seem to get to them! If there were twice as many tribals vs firepower foot then this would be OK but in a game where generally tribals only exceed equivalent point firepower troops by a factor of 1.25 to 1.5, perhaps 2.0 at most, then you end up with the Omdurman effect even when there is terrain on table.

As long as firepower can be delivered into terrain then the chances are a pin will eventually result. To be fair, in our game we did use oversized armies on the same table space so perhaps this exacerbated the firepower-pin effect, but we have seen this in standard 24pt games.

Hopeful the rally with elan idea will just moderate this a bit and produce slightly more balance in an equal point game. I’m inclined to think it might be best reserved for non firepower equipped troops only, idea being that these troops need to close to contact to have any chance whereas firepower troops are less likely to seek that need perhaps keeping the 'roll 12 and you always rally' rule for everyone.

The other historical option is simply to double the number of units of tribals and see how that goes...but no one would propose a game where 70 odd firepower troops take on 250+ figures on table...though it would probably provide the right effect and look great...but you can’t sell a game like that. That off course would apply perhaps to a specific scenario such as a frontal assault vs a defender position, or something like that...the Rorke’s Drift situation.

Bottom line is that it’s only a minor tweak of an otherwise great game and if it if increases the enjoyment of the tribal player and increases the stress/tension for the firepower player, then that seems a good thing.

...interesting thoughts.

HW

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Plynkes on December 15, 2017, 09:21:27 PM

A splendid treat, HW! Great visuals and an interesting battle. Nice to see bashi-bazouks on the field. It's a toss-up between them and Ruga-Ruga for the prize of Plynkes' Favourite Irregular Troops (a coveted award). I think it comes from reading Tintin as a child, as that was one of Captain Haddock's favourite insults. Even though little Plynkes didn't have the vaguest idea what a bashi-bazouk was, he was intrigued by the sound of the words and imagined all kinds of things. At last I get to see them in battle. I've been waiting rather a long time. :D


Seems we are a growing faction, those of us who like TMWWBK, but grumble from the sidelines about certain aspects of it. I think your observations are pretty well identical to my own. I'm looking forward to seeing how the various tweaks that you've been suggesting play out. I've found your ideas very interesting (and hopefully they'll be helpful too), so thanks again for that.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Patrice on December 18, 2017, 04:35:36 PM

 :o Nice table and figures, unusual opponents! Thanks for sharing.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 18, 2017, 04:44:30 PM

I really like your elephant grass.  The beige stuff seems to be broom or brush bristles of some kind, but where did you source the green stuff?  Is it fake grass, or plastic aquarium grass?  The table really looks great.  :)

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Sunjester on December 18, 2017, 05:14:44 PM

A great looking game and sounds a lot of fun.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Happy Wanderer on December 19, 2017, 11:20:45 AM

@Hupp

Sorry chap - I can’t recall where the yellow grass comes from. It is from a UK mob. You can get these bristles from a broom head though and make them yourself.

Green grass - that’s Aquarium grass. I got it at my local pet store (in Aust.). Probably source that on eBay I’d say.

Hope that helps.

Happy W

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Romark on December 19, 2017, 06:38:12 PM

Lovely looking game and write up,some interesting rule tweaks too  :)

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: FierceKitty on January 24, 2018, 12:51:50 AM

"King"? He was an emperor, you anarchist!

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Plynkes on January 24, 2018, 01:18:05 PM

Well us Anglophones may have called them Emperors, but 'King of Kings' was how the Ethiopian rulers styled themselves. So still a king, and their heads come off just as easy as regular kings' do.  :)

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: FierceKitty on January 27, 2018, 12:37:33 AM

"King of Kings" sounds pretty much like a working definition of an emperor. Must admit, I've always wondered about the Japanese use of the title, since most of their history the Japanese haven't bothered foreign countries at all, let alone trying to rule them.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Viden on February 24, 2018, 08:11:28 PM

Nice AAR and wonderful miniatures! You just made me buy TMWWBK. :-*

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: Plynkes on February 24, 2018, 08:43:24 PM

Quote from: FierceKitty on January 27, 2018, 12:37:33 AM

Must admit, I've always wondered about the Japanese use of the title, since most of their history the Japanese haven't bothered foreign countries at all, let alone trying to rule them.

The Japanese don't use that title, it's simply the word the English-speaking world uses for the Japanese monarch. The Japanese word translates as something like Divine Sovereign, I believe. I suppose somebody figured "king" wasn't fancy enough for a ruler whose subjects considered him to be a divine being.

In English we use the word and concept of "Emperor" for the rulers of people who never used that term or even one that translates to our concept of what an emperor is. The Romans didn't even use it. Their word for what we call their emperors was Princeps, which means "first"; as they were trying to maintain the fiction, at least for a while, that they still lived in a republic. From there we get our word "prince." Imperator, which is where our word "emperor" comes from, simply meant "commander."

Language can be a funny business.

Title: Re: Egyptians vs Ethiopians, 1875 - (TMWWBK)
Post by: FierceKitty on March 08, 2018, 11:32:45 AM

Sorry I took a while to get to your post. Good points; thanks.