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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: AngusH on May 13, 2018, 10:42:17 AM

Title: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on May 13, 2018, 10:42:17 AM: As a huge history nerd I've always wanted to play a historical miniatures game, but I've never known anyone else who was also interested in the genre... until my buddy asked if I felt like trying SAGA. I was all in. This was just before SAGA v.2 launched and although we wanted to play with Crusader-era armies, we weren't sure how long it would be until the Crusades book launched, so I opted for Byzantines figuring they could be used with either book.

The majority of my hobby has been sci fi/post apocalyptic up until now, so it's been a bit of a challenge for me learning to paint these type of minis, but also a lot of fun - I wish 3/4 length chainmail never went out of fashion, to be honest! Hoping to archive my painting and terrain building here - thanks for following!
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on May 13, 2018, 10:51:16 AM: I've played a few games with the 4pt starter box from GB, and I don't think it's a great fit for the Last Romans' battleboard - I've grabbed some more archer units because it seems like I should be fielding at least 3 units to take advantage of some of the advanced tactics. With that in mind, I used archers as my test models for a colour scheme. My warriors will be uniformed, with HG and levies a more mish-mash of colours.

Not a huge fan of the GB minis, especially compared to some of the Footsore minis I've received over the past few weeks. Faces are a bit derpy, and had some trouble fitting weapons into the massive open hands. Also had some details lost on the leather straps on a few of the minis which I could have painted in if I wasn't so keen to get cracking on with more minis.

(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32395208_10156480843418384_3707607329743568896_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=24ad9969130d34a8aa7c763914aea779&oe=5B986D25)
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on May 13, 2018, 10:56:07 AM: Having spent a small fortune on post apocalyptic terrain, I was very keen to save some money and make my own for SAGA. I couldn't find many examples of less grandoise Byzantine buildings, so I tried to merge something ancient Greek with Arabian for this adobe farmhouse. Wish I'd left the weathering powders off altogether - a habit I've picked up from post apoc terrain, but I was pretty happy with this for a first attempt at a foam house. Sci fi mini for scale - put this together while my Byzantines were still en route:

(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29790651_10156377126828384_502249150997787842_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9663318d231f4be011dc4a1b7b9c487f&oe=5B8F27A6)
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on May 13, 2018, 11:04:01 AM: I've found terrain making has really distracted me from painting my minis, but I saw a photo of a historical cylindrical Arabian watchtower with foot holes for a ladder leading up to a door, which seemed like a great idea to me as far as making it more defensible for those inside. I tried to make a version of that with the idea that it could be a centre-of-table objective, but found this build a big pain in the butt - not enjoying working with spackle, so I think whatever I try my hand at next will have brickwork...

As a happy accident it fits 4 25mm based minis up top. About 75% through building it I realised I should have allowed for that, so that was a relief...

(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32349394_10156480843233384_8416458187149934592_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=859967e449bc886e028f3e72fa70f4ca&oe=5B99B392)

(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32247318_10156480843353384_7864087253574746112_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=af395ac1a4d6c9bbd7a79d156eb2fc66&oe=5B540628)
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: killshot on May 13, 2018, 02:20:37 PM: Nice start to the project. You could try Crusader Miniatures’ line of Byzantines since you aren’t a big fan of GB. Their Viking and Normans are great figures.
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Captain Harlock on May 13, 2018, 02:21:42 PM: Its good to see some (eastern) Romans. A fine start. I noticed that V&V miniatures started producing some excellent resin minis for infantry and Varangian Guard.
http://vminiatures.com/28-mm/byzantium/

About the buildings. It depends from the region but for the general feel, it wouldnt be far away from the traditional Greek and southern italian style. Basically a mix of Greek and Roman architecture. Here is an article (in Greek) that has some mosaices depicting houses.
http://www.diakonima.gr/2013/08/09/%CE%B7-%CF%80%CF%8C%CE%BB%CE%B7-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF-%CE%B2%CF%85%CE%B6%CE%AC%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BF-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AF%CE%B5%CF%82/ (http://www.diakonima.gr/2013/08/09/%CE%B7-%CF%80%CF%8C%CE%BB%CE%B7-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF-%CE%B2%CF%85%CE%B6%CE%AC%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BF-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AF%CE%B5%CF%82/)

You should definatelly check locations like Mystras, here is a video of the paleologian palace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KmrJsTPABM

Monemvasia
(http://manivoice.gr/sites/default/files/2_21.jpg) (https://boro.gr/contentfiles/yannis%20politistika/monemvasia.jpg)

You can also take some ideas from byzantine monasteries like those of mount Athos.
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Ogrob on May 13, 2018, 03:24:33 PM: Love the watchtower!
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Hu Rhu on May 13, 2018, 05:09:59 PM: Nice painting on those Byzantne minis. :-*
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on May 14, 2018, 10:58:39 AM: Quote from: killshot on May 13, 2018, 02:20:37 PM
Nice start to the project. You could try Crusader Miniatures’ line of Byzantines since you aren’t a big fan of GB. Their Viking and Normans are great figures.

I grabbed some Varangians and some slinger levies from Crusader and I agree - really nice minis. A touch smaller than the GB to my eye, but when based they look close enough.

Quote from: Captain Harlock on May 13, 2018, 02:21:42 PM
Its good to see some (eastern) Romans. A fine start. I noticed that V&V miniatures started producing some excellent resin minis for infantry and Varangian Guard.
http://vminiatures.com/28-mm/byzantium/

***snipped lots of great stuff on Byzantine architecture***

Oh man I wish I'd seen these V&V Varangian guard. It's been years since I've seen it, but I believe they are an exact match for one of the Angus McBride illustrations from one of the Osprey Byzantine books that got me interested in Byzantium in the first place.

Thanks also for the links to the Byzantium architecture, really interesting stuff!

Quote from: Ogrob on May 13, 2018, 03:24:33 PM
Love the watchtower!

Thanks! Not happy with how orange it is, but my airbrush died on me and I had to make do with the cheap craft paints I had on hand!

Quote from: Hu Rhu on May 13, 2018, 05:09:59 PM
Nice painting on those Byzantne minis. :-*

Thanks mate! I won't win any painting competitions but I spent more time on these guys than I normally do.
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on May 19, 2018, 11:59:21 AM: I had a game versus my buddy's Anglo-Saxons tonight and I wanted to test out the Warbanner mechanic although I only got my mini in the mail this morning... so I had to improvise a little bit. I think I captured the general Byzantine aesthetic however:

(https://image.ibb.co/b1075o/Untitled.png)

Alas, the game did not go so well. It was our first 6pt battle, and it really came down to the 4th turn where I had a horror roll on a decisive charge by my mounted hearthguard, and then also had a horror defensive roll with a key unit on my opponent's turn that really sealed the battle. I'm starting to get the hang of it though, as all my other games have been fairly one-sided losses prior to this. I think the Last Roman board is a bit underwhelming, but most of the blame lies with me I'd say. (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 19, 2018, 12:36:43 PM: Lovely looking figures and I like the terrain although i'd be tempted to lighten the tower a bit.
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Codsticker on May 20, 2018, 12:02:19 AM: Quote from: AngusH on May 19, 2018, 11:59:21 AM
I had a game versus my buddy's Anglo-Saxons tonight and I wanted to test out the Warbanner mechanic although I only got my mini in the mail this morning... so I had to improvise a little bit. I think I captured the general Byzantine aesthetic however
Excellent! I believe a I saw a flag that in Texas...
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Harry Faversham on May 20, 2018, 01:00:53 PM: Don't fire at will anymore...
aim for that bloke wiv a +1 on his flag!!!

(https://image.ibb.co/b1075o/Untitled.png)

;D
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Captain Harlock on May 21, 2018, 06:44:26 AM: V&V also makes some extremely nice cataphracts.

(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Byzantine-Cataphracts-1-VV-Miniatures.png)
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Byzantine-Cataphracts-2-VV-Miniatures.png)

I must admit Im on the fence myself, the only thing that holds me back is that I have already my hands full.
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: westwaller on May 21, 2018, 08:13:02 AM: Footsore are releasing Byzantines later this year.
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on May 21, 2018, 10:34:51 AM: Quote from: westwaller on May 21, 2018, 08:13:02 AM
Footsore are releasing Byzantines later this year.

Of course they would... :D

Those V&V cataphracts are amazing. I grabbed the Footsore Late Roman cataphracts to use for my Last Romans. Probably not perfect for Byzantines, but I just loved the minis:

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0657/9717/products/03LRM201.jpg?v=1416863968)
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AdamPHayes on May 22, 2018, 11:14:20 PM: Quote from: westwaller on May 21, 2018, 08:13:02 AM
Footsore are releasing Byzantines later this year.

I bet they’ll be nice and not requiring me to sell a kidney to afford an army....
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on May 24, 2018, 07:34:06 AM: Quote from: AdamPHayes on May 22, 2018, 11:14:20 PM
I bet they’ll be nice and not requiring me to sell a kidney to afford an army....

I think that Footsore's Byzantines will be for the period of Justinian reign. At least that is what it looks like for the photos released by Footsore, so far.

V&V and Crusader are for a later period, if I am not mistaken.

Except if you have a lot of money, I wouldn't recommend a whole army using V&V. However, they are a delight to paint, so for a single elite unit it's not that bad idea. Besides they fit perfectly with Footsore. I have four V&V Berserkers and they are a match, sizewise, with Footsore Hearthguard. I'll try to take a picture later, once I finish the bases.
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Captain Harlock on May 24, 2018, 09:47:25 AM: Well its true they are expensive, GW level expensive, but damn they are good looking... I like that they have more normal proportions like Perry miniatures, they are not sculpted in the traditional chubby/stumpy style
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on June 14, 2018, 08:58:49 AM: I finally managed to finish a single point of my SAGA Byzantines however, plus a warbanner to help keep the lads rested while they cower in forests and ineffectively pepper my opponents with arrows.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/h5wmtldp5am7emg/2018-06-14%2017.21.18.jpg?raw=1)

It was my First time using a LBMS banner transfer and I found it fiddly. Instructions weren't a lot of help, but they did make good backing paper for the actual transfer! I managed to trim and cover up some of the mistakes with paint and I think I salvaged it. I'm used to playing 6-8 figure skirmish games where I can take a whole week to paint one mini and feel like I've made good progress, so I'm still trying to find the right balance to be able to tackle a SAGA-sized force. I cut some corners with the warbanner guy and it took half as long as the others, and (IMO at least) ended up looking better, using what I call the "GW method" of basecoat+wash+edge highlight for everything but the red and the skin, and also barely diluted my paint.

Looking forward to tackling some Flemish mercs next - using the new armoured Normans from Footsore, which are about 80% chainmail... woo hoo!
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: Koyote on June 14, 2018, 03:41:46 PM: Very nice. You've struck a great balance between bright and muted colors.

I'm looking forward to seeing this warband progress.

(http://z6.ifrm.com/8152/110/0/e14144//e14144.gif)
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: FierceKitty on June 15, 2018, 01:51:55 AM: My 10mm Byzantines took a Crusader army to the cleaners last Sunday; very satisfying force. And the crusader and Turkish enemies can also wear mail, so lots more fun painting 'em.
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: armchairgeneral on June 19, 2018, 02:46:12 PM: Nice painting.

I have quite a few Byzantines and I felt the GB figures were much nicer than the Crusader ones, and I am a big fan of Crusader figures normally.

Aventine have said they are doing Byzantines but no sign as yet and they announced this a couple of years ago.

Nobiscum Deus!
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: AngusH on June 20, 2018, 09:02:01 AM: Quote from: armchairgeneral on June 19, 2018, 02:46:12 PM
I have quite a few Byzantines and I felt the GB figures were much nicer than the Crusader ones, and I am a big fan of Crusader figures normally.

Yeah I agree re: the Crusader minis, especially the skutatoi. I like that they are bearded, but otherwise I think the GB are superior. Happy with the slingers though, and the javelin/archer/crossbow psiloi are likely buys when I start work on my Crusaders-era SAGA list.

Flicking through some Osprey books last week at my local book store, I think I appreciate the GB minis a little more in general - especially the faces. Seems like a conscious effort on the sculptors part to match images like this:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Skylitzis_Chronicle_VARANGIAN_GUARD.jpg/1200px-Skylitzis_Chronicle_VARANGIAN_GUARD.jpg)
Title: Re: SAGA - Byzantines
Post by: armchairgeneral on June 20, 2018, 10:18:34 PM: Yes I felt the GB range is well researched.

For further reading I would very much recommend the John Julius Norwich trilogy of books on the history of the Byzantine Empire.