Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: painterman on May 30, 2018, 02:22:34 PM
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Beggora!
A minor diversion, with aim of getting a Lion Rampant Irish force together this year, to harry some Tudor invaders.
First 20 done; decided to mix up the cloths from the usual saffron.
Little command vignette to come.
Simon.
(https://i.imgur.com/Fx6RzCg.jpg)
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Very nice Simon :)
First time I’ve seen those figures I think. Odd clothing to be sure ;)
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They look great! :-*
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Lovely stuff Simon, though could we have some more photos please (and close ups lol) if you're not to busy lol
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Geoff - will do. But they were "swift paints" - plenty needed for LR force.
All the best, Simon.
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By popular demand (c/o Jeff)...closer inspection photos!
Cheers, Simon.
(https://i.imgur.com/draH8Fi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1X54zu6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gaMUcdW.jpg)
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Fantastic painting! :-*
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Wow!
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Outstanding! :o
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Lovely; good to see some paint on these. Looking forward to the others!
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That is some fantastic painting. So much for a rushed job. :D :D
I think I will be adding those Perry figures to my WotR collection for Mortimers's Cross.
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Fantastic!
I'm thinking I'll have to get them sometime to add to my 15th century project, though I don't quite have a reason for them to be running around medieval Germany...
I see there's a few duplicates in there - but only because I was looking for them. They aren't really noticeable at all. Which is cool. Did you do any conversions?
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Hi Charlie
Hmm, Irish in Germany....but you should just do some and create a narrative to use them.
No conversions, just different paint scheme. I have some small shields and LBMS transfers on order, to add a few and try to disguise repeated poses.
Simon.
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great painting on them :)
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Hmm, Irish in Germany....but you should just do some and create a narrative to use them.
I'll probably do that, they can be hanger-ons for my English mercenaries! But they are a long way down the line on my list of priorities.
I have some small shields and LBMS transfers on order.
Where are you getting the shields from?
I imagine the targes in the Perry mercenaries box would be suitable, though they won't work for transfers I suppose.
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Really nice work! They work for about 400 years too I think.
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Excellent Simon :-*
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Charlie,
Have ordered small round PIct shields from Gripping Beast and some transfers, a few of them look useful and may only need less than 10?
We'll see.
Simon
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superb painting job!
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(https://i.imgur.com/Fx6RzCg.jpg)
A painting :-*
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If this is your fast paint rushed job what are your minis like if you take your time!! Fantastic stuff do you have some Gallowglasses to go with them? :)
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Thank you for the extra photos Simon, the figures are lovely and I bet the Perry sales have gone through the roof after people have seen these :-*
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Command vignette - flag to be added when I have one.
Simon.
(https://i.imgur.com/O5LjKmf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/38bwRsO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YFGFnwr.jpg)
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Lovely work :)
What sort of flag would it be, a Celtic looking one?
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Just beautiful, the flag will finish it off nicely :-*
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Really nice!
Simon I really like your fleshtones they are very effective. Could you share your color combo?
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Flag will be an LBMS one from a dark ages sheet (hopefully will look OK).
Flesh is Foundry Paints triad, with a wash of Army Painter Soft Tone wash applied after the shade is on.
Many thanks for the kind comments, Simon.
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Added some LBMS decals, which really do enhance figures.
Flag attached to the command base and few more figures with shields - using LBMS Dark Age patterns which maybe anachronistic for late medieval period, but I like 'em.
(https://i.imgur.com/rNlsQc6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WINH18W.jpg)
Cheers, Simon.
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Flag looks good to me :)
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They look just wonderful Simon! 8)
Christopher
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These are awesome! :o Congrats!!
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I always look forward to your posts Simon, as I know full well it will be wonderful eye candy.
As always excellent paintwork and modelling!
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That flag just makes the command group pop. Wonderful stuff. :-* :-*
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Last planned update (for now).
Three Perry Gallowglass - brought into the early 16th century by converting heads to burgonets (from Steel Fist Miniatures Landsknechts) - happy with 'em. May do a couple more headswops on next batch.
Now hoping Michael sculpts the Irish cavalry!
Cheers, Simon.
(https://i.imgur.com/jKQVQR5.jpg)
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Nice ,simple,effective conversions,they look great :)
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Very nice!
So what project are these for? I notice they are on round bases like the Steel Fist ones you've painted up - I've assumed they were just for display purposes on the website. But as these are based the same, and with burgonets are obviously supposed to be from the same era... are you working towards some sort of skirmish project?
(And when are we next going to see some updates on your Swiss project? :) )
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Charlie
Yes, kinda volunteered to do a Tudor Irish Lion Rampant force, for game with Stuart M's Tudor English, probably for Q4 this year. So its doable and I've made a healthy start. Hence 1p coins on clear plastic bases I'm thinking.
Swiss keep looking at me and are being very patient chaps - but think that Steel Fist stuff for website display etc must be next.....
All the best
Simon.
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...and spookily..new Irish packs have appeared on the Perrys website.
WR 44 Irish kern with axes
WR 45 Irish hangunners
...looks like those Tudor invaders will be pushed out of the Pale after all...!!
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These all look terrific. Nice work on the conversions - it's always cool to see some customized figures.
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Highly effective conversions and beautiful painting.
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Now hoping Michael sculpts the Irish cavalry!
I remember him mentioning somewhere on the Perry FaceBook page that he'd get around to doing the Irish cavalry eventually.
Pics of the latest releases in the meantime :
(http://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/IMG_2166.JPG)
(http://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/IMG_2167.JPG)
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Hi Humakt
Michael Perry has said he'll be doing Irish Cavalry, so you may want to see if they look suitable for 14th century?
Not many contemporary images I don't believe. I would expect mounted Irish to be those who are socially superior, so I think I'm expecting mail coats, rather than cloak-wearing kern types. The later Derrick images (c1580s) have them in mail or padded armour, so you could transfer that armour backwards in time.
Cheers, Simon.
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The impression I get from the few descriptions, plus bias from recalling the old WRG books, is that mounted lords, warriors, and their attendant 'horseboys' will pretty much match their respective dismounted counterparts; a 'nagge' or 'hobby' were relatively cheap and decent mounts for your hangers-on.
Great figures, although I think another pack of javelin kern are needed.
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Excellent conversions!
I would love to see you paint the new released Kerns ;)
Could they pass as 16th century scots? (I need some low level scots mercenaries for the invasion of Sweden 1519...)
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My instincts tell me that mounted gallowglass/nobles probably aren't needed so much...
I agree with this assessment and the other reasoning in your post. That said what tactics and troop types your neighbours use will invariably appear in your own forces over time, especially if they prove effective; e.g. the appearance of the Hobilar in English armies from the start of the 14th Century. Likewise any counterfeit men at arms, for example, only need to be compared with what the neighbours have, not the standard Europe-wide.
I would expect that within your mounted nobles and 'gentry', there would be a number capable of fighting in the 'English manner' (which would be mounted with spear to them), the numbers declining the further you were from the Pale. Otherwise for the majority, as you say, horses were for transport or skirmishers.
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Lovely job on those!
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The helmet worn by the Irish kern in pack WR 44 is straight out of Albrecht Durer's print of Irish troops (gallowglass and kerns); the full bascinet style worn by the other helmeted figure was still being used in Ireland after 1500 (one of those was found at the site of the battle of Knockdoe, 1510, and is believed to be from that battle). Totally suitable for early Tudor period:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f0/2f/03/f02f0324b4b35b4e359864deaa821258.jpg
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Looking at these illustrations;
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fETrxr8pZBE/Wm-BPUiQl4I/AAAAAAAADDs/HwfD-Q2w22YIJk7YsHH6Kmw1rgiMMYo8wCEwYBhgL/s1600/Harley_1319_f9_MacMorogh_the_Irish_chieftain-detail%2B1399.jpg)
C. 1399
(http://www.geocities.ws/na_degadmedieval_ireland/Hobilar01.jpg)
Apparently 16th Century
... not much seems to have changed over two centuries. I do note the overhand grip on the spear, as opposed to a couched lance.
The following is also the Irish slant on a 16th Century knight
(http://irisharchaeology.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/16th-century-irish-knight.jpg)
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Looks like the bottom one has painterman's dog right!
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That's what's so great about figures of Kern and Gallowglass. Most can be used 1320 to 1550 or so.
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I do have a nagging doubt that some illustrators might have very much done what some of us do and apply an impression of something they've never seen, based on a picture they've seen somewhere.
So say I'm sat there in 1500, wondering how to paint an Irishman and I turn to a 200 year old illustration for inspiration and essentially copy it. Joe Wargamer sees it half a millennia later and takes it as read that nothing changed in Ireland for a couple of hundred years.
When you look at illustrations from the 1580s though it's all changed and Irish nobles are dedicated followers of fashion. The Kerns of course look little different however.
Illustrations are all we have of course and legislation such as 'all men in the Pale are to dress in English clothes' and things like that. I'll be an avid follower of the herd and gush over the Perry's stuff, but deep down rational me is sniffing an age old con.
;)
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To further complicate the discussion, below is an excerpt from an article on the website for the magazine, History Ireland, issue Jan/Feb 2006, re the Chester Beatty exhibition of Durer's work:
Irish history buffs will most likely make a beeline for the watercolour of ‘Irish Soldiers and Peasants’ lent by the Kuperferstichkabinett Staatliche Museen, Berlin, on show in Ireland for the first time. This image is dated 1521 and is therefore thought to have been executed in Antwerp, which Dürer visited that year. It is the earliest representation of Irish dress and as such is frequently used in books as a depiction of Irish soldiers.
However, there is now a question mark over the latter claim. Jean Michel Massing raised the matter in the Irish Arts Review in 1994. Antwerp was a great entrepôt trading city and it would certainly have been the place, if anywhere, to have encountered such outlandish people as the Irish and others whom Dürer placed in his album of peoples in costume. The problem is that the blokes with moustaches have only two authentic Irish items—a ring-hilted great sword favoured by Irish gallowglasses held by the second from the left, and the Irish mantle worn by the third from the left. Such swords were actually made in Germany for export, whilst Irish mantles—a sort of poor man’s fur coat, known for its warmth—were imported onto the Continent. So it is quite possible that these items were available in Antwerp—indeed, the city was known for its processions of citizens dressed up as foreigners at festival time!
The clincher would seem to be the legend on the watercolour. It does not actually say that these are Irish soldiers and peasants. It states more enigmatically: ‘Thus go the soldiers of Ireland beyond England/Thus go the poor of Ireland’. Furthermore, as Massing also reminded us, it was Dürer who used a blond German youth dressed in feathers to represent an Amerindian in a Book of Hours for the emperor!
Finally, it ought to be noted that this image of Irish soldiers was not put into print circulation by Dürer contemporaneously and hence it never affected the developing Renaissance image of the Irish. It only came into general circulation when scholarly interest in Dürer developed in the late nineteenth century and his albums of drawings were finally published.
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This fits all so perfectly together, painting, base and multibase composition!
Just brill!
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Excellent stuff, I will also be using these figures (mixed with some Claymore Islemen) as Irish to fight my Tudor English, thinking Pikemans Lament which is the later version of Lion Rampant.
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Not a period I know much about, but those are some lovely minis from the Perry brothers.
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‘Thus go the soldiers of Ireland beyond England/Thus go the poor of Ireland’.
... which will pretty much be my mindset when I eventually get round to getting them. They fulfil my expectation of what Irish troops should look like in the Late 15th Century at least.
:)
Not a period I know much about, but those are some lovely minis from the Perry brothers.
Certainly are. I'd like to see their take on Welsh, or even Lowland Scots troops too. They wouldn't perhaps look that different from the English at such a late date, but there would be differences all the same.
Just don't ask me what they would be. :?
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Excellent stuff, I will also be using these figures (mixed with some Claymore Islemen) as Irish to fight my Tudor English, thinking Pikemans Lament which is the later version of Lion Rampant.
I have done the same thing. The Claymore range is a touch smaller and more slight than the Perry Irish but not completely incompatible.
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Just in relation to the earlier discussion on cavalry these pictures in mail show what Osprey refers to as Anglo Irish lords. The Gaelic Irish are dressed in segmented leather helmets and either padded Aketons or mail, bare legged or trews. They use the spear overarm as they dont have stirrups or a proper saddle. For the most part I see Irish horse as light horse skirmishing with javelins. The only company I know that do them are Redoubt Enterprises who have about 4 figures, they are not the best but are OK.
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Hoping these images help.
First is a Tudor woodcut showing Irish light horse being charged by English border horse. Bare legs, segmented armour and helmets, no stirrups or proper saddle, spear overarm.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1786/41112510480_fef6bac960_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25CYn2A)IMG_20180620_172543 (https://flic.kr/p/25CYn2A) by Roger Castle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152172226@N06/), on Flickr
Ths osprey shows an Irish lord in the same gear.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1781/42922733721_ba916f8877_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28oWek8)IMG_20180620_172402 (https://flic.kr/p/28oWek8) by Roger Castle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152172226@N06/), on Flickr
The osprey again with the armoured men at arms being Anglo Irish and the irish horse being segmented helmet and chain mail, no stirrups again.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1781/42922733721_ba916f8877_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28oWek8)IMG_20180620_172402 (https://flic.kr/p/28oWek8) by Roger Castle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152172226@N06/), on Flickr
Lastl jerry embleton warrior series very similar to above, bare legged no stirrups but the segmented helmet is steel, not sure I buy that personally but hopefully some of that helps.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1807/42204183844_dc5b5cfa4d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27irtu9)IMG_20180620_172336 (https://flic.kr/p/27irtu9) by Roger Castle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152172226@N06/), on Flickr
You would almost want dark age scots or irish horse with later medieval head swaps?
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Apologies missed off the lord hes the guy on right in segmented padded armour.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/896/41112526240_83280294a0_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25CYrHj)IMG_20180620_172416 (https://flic.kr/p/25CYrHj) by Roger Castle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152172226@N06/), on Flickr
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I have some unpainted ones I can photograph when I get back home tonight. See if that helps.
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Lots of enlightening images of Irish being added here - so thought I should pop few 28mm Gallowglass on (more Perrys).
Thanks for all the kind comments.
Simon.
(https://i.imgur.com/98rTpo1.jpg)
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Very nice work as usual Simon! I really need to get myself in gear and get mine painted up. The only problem with trying to game Stoke Field is that I need to paint so many kerns!
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Gorgious figures painterman, love it.
Heres a picture of the four Redoubt Cavalry and the 2 horses, not ideal but gives you an idea.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1783/42942048891_09a6944580_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/28qDe4i)IMG_20180621_200545 (https://flic.kr/p/28qDe4i) by Roger Castle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152172226@N06/), on Flickr
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Nice additions to your force Simon,Stuart should be getting worried lol.
Cheers
Keith
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Hi Keith
Maybe he should - but there's always the curse of the newly painting figures' first outing!
Cheers, Simon.
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lol
You're right of course Simon :)
Be sure to post pictures :)
Cheers
Keith
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Just caught up with this thread...
It seems that I missed a lot of excellent paintjobs... and historically documented as well!
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I cant help thinking that the Crusader Scots cavalry both the thanes and the warriors would be a good fit, all bare legged the thanes in mail shirts, just need head swaps on the thans for bare heads or more modern helmets.
https://www.crusaderminiatures.com/images/img678.jpg
Think this is what I will do for my Tudor Ireland project.