Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Quendil on June 06, 2018, 01:22:37 PM
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After collecting and painting WW2 for many years now and I nearly at a point where I have enough painted miniatures and scenery to play a game but the question is what rules do I use.
Scale wise I use 28mm
Size wise, anything from squad up
Theatre wise - Burma, Pacific, Early War, Desert , Market Garden and probably later war D Day and Beyond
I wargame with my family (Wife and Kids) so the rules need to be fairly easy, fast and fun. I am not bothered about historical accuracy as that may rob me of the chance to bore them all with history after the game.
The games I have been looking at
Bolt Action (I have the 1st edition)
Rules of Engagement
Cross Of Iron
Chain of command
I ain't been shot mum
After rules that are printed and available in the uk
Anybody have any suggestions
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my usual two pennies...
Chain of Command is the first choice, Rules of engagement the second (I prefer CoC for the patrol phase and command, ROE for the AT fire). Probably if wife and kids are involved COC is a good starting point because it is easy, the role of leaders/character is important, and what is happening on the table makes sense (you can understand what you are doing). On top of it the end results are accurate, added bonus. RoE is also good, but is more procedural.
No comment on Bolt Action, I hate it and cannot stand Cavatore too!
IASBM is good, but in 28mm will require a large large table, it is a company level game. Okay if you have the space... Cross of Iron is also aimed at company actions.
Not difficult for me, and with some good ideas: disposable Heroes, now in its 2nd edition.
Disclaimer: I never understood why accuracy must be antithetic to fun and simplicity.
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"No comment on Bolt Action, I hate it and cannot stand Cavatore too!"
That sounds like a comment to me.
I assume "Cross of Iron" is actually Iron Cross by Great Escape Games.
Another platoon-level game to consider is Combat Patrol by Buck Surdu, available from Sally 4th in the UK. There is a play-through video on their website:
http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Categories/Combat_Patrol
A basic version of the rules can be downloaded free, along with organisation charts & game templates.
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Five Men In Normandy is a quick, fun squad vs. squad game, playable in as small an area as 2'x2' if you like. It can be found for free as part of the FiveCore Retro Collection: http://www.wargamevault.com/product/191836/FiveCore-Retro-Collection?manufacturers_id=5701 If you like it, there are more revised versions available.
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The main wrinkle with Chain of Command is the whole Team, Squad, Junior Leader triumvirate. If they can grok that then the rest is pretty straight forward.
You can get the rules in pdf for a few quid so it certainly can't hurt to give them a peruse.
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Despite the press Bolt Action is fine.
Its lightweight and has a few issues but its got a strong following. Tactics are minimal and simply charge across the open field can work so you don't need to think that hard.
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Thanks for the thoughts. I shall probably give Bolt Action a go first as I have the Rulebook (Version 1). I am probably more drawn to that due to their coverage of all the theatres I am interested in and the fact the books are printed as I hate pdfs.
If thats a no go I will try CoC or Rules of Engagement.
Cheers :D
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+1 for Chain of Command, however if you want a quick fun game in WW2, I recommend 'What a Tanker'
It is only tank V tank, but it is fun and quick. You can always add your own rules for Infantry, anti-tank etc.
once you have mastered the tank V tank.
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"No comment on Bolt Action, I hate it and cannot stand Cavatore too!"
That sounds like a comment to me.
I assume "Cross of Iron" is actually Iron Cross by Great Escape Games.
Another platoon-level game to consider is Combat Patrol by Buck Surdu, available from Sally 4th in the UK. There is a play-through video on their website:
http://wargamesbuildings.co.uk/epages/950003459.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950003459/Categories/Combat_Patrol
A basic version of the rules can be downloaded free, along with organisation charts & game templates.
It is not a comment on the rules... only on one of the designers ;D ... By the way, CoC is in print, and you can get the supplements covering the theaters you want for free. Okay they are downloads, but they aren't big to print.
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I would second What a Tanker by Too Fat Lardies, quick, easy to grasp, not scale specific, general good fun.
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If the kids are joining the games with you and you want easier rules you should pick Bolt Action.Iam sure they will like it. Especially picking dice from a bag.
CoC is inovative and probably the better game....but... I never played a Lardie game that was fast and easy :)
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It is not a comment on the rules... only on one of the designers ;
Nice try, but I believe any reasonable judge or jury would deem "I hate it" a comment, though its fairness may be subject to debate. (Personally, having not played it, I have no opinion, which certainly cannot be construed as a comment.)
Without wishing to distract from or hijack the original discussion, I am intrigued by the two mentioned rule sets by Great Escape Games (regardless of whether Iron Cross is indeed one of the sets referred to.)
Can anyone briefly outline the differences? From vague memory of earlier comments, I had the impression Rules of Engagement might crudely be summarised as '40K in WWII', which immediately put me off. (That's not a comment on it, BTW). The more recent Iron Cross has tempted me rather more, but I confess to knowing little about either, and would appreciate some comparative comments.
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I have Rules of Engagement and Warhammer Kampfgruppe.
I have read the first but the unit size meant that the heat death of the universe was more likely than my completing a force.
Beyond that I have no comment.
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I haven't heard of....oh, I detect humour. I take it, then, that Rules of Engagement is either a) very like 40K, or b) nothing like 40K. Much pondering required.
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Rules of Engagement:
I cannot understand why people says it took too much time to complete a force. It is a platoon level game. you usually have a reduced platoon as starting point and you can add elements, more or less like Disposable Heroes. It has a good coverage of vehicles, and I like the AT system (direct penetration rather than the annoying BoD system other rules use... yes this is the only thing I dislike in Rich games...). It is WH40k-esque in the sense that troops have stats! And you usually need too equal the stat to succeed in your activity. Firing is based on the overly classic roll to hit-possible save-effect. Yes it looks like 40k, but it is a quite basic mechanic... there is suppression, opportunity fire, and morale effect. There is no special activation mechanic it is a Igo-Ugo system. Considering the forces are quite small it is not a big problem. There is an order system, you have to assign orders to saudas before starting to move and to fire. Ranges are 'traditional' so a bit compressed, but not at BA level. Dr. Sigmoid Curve (quoting Rich!) is not really a big annoyance here.
By the way I remember talking with Stuart back in time and he said it was perfectly possible to play with squads rather than a full platoon, and also the rules states this.
It is a straight forward game, rewarding good tactics and without too many characters, weird weapons, on table 155mm guns and so on. I think it is very easy to pick up, and a solid game.
I do not own or have played Iron Cross, but there are plenty of available materials, including a full example of play on the website.
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Thank you for that. I'll hold fire on both for the moment, particularly as I now have What a Tanker! to keep me occupied, at least until I've painted some infantry.
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Honestly I'd say go with Bolt Action, It's easy and rather fast paced.
A major boon is that it's also not very restrictive on what you have to take allowing you more flexibility on what you field which allows you to adjust just how historically accurate you want your gaming to be.
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This question comes up periodically, the last time a few months ago... :)
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102745.0
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If you want super easy how about something like Airfix battles?
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Thanks all I think the questions have been answered now
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This question comes up periodically, the last time a few months ago... :)
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102745.0
Is it worth having a sticky about the rules (difficult to manage I know)?
What about a moderator only sticky with links to the threads?
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I would think so. Otherwise we end up having the same conversation every few months :)
Chris is the board mod though, so it’s his call.
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For quick and easy, we prefer Iron Cross by Great Escape games (not to be confused with Cross of Iron)
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No love for Crossfire? everyone should be made to play it at least once just to see how gaming could evolve ;-)
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I've gone with Bolt Action, partly because my 10 yr old has been playing it at shows for 2 years now and he loves it and picked it up straight away. One of my friends plays it and he thinks its great fun, and fun is the main criteria for our games so who's to argue?
I've got copies of CoC and Iron Cross but you never seem to see these played in participation games at shows so never get the chance to get a feel of how they play. I've seen them used in demo games a plenty, but BA is very popular so it must be doing something right. It has been the Perry twins rules of choice in all their WW2 demo games at Partizan so that was good enough for me! :D
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Thanks all I think the questions have been answered now
As you have seen, these things take on a life of their own, as much for the responders' benefit as that of the original poster. As usual, I've not only contributed, albeit modestly, but also learnt something.
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I've got copies of CoC and Iron Cross but you never seem to see these played in participation games at shows so never get the chance to get a feel of how they play. I've seen them used in demo games a plenty, but BA is very popular so it must be doing something right. It has been the Perry twins rules of choice in all their WW2 demo games at Partizan so that was good enough for me! :D
Iron Cross I have never seen it, but I admit I missed everything from last Colours and this one is new...
Chain? I have seen plenty of participation games at show and take part in several of them. I would not put too much credit on the rules of choice at Partizan of a specific manufacturer. They have always put up demo games with Warlord Rules (Black Powder, Hail Caesar, and so on...). It could be a coincidence or simply the fact that they want to support Rick and Warlord. Especially considering that they play CoC by themselves and they were impressed when Rich went to Nottingham to demo the game in their game room...
On the other hand...
I've gone with Bolt Action, partly because my 10 yr old has been playing it at shows for 2 years now and he loves it and picked it up straight away.
This is a much more valid statement lol
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I would think so. Otherwise we end up having the same conversation every few months :)
Chris is the board mod though, so it’s his call.
Not quite 'the same conversation', as the criteria stated by the posters are often different (not that this prevents people from overlooking these and simply plugging their personal favourites, but that' another matter.) Furthermore, there are always going to be new rules, not to mention changes of opinion as people get more experience with a particular set or try something different. As I said in another post, I've learnt something from this, and have read a lot of similar threads. I still don't know what I like, though....
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Not quite 'the same conversation', as the criteria stated by the posters are often different (not that this prevents people from overlooking these and simply plugging their personal favourites, but that' another matter.) Furthermore, there are always going to be new rules, not to mention changes of opinion as people get more experience with a particular set or try something different. As I said in another post, I've learnt something from this, and have read a lot of similar threads. I still don't know what I like, though....
I think what he meant, and I definitely meant was that if we had a sticky with the links to existing threads that would be informative. That is not to say that different questions are not important, but a record of previous questions might answer some of them. It might also identify any "one game to rule them all" postings ^__^.
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That’s what I meant. You may well learn something new from it every time the same question comes up. But you also get a lot of repetition. If there was one thread that already held people’s views, they wouldn’t feel the need to repeat it all again in threads asking the same (or minor variations on the same) question.
It’s why stickies exist (well, in part anyway).
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Especially considering that they play CoC by themselves and they were impressed when Rich went to Nottingham to demo the game in their game room...
I, and possibly many others, didn't know that, but somehow I can't see Richard coming to demo the game personally in my games shed unfortunately. lol
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Well,
I had to cross the continent, the Channel, and live in UK to get the opportunity to play with Rich! ;D You are not alone...
But game was described in Lard Island News and I think also in WSS (not sure of the latter). Wandering away in musing... with all the information we have available on the hobby right now through the internet, I sometime wonder if it is a good development or not. I am not talking about the mass of noise around, but the fact that we are literally bombarded by useful information about our hobby in the form of reviews, reports, discussions, but it is so much we cannot really digest it...
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No love for Crossfire? everyone should be made to play it at least once just to see how gaming could evolve ;-)
I didn’t bring it up myself as the OP sounded like he wanted tanks. :)
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This question comes up periodically, the last time a few months ago... :)
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102745.0
Not sure that’s a good representative thread. There are so many different approaches to WWII games such as tank heavy, infantry heavy, what a stand or vehicle represents and so on.
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I wouldn't mind finding a nice set of rules to make use of some 15mm Axis and Allies miniatures that I have. The only issue is that Axis infantry is usually represented by one mini per squad rather than individual soldiers. Can anyone recommend something that could make use of the models I have? I love playing miniatures games. I just hate assembling and painting miniatures. LOL