Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: OSHIROmodels on June 26, 2018, 06:06:37 AM
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As the questions states, I'm interested in which is the most popular scale for VSF mass battles i.e. games that include lots of flyers, tanks, figures (larger units, battalions etc as opposed to skirmish scale) etc.
cheers
James
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I am a 28mm guy nowadays
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Have always been too heavily invested in 28mms to do anything else... coupled with a fairly ready availability of table-tennis tables to play on it's not been an issue. 15mm would be the saner choice though!
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I wonder how much luck you'd have sourcing miniatures in anything other than 28mm. There are a few 15mm ranges floating about and of course plentiful historicals you could nick from for bog standard infantry. One or two odd companies do the smaller scales, but I think a lot of the noticeably steampunky stuff would have to DIY sourced and made.
I'd suggest choose the scale you like the look of the most and expect to have to create forces for both sides. It used to be that Dystopian wars did it in something like 1/1200 or there abouts (check me there) and also had their own line "35mm" figures (whose bright idea it was to create a scale unusable for anything else is beyond me). There's a reason the company behind it went belly up a while ago.
Between the loss of All Quiet on the Martian Front and the above mentioned Dystopian series, Steampunk mass battles have taken a beating on all sides. I'm happy with IHMN myself. :)
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It's for production not a project :)
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If you want "mass battle" with battalions of troops, flyers and large war machines 1/48-1/54 is ridiculous unless you are going to play at the local parking lot or gymnasium floor.
Even with 1/100 (my favourite 15mm figures) you end up with a lot of abstraction and huge mismatch between figure and groundscale to get mass battle onto a gaming table.
For something encompassing to gamers with normal sized tables I would say 1/200 at the largest, but 1/300 would be better. Then you can get a decent relationship between figure and groundscale which, while not accurate, at least looks appropriate with much less abstraction on what each figure casting or piece of scenery represents. Ideally something along the lines of "Spearhead" and its Modern and Great War versions. Large, all arms mechanised battles with plenty of figures and vehicles on scenic tables.
You did not specify 1/900 as an option but that would give you greater mass battle effect and better groundscale but at the expense of the identifiable "toy soldier" appeal of the larger scales.
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Common sense would say 15mm but what has common sense got to do with anything? 28mm for me!!!
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Well I’d have to say for me 28mm because for VSF you want to see the uniforms, the gadgets, the steam vehicles, the Martian Tripods and the flyers in all their detailed glory...
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I would be leaning to 6mm or 10mm.
To me the two factors to balance are how small can the infantry be and still be easy enough to paint. If you want more detail in the infantry then 10mm is preferable, if a basic 1 colour paint job works then 6mm is great. But I would have thought for VSF uniforms with different coloured trousers and jackets then 10mm is better.
For vehicles / walkers / flyers its the opposite, how big is the biggest you want, and what size of model does that create in the two scales. For both Epic and Warmaster one of the great things is having the small troops, the medium vehicles and the huge monsters / titans. So you get the range in scale, without the largest ones being too big to fit on the table (or too expensive to buy). And of course if its mass battle you want lots of vehicles and a fair few of the largest walkers / monsters / whatevers.
28mm seems very popular on the poll - but I can't see this as a mass battle scale for this 'period'.
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Interesting some people are ruling out 28mm (1/56 if you want a scale) for VSF big battles, just looking at the other areas of the LAF there’s 28mm Napoleonic, ACW, Anciet etc figures in big battles... but it’s a no no for VSF? 20-24 figs for a battalion, a steam tank or flyer represent several machines, a gun a battery and you can have a big battle on a 6’ x 4’ table in no time :)
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Common sense would say 15mm but what has common sense got to do with anything? 28mm for me!!!
Seconded!
28s all the way and we play on a largish table 6 x 8 or larger if we can. ;) lol
Anyone who says its not possible look at Captain Darlings examples of Napoleonic, ACW massed battles etc and to call it ridiculous is a little harsh. There have been some truly impressive large games posted on the LAF over the years all using 28s.
Personally I don't think the very small scales 6mm etc do justice to the wonders of seeing VSF machines and steam tech.
But its all a matter of personal taste... :)
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Generally play 28mm, have more than a few, and will probably continue for 'small'ish mass battles, but am investing pretty heavily in 15mm.
Can't answer as 1) in transition, 2) want the the best of all worlds, c) I'm supposed to be consistent?
Doug
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Well I’d have to say for me 28mm because for VSF you want to see the uniforms, the gadgets, the steam vehicles, the Martian Tripods and the flyers in all their detailed glory...
Agreed, 28mm for me too.
I could be tempted into 10mm for this type of game too - 10mm works very well of big, massed battles IMO, enough size for details an differentiation, but small enough to get lots of toys on the table.
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28mm for me, would like to see some massive 28mm VSF games featuring all sorts of glorious regiments and vehicles. Should be possible, looking at other large scifi, fantasy and historical games which are also played in 28mm.
Think the pricing would matter a lot as niche genres are often priced at a premium hence the smaller sized games always displayed. Should the pricing be right in my opinion (comparable with historical ranges let's say in the £1.50-£2.00 price range per mini), I might be interested in grabbing some cool miniatures/ units for the collection.
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I'd just like to clarify I have no issue with smaller figures I have large 6mm Napoleonics, ACW, FPW and WW 2 forces and some 10mm figures. I actually think these smaller figures give much more realistic looking battles on my table top for these eras...but that's the opposite of what I want from my VSF games! :D
This weekend I'm running a big FUBAR VSF full day game the biggest I've ever put on.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-za7RebFqZv8/WW_bu1jmhbI/AAAAAAAAAdA/UHuQvXYcXwAnZZCSitnUdj7K-Gr_Yw2sQCLcBGAs/s320/4%2BLittle%2BTinkle%2BCo%2BSlaughtered%2B600_zpsbtykm74n.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CAl6A8o2ows/WW6eHa0hd_I/AAAAAAAAAYM/6gBU4UmHwPIgv10mYvL7CQRwTwvuRLSqQCLcBGAs/s320/image_zpskedz4oxl.jpeg)
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A big game is not the same thing as a mass battle.
Infantry/Cavalry centric eras like Ancients, Age of Reason, Napoleonics are able to condense groundscale and give a reasonable appearance at a common wargames scale of 1" to 150 or 200yds as ranks and files of troops arranged in formations.
Mechanised warfare with vehicles doesn't work that way. In the same groundscale one tank model in 28mm covers an area of about 1/3 by 1/2 a mile. I have seen rules where an infantryman's normal move on the table is not long enough per turn to march from the rear of the tank to past the end of its gun barrel.
28mm mass battle (lots of flyers, tanks, figures.....as per the OP request) on a table looks like this:
(http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/apoc-002.jpg)
I stand by my comment that it is ridiculous.
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28mm just a about once a month.
http://baronvonj.blogspot.com/search/label/VSF
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I stand by my comment that it is ridiculous.
Good for you. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree :)
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28mm just a about once a month.
http://baronvonj.blogspot.com/search/label/VSF
Looking great and plenty of space left for movement and tactics!
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My "other" is 2mm for Land Ironclads/Aeronef, though I also have 28mm but I'm using those for a different scale of game.
Chris
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28mm so I can repurpose my colonials.
But if I were going to do something Barsoomian I'd look seriously at 15mm. Easier to make those flying ships and have hordes of tharks on their giant beasties.
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It simply depends on what you intend to do with your Mythos.
You already know what's physically viable for your production set up.
28mm will have the greatest cross over appeal and secondary sales outside your companies mythos.
As you know I've both commercial VSF(mainly in production with US companies)and private commissions. All 28mm ,and its a genre that keeps ticking over on my books year after year.
So I'd say go 28mm if its a limited number of large vehicles. The more vehicle orientated the smaller the scale.
A note of caution smaller scale sci-fi tends to stall and fade. 28mm does have a greater longevity.
Mark.
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I stand by my comment that it is ridiculous.
Like Malamute we'll agree to disagree.
Baron Von J I must visit your Blog, averaging a VSF game roughly once a month is a top show! Wish I could manage that!
The Tin Shed Gamer makes interesting points from his experience as is Jamesmanto's point of repurposing figures/buildings. Make stuff that 'can cross boundaries' have a factory then include a VSF tower on it that can be swapped out for a regular situation :).
Cheers
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I definitely repurpose Colonial/Victorian troops. I find 28mm is great for doing kit bashing/modifying troops and vehicles.
I have a 8x6 table with usually 6-8 players a game running 2-3 infantry units and a contraption. Plenty of room to maneuver.
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Both. As crap as that sounds, there's room for both in my life.
15mm came about as I went through a period of restricted living space and a budget. It was a faff getting the armies together as dedicated 15mm VSF ranges were (not sure if they still are) restricted. Saying that, it was easy to adapt colonial ranges and indulge in some kitbashing. Eventually got there though.
Terrain was another matter, there was nothing on the market for a 15mm 19th century London or English urban setting. Blue Moon have a range, but they aren't cheap if you're in the UK.
28mm is just..…….. sexy! :-* Being a part of a massed 28mm scale game is great.
Either way, I've had good games with both scales.
Sorry James, that's probably as helpful as tits on a bull ::)
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For mass battles I tend to go for Black Hat's Martian Empires range in 15/18mm. Mind you, even in this scale my megalomania can make storage awkward.