Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: marco55 on August 09, 2018, 02:49:24 AM
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This period would be interesting to have a range.Russians,Cossacks,all the different tribes of Siberia.It was from 1580 until really into the 20th century.It was some of the most brutal campaigns against native peoples by anybody.
Mark
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MY Miniatures does a line for the Conquest of Siberia.
That would be the place to start.
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Yermak
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MY Miniatures does a line for the Conquest of Siberia.
That would be the place to start.
What is your website?
Mark
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Found your website but I like 28mm. At least there is one person who thinks like me. :D
Mark
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My friend, the portrait of Yermak, represented by you, is not true. He did not wear Western-style clothes and armor. More is the reality of this monument. And yet, the indigenous population of Yermak did not destroy, it's a lie. Khan Kuchum with whom he fought, Yermak was from the same alien conquerors, who are not the indigenous inhabitants of Siberia.
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Here's another:
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But the warriors of Kuchum Khan are in principle the descendants of Genghis Khan and they can be made from miniatures depicting the soldiers of the same Golden Horde.
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Here is a modern drawing of one of the fights between Ermak and Kuchum:
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Really interesting period that we here in the west don't here much about.MY Miniatures has a nice range in 15mm. I figured you could use Mongol/Tartar type figures.Thanks for the info.
Mark
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Yes, the bulk of Kuchum's troops are infantry and the Tatar-Mongolian cavalry. Local princes could be like allies. But I do not know such 28mm miniatures.
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These might do. https://fireforge-games.com/mongol-horde-22
Mark
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https://fireforge-games.com/medieval-russians-24
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I meant miniatures depicting local warriors-Ostyaks, Voguls and similar peoples:
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I read your post wrong.I don't know of anybody that does them either.I would think that some Russian manufacturer would do some but I really don't know of many in Russia that do 28mm.
Mark
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To our great regret, our Russian manufacturers of miniatures are not at all interested in this period. Nobody makes the Russian army of the 16th-17th centuries. Alas! :'(
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:o >:( :-[
Mark
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The assault group makes Muscovite troops for that period - including Streltsy and cavalry. As well, they make Ukrainian cossacks with Polish style scalp locks and moustaches. I wonder if those could be converted with greenstuff to become Muscovite cossacks?
Do any of the Russian members have pictures of what Muscovite cossacks would wear in the 1500 and 1600's?
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Friends. The general concept was that the Cossacks had no uniform at that time. They dressed and armed in something they had enough money for. The richer had good weapons and clothing, the poor often walked in ordinary peasant clothesI think that the miniatures of Old Glory can be used. And information about the Russian army of that time can be found in this book:
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For such a game, first of all, models of river ships will be needed, since Ermak's army moved exclusively along the rivers. For the same reason, the part of the images cited above, in cavalry armor, is not suitable for creating an army of Russian Cossacks.
The Ermak expedition was a private enterprise of the Ural merchants, the brothers Stroganov. Their money was hired and armed with Cossacks. The detachment also employed a significant number of captured Litvin captured during the Livonian War and sent to settle the Urals.
Ermak's detachment, like a commercial expedition, was superbly armed with the most modern European weapons, including light naval artillery. The opponents of the Cossacks had no firearms.
I planned to make a ruler of figures for this period, but the idea was abandoned as commercially unpromising. This is a little-known conflict in the West, and, accordingly, there will be no great demand for such figures. One Russian demand will not cover the cost of work.
I even still have unfinished Cossack rowing boat:
(http://a.radikal.ru/a33/1808/64/77528dab4cdf.jpg)
Although this game promises very interesting scenarios. For example, the river was blocked by a chain, on both banks there are Tatars, and to the Cossacks in order to break through, it is necessary to unhook the chain on one of the banks.
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Here there is someone's self-made clip for personal creativity. The clip is cut from fragments of the feature film "Ermak". And although the quality is low, one can get some idea of how the Cossacks acted during the campaign:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swLL5XLSegU
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Thank you for your input.Shame there's not more interest.I really like to find out about wars and campaigns of other nations besides the US,and UK.We have plenty of info on these countries.I saw a couple of books on the Siberian Conquest at Amazon.I will have to get these.
Mark
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https://www.facebook.com/TheAssaultGroup/photos/pb.112060275556526.-2207520000.1533947127./1891653287597207/?type=3&theater
http://www.helion.co.uk/muscovy-s-soldiers-the-emergence-of-the-russian-army-1462-1689.html
(http://www.helion.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/9/7/9781912390106_1.jpg)
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Andrei, thanks for all the pictures!
They answer my question. Yermak's cossacks would have looked roughly like streltsy. Marco could make them from the TAG Muscovy range. Maybe some head swaps to make them look like gentry wearing metal helmets.
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I think that for the conversion of the figures of the Streltsys it will be necessary to add some armor (chain mail or quilted), since the Tatars actively used bows in battle.
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I think that for the conversion of the figures of the Streltsys it will be necessary to add some armor (chain mail or quilted), since the Tatars actively used bows in battle.
They could wear the chain mail under their coats?
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In the Russian tradition was a multi-layer armor - the simultaneous use of chain mail, often reinforced with lamillar inserts, and soft armor. This was the most effective combination of armor for confronting oriental archers and their excellent cavalry. But in this particular case, apparently, the armor was not used by all, since there was a great danger of falling into the water and drowning under its weight.
That's how Ermak died ...
The armor under the clothes was not worn, but, in my opinion, create from the "green" elements of the armor under the equipment is not very difficult. Also in battle, many Cossacks, I think, use different helmets. They could be different models - Russian, European, Turkish...
Here, I think, are the most characteristic variants of full armament:
(http://b.radikal.ru/b12/1808/e2/7a9cedf417ec.jpg)
(http://d.radikal.ru/d34/1808/8d/b80d201418cb.jpg)
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The bottom guy's head gear - Is it padded soft armour over a hard inner frame?
I have seen this strange helmet before....
Of course, Yermak's men would also look similar to any other Muscovite army in the 1500's? So you could use them for the Battle of Kazan or War in Livonia?
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It was made on cotton wool of cloth, silk or paper fabrics, sometimes reinforced with chain mail and quilted.
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Another drawing of the "paper cap":
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Very interesting thread.
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Very interesting thread.
Just caught up with it, I'll be following!
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This is all very interesting. And an era of history that I never really out that much thought into. I might have to look more into it.
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If anyone is interested in the reconstruction of one of the banners of the detachment Ermak:
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And further:
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Those banners would be hard to reproduce.
Mark
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Of course, Yermak's men would also look similar to any other Muscovite army in the 1500's? So you could use them for the Battle of Kazan or War in Livonia?
Oh sure.
The only difference is that the military commanders of Ermak were peshemi. In other battles, they probably would have traveled on horseback.
The reconstructions of the Ermak banners mentioned here are very remotely similar to the original ones ;)
(http://d.radikal.ru/d07/1808/db/fdec70c7f87d.jpg)
(http://c.radikal.ru/c32/1808/86/ed7dde698ccf.jpg)
Actually, I am a graphic artist by profession and draw the banner for my figures myself. If such a series of miniatures were created - for it would appear quite good banners:
http://siberia-miniatures.ru/index.php?cPath=62
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It was made on cotton wool of cloth, silk or paper fabrics, sometimes reinforced with chain mail and quilted.
Thank you for the image!
How much protection did the helmet really give?
It seems odd. Why not just use a metal helmet? Was that too expensive?
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Oh sure.
The only difference is that the military commanders of Ermak were peshemi. In other battles, they probably would have traveled on horseback.
Actually, I am a graphic artist by profession and draw the banner for my figures myself. If such a series of miniatures were created - for it would appear quite good banners:
http://siberia-miniatures.ru/index.php?cPath=62
"Peshemi" = foot soldiers / infantry?
Here are the TAG Muscovite and Tatar ranges that may be suitable for this campaign.
https://theassaultgroup.co.uk/product-category/renaissance/tatar/
https://theassaultgroup.co.uk/product-category/renaissance/russian/page/2/
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This helmet is cheaper, while it is quite effective (remember the Greek antique linen armor). In addition, this is a good winter hat ;)
"Peshemi" = foot soldiers / infantry?
Yes. Excuse me.
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This helmet is cheaper, while it is quite effective (remember the Greek antique linen armor). In addition, this is a good winter hat ;)
Did the helmet have some kind of a hard inner frame - wood or metal?
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There is no skeleton. Several layers of fabric, laid with felt, cotton or hair and quilted. Can be from the inside reinforced with chain mail or small metal plates. This Mongolian armor, adopted by the Russians and slightly modified.
(http://c.radikal.ru/c21/1808/38/c993fb6af8fd.jpg)
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No, there was no hard fixation. Could have sewed a piece of chain mail for protection, but the frame was not exactly. Often a paper cap was used together with the pulling, a kind of jacket of the same material:
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"Peshemi" = foot soldiers / infantry?
Here are the TAG Muscovite and Tatar ranges that may be suitable for this campaign.
https://theassaultgroup.co.uk/product-category/renaissance/tatar/
https://theassaultgroup.co.uk/product-category/renaissance/russian/page/2/
So do you think the Cossack foot soldiers from the TAG range would be alright? I don't think there would be cavalry at least in Ermak's expedition.Would there be Russians or just Cossacks on this expedition?
Mark
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My friend here should remember the main thing-this expedition was not organized by the state and Tsar Ivan the Terrible. This is the idea of the Stroganov family. And accordingly there were no state troops, but there are mercenaries, in this case Cossacks.
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I didn't mean state troops but Russian mercenaries.I don't know about in Russia but we consider Russians and Cossacks different and I thought there might be a few Russians mixed in with the Cossacks.I know I'm probably wrong but until my books arrive I will ask here. lol
Mark
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This is very interesting.
A period I know nothing about.
Thanks to all those who have added information.
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Some interesting books on this subject, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801489229/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1530637600/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671667556/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Mark
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I have an army that could stand in for the Russians in 15mm. Just painted them up last year from figures that have been in my lead mountain for close to 20 years.
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So do you think the Cossack foot soldiers from the TAG range would be alright? I don't think there would be cavalry at least in Ermak's expedition.Would there be Russians or just Cossacks on this expedition?
Mark
I am thinking the provincial streltsy with green stuff mail or padded jerkings might do. Subject to what Andrei and Cuprum can suggest.
The only issue might be that those sets are a little smaller in size than the rest of the range, IIRC. I got some of them by mistake a few years ago.
Cossacks were runaway serfs who settled in colonies along the rivers in Tartar country. Those who formed the largest colony (along the Dnepr) were Ukrainian and therefore dressed in the Polish style with shaved heads and long moustaches. Those who settled on the Don and Volga were ethnic Russian and would have dressed like Russians with long hair and beards. Again I defer to any information from Andrey or Cuprum on these points.
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Huevans correctly explained the origin of the Cossacks. It can also be added that the Cossack subculture was originally built as an exclusively military society and military democracy, since they lived in territories that were not formally belonging to any state (until the 16th century). These territories in Eastern Europe were called "Wild Field", they were constantly raided by various nomads, mostly Crimean Tatars. Tatars tried to destroy any settlements on this territory, and people to seize and sell into slavery. The Cossacks themselves, and on their own initiative, regularly made military campaigns against their neighbors. Most often they were campaigns to Crimea and Turkey, but they had to attack Russia and Poland. Sometimes even in alliance with the Crimean Tatars. Cossack at that time could be anyone who wants to accept the Orthodox faith and will be accepted into the Cossack collective at the general meeting. Among the Cossacks met Europeans, Turks, Tatars, Poles and even Jews. Cossacks often took the wives of captives, brought from campaigns - mostly Turkish women and Tatars. Therefore, among them, eastern features can be seen. Also, the Cossacks very often acted as a hired military force - professional, well-armed, but sometimes poorly managed.
After the entry of these territories into Russia, the Cossacks, in the main, retained their traditional way of life and became a military class. The Cossack was required at the first request to fight with his own horse, weapons and uniforms, and for this state provided him with extensive privileges. In the same way, the Cossacks were resettled to other remote border areas of the country where the probability of border raids was high, forming new Cossack territories (Siberian, Semirechensk, Trans-Baikal Cossack Hosts).
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The main part of the detachment of Ermak is made up of Cossacks from the Volga. It should be remembered that the Cossacks mostly procured clothes and weapons for themselves, and basically they were military trophies. And mostly of Asian origin - the Tatar and Turkish, in the case of the Volga Cossacks also Persian. Just robbed and Russian merchants. In general, they looked pretty colorful!
Thumbnails from the TAG can be used completely. But I would advise you to make a possible conversion - with the help of "green" stitch mails, paper hats, cotton jackets, etc.
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And I want to express my opinion on the use of horses in the campaign Yermak. Of course, at the initial stage, the movement was along rivers, but in the process of conquest, a sufficient number of trophy horses were used, which they used. After all, we had mountains and forests in the Urals, and with the advance into the depths of Siberia, the landscape changed. And especially in the winter, when the rivers were freezing they had to travel by horse, sled dogs and skis. And the clothes of the Cossacks used indigenous peoples, as in this figure:
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And indeed, the use of skis in the Russian army of that time should not be forgotten. There were whole "ski trips":
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In Siberia at that time, it was much easier to move along rivers than in the taiga, since there were practically no roads. All settlements were also located exclusively along river banks (except for temporary camps). In addition, in the mountains and the taiga it is simply impossible to fight effectively on horseback. In winter, the movement is also conducted on the surface of the frozen river, and that's when horses were used.
Equestrian armor for the Cossacks was absolutely unnecessary in this campaign, in addition, the Cossacks at that time generally preferred the tactics of the foot battle, realizing the advantages of firearms.
Skis in battle were never used. Cossacks Ermak in winter fought twice - for the first time the Tatars killed a small party of fishermen (but this episode is difficult to call a war), and the second time the Cossacks committed a night attack on the camp of Mametkul. These are the only episodes where horses could be used.
Andrew, the campaign of Ermak is well studied - no need to produce excessive entities ;)
(http://clubklad.ru/upload/gallery/user/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D1%85%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8B%D1%87/Ermakova_karta.jpg)
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There is a great book with translations of contemporary documents and chronicles (like the Remezov's Chronicle) authored by Young from 1975.
Here is my Yeremak in 1/72 scale before receiving armor from the Tsar.
(https://pp.userapi.com/c824501/v824501571/161a37/87cn42ZemLY.jpg)
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Quite good :) But in battle, he still probably wore armor.
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Some redo reconstructions:
Khan Kuchum
(https://pp.userapi.com/c824504/v824504079/174dac/UTtc5y4KxR8.jpg)
Yeremak
(https://pp.userapi.com/c824504/v824504079/174db6/alt2kQKO2LM.jpg)
Cossacks fighting Mansis
(https://pp.userapi.com/c830709/v830709079/12a866/fkXW0hrnaJE.jpg)
Mansi warriors
(https://pp.userapi.com/c830709/v830709079/12a8a6/Pct98bXJ57U.jpg)
(https://pp.userapi.com/c824200/v824200079/16f3f3/IWy3DoNc-qU.jpg)
(https://pp.userapi.com/c845324/v845324020/774ec/qsNjaQ0Yv7c.jpg)
(https://pp.userapi.com/c845324/v845324020/774c9/iL-D-yJFY_0.jpg)
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Probably yes that's why I'm working on the armored version , as well as some cossacks and Mansis.
As for the boats, do you think that zaporozhian chaika could pass as struga?
As for more diversity in Muscovite forces check Mansurov's reinforcements and campaign from IIRC 1598.
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I think the Cossack chaika is fine. We need only take into account that it should not be very large, since boats often had to be dragged from one river to another by land.
Will the esteemed public have an interest in a 28-mm crowd-funded project on the theme of the Yermak campaign?
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Definitely, I'd be interested especially in Kuchum's subject warriors 😊.
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Here is Ermak's figure in armor:
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And at the expense of using horses in the detachment of Ermak, I was prompted by this image from the annals. It is the flight of Kuchum from Isker, where the persecution of one cavalry detachment is depicted to another.
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And let's not forget about the detachment of streltsy with the voivode sent to Ermak by Tsar Ivan the Terrible. And there were from 300 to 500 people from different sources.
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Here is the image of the battle. Pay attention to the multi-barreled gun:
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I do not know anything about the persecution of Kuchum by a detachment of Cossacks after escaping from Isker. Why are you interpreting the second detachment of cavalry as Cossacks?
The capital of the Siberian Khanate - Isker:
(http://zaimka.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/zaimka-ru_maslyuzhenko-isker1.jpg)
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The seven-barrel cannon of the detachment Ermak - "Soroka":
(http://b.radikal.ru/b31/1808/0c/ce01fe29ad8a.jpg)
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I do not know anything about the persecution of Kuchum by a detachment of Cossacks after escaping from Isker. Why are you interpreting the second detachment of cavalry as Cossacks?
The capital of the Siberian Khanate - Isker:
(http://zaimka.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/zaimka-ru_maslyuzhenko-isker1.jpg)
This is just my logical assumption. I'm not saying this. Two mounted detachments visually different from each other are drawn.
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Streltsy arrived quite late and the vast majority of them died during the famine in Iskar. As a separate entity, they are unlikely to take part in the fighting. But individual figures of strelts can be included in the Cossack army.
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I agree. But we are talking about wargame, not historical reconstruction of the battles. And the battles will be purely heptotical. There was such a detachment, we can safely display it.
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Here, of course, I agree :)
But someone is reading this thread and of interest to real events. ;)
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If anyone is interested in a 15 mm scale there are such funny miniatures:
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Will the esteemed public have an interest in a 28-mm crowd-funded project on the theme of the Yermak campaign?
Hoooooooooooooooooooooo Yes , i have a perfect and very strong interest for that :)
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I think the Cossack chaika is fine. We need only take into account that it should not be very large, since boats often had to be dragged from one river to another by land.
Will the esteemed public have an interest in a 28-mm crowd-funded project on the theme of the Yermak campaign?
Maybe.... Despite my interest in the period, it would be far down my priority list for collecting and gaming. And it would be nice if the figures were compatible with TAG.
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My friend plans to assemble the Russian army at the beginning of the 17th century and if there are archers in the lineup, I think he will be interested. Moreover, he was looking for a master for making models.
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Will the esteemed public have an interest in a 28-mm crowd-funded project on the theme of the Yermak campaign?
[/quote]
I would be very interested in a 28mm range. :D
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Thank you all for the info and I'm glad there is a strong interest in this period.Hopefully we will have a range someday. ;D :-*
Mark
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Very much even can be))) We are thinking about resuming work on this range.
Most of the Cossack figures will be suitable for the creation of any Russian army for this period, as well as part of the Tatar line will be suitable for repulsing the Tatar armies fighting in Eastern Europe.
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I would very much like to see the streltsy. And then the mini from TAG if honestly not satisfied. ;)
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Very much even can be))) We are thinking about resuming work on this range.
Most of the Cossack figures will be suitable for the creation of any Russian army for this period, as well as part of the Tatar line will be suitable for repulsing the Tatar armies fighting in Eastern Europe.
That would be great!
Mark
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I found the film "Yermak" on Youtube. There is no 4 series, there are Russian subtitles, and you can make them automatically translated into English. The translation will be clumsy, but the general meaning will probably be caught ... You can just see the episodes with the battles.
Enter in the search on Youtube: фильм сериал "Ермак"
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Thanks Cuprum !
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Do you plan on making these boats or it is not feasible at this time.
Mark
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Strug (Cossack boat) will be created necessarily. Right now, at this moment, I'm working on this model)))
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That sounds real good. ;D
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Will the boat your working on now be available commercially?
Mark
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Yes, of course.
When the model of the boat is ready, I will put the photo here before sending it to mass production.
The sculptor plans to begin work on the figures in early September.
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:D :D :D ;D
Mark
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Excellent new Cuprum !
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Couple of model renditions of Yermak. First one a 54mm.
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Second one a 90mm. Both are on ebay.
Mark
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On the first figure there is a bow. It is unlikely that Ermak and his Cossacks used bows - the detachment was full of the most modern firearms. I think it was more appropriate to depict the wheel-lock pistol.
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What a rich thread! This and the conflict between th Russian fur traders and the Tlingit are two ranges I would love to see produced in 28mm. Is anyone actually doing this or is it just a research topic? I saw that first painting when I was in St Petersburg and it was epic!
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The Russo-Tlingit War is already the beginning of the 19th century. The Russians are quite suitable for the partisans in 1812. I once saw figures of Tlingit Indians of 28 mm in combat armor, but I do not remember who makes them.
I remembered, but alas, this is 15 mm: https://eurekaminusa.com/search?type=product&q=tlingit
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Someone on TMP was talking about starting the Alaskan range again but I can't remember who it was.
Mark
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It was TVAG talking about reviving the old Knights of The Pacific Northwest range, but they are likely 25mm and pretty dated at this point. I’d like to see some new sculpts. If at some point I have the money I might do it myself... ;)
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I've learned that you have to have some deep pockets to do a range. :o lol
Mark
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Without a doubt! Probably a topic for another thread, but I’ve often wondered what it would cost to do a range of 30-50 figures with top-tier sculpting talent...
I've learned that you have to have some deep pockets to do a range. :o lol
Mark
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Helmets of Russian warriors found on the territory of Siberia:
(http://muscovitearmor.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/d0b1d0bed0b1d180d0bed0b2-d188d0b8d188d0b0d0ba-d0bcd0bed181d0ba-d188d0b8d188d0b0d0ba-d0bbd0b8d182d0bed0b2d181d0bad0b8d0b9-d182-d0b4.jpg?w=1100)
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My goodness! Is it possible that some of Yermak's men had full suits of Western armour? Or that there were some Western adventurers with his little army?
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I read that in the detachment of Ermak there were Tatars, Germans and Litvin.
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This story is getting more and more interesting! Thanks to all the contributors of these rare infos!
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This is very likely. While I moved away from the topic, a number of scientific articles appeared on the subject of the costume and weapons of the "Russian conquistadors." Very interesting information. Sponsors of the expedition, the merchants of the Stroganov brothers, provided the expedition with the most modern weapons and armor, including the European one. For example, on the arms of the detachment of Ermak there were Spanish arquebuses. In addition, the detachment included former prisoners captured in the Livonian War. I think that in the Livonian Order there were a lot of Europeans who would prefer the usual weapons for them (this is my little speculation))) However, the Cossacks also never hesitated to use their spoils of war.
Figures of helmets and armor of the detachment Ermak from the annals of that period. I think I see a lot of European armor...
(http://d.radikal.ru/d23/1808/fa/f318d066addc.jpg)
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Another interesting detail. Russian warriors in Siberia were forced to make extensive use of armor until the end of the 17th century...
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Here are some more drawings on the topic:
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This story is getting more and more interesting! Thanks to all the contributors of these rare infos!
I also thank everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Mark
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Here are some drawings of the streltsy of the 16th century:
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Does anyone think that Old Glory's Cossacks and Russians would be suitable for the1580's?
Mark
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Anyone have any ideas for rules or army lists for the conquest of Siberia? I am looking at small scale skirmish. I was thinking a Muskets and Tomahawks variant would be perfect and about the size game I am looking for. I need to do more research before I can come up with some lists though. Picked up the Yermak’s Campaign in Siberia translations in English to start. Finally have some use for my Wargames Foundry Cossacks!
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I'm not ready to suggest the right rules, but the scale of the battles was rather small.
Ermak's detachment consisted of 540 Volga Cossacks. In addition, the Cossacks usually had one or more "chur" - the so-called adolescent teenager, who should have earned the right to be accepted into the Cossacks. The structure of the detachment Ermak included about 50 people from the military squads of merchants Stroganov, among whom were prisoners of the Livonian War (it is possible - Europeans). The total number of Cossack detachment is about 1000 people.
Later, Ermak received reinforcements from the tsar, a detachment of Prince Semyon Bolkhovsky. The squad consisted of 300 streltsy from Kazan and other nearby cities.
The Cossacks had in their arms a pischal (an analog of the European arquebus), small cannons. The main cold weapon used by the Cossacks is a spear. All the Cossacks had a good protective armor, which protected them in battle against the arrows of the Siberians. The Cossack boat carried about 20 people. Widespread in the Cossacks way of fighting - the best shooters are firing, the rest are charging and giving the guns to the shooters, which allows for a fairly intense fire.
The army of Khan Kuchum, according to recollections, could reach 10,000 people (which is clearly exaggerated). In any case, it was much larger than Ermak's detachment. Its core was the Nogai Guards (about 400 people) and the Tatars. It was a beautiful steppe cavalry. But there was not much of it, since the son of Khan Kuchum - Aley, left with a large part of the troops to fight with the Russians for the Ural Mountains. He returned only the next year. Local tribes Khanty and Mansi were auxiliary pedestrian detachments. The forced Siberian peoples did not want to fight for the interests of the Tatars and therefore had low fighting qualities.
The main weapon of the Siberians is a good bow, similar to the Mongolian one. Warriors Kuchum preferred to distance combat. The cavalry could attack with cold steel.
Firearms were familiar to Tatars and they were not afraid of him. The Siberians often met with this weapon in raids to the east of the Moscow principality. Khan Kuchum had even two own cannon, but there were no gunners for their use.
I hope this helps you with the drafting of army lists. If you have any questions - ask.
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@Cuprum
Thanks for the great info! I think for the sake of interest I would probably allow the Khan to have hired some gunners for his artillery ;)
I want to do some more of my own reading first but will post some lists here when I have something more concrete.
~ Ax
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Wanted to ask about the Streltsy who was sent by the czar as reinforcements to Ermak,were they provincial or Moscow?
Mark
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They were provincial streltsy from the city of Kazan and nearby cities. Approximately 50 people from each city were allocated for the campaign.
Unfortunately, the streltsy did not have any food with them, hoping to find food on the spot. But almost immediately the whole Russian detachment was besieged in the capital Khan Kuchum and spent the whole winter there. Most of the streltsy, including Prince Bolkhovsky, perished from hunger.
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Thank you again Cuprum.
Mark
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Here are some drawings of the streltsy of the 16th century:
They sure did have a lot of different headgear! :o lol
Mark
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(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6114/92630947.208/0_88abb_7c36a18f_XXL.jpg)
This is the streltsy of the 17th century, but the headgear is the same...
Two kinds of hats were used - summer and winter (conditionally). Winter - with fur trim. Also in the fight, helmets could be used.
In one of the drawings, the strelets has an ordinary cap just lying flat on his head))) In pictorial sources, sometimes there is such a manner of wearing a headdress.
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By the way, the streltsy of the period of the Ermak campaign did not have a bandolier and a berdish (a 17th-century ax-halberd). More precisely - the berdish only began to appear and was not distributed. Also in the campaign Ermak did not use a heavy musket with a bipod.
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http://warfare.tk/17/Remezov.htm http://warfare.cf/index.htm
Mark
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http://warfare.tk/17/Remezov.htm http://warfare.cf/index.htm
Mark
Thanks Marco, this is really very interesting !
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Your welcome.
Mark
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The first figures of Cossacks:
(http://a.radikal.ru/a19/1809/90/beddf1810552.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a30/1809/97/77b355161cea.jpg)
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Are you actually going to do a range ? If you are I will wait until your figures are available before I try any others.
Mark
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As you can see, the work has already begun ;)
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Very nice! Count me in. Will there be tribal types too?
Ax
The first figures of Cossacks:
(http://a.radikal.ru/a19/1809/90/beddf1810552.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a30/1809/97/77b355161cea.jpg)
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Yes, after the Cossacks we plan to make the Siberians.
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Excellent, well proportioned sculpts with well defined details, a joy to paint! Cheers!
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Superb :-*
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Thank you for your feedback and interest in our work.
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It's just great! I did not see anything like that! Bravo.
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High quality sculpture, this is the merit of our sculptor - Leon.
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The first miniature on 100% can be used as "sovereign Sagittarius "!
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In fact, there were no special external differences, during this period, between the Streltsy and the Cossacks. They differed only in the way they fought.
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I agree. But this line of miniatures may well go to the beginning of the 17th century. The same "Time of Troubles".
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In the 17th century, the streltsi already have a characteristic ax-berdysh, a heavy musket and a bandolier "twelve apostles". Their appearance changes markedly.
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I will be checking on your range so keep us posted.
Mark
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OK. But we will need some time to create this series of figures.
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I agree. But this line of miniatures may well go to the beginning of the 17th century. The same "Time of Troubles".
Of course, but not for the streltsi. Cossacks (Don, Urals, city) in the first half of the 17th century could well preserve this appearance. Also, these figures are outstandingly suitable for the creation of the Russian army era of Ivan the Terrible.
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Sounds good.If you do a Yermak figure do one with armor and one without the armor. ;D
Mark
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OK. But we will need some time to create this series of figures.
That's fine.Gives me time to grow my bank account. lol
Mark
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In the 17th century, the streltsi already have a characteristic ax-berdysh, a heavy musket and a bandolier "twelve apostles". Their appearance changes markedly.
Here is the reconstruction of Oleg Fedorov for 1610, for the museum:
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Well, it is quite possible that the transition period was captured at the very beginning of the 17th century. Especially on the periphery.
For the illustration with the image of the city strelets, special thanks! I searched for information about the length of a spear used by infantry, but could not find.
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I am glad to help! And by the way, if you do gunners, here's a good picture:
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Thank you. Most of the reconstructions Fedorov I know.
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Here is another drawing of a foot warrior with a spear:
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Yes, thank you. I am more interested in Siberian warriors of the late 16th century.
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The Siberians will look great I'm sure.
Mark
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For such a game, first of all, models of river ships will be needed, since Ermak's army moved exclusively along the rivers. For the same reason, the part of the images cited above, in cavalry armor, is not suitable for creating an army of Russian Cossacks.
The Ermak expedition was a private enterprise of the Ural merchants, the brothers Stroganov. Their money was hired and armed with Cossacks. The detachment also employed a significant number of captured Litvin captured during the Livonian War and sent to settle the Urals.
Ermak's detachment, like a commercial expedition, was superbly armed with the most modern European weapons, including light naval artillery. The opponents of the Cossacks had no firearms.
I planned to make a ruler of figures for this period, but the idea was abandoned as commercially unpromising. This is a little-known conflict in the West, and, accordingly, there will be no great demand for such figures. One Russian demand will not cover the cost of work.
I even still have unfinished Cossack rowing boat:
(http://a.radikal.ru/a33/1808/64/77528dab4cdf.jpg)
Although this game promises very interesting scenarios. For example, the river was blocked by a chain, on both banks there are Tatars, and to the Cossacks in order to break through, it is necessary to unhook the chain on one of the banks.
Hope the boats will be done also. :D
Mark
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Work on the boat goes. Without this model it will be impossible to make a part of the crew figures.
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I figured you would but just wanted to make sure.A boatload of Cossacks going down a river with Siberians attacking from both sides would make a great diorama.
Mark
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Those minis look great, can't wait to see more of them.
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Those figures are amazing...always wanted to game this. ,ever since I saw the painting.
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Would be a nice Christmas present wouldn't you say? lol
Mark
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Ermak and standard bearer.
(http://b.radikal.ru/b40/1809/f0/351032c8d50b.jpg)
And a little rock for inspiration)
"I was a robber on the Don, in Siberia I became a hero ..."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OOOW1g1w2U
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Superb :-*
I will buy this range ;)
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Splendid sculpts! Cheers!
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Шикарный шикардос! Снимаю шляпу! Даже не передашь все эмоции на английком. Такого качества лепки на ренессанс нет ни у кого. Я точно впишусь в этот проект. Урал за Вас. А кстати стяг будет литой или это просто для образца?
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These look great.👍
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Шикарный шикардос! Снимаю шляпу! Даже не передашь все эмоции на английком. Такого качества лепки на ренессанс нет ни у кого. Я точно впишусь в этот проект. Урал за Вас. А кстати стяг будет литой или это просто для образца?
All the admiration I address sculptor who worked on this project. It's really a very good job;)
The banner will not be cast with the figure. For this project, paper banners will be made.
However, it is not very difficult to make the very banner itself, as in the photo. You need to cut the canvas of the flag from the "tinned can" (for example from coffee), solder it to the shaft and curl it properly. Then you can even stick a paper flag field.
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Getting back to the sculpts while they are great looking sculpts we need more fighting poses.I know the range is just starting but I would like to see Yermak in a fighting pose without armor as he really didn't get the armor until after some great victories.
Mark
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Ermak had fine armor from the very beginning (like all other Cossacks). From Ivan the Terrible he received only one more chain armor as a reward.
Here is a photo of this chain armor that is now stored in the museum:
(http://www.stihi.ru/pics/2016/10/17/1590.jpg)
I repeat - on the photo the gift of Ivan the Terrible for Ermak ;)
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Thanks for educating me on all this.
Mark
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Ready to answer any of your questions. I understand that in English there is little information on this topic, and it is not always reliable.
I would like to invite my colleague Andrei1975 to tell you about the main battles of the Ermak detachment, which can help create historical scenarios for games. I do not have enough time for this work yet.
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I want to thank you guys because without you and Andrei we would have almost nothing accurate about this subject.All the best.
Mark
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Personally, I always make paper flags for my armies. By the way, if the series will go in addition to miniatures and flags, it will be great. By the way, as an advertisement I can all advise the flags that Cuprum does. I myself bought it German flags for the Great War-was simply delighted with the quality.
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Thank you for appreciating my products)
But I make flags, basically, only to figures which I make or which I trade. Or, sometimes, at the request of my friends and acquaintances.
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Wow! Really nice! Agreed it would be nice to have some more dynamic poses on some of the figures.
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Hi guys.
I have no experience of using sailing ships in the game ... What is the best way to make a mast on a boat? Resin or metal? The resin seems to me not strong enough, and metal - it is too flexible. Or can you just put two pieces of, for example, a copper wire of the right diameter into the kit?
Is Sail need?
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Hi !
The best way is platic tube (Evergreen or Plastruc, i prefer Plastruc because it's more solid)
if you can't , the best is , i don't know the term in english language ? , the wood stick used to get plants straigh !
Sail is important if no rowers, if rowers then in fight , the sails are not used ! And then it's less important to have sails with the kit ...
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Thank you!
I forgot to write. The diameter of the mast is only 4 mm (bottom), up to 2 - at the top. And the crossbar - 2 mm. You can increase the thickness - but it will look rough.
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I'm for metal. It will be more reliable. And if there are rowers, then there is no need to dismiss the sail.
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Siberian Tatars:
(http://b.radikal.ru/b03/1809/f9/0389214f6fa0.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a31/1809/8c/3e9366cb23a9.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a02/1809/a1/8c98178a1a9a.jpg)
(http://d.radikal.ru/d31/1809/33/bbadb57fcede.jpg)
Warriors of the Finno-Ugric tribes (Khanty and Mansi):
(http://a.radikal.ru/a19/1809/45/29b001b74a38.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a00/1809/b4/e9a5663f7f73.jpg)
(http://d.radikal.ru/d42/1809/5d/16c9ce0129c9.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a02/1809/99/ab092a44b7e5.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a04/1809/cc/c6acb6675c07.jpg)
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Cool!!!
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Some rough looking dudes! :o lol
Mark
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They remind me my mother-in-law! :o
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lol lol lol lol lol
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The most battle-worthy soldiers in the army of Khan Kuchum were Uzbeks, Kazakhs and Nogays who came with him. Here's a sample from the armament:
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The last four drawings are not related to the Siberian Khanate - they are Kazakhs, Bukharans, Uzbeks, Tajiks. Warriors of Central Asia. A lot of similarities - but it was not them)))
Most importantly - the Siberians did not use the protection of the horse.
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I am wrong. As part of the troops of Kuchum were about 2-3 thousand warriors - Uzbeks, Nogais, Kazakhs and Kazan Tatars. They were the so-called "Nogai Guard" khan Kuchum. And these were heavily armed warriors.
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That's it. I had them in mind. Here are some more drawings to create images:
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And even in the development of the topic, it may be worthwhile to think about whether it is worth putting some of Ermak's people in local clothes, as in this figure. After all, there were difficult wintering and the Russians quickly assessed the quality of local fur garments.
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And perhaps useful for understanding military affairs of taiga peoples:
http://www.parabellum.vzmakh.ru/n8_s3.shtml
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And I want to explain to our foreign comrades: the campaign of Ermak to Siberia is not the conquest of America by the conquistadors! The Russians made trips to the Urals and Siberia hundreds of years before Yermak, and Khan Kuchum himself raided Russian lands. So there was no panic fear of firearms like the Aztecs and the Incas.
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Wow awesome pictures, prelude to a brilliant range i hope :-*
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In the message number 178, the 1st and 4th pictures are just somebody's fantasies on the chosen topic.
On the picture marked with number 16 can Kashgar and Kirghiz warriors - to the raised theme have no relation.
I can not find any information about the use horse armor in the army khan Kuchum. Probably in the taiga and mountains it was abandoned.
In the message №179 images of Russian Cossacks in Siberia in the 17th century - this is about 100 years later than the period of interest to us))) And these are the clothes of quite different tribes from other regions (the Yenisei Kirghiz, Buryats, Jungars).
Of course Cossacks Ermak could use the clothes of local people , but, I think, they had enough of their own clothes because of the good preparation of the expedition.
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Dear friend, I know perfectly well that the picture depicts the soldiers of the 17th century (moreover, I read the article to which it was made!) I brought it as a concept that when the conquests of Siberia at different times used fur clothes of local production. It was cold hell and I'm not sure that the delivery of Russian clothes was regular!
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:) I think the Cossacks well understood in which place they will have to act, even before the campaign began ;)
This is me and you have the opportunity to read articles in Russian or at least signatures to illustrations. Our foreign friends do not have such an opportunity. Therefore, the use of ambiguous illustrations can lead to a distortion of the perception of reality.
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;)And in the 17th century they stupid ceased to understand where they are going and therefore they start using local clothes. I can bring many drawings of conquerors of Siberia and the Far East of the 17-18 centuries in local clothes. And I am deeply convinced of its use in the 16th century. Especially during the expeditions to the lands inhabited by the Khanty and Mansi. There were trophies that were used.
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I have a different approach to the issue - I do not want to fantasize, I want to know for sure ;)
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Prince Bayar, who first recognized the power of Yermak and helped the Cossacks survive the first "hungry" winter:
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I specifically did not publish this picture. Strange helmet, and most importantly, I think that the prince could afford a more dignified armor than bone. In this armor the same Gorelik drew a simple archer, and according to research Bobrov and Khudyakov, even most of the ordinary Khanty and Mansi warriors-militiamen had chain mail.
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A friend of mine. This is a very controversial issue. I personally do not think so.
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Here is another rider for the Siberian Khanate:
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Seems like there were many many ethnic groups in Siberia with a lot of ways to dress for battle.You will probably have to concentrate on a certain few as it will take you forever to do them all. lol
Mark
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Pick the meanest looking ones. :o lol :D
Mark
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And this reconstruction, in my opinion, does not deserve any confidence)))
Do not agree with the best researchers on the topic of Siberian warriors to date - this is your right, my friend.
I apologize to our foreign friends, but I will not be able to translate this text into English. It is a question of the princes of the Khanty and Mansi distributing chain armor from the prince's arsenal to their soldiers during mobilization. And that the chain armor were widely used by these tribes.
"Кольчатые доспехи широко применялись не только тюркским, но и угро-финским населением Западной Сибири, в частности служилыми кодскими хантами. В церкви Троицы в Кодском городке был развернут специальный княжеский арсенал, который насчитывал «40 панцырей, 4 лука бухарских и 50 панцырных (бронебойных. – Л. Б.) стрел», а также некоторое количество шлемов. Собственниками арсенала выступали князья Алачевы. В случае мобилизации кодские ханты собирались у князя и получали из казны панцирное вооружение, а после окончания похода сдавали его в арсенал и расплачивались за аренду доспехов частью военной добычи".
Л.А. Бобров - "КОЛЬЧАТЫЕ ДОСПЕХИ В КОМПЛЕКСЕ ВООРУЖЕНИЯ ВОИНОВ ЗАПАДНОЙ СИБИРИ КОНЦА XVI – XVII ВЕКА"
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The sculptor who is making these figures for Siberia Miniatures just pointed me to this thread (I had asked him for other miniatures). This is extremely interesting, and I can't wait to give my money for these figures!!!
Good job!
Peter
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Picture of the late Middle Ages:
(http://s8.uploads.ru/t/JmiBf.jpg) (http://uploads.ru/JmiBf.jpg)
Modern reconstruction of this warrior:
(http://sh.uploads.ru/t/cL9xN.jpg) (http://uploads.ru/cL9xN.jpg)
From book:
L.A. Bobrov, Yu.S. Khudyakov - WEAPONS AND TACTICS OF NOMADS
CENTRAL ASIA AND SOUTH SIBERIA IN THE LATE OF THE LATE MIDDLE AGES AND THE EARLY NEW TIME (XV - first half of the XVIII century).
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Seems like there were many many ethnic groups in Siberia with a lot of ways to dress for battle.You will probably have to concentrate on a certain few as it will take you forever to do them all. lol
Mark
I agree, concentrate on the most common ones, and make more poses. And - just for me - I prefer relaxed or "waiting" poses to poses full of action. But then, I'm not a gamer, I just collect, paint and make some kind of dioramas...
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The problem is that with some tribes the Russians entered into interaction in the 16th century, with others later. Then the Russian soldiers themselves looked different.
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The problem is that with some tribes the Russians entered into interaction in the 16th century, with others later. Then the Russian soldiers themselves looked different.
Then I think you should start with an early period for both Russians and the fitting tribes, and - if the miniatures are successful like I hope they will be - expand the range to a later timeline. Just my opinion...
Anyway, congratulations! Great project, great research!
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My friend, the phrase you quoted refers to the beginning of the 17th century, that is, to the period after Yermak's campaign. And all people are not lazy about it. And the term "shell" does not match the term "chain mail". I do not deny the existence of chain mail from the local population, but most likely they were distributed in the more southern lands. After all, the concept of Western Siberia- this is thousands of kilometers from the circumpolar Urals to the Yenisei.
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Thank you.
If the figures will have a demand, then of course the topic of the conquest of Siberia will be continued. Very interesting could be a series of figures on the war of Russia with the Dzungar Khanate, with China, with the Chukchi and the Yakuts. And even against the Tlingit Indians.
No, my friend, Khanty and Mansi knew how to make chain mails themselves in the 16th century, according to Bobrov and Khudyakov. And just as easily could get any armor in exchange for precious sable skins.
I also recommend that you read the book Solovyov AI. "Weapons and armor, Siberian arms from the Stone Age to the Middle Ages".
(http://mtdata.ru/u22/photo215F/20840219826-0/original.jpg)
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I agree, concentrate on the most common ones, and make more poses. And - just for me - I prefer relaxed or "waiting" poses to poses full of action. But then, I'm not a gamer, I just collect, paint and make some kind of dioramas...
I not a gamer either but a collector and I would to have or do a diorama of this period.
Mark
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Then I think you should start with an early period for both Russians and the fitting tribes, and - if the miniatures are successful like I hope they will be - expand the range to a later timeline. Just my opinion...
Anyway, congratulations! Great project, great research!
I agree with this. Yermak is the starting point.
Mark
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Here is an image of the northern warriors from this book, you yourself brought it:
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The caption to the picture exactly we are talking about the period after the submission of these tribes to the Russian Tsar. Wars between tribes stopped and armor became unnecessary. But this means that earlier they were still ;)
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I glad I started this thread as I've learned a great deal about Siberian peoples and history.And hopefully an excellent range. ;D
Mark
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All this I say to the fact that not all Russian soldiers had defensive weapons, as well as local soldiers. There was a light infantry without a suit without armor, and there were heavily armed infantrymen, as in this figure:
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And to what tribe he belongs to the warrior? Siberian Tatar, Kashgarian, Yenisei Kirghiz, Mansi, someone else? Drawings from this book - some kind of vinaigrette...
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If you are interested in my opinion, I would depict a heavily armed Khantian warrior. Exactly what you referred to is armor, which was kept in fortresses and issued during the war. It could be a professional warrior from the squad of the local prince.
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The author of the reconstruction himself was not able to name the tribe to which this warrior belongs))) And on what archaeological or imaginative sources do you base your guess?
By the way, in your drawing has two warrior armor - chainmail, and on top of it - something like brigandina.
Bobrov and Khudyakov talk about two types of protective armor, common among the Khanty and Mansi. The first - chainmail, and with a characteristic feature only for these tribes - scalloped hem and sleeves. The second is a fairly common in Siberia hayag - a shell of metal plates fastened with rings.
(http://s8.uploads.ru/t/JmiBf.jpg)
Chainmail survived only in fragments, so I again cite only the iconic source of that period.
(https://preview.ibb.co/hSNMSU/198.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dxKeE9)
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The clothes on the soldier represented by me are typical for Finno-Ugric tribes, it's not Tatar, not Kazakh. Remains, Voguls, Khanty and Mansi. Of these, Bobrov indicates only the Khanty, as the people whose mail was widespread. Voguls and Mansi in general in my opinion had a minimal protective kit.
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(http://b.radikal.ru/b20/1809/ca/6707fb57b92f.jpg)
(http://d.radikal.ru/d21/1809/4b/f1fbd91a5c56.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a10/1809/c9/320028533a25.jpg)
(http://d.radikal.ru/d38/1809/b9/fa9b109dd25b.jpg)
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Wow. My friend I already in love with them! :-*
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Superb :-* I will buy all of them !
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Me too lol
Mark
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Do you sell your figures individually or in sets? I don't mind sets if each pose is different but I don't like duplicates where you get 6 or more of the same poses in one set.
Mark
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I usually sell small sets of figures (1-4 pieces), where all the poses are different. But you can buy any figure separately, and even a detail from it, if you turn to me with a letter. All of the above does not apply to just one set of figures that was cast in Britain and I can not myself cast the missing figures for him.
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They Look awesome 😊.
BTW here is a great book for those who do not speak russian (such as me)
Armstrong, T. (1975). Yeremak's Campaign in Siberia: A Selection of Documents Translated from the Russian. John Benjamins Publishing Company: Boston
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I'll have to check out that book.
Mark
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Wow! These are fantastic! Keep up the good work!
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Count me in as well. I'll be buying these.
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Not trying to rush things at all but when do you think some will be available? To me they look like they are at the beginning of the process meaning being sculpted and these are the greens you are showing us.If I'm wrong (and I usually am :D) please explain.
Mark
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I want to hope that the first figures will be ready for Christmas. But, as the Russian proverb says: "Man proposes, and God disposes" :D
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My friend, maybe as an option to make removable heads for your miniatures in different headgear? This would allow a variety in the army.
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The chain net, which falls on the shoulders of most of the figures, will not allow this.
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On the thumbnails of shooters it is quite possible to do conversions.
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That's fast. Would be great Christmas present. For me that is . lol lol
Mark
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Every time I see this done it almost always ends up looking unnatural. Neck are too short, heads are cocked at odd angles, etc. Maybe do a separate pack of heads for conversions, but please don’t design the figures that way. Very rarely looks good in my opinion.
My friend, maybe as an option to make removable heads for your miniatures in different headgear? This would allow a variety in the army.
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Fit the head in place, the figure has a separate head, not too difficult. But in this case it is not advisable to make separate heads. Perhaps I'll just make a variant of the figure with another headgear and another version of the armor - in order to reflect the "irregular" appearance of the Cossacks. But this is in case if there is any significant interest in this line of figures.
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Every time I see this done it almost always ends up looking unnatural. Neck are too short, heads are cocked at odd angles, etc. Maybe do a separate pack of heads for conversions, but please don’t design the figures that way. Very rarely looks good in my opinion.
I'm curious what the break-down of people is on this point. I personally have no issue with how the figures come out and really appreciate being able to give the army variety. So to me, separate heads for variety are a huge plus.
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I defer to the people who are sculpting and making these figures.I'm sure they have discussed this.
Mark
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Since late July I'm working on a siberian conquest variant for M&T, If anyone is interested in helping me writing it or playtesting just PM me.
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If you have any questions about the history of the campaign, tactics, weapons - I am at your disposal :)
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@Cuprum
Thank you 😊.
Without further ado here are my questions:
With what kind of armament would have been polish and lithuanian prisoners of war equipped? Like cossacks or worse? Was their equipement sponsored by Stroganovs?
Is there an estimate of percentage of Muscovite combatants equipped with blackpowder weapons?
What kind of lock was prevailing - matchlock or Muscovite lock (kind of snaphauce)?
Thank you in advance 😊.
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1. Polish and Lithuanian prisoners of war hardly had any significant differences in armament and equipment from the Cossacks. They were sent to the Urals as workers and settlers, but not soldiers, which means weapons and armor they have not kept.. When they were recruited into the Siberian expedition, they received weapons and equipment from the arsenals of the Stroganovs merchants. Probably there were, among others, European armor and weapons, since we are aware of its use. And it is possible that the former prisoners prefer the familiar weapons - but this is only speculation. They didn’t create any separate units, and probably, simply entered the Cossack class, receiving the status of "Cossack".
2. By the time the fighting began, the detachment of Ermak was about 1,500 people. It is also known that the river fleet of Ermak was about 300 large boats (they were called the Strug). The boat could hold 20 people or up to one and a half tons of cargo. Firearms had about half the squad Ermak. In addition, the boat may be set two to four falconets. How many were there in reality - is not known.
The manner of fighting in the Cossacks such. The best shooters fire out of the muskets, the rest charge and give the shooters loaded guns. This is a fairly intense and long-lasting fire. After bringing the enemy into frustration, the Cossacks attack with cold weapons. Such shooting can be carried out directly from the boats.
3. The Cossacks preferred a wick gun, as allowing a more intense fire at that time. I think most of the castles were Russian-made, although there is evidence that the Spanish arquebus were used in the Ermak detachment.
(http://c.radikal.ru/c13/1810/63/9de5b812a8a0.jpg)
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An interesting fact: the Russians Squeakt the time, being in particular for the armament of the Strelets army, the European eyewitnesses called the arquebus.
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Squeak:
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Work on the Strug is coming to an end. It remains to make rowing and control paddle.
(http://c.radikal.ru/c20/1810/61/0784e7de3886.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a02/1810/06/f436eb76f5ad.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a30/1810/dc/327f7f739e57.jpg)
(http://d.radikal.ru/d22/1810/0c/310282d1d7af.jpg)
Sorry for the quality of the photo - photographer I very mediocre)))
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Excellent :)
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Really nice!
Mark
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwyJg_4Pv5c&list=PLd3SXG2GleExCs5tpbjEAnKa4rk5HmQaK&index=5
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Thank you Cuprum 😊.
Thank you Andrei😊.
Great strug 😊.
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Tatar
(http://c.radikal.ru/c39/1810/fd/60b56a876bbd.jpg)
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Looks good.Can't see the face real good though.
Mark
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His face is hidden by chain mail. See previous illustrations.
(http://d.radikal.ru/d38/1810/6d/99e544e36bc8.jpg)
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ok,I see now.
Mark
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Ooooooooooooooooooooooh :-* :-* :-*
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Excellent sculpt! Very well done!
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:-* :-* :-*
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Wow!
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Would love to see a couple of your figures painted.
Mark
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I do not really understand what interests you ...
I suppose that you want to see the figures, the author of which is the same sculptor who is working on these figures now)))
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i604/1603/16/bdd8be9d751d.jpg)
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Very good medieval russians ! Do you sell these minies , Cuprum, from Siberia Miniatures !?
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Yes of course
http://siberia-miniatures.ru/index.php?cPath=41_39_186
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Beautiful painting.Very talented man
Mark
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I do not really understand what interests you ...
I suppose that you want to see the figures, the author of which is the same sculptor who is working on these figures now)))
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i604/1603/16/bdd8be9d751d.jpg)
I'd like to see a couple from the Yermak range when he has the time.
Mark
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First you need to cast them)))
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Oh ok! :D Just in the sculpting faze right now,that's fine the more the merrier. lol
Mark
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I like those medieval figures too.They are excellent.
Mark
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Friends, today I saw these miniatures on the theme "The Conquest of Siberia". They are somewhat comical, but look what detail!
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lol lol lol lol lol lol
Mark
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Cuprum
The tatar cavalryman and struga looks perfect, when you will show us Khanty and Mansi warriors?
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Patience, gentlemen ... A little patience ;)
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I have patience.I would rather wait and get some beautiful minis.At least I know a range is coming which is much better than when I started this thread. :D ;D
Mark
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(http://b.radikal.ru/b19/1810/9f/82699079ee07.jpg)
(http://c.radikal.ru/c04/1810/e6/ab9cefae6759.jpg)
(http://b.radikal.ru/b22/1810/12/e9e1c6a5d222.jpg)
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Really superb :-* :-* :-* :o
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Cuprum,
What are they ? Cossacks? militia?,Siberians?
Mark
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With a spear - Siberian Tatar. Archer - Mansi warrior.
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Thank you. o_o ;D :D lol
Mark
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Excellent sculpts! :-*
A very talented sculptor!
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Undoubtedly.
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Are there any Russian language books with illustrations of native Siberian warriors and weapons one can recommend? I have the large format book with color illustrations of ancient Siberian warriors and weapons, but was curious about what else is out there.
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Here for example:
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Looks like some great books. :)
Mark
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Here are more images of the soldiers of the Siberian Khanate:
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How is this book? Does it have many illustrations of Siberian warriors?
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There are many illustrations in this book, but there are only five reconstructions of warriors (one of them in color is on the cover), and you have almost all seen them in this topic.
Add a book:
(http://www.kitabhona.org.ua/libwar_hist/bobrov.jpg)
Leonid A. Bobrov, July S. Khudjakov - ARMAMENT AND TACTICS OF THE NOMADS OF CENTRAL ASIA AND SOUTHERN SIBERIA DURING THE LATE MEDIEVAL AND EARLY MODERN AGES (15th — first half of the 18th century A.D.)
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Here for example:
What's that shoulder-mounted shield around the archer in the last image for? It's really wild!
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This is a book about Chukchi warriors. Since the Chukchi had big problems with metal, they used wooden and bone armor. And what you see is a fairly common variety.
By the way, the Chukchi had a reputation of highly skilled and ferocious warriors. All the neighboring nations suffered greatly from them aggression and the Russians had big problems in order to conquer these territories.
https://yandex.ru/images/search?text=%D0%94%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%B8%20%D1%87%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B9
In fact, this armor performs the function of a regular shield.
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Thank you for the information! Where might one be able to find a copy of Bobrov's book on Central Asia and South Siberia?
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This is already a rarity. Just buy "second hands" if you're lucky. I only have an electronic copy.
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I have also found and downloaded an electronic copy this evening. I don't read Russian, but I'm glad to have it as a visual reference for the variety of illustrations of warriors and weapons. I was lucky to purchase an English translation of the Chukchi Warfare book. It is an excellent reference.
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This is a book about Chukchi warriors. Since the Chukchi had big problems with metal, they used wooden and bone armor. And what you see is a fairly common variety.
By the way, the Chukchi had a reputation of highly skilled and ferocious warriors. All the neighboring nations suffered greatly from them aggression and the Russians had big problems in order to conquer these territories.
https://yandex.ru/images/search?text=%D0%94%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%85%D0%B8%20%D1%87%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B9
In fact, this armor performs the function of a regular shield.
Very interesting! Thanks once again, Cuprum!
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I need to learn how to read Russian!
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(http://a.radikal.ru/a00/1811/77/1d44da1fb77a.jpg)
(http://d.radikal.ru/d21/1811/cf/0ebc55d990c9.jpg)
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Really good , and very dynamic poses !
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Really good , and very dynamic poses !
:-* :-* :-*
Especially the rider and the horse are exceptional sculpts!
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This range seems to be going well.Hopefully next year we will have some in our hands. o_o lol ;D :D
Mark
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Very nice! Each model seems very unique and specific. Any thought about how we will be able to assemble them into units for gaming? We will probably need multiples of like function, eg. 8 Chukchi archers, etc.
Cheers
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I think the army should be formed on the basis of the rules adopted for the game. Since I myself do not have the opportunity to play, then those who are well acquainted with gaming technology need to adapt the rules and create scenarios. I am ready to provide historical facts known to me for this work. Share your ideas, gentlemen!)))
The Chukchi were not part of the forces opposing Yermak. There were something similar to them warriors: the Khanty, Mansi and Selkup. But these are Finno-Ugric peoples. Related Hungarians, Finns, Estonians.
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Fair enough. My point is that unless there are a few variants of each type of figure, it will be impossible to actually play games with them. They will just be very nice historical studies for painting.
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Nothing new lately.I guesswe have to wait a while longer which is good for me as I have to build up fuunds as I would liketo have one large order than many small ones since they are so far away.
Mark
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Do not worry - the work continues.
(http://d.radikal.ru/d03/1811/1c/40ab0a41d2c4.jpg)
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Wow :o Superb Cuprum :-*
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When will I be able to send you lots of money in return for these beauties...? :-*
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+1
Definitely a wow!
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Unfortunately all I'm seeing is the dreaded white cross. :-[
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Boat and figures look great. :D
Mark
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Work on the production of casting molds has begun. If there are no unpleasant surprises, the first figures from the line will appear by the New Year.
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It's a very good new Cuprum !
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Also the conquest of Siberia)))
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=113535.0
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those Figures look great.
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A bit off topic, but some wonderful color photos here of indigenous modern Siberians in traditional dress, some of which is probably not much different than it was 500 years ago
https://mymodernmet.com/alexander-khimunshin-indigenous-people-siberia/?fbclid=IwAR0JrIE3wzUfKesQYzhQXv-7SM9566Kx3Sig--WxpcR5NZbsdIxZW7UOLlg
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My friend, this is a photo of the peoples of Siberia, to which Yermak did not reach. They were joined later.
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Still inspirational in my opinion Disregard it if you dont find it interesting. I guess the name of this thread must be misleading too, eh?
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Very beautiful clothing.I wonder if these people are descendants of much larger populations.
Mark
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Some interest? https://www.planetfigure.com/threads/streltsij-uniforms-17th-century.120836/
Mark
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The 16th century streltsi are little like the 17th century streltsi. Just as the European musketeer of the 16th century is a little like the European musketeer of the 17th century. In addition, there are a lot of errors on your link. For example streltsi reversed and soldiers of "soldiers regiments". In particular, in the regiments of streltsi there were no pikemen.
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I don't know.I guess somebody didn't do their homework. :o What do you think of this guy (pic),is he accurate? Looks good either way.
Mark
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A nice strelts figure of the 17th century. The 16th century Sagittarius did not have a bandolier, did not use an ax-berdysh.
Well, there are some nuances in the cut of clothes.
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Anything new going on?
Mark
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(http://a.radikal.ru/a27/1902/ec/93183024938e.jpg)
Ready casting figures.
Unfortunately, not everything goes as planned. Complicated figures for molding and casting. But the work continues ;)
Sorry for the quality of the photo - I'm a bad photographer and no one else is around ::)
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They look pretty good to me.Give us an update from time to time.
Mark
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Count me in Cuprum ;)
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Don't you have a Yermak figure cast also?
Mark
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While the turn has not reached it. Although the mold is ready.
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Nice researchs and project!
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Ataman Yermak and his Cossacks are available for purchase.
http://siberia-miniatures.ru/index.php?cPath=41_39_86_212
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/ErmakDSCN0004_(5).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/ErmakDSCN0004_(9).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/ErmakDSCN0004_(2).JPG)
(http://c.radikal.ru/c41/1904/eb/98f4cc0a99ac.jpg)
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Wow !
It's superb :-*
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I'll be ordering tonight. :D
Mark
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Are any of the boats ready, perhaps in another section?
Mark
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Unfortunately, there is a problem with boats. The mold turned out to be larger than my casting chamber. So the boats will be later.
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Ok,just checking.I know you will keep us posted. We need a crew anyway.
Mark
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Order placed. These are great! Probably need a few more melee poses to make a unit feel less repetitive?
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Yes I ordered also but only 1 set of each.Hopefully my next order will be bigger but I will eagerly wait for these first ones. ;D :D
Mark
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Thanks for your orders, guys. I will try to send all the parcels on Monday.
The continuation of the series will depend on the interest in it. Now I am preparing molds for casting Siberian warriors. And trying to figure out how I cast the boat)))
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Good luck to you and to us! lol lol
Mark
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Looking forward to the Siberians. :D
Mark
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Received my figures today.They are very nice and I am looking forward to getting some Siberians.I hope there is enough interest in this range to keep it going as you can never have too many Cossacks and Siberians!
Mark
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Received my figures! Very, very nice. I take it the spear-wielding figures need to have their hands drilled to insert the spears? Definitely excited for the Siberians. Hope there’s enough interest to promote at least a few more packs on each side or these will likely be just for painting rather than gaming.
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And don't forget the boats! :D
Mark
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As with others - thanks for starting this thread and adding to it. It is very interesting (they first gained my interest when I read about the reindeer scouts in the "Siberian Tribes" DBR lists).
(http://d.radikal.ru/d42/1809/5d/16c9ce0129c9.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a02/1809/99/ab092a44b7e5.jpg)
(http://a.radikal.ru/a04/1809/cc/c6acb6675c07.jpg)
Is someone able to provide a translation to the text on these images?
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1. Khanty people warrior in plate armor.
2. Archer Selkup people. The chest is protected by a whale bone cuirass. Armed with a bow and knife.
3. Warrior Mansi people. Unusual detail - a hollowed wooden quiver.
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It's amazing how all these different peoples each developed different items for combat,each unique in their own way.
Mark
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Thanks cuprum. Much appreciated.
In this picture (and many others online), a Khanty-Mansi foot archer is depicted as the Selkup archer is depicted in the image above (with whale bone breast plate, etc):
(http://arkaim.co/uploads/gallery/album_73/gallery_3_73_305673.jpg)
Do the Selkup (which were until the 1930s called Ostyak-Samoyeds (остя́ко-самое́ды)) share a culture with the Khanty?
I assume this is the case with the Khanty and the Mansi as many search results are for "Khanty-Mansi".
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Thanks for your orders, guys. I will try to send all the parcels on Monday.
The continuation of the series will depend on the interest in it. Now I am preparing molds for casting Siberian warriors. And trying to figure out how I cast the boat)))
Trust me: once you have the Siberian warriors, orders will increase. It's easier to sell miniatures when you have two sides than when you have just one.
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Agreed. What Siberian warriors have you sculpted (sorry new to the thread)?
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Khanty, Mansi and Selkups are very close cultures. Their differences are reduced to different totems, some elements of appearance (hairstyles, patterns on clothes, jewelry, etc.), some differences in language. I think that on the gaming table we will not see any difference.
The boats are already being cast, the forms for the Siberian warriors are ready. Soon all this will be on sale.
Of the Siberian warriors will be cast - Tatars (cavalry) and the Khanty-Mansi-Selkup as foot archers. View the branch first - all photos of the figures were posted earlier.
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Thanks and I found the greens - they look great.
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BTW here is a great book for those who do not speak russian (such as me)
Armstrong, T. (1975). Yeremak's Campaign in Siberia: A Selection of Documents Translated from the Russian. John Benjamins Publishing Company: Boston
Or maybe we could learn Russian...
(https://i.imgur.com/dnBV25J.png)
(Hope nobody gets offended for the Simpson's pic. I myself have been interested in learning Russian for almost my entire life, but things and people aaaalways put in the way :()
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Thanks and I found the greens - they look great.
Do you have the link that you mention to the greens please - Tatar cavalry has me acting like Pavlov's puppy!
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Sure. Photos from this thread of Siberian Tartar cavalry (second link has dismounted):
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111232.msg1407729#msg1407729
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111232.msg1410824#msg1410824
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111232.msg1414728#msg1414728
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Would you have an update please on how you are getting on casting the boat?
Thanks in advance
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Boat hulls are cast. It remains to cast oars and rowers.
I hope both boats and Tatars will go on sale early next week.
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Sounds good. ;D :D
Mark
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Wha Hey!!!!! Now that IS exciting… fantastic.
Kind regards
Chris
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Boat hulls are cast. It remains to cast oars and rowers.
I hope both boats and Tatars will go on sale early next week.
I know next week is nt far away - but you know what collectors are like - do you have any photos of the Tatars already?
Thanks in advance and kind regards
Chris
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Unfortunately, there is no photo yet - the work is still underway. But you can see a photo of master models in this thread posted earlier.
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Many thanks - I have just found them - those Tatars look very interesting indeed!
Kind regards
Chris
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Any hope of Tatars and a boat next week (for once I have the money ready and waiting!)?
Thanks in advance!
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The boat and the Tatars are cast, but I have another setback. The mast casting mold on the boat was damaged and cannot be repaired. It takes another week (taking into account the work on current orders) o make it again and casting.
Tatars will be on sale on Sunday or Monday.
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I will buy them all ;D
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Many thanks for the update - and good luck with all the difficulties.
(Could it be the work of a Siberian Shaman?! )
Kind regards
C
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I will ask my molder trainee if there are any shamans among his ancestors. But I think it's not magic - it's "curves" hands, "empty" head and a violation of temperature conditions :D
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Two Tatar riders, a dismounted Tatar and two warriors of Siberian tribes. More photos here:
http://siberia-miniatures.ru/index.php?cPath=41_39_86_215
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/SiberiaDSCN0004_(11).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/SiberiaDSCN0004_(15).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/SiberiaDSCN0004_(3).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/SiberiaDSCN0004_(36).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/SiberiaDSCN0004_(7).JPG)
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Good start on these.I'll wait to order until there is more as they have to come a long way to get to me.
Mark
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Hello again,
I was wondering if there was any news on the river navy?
Kind regards
Chris
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these are so tempting..every time I see that painting...And now these beautiful figures.
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Sorry - I missed your question.
Boat and crew available for purchase:
http://siberia-miniatures.ru/product_info.php?products_id=2845
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/Strug_DSCN9999_(8).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/Strug_DSCN9999_(5).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/Strug_DSCN9999_(4).JPG)
(http://siberia-miniatures.ru/siberia-minisimages/Strug_DSCN9999_(1).JPG)
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Class! Superb!
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Boat and crew really look good.
Mark
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Hope to order the Siberians and Cossack boat soon.
Mark
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What would the sail look like?
Mark
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I did not foresee a sail. It will be easy to make it yourself. You just need a little green stuff.
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Any updates?
Mark
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Alas. Interest in the topic was too weak.
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Shame but it happens.
Mark
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Hello !
It's really a shame!
Alas the universe of the historical figurine remains very focused on certain periods (we do not count the ranges WWII, ACW, ECW, Normans / Vikings / Saxons ...) while many others are barely scratched or just not addressed at all!
It's really a shame!
You had at least the merit to try: it's all your honor!
I wish you the best for the future!
And I will continue to buy your novelties on the RCW and the Cossacks and Tatars ...
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Alas the universe of the historical figurine remains very focused on certain periods (we do not count the ranges WWII, ACW, ECW, Normans / Vikings / Saxons ...) while many others are barely scratched or just not addressed at all!
Yeah, the problem is simple. One has to make one's money back on a range. Or at least break even if you're doing it for the love of the 'period'.
It's a real problem but I guess there are ways of gauging interest in a particular range.
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Cuprum,
What happened to your website?
Mark
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http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=120072.0
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Thanks for the support guys!
I plan to develop this topic gradually, but now it is unlikely to be fast, since there is no reason to even count on cost recovery.
I have a problem with the store, but I hope it does not last long.
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Good luck with everything.
Mark
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Oooh I had not noticed this very interesting thread! :o
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I have just been reading Anna Reid's book The Shaman's Coat, which juxtaposes the history of initial Russian contact with the post-Perestroika situation of various Siberian peoples, so this thread is rather interesting.
@cuprum, which other manufacturers' Cossacks might be mixed-in with yours? Also, it would seem that sieges of Cossack blockhouses were fairly common - what did the blockhouses look like?
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I do not have figures from other manufacturers for this period of history, so I cannot compare them. I can only say that this is a classic size of 28 mm (from the feet to the eyes of the figure standing calmly - 28 mm).
Russian Ostrog (blockhouse) is a typical Russian log small fortress. They looked like this:
(http://i.pinimg.com/originals/99/3f/f1/993ff1887cb5d2b320eb6064376c2719.jpg)
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/masterok/50816465/3887789/3887789_original.jpg)
(http://bravo-voronezh.ru/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Uezd_800_Voronezhskiy-Kreml---rublenyy-gorod---nachala-XVII-veka.jpg)
The height of the wall is 4-6 meters.
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Very interesting line drawings. A couple are almost naive in style in terms of the perspective (that's not a criticism; sometimes more information can be gleaned by abstraction). 8)
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I do not have figures from other manufacturers for this period of history, so I cannot compare them. I can only say that this is a classic size of 28 mm (from the feet to the eyes of the figure standing calmly - 28 mm).
Russian Ostrog (blockhouse) is a typical Russian log small fortress. They looked like this:
The height of the wall is 4-6 meters.
Thank you, cuprum! In the middle picture, what would that pylon have been for? I don't see any wells or woodpiles, either, although I suppose that they could have melted snow in the winter.
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I find it difficult to say what it is. Something not rational. There is a mention that a trade fair took place here. Perhaps this building is related to entertainment.
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Ok, I jumped into this boat (curiously enough, i bought all the references except the cannon and... the boat). I feel this piece of history is worth playing it, and hope my small contribution would help comrade cuprum a bit to recover his investment in the rank.
BTW, I have read a khan managed to get his hand into what was supposed to be Yermak's armour long after his death. Did it survive into modern times or did it fade into history?
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Ok, I jumped into this boat (curiously enough, i bought all the references except the cannon and... the boat). I feel this piece of history is worth playing it, and hope my small contribution would help cuprum a bit to recover his investment in the rank.
Same here. I just had to get them. :-*
Next time together with the novelties boat and cannon. ;-)
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Thanks for your orders guys. Now interest in this line of figurines has grown, so I'm thinking about continuing this series ...
The history of Yermak's chain mail is very interesting. It was made for the Russian military leader, Prince Pyotr Shuisky. The prince died in battle in 1564, and his armor was deposited in the Moscow tsarist arsenal. After the successful conquests of Ermak, he sent a Cossack embassy to Moscow, offering these lands to the Russian tsar. Ivan the Terrible awarded Ermak and the Cossacks. Among the gifts was chain mail, which previously belonged to Shuisky. Ermak used this chain mail and, according to available information, it was she who caused his death. After a sudden night attack by the Siberians on Yermak's detachment, who had spent the night on a river island, Yermak tried to escape by sailing to the boat, but drowned under the weight of his armor.
The chain mail was removed by the Siberians from the corpse of Ermak and for a long time passed from hand to hand of various local tribal leaders.
It was later acquired by the Russian authorities and is now exhibited as an exhibit in the Armory Chamber of the Moscow Kremlin (Museum in the Kremlin).
(http://stihi.ru/pics/2016/10/17/1590.jpg)
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Now that's weird. At that time plate armour was commonly used throughout Europe and chainmail had been discarded (I guess it's because it's almost useless against shots, but also because of the melee weapons' evolution). The only ones using chainmail at the time were Spanish conquistadores in America (I guess chainmail was "on sale" in Europe so the empoverished would-be conquistadores bought them massively). Did plate never become popular in Russia or did the cossacks use it for the same reasons conquistadores did?
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In Russia, solid metal armor has never been popular. Russian warriors had to fight against very different adversaries - with European armies in the west and with Asian nomads to Orient. Large masses of light steppe cavalry are a very mobile enemy, using mainly a distant weapon in battle - a bow, and avoiding contact combat until they reach their complete superiority. Accordingly, in Russia, relatively light armor was widespread, which made it possible to fight on an equal footing with nomadic horsemen and well protected from arrows. Russian chain mail was of high quality and was very popular among the same nomadic peoples. In addition, if necessary, the chain mail could be reinforced with additional overhead armor. Also widely used was "bakhterets" - armor with steel metal plates woven into chain mail. Often, two chain mail could be worn in battle, one on top of the other.
By the end of the 16th century, chain mail in the European theater of war began to be used much less often due to the widespread use of firearms, but when conducting a battle against Asian archers, such protection was not neglected. In the case of Yermak's Siberian campaign, when the Cossacks at any moment could be bombarded from the shore or fall into the water, chain mail was the optimal defense.
(http://alternathistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/3.Behterets-tsarya-Dmitriya-Mihailovicha.jpg)
(http://www.etoretro.ru/data/media/4761/14939212600f3.jpg)
(http://gladiator-tula.ru/components/com_jshopping/files/img_products/ARM-018-01.jpg)
Look - at any time you can change the "weight" of your armor if necessary, depending on which enemy you need to fight with.
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https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/934997047710597120
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPnG2XEVAAAFqH5?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Albazin
https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2016/11/09/the-sieges-of-albazin-1685-1689/
The Siege of Albazin.
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These events took place about a hundred years later than Ermak's campaign. The history of the conquest of Siberia lasted a long time and is full of many little-known battles between Russians and various peoples. Including China and the Dzungars, whose armies were quite advanced at that time.
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These events took place about a hundred years later than Ermak's campaign. The history of the conquest of Siberia lasted a long time and is full of many little-known battles between Russians and various peoples. Including China and the Dzungars, whose armies were quite advanced at that time.
Yes, I realize that it was far later. But would the Russians have worn the same type of clothes?
This was before Peter the Great's reforms. I am wondering if the same figures and rules could be used for the Battles on the Amur.
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This is an interesting question. Later, the Russians in Siberia had a very motley mixture of Russians and local garments and armor. To a significant extent, what was convenient in local conditions was adopted from local peoples.
This is how Russian servicemen looked in Eastern Siberia in the 17th century.
(http://d.radikal.ru/d23/2010/31/2af629d97e06.jpg)
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Well, certainly the same weapons.
Are there illustrations of summer clothing?
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(http://d.radikal.ru/d06/2011/46/4cd9a2b5a850.jpg)
The Dzungar Khan, the Russian ambassador and the Tibetan bodyguard of the Dzungar Khan are watching the battle of the 1st Dzungar-Qin War (1690-97)
The summer clothes of the Russians, of course, remained in many respects similar to the clothes of the Yermak period, but the widespread use of local samples of armor in any case significantly changed the appearance of the warrior. My figurines can be used to reflect the appearance of Russian soldiers during this period, but, for authenticity, they would have to be diluted with a large number of figures in Siberian armor, as well as equip them with bows, which also returned to use among the Siberian Cossacks.
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IDK, Cuprum.
The two Asians look like.... err, Asians. But the Russian is your standard 16th - 17th Century Muscovite aristocrat in his appearance. Chain mail. Fur-trimmed cap. Lace-trimmed jacket. You could go with any Russian figure from your range or TAG and get something close.
Anyway, I'm learning so much stuff and I thank you. I wasn't even aware these wars took place. And yesterday, I looked up the Dzungars on Wiki and learned about them!
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Do not worry - in Russia they do not know much more about these wars as well as abroad))) Forgotten battles ... But still, there are studies, there are many of them, but, alas, they are not very popular.
Somewhere here a video was already uploaded with fragments of a new Russian TV series in which the Dzungars attack the Russian ostrog, already in the time of Peter 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6f_x_pLYmo
The Russian in the picture is not an aristocrat. This is a Cossack chieftain, which is clearly indicated by the manner of wearing a fur coat, which is lowered from one shoulder. And an earring in the ear (this means that this is the youngest or only son in the family, and it is undesirable to send him on very dangerous missions). Only the Cossacks did this.
Yes, this Cossack officer is dressed only in Russian-style clothes, but since he is a Russian ambassador to the Dzungars, he maximally emphasizes his Russian identity in appearance. In fact, the Russians made extensive use of local armor and weapons during this period. Russia was very far away, the delivery of resources and supplies was a big problem and it was necessary to rely heavily on local resources.
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I saw some of the figures including the boat on ebay if anybody is interested.
Mark