Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: Gribb on November 21, 2018, 04:15:00 PM
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Steve Barber has recently finished sculpting these German Hussars. There will be provided separate arms for lance, sword and carbine(2 variants of each). As well as separate heads and pieces for the sword & rifle scabbards.
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46492464_1394336497368648_5271169454930132992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=902d14a0f44080290a8d423c19a1e8fa&oe=5C6AC005)
(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46508116_1394336514035313_6930223585168457728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_ht=scontent-arn2-1.xx&oh=1581f464fad2bc913864d0e61336fbc1&oe=5C70BFED)
https://www.facebook.com/SteveBarberModels/photos/pcb.1394336764035288/1394336597368638/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/SteveBarberModels/photos/pcb.1394336764035288/1394336597368638/?type=3&theater)
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Lovely work from Steve.
All the best,
Helen
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Very nice. German cavalry, including Husaren, always carried a lance even if not in hand. It would be nice if the figures are supplied with separate lances that can be mounted in the separate arm or carried on the trooper's back.
Robert
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Really cool, Gribb has written that there will be separate arms with lance. I hope that heads with bushy mustaches are also there.
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Would also be useful to provide stahlhelm head as well. There were still some mounted cavalry right up to the Armistice (and beyond, on the Eastern front).
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Really cool, Gribb has written that there will be separate arms with lance. I hope that heads with bushy mustaches are also there.
There will be separate arms with sword, lance and carbine. 2 variants of each to avoid a too generic look.
The lances will be provided separate from the arm unlike the gwm variants.
Steve will add bushy mustaches and some with beards on the clean shaven heads before they are released. To maximize the variety.
In total there will be about 8 heads with and without facial hair.
(https://i.imgur.com/b8LqJT2.jpg)
^It would not be a proper Hussar unit without facial hair like these guys were sporting.
Would also be useful to provide stahlhelm head as well. There were still some mounted cavalry right up to the Armistice (and beyond, on the Eastern front).
That is pretty interesting and I will mention it to him. Thanks for the input.
If there is a lot of interest for this it would be great to have others join in on commissioning them. There are plans for dismounted versions as well.
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As a possible reference, here are a few photos of German cavalry in the stahlhelm. The second photo is rather interesting in that it shows a machinegun team of hussars with their Bergmann MG15 n.a. (an air-cooled weapon that was a stop-gap after the Somme and loss of large numbers of Madsen light machineguns, and before arrival of the MG 08/15. The Bergmann was mostly issued to troops on the Eastern Front and to the Asia Korps in Palestine) :
http://www.museumsyndicate.com/item.php?item=56905
https://i.redd.it/5fqqmqs44p911.jpg
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/152857056765_/German-Officers-with-side-arms-and-Iron-Crosses.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/B5MAFK/2-g55-w1-1918-27-e-german-cavalry-adavnaces-wwi-1918-history-world-B5MAFK.jpg
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And here is a photo of hussars with the full cap cover - the Totenkopf (skull and crossbones) was only worn by the Leib-Husaren regiments:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7581/15832880791_4cd5c86160_b.jpg)
Robert
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@Metternich Thanks for the information. Cool pictures that would be useful.
And here is a photo of hussars with the full cap cover - the Totenkopf (skull and crossbones) was only worn by the Leib-Husaren regiments:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7581/15832880791_4cd5c86160_b.jpg)
Robert
Head Versions of these Hussars are also scheduled along. We decided to go with the Leib-Husaren first.
Did they wear only full cloth cover? Or could there be a mix of partial and full cover for a head pack?
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I would strongly doubt they would have deployed in a combat role without the cap cover (that would be like using the pickelhaube helmet w/o its cover). Just not "tactical." The only WW 1 photos I have seen with the uncovered busby were for troops in a photographers studio, or on parade, or very senior officers (e.g. General von Mackensen). Below are a few more photos of hussars (the first is a very often republished photo) - all with the busbys covered (except, of course, the officer in stahlhelm !)
https://soclas.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/german-hussars-crossing-into-serbia-1915.jpg
https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/6ebcc356fc9ce8b397453fa5065b58eb/ere-hisl034-ec834-h.jpg
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2942/15172033738_a9192b75a0_b.jpg
http://www.hellenicaworld.com/History/OsborneComp/en/images/i_b_009b.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0ykAAOSwevdaNsGT/s-l300.jpg
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Thanks for the photos. Full cloth cover it is then.
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I agree with Metternich. Even the Leib-Husaren would have worn the full cap cover when on campaign. The Totenkopf would have made a handsome target otherwise ;)
Robert
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I agree with Metternich. Even the Leib-Husaren would have worn the full cap cover when on campaign. The Totenkopf would have made a handsome target otherwise ;)
Robert
Most likely they did. And a fine target indeed. But I do not think its going overboard with the totenkopf visible. It gives them a distinict and easy recognizible appearance on the table.
Same as manufacturers don't sculpt 1914 French with unbuttoned greatcoats and puttes. Despite from what I've read they sensibly did everything they could to cover up the red trousers. And as this photo shows:
(https://i.imgur.com/T2GX4kg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/P8EQj67.png)
Personally I think such a small detail is less severe than ww1 sculpts out there. With infantry and cavalry in calm, strolling poses as if on a military manovers in peace time. Where are all the sculpts taking cover from the enemy fire? ;D
I see Your point. But with a full cover head pack gamers can decide which option they want to go for.
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I agree with your point about figures looking good versus being historically accurate. Having the Totenkopf visible will certainly add something to the on-table ambience. Wouldn't put me off buying them.
Robert
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Hussars in a skirmish pose would be useful in the first place. Dismounted as an outpost or scout. The only thing that bothers me is the attacking pose.
Think that there were no noteworthy cavalry attacks in the First World War.
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I really like the (uncovered) heads. Would these be useful also for the wars 1864-71?
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I think that in the wars of 1864, 1866 und 1870 their headgear was higher and a little bigger. Similar to the pickelhaube. Both became smaller and more practicable over time.
Hmmm, pickelhaube ...practicable ? ;)
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Hussars in a skirmish pose would be useful in the first place. Dismounted as an outpost or scout. The only thing that bothers me is the attacking pose.
Think that there were no noteworthy cavalry attacks in the First World War.
Battle of Haelen, Mons and Galicia/Gnila Lipa had cavalry actions that come to mind.
With the carbine arms they can also be set up as scouting force on the hurry.
Dismounted Hussars will be next.
Update: Hopefully the busbys in full cover will also be released along with the new sculpts.
I really like the (uncovered) heads. Would these be useful also for the wars 1864-71?
I don't think they covered up the colorful cloth flap like this version in those years.
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And here is a photo of hussars with the full cap cover - the Totenkopf (skull and crossbones) was only worn by the Leib-Husaren regiments:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7581/15832880791_4cd5c86160_b.jpg)
Robert
just to say that 17 hussars (Brunswick) also wore the Totenkopf
both Leibhusaren regiments fought at Halen in 1914 where the German cavalry lost badly against the Belgian cavalry
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Thanks cdr.
Robert
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Thanks for all the useful input in this thread, its been really helpful.
The carbine arms are going to be sculpted soon. 2 variants are being planned and here are some of the suggestions we thought of so far:
1.
(https://i.imgur.com/YuioDCo.jpg)
2.
(https://i.imgur.com/Lw1NaZ7.png)
3.
(https://i.imgur.com/4dkKtG9.jpg)
4.
(https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/forts/mckavett/images/redoubtable.jpg)
What do you think? Would love to hear Your input before Steve starts sculpting them.
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I agree with picture 2 and 4. Picture 1 gave me too much cowboy style ;). The firing of a rifle in full gallop was certainly not standard, right? ???
Thanks Gripp for listing the battles. I would have expected on the eastern front with larger cavalry attacks. That's why I like this forum. :)
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Thanks for the input. 2 and 4 do seem like good options.
Firing in gallop probably did probably not happen as a rule but maybe :D If doing scouting and coming along the enemy you won't always get the time to dismount. And thouch certainly more effective than lance or sword to harass the opposing side when charging if not that accurate ;D
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Historically, the carbine was not fired from the mounted position. It was designed for dismounted use, so holding it ready to dismount would be more accurate (but less impressive on table ;-). In the event that contact was made during scouting, either the troop would back off or would charge with lance or sword, depending on how close the terrain was. The options depended on whether it was important to preserve operational secrecy or not. There were occasions when a troop or troopers would dismount and engage with carbines when scouting.
Robert
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@monk2002uk: Thanks for the information. Well, I think even the pose holding the carbine ready makes looks good too :)
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Sorry if I wasn't clear. Husaren holding carbines ready to dismount will look very good. Just not as good as riding and firing :-)
Robert
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I fully agree with Monk. Very doubtful that firing from the saddle was done often enough to devote a figure pose to it !
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I agree, it will be most senible to keep the carbine at the ready to dismount and return fire.
I have discussed with Steve if we should mainly stick to sword and lance variants.
And add the carbine arms as a accessory pack later if there is demand for it.
Like how many would like to see carbine arms to this pose? Or would it be too obscure?
Look forward to hear Your opinions. Much appreciated.
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It would actually be great if all weapons were seperate with a hand cast on the weapon. The angle of the weapons could then be altered giving a much more vivid impression on the tabletop ;)
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@Traveller
That would be fiddly, but would indeed bring a lot of variation for sure :D
On carbine arms: Most likely these will be disregarded at least for the time being. Maybe added later as a conversion pack. And the Hussars will be launched with the sword and lance variants.
And rather aim for dismounted Hussars armed with carbines since all cavalry did fire on foot not mounted.
As good as it may have looked it seem the right way to go.