Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Licantropo on December 09, 2018, 12:48:55 AM
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Hi all, what tanks can i use if i want to make a vichy french force? I cannot find information about that, any can help? Thanks!!!
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In which theatre? In Europe they were stripped back to being an internal security force, and not trusted enough for the good stuff. Elsewhere they would have had what was available to the Pre-War French forces.
I'm no authority though, and can't comment on specifics. I doubt that they would have had much access to German or foreign captured equipment. Rather if they had many vehicles it would have likely been outdated by the time the Allies showed up in Europe (I'm picturing something similar to second line anti-partisan forces, who'd usually have older light tanks and armoured cars).
At least from what I'd read about French tank development during the Vichy period, they weren't trusted enough to go anywhere near contemporary German vehicles, but that may have been different in the field under the circumstances.
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This is something that I would like to know as well, and I hope Lou sees this soon ;) and gives some good details.
Seems to me that the Renault FT was fairly common in the Levant and Algeria, perhaps the R35 as well. It will depend on which particular theatre one looks at.
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Vichy Tank Battalions in the Levant and North Africa were equipped with FT or R35 tanks. The various Chasseur d'Afrique units boasted two squadrons (iirc) of more modern types; Char D1, H35, H39 and S35. These were typically of one type in a squadron, although different squadrons in the same regiment might operate different types.
AFAIK no FCM, AMC or AMR went out of France and definitely no Char B.
Lou will probably provide more detailed info, possibly even the registration plate numbers. ;)
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Lou will probably provide more detailed info, possibly even the registration plate numbers. ;)
lol
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You could use the below armoured cars in addition to the above mentioned tanks in North Africa and the Levant....
Laffly 80AM armoured car
Panhard 165/175 armoured car
Laffly 50am armoured car
You didn't mention a scale but these are available in 1/56 from Mad Bob Miniatures...
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In Syria/ Lebanon your most common, running, item would be the Renault R-35. There were two battalions worth at the start of Operation Exporter.
In Algeria there were a few dozen D-1s and a handful of Hotchkiss H-35. Morocco had a battalion’s worth of R-35.
In Indochina the French had a handful of FT-17, few of which were operational, olus they had a few Renault UE carriers.
After the Failed Anglo-French attack on Dakar, Vichy sent 22 Somua S-35s to guard the colony.
No tanks in Madagascar.
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Wow, thanks all for the fast answer and take u time to do it, i apreciate a lot!!! :-*
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http://chars-francais.net/2015/index.php has plenty of photos (and a lot of the Char B1bis matricules (registration numbers)!). It's French language but easy enough to negotiate.
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I’ve got a fair bit of Vichy armour going on here:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=52964.1365
Mid project, which has stalled somewhat over the last few weeks, thanks to real life...
Can’t vouch that it’s all completely historically accurate of course ;)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/35/577-290918115944-356562495.jpeg)
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From a source I don't remember re: later North Africa in Tunisia:
The Free French travelling with the British 8th Army only had scratch armored forces built up from cast-offs, but the very sizable Vichy French Armee d'Afrique forces in Tunisia and Algeria managed to store away a fair number of tanks, which re-appeared to fight the Germans and Italians during the Tunisian campaign. The most common tanks early in the campaign were Renault D1s, with a fair few Laffly armored cars. By December 1942 / January 1943 as many as 23 S35 tanks had made it to the Tunisian front from Senegal. In March/April 1943 one company of 5e RCA were re-equipped with Valentines (I keep trying to confirm, I THINK they were Valentine IIIs), and by April/May the first steps were taken in re-equipping the French forces with US provided armor.
By the closing phases of the Tunisian campaign the GBF (Groupement Blinde Francais) operated an eclectic mix including:
- A squadron of Valentines
- A squadron of S35s
- A squadron (from 9th GACA) with M10 TDs
- A company of Stuarts
It seems the last action of the S35s was against Pz IVG's on Cape Bon on May 9, 1943.
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This is a good resource - I was wondering the same thing recently when I came across some French Foreign Legion figures I had picked up. Would they have had tanks in the Pacific theater?
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in late 1940 : ( quite unchanged till Torch )
Maroc :
Casablanca : 1er Regiment Chasseurs d'Afrique : 45 tanks : R35, H35 & H39 - 18 AMD laffly 50AM
Algérie :
12eme Chasseurs d'Afrique 23 Tanks Somua S35
Oran : 2eme Regiment Chasseurs d'Afrique : 45 tanks D1 - 18 AMD laffly 50AM
Alger : 5eme Regiment Chasseurs d'Afrique : 45 tanks D1 - 9 AMD laffly 50AM - 9 schneider P16
Constantine : 3eme Regiment Chasseurs d'Afrique : 45 (?) tanks FT18 & R35 - 18 Panhard 165/175
Tunisie
4éme regiment Chasseurs d'Afrique : Laffly Vincenne Laffly White tanks D2
the 23 somua unit was sent in Morocco december 1940, and sent to Dakkar in june 1941 . back in Morocco in december 1942 , then in Algeria ...
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This is a good resource - I was wondering the same thing recently when I came across some French Foreign Legion figures I had picked up. Would they have had tanks in the Pacific theater?
Not quite the Pacific but the French in Indochina had some FT17s and UE carriers, including a locally produced variant with a casemate mounted MG. Things were considerably more varied after WWII.
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you can add Laffly 50 and locally produced armoured cars with 3 MMG in China
in Indochina 1940 , 6 FT tanks were still usables, some Citroen Kegresse P104 , some Laffly 50 ...
the UE carriers with casemate mounted MMG were a Chinese command to Renault, who never reached China . landing in Indochina and were used by the French Army
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In the Levant, the front line tanks were all R35s, plus some FT-17s pulled out of storage for the last ditch defense of Beirut.
Best available TO&E resources so far are the MicroMark lists:
https://www.wargamevault.com/browse.php?keywords=vichy&manufacturers_id=3426&x=0&y=0&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto=
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Ordre de bataille au 8 juin 1941 - VICHY
Armée de l'air
Groupes de Chasse
G.C. III/6 Dewoitine 520 : 25 Rayack (Liban)
G.C. I/7 Morane 406 : 12 Alep-Nerab (Syrie) + 6 Estabel (Liban)
Groupes de Bombardement
G.B. I/39 Glenn-Martin 167 F : 10 Rayack (Liban) + 2 Madjaloun (Liban)
E.B. 3/39 Bloch MB 200 : 6 Madjaloun (Liban)
Groupes de Reconnaissance / Observation
G.R. II/39 Potez 63.11 : 12 Damas-Mezzé (Syrie)
G.A.O. 583 Potez 63.11 : 5 Alep-Nerab (Syrie)
E.O. 592 Potez 25TOE : 6 Rayack (Lebanon)
E.O. 593 Potez 25TOE : 6 Alep-Nerab (Syrie)
E.O. 594 Potez 25TOE : 6 Damas-Mezzé (Syrie)
E.O. 595 Potez 25TOE : 6 Palmyre (Syrie)
E.O. 596 Potez 25TOE : 4 Deir ez-Zor (Syrie)
Escadrilles de l'Aéronautique Navale
Esc. 19S Loire 130 : 5 Tripoli (Liban)
Marine
2 DD (contre-torpilleurs) : Valmy , Guepard ( Beyrouth )
3 S/M : Souffleur , Caïman , Marsouin ( Beyrouth )
1 aviso : Elan
Armée de Terre
Infanterie
-6e REI (Homs) ( 4bns+3 batteries d'artillerie de la légion )
-24e RMIC (Tripoli )(3bns)
-22e RTA (Liban )(3bns)
-29e RTA (Liban )(3bns)
-16e RTT (Syrie du sud )(3bns)
-17e RTS (Syrie du sud )(3bns)
-1e RTM ( Syrie ) ( uniquement le Ve Bn ))
- 3 Bns de Chasseurs Libanais ( Liban )
- 8 Bns du Levant (Syrie )
Insigne des RTM
Cavalerie
-4e RST (Liban )
-1e RSM (Syrie )
-8e RSA (Liban )
-50 escadrons de cavalerie irrégulière (druzes , libanais , kurdes...) regroupés en 4 groupes d'escadrons de ligne , 6 groupes d'escadrons Druzes et 8 escadrons Circassiens/Tcherkesses) (tous en syrie)
-3 Cies méharistes ( Syrie )
Blindés
-6e RCA ( 45 R35 ) 2 esc chars + 2 esc automitrailleuses ( Liban )
-7e RCA ( 45 R35 ) 2 esc chars + 2 esc automitrailleuses ( Syrie )
Artillerie
- RAC Levant ( Liban )
- 1e RAM ( Syrie )
- Groupe d'Alepp ( Syrie )
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Thanks for this info, Lou! :)
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Hi,
I'm currently working on a homebrew French Forces in Africa list for FoW so this has ben really helpful
Cheers