Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: italwars on January 05, 2019, 12:15:43 AM
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Hello
My next project, among too much others, will be to game some Falklands/Malvinas land battles..I already have quite a few 20mm minis and some ready made scenarios. I intend to try with Rapid Fire modern version. I ve begun to collect and read books also a pair of passably good Argentinian sources at least to counterbalance the only English language one that I read so far which is “Razor Edge” from Hugh Bicheno..a very good book as concern Maps, battle history but quite vague on exact TOEs and unacceptable from the useless despitful of every thing which is Argentina even the political analysis is unacceptable in the way as its expressed...anyway the maps and many details are good...I m interested exclusively in land battles and I would appreciate some suggestions of further readings...im looking for books with data, detailed maps and ideas to scenarios, real feelings and in general specific sources for good wargame ideas ...I saw that they are quite a few on Paras and Marines actions snd only one , but rated in Amazon as less interesting, for the final battle carried by the Guards which is among my favourite units ...thanks
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There is always going to be some bias on a recent war.
I have never heard of the book you mentioned.
There are a lot of British books on the war, there is even a Haynes Manual on it (Ł6 from The Works).
There are always the Osprey books.
For an American view, GDW had a scenario book covering the Falklands designed for their Air, Sea and Land games (I can only remember the last two: Harpoon and Combined Arms).
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Bicheno is a tad rubbish... turgid popular history...
Martin Middlebrook, despite writing in English has covered the Argentinian side in detail. Also Malvinas: The Argentine Perspective of the Falkland's Conflict my Major Leonardo Arcadio Zarza, published by the US SAMS (School of Advanced Military Studies), you should be able to find it in PDF for free from the US Army.
I strongly recommend:
Amphibious Assault Falklands by Michael Clapp and Southby Taylor. It is very interesting because it look at the convoluted command structure and the issues with it.
no Picnic by Julian Thompson, excellent on the land side of the thing. Julian is quite even handed on the Argentines, much better than other British authors.
One Hundred Days by Sandy Woodward. Sandy Woodward has a particular style. I only corresponded with him by e-mail and I can agree with the comments on his style, but he was a very knowledgeable RN officer.
Nick van der Bijil book on the 5th Infantry Brigade is also worth a look.
Sharkey Ward 'Sea Harriers over the Falkands' is useful... but is Sharkey...
The Admirality Trilogy supplement for Harpoon 4 'South Atlantic War II' is available in PDF from wargame vault and it is an excellent source with plenty od data. Extremely recommended.
Disclaimer: I know you are interested in the land battles, but... it was a combined operations from start to finish and you cannot understand the land battles if you do not look also at the naval (extremely important) and air (a bit less) aspects. As Julian and Mike cleraly say when they talk about the operation naval consideration were paramount in the land plan because the troops had to be landed, supplied, and supported from the sea (and no, despite what wargamers say, the 3rd Commando Brigade did not land at San Carlos because they did not have tracked landing vehicles, but for other considerations).
Disclaimer 2: General Thompson and Commodore Clapp are friends, I even wrote articles for Michael think thank in the past.
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Mark Adkin’s Goose Green is an intelligent, detailed and well presented study of the battle.
If you are interested in the naval aspect then David Brown’s Royal Navy and the Falklands War, whilst dated, is probably about as good as it gets.
Van der Bijl’s books are typically well written and IIRC he served in the Falklands.
The only book I would really not recommend is Jeremy Brown’s The South American War which purports to tell the story of regional attitudes at the time. A book so ill-informed, I was surprised it was marketed as history.
There is series of Osprey type titles published in Argentina, I’ve purchased one or two on various trips to Buenos Aires. IIRC there is at least one title on the ‘Malvinas War’. Caveat emptor, there are some serious tin-foil hat theories alive in Argentine views of the war.
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"The Battle for the Falklands" by Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins is a very good book.
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Just to echo previous posters, you can’t go wrong with Julian Thompson, Middlebrook, and Hastings for the ground war, and Woodward for the naval perspective.
Can’t comment on the others as I haven’t read their work.
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'Don't cry for me Sergeant-Major'.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Cry-Sergeant-Major-Jeremy-Hands/dp/0708823904/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1546778219&sr=1-1
Came out shortly after the war. Sadly now long out of print, but (expensively) available second-hand. The best squaddie's-eye view of events. I was in the middle of my own (mercifully short-lived) military career at the time, and knew plenty who went down there. Several said this book really captured it.
I must dig out my copy and re-read it... Somewhere in the loft... ::)
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"The Battle for the Falklands" by Max Hastings and Simon Jenkins is a very good book.
Julian was quite critical of Hastings, considering he do not enjoy his (Hastings') tendency to unsupported story telling and his fabrication... having one of the Brigade commanders being critical of the book was a sufficient reason to stay away with it. But it is just me... other people considers Hastings a sort of divine writer... lol
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I just found my copy of the Hastings/Jenkins book. I pobably have not read it for twenty five plus years.
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I will echo Juan’s suggestion, I enjoyed the Max Hastings book. Figure wise, if they are still around the Hotspur figures were wonderful and did both sides in depth.
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I just found my copy of the Hastings/Jenkins book. I pobably have not read it for twenty five plus years.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HymhLukw5G4/XDKHEfZNqKI/AAAAAAAAEl8/l1VOE8WyTswj5i1po7Ij_ueNMzsiZPVZQCLcBGAs/s1600/battleforthefalklands.png)
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Free with every copy of the Evening Standard? :D
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Free with every copy of the Evening Standard? :D
And rate “Excellent” by The Guardian. All bases covered.... ;D
Doug
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Thanks to everybody...very appreciated suggestions and reviews..Arrigo, Carlos, Ultra....in the meanwhile, except Hastings, i've ordered every book i find among those you described.. Van der Bijl’s book whose on line's reviews arent' very good plus the fact that the unbearable Bicheno (in my opinion an egocentric spy that betrayed his fellow Latin American Countrymen) refers continuosly to him has checked my wish to buy one of his books ...but Carlos said that it's good writer plus the fact that he wrote the only book on the Guards participation on the final battle. so maybe i'll buy also this source...Osprey type books published in Argentina could be interesting but i suspect that you can already find on dedicated sites all the colour plates..anyway i've contacts in Buenos Aires that find for me , in the Navy Bookshop, some good books..including an extemely detailed one, also if poorly edited, with diagrams and maps about the battles carried by Argentine Marines.. Arrigo ...it seem that you've got very important friends even among the top commanders :)...it must be great to talk about those events with such personalities!.. i agree that Naval and Air Wars must be studied to properly understand the following land battles...and i partially did..but my goal, is, at the moment, coarse and very naif..that is ..just to have some games with my 1:72 toys ..for what i read, untill now, from Argentinian sources ..it seems that Argentine Defense Force in Malvinas were 'nt at all prepared for a war and that every action or counteraction was based on vague, unrealistic or non existent orders or on amatorial study of some historical doctrines from the HQ top brass in Puerto Argentino...another thing that seem to be very difficult to reproduce on the wargame table will certainly be the night combat that greatly favoured the attackers and the presence of carefully layed Argentine minefields that, instead, resulted almost useless.
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When the Fighting is Over by Robert and John Lawrence deals with the Scots Guards on Tumbledown. It was the basis of the excellent made for TV film with Colin Firth (Tumbledown). It’s not a history and much of the book deals with his post-war rehabilitation struggle (Robert Lawrence was shot in the head atctge end of the battle) but it does give you a good sense of the nature of the battle from an eyewitness perspective.
Middlebrook is one of the few Anglo authors to have actively sought input from the Argentine side. IIRC he released a seconf edition updated with input.
I have Van der Bjil’s books on Aden and the Borneo revolt, not the Falklands and found they were both readable and reasonably well informed. He’s an ex Royal Marine int section type. I think he served with Rod Bell on the Falklands IIRC so he should be well placed.
If you want some mood setting and fancy watching a film or two, the above mentioned Tumbledown is well worth watching and from the other side of things Iluminados por el fuego is an Argentine film, again based on a personal memoir that deals with that perspective. It isn’t a great film butv t’s by no means a bad one and it does give a strong impression of the disconnect between the Argentine officer corps and their soldiery.
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Thanks for your suggestions..i'll take into accounts what you said...
I know the moving history of the Guardsman experience and his struggle trough some videos..i 'll certainly buy his book
i've also recently seen Illuminados por el fuego ...well it's certainly a sensible fiction...maybe a low budget moovie but we are talking of something very near and dramatic so i cannot expect an Hollywood type moovie of course..
While i find "an ungentleman act" that you probably also saw..quite dry
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As van der Bjil is concerned, I have not read his Falklands one, but I read the one on the Confrontation and it is excellent, plenty of gaming ideas and good maps.
Julian and Mike had always been very forthcoming with information, like how the beachhead ended up in San Carlos. We even gamed the campaign several year ago. Back in time also Admiral Woodward was quite helpful, even if got the impression he was more concerned in running his carrier force rather than in the whole operation. On the plus side he was an Harpoon player back in time! He also wrote the introduction to one of the edition. As Mike point's out in his book, the command situation was quite muddled. Bascially no one had even addressed the possibility of real conflict until the last second. When Julian took over 3rd Brigade he was told my the minister to not worry about landings, because he would have been administratively moved to Denmark in case of war. I think the only one with some real landing experience at the time was Nick Vaux, because he was a platoon commander in Suez back in 56...
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There are a couple of good books on both 2 and 3 Para
Two Para - Falklands: The Battalion at War
Falklands Gunner: A Day-by-Day Personal Account of the Royal Artillery in the Falklands War
With 3 Para to the Falklands
Green-Eyed Boys: 3 Para and the Battle for Mount Longdon
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Thanks for all those interesting commments/reviews...in the meanwhile i’ve already ordered and read J. Thompson “no picnic” very good and i really like his style of writing including humour..ordered and began to read Atkins and also ordered and waiting for Van der Bijl.. tempted also by Vaux and by the big “After the Battle” volume..among the suggestion also “not mentioned in the dispatches” and “green eyed boys”puzzle me..they had been described as controversial...the mentioned British author that used quite a few Argentinian source would be also interesting..while for the Argentinian side i’m tackling Joffre’s memoirs but it seem to be not an easy and cheap task to order from Argentina. I find also a pair of books on SAS activities in South Atlantic but could they be useful and reliable? I suspect that UK ‘s special forces missions still are and remain “top secret”
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But it is just me... other people considers Hastings a sort of divine writer... lol
No it's not just you, it's me too. ;)
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Ok 6 Mil i ll trust both yours and Arrigo’s comments..of which i use to appreciate his usual “outside voices”..and , even if very cheap and easy to find, il avoid to buy also Hasting’s book ;)
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No it's not just you, it's me too. ;)
glad to not be alone.
I have not read Nick Vaux's book, but I had a mail ecchange with him for an online article I wrote back in time, and he was a first rate chap.
Book on SAS are a mixed bag, some, I have been told, are good, some are fiction. When dealing with special forces there is always an element of trust you have to grant to the author, because a lot of what he is writing is not readily available. On the other hand there are two issues:
one, if he is a reliable author, why he is talking about classified stuff? Especially if he is a former operator... either he has been cleared (okay good source) or he is making it up... including his credentials (see the discussions on McNab, or on Captain Shelby Stanton for another army and another war).
two, parochial views. Very often there is a massive bias toward the 'my unit is the best' approach. every error is made by the big wigs, the conventionals, or someone else... I found few authors capable to resist the hagiography approach when dealing with special units. Blowing accomplishments out of proportion and always telling us that if given free rein the specials would have done even better.
For my thesis I have done plenty of research on MACV SOG in Laos. Even after 40 years the official sources (there is a lot og good stuff on it in MACV yearly command histories) are heavily redacted. Especially on detail like insertion method and contacts' detail. On the other hand the official material if a treasure trove on the effort to make a picture of enemy movements in Laos and to improve interdiction operations. On the other hand, popular histories, including the ones written by former members, are short on the big picture (and often biased), and rich on details... that are redacted on the official documents. That was 67-73, think about 1982... lol o_o