Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: ether_drake on March 10, 2019, 01:50:52 AM
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After years of obsession with the classical period I have jumped onto the Dark Ages bandwagon. After buying a bunch of Vikings in a bundle deal, I lost interest, consigned them to the lead pile (for now) before discovering the pathos and drama of the Late Roman period. Nothing like the collapse of an empire to fire my inspiration.
My first real project is to assemble a Late Roman/Arthurian British force for Dux Britanniarum. This forms a core that can be easily expanded for 6-point SAGA games with the addition of a few more figures.
I've just completed two units of Warriors for my army, the first fully finished figures for this project. I even gave them my first freehand shields, and what an enjoyable process that was.
Here are the desperate dozen ready to face the long war of attrition with the invading Saxons. The shield designs are derived from those of the Exculcatores iuniores Britanniciani in the Notitia Dignitatum. Lacking any suitable commercial transfers my only option was to paint my own. No regrets.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7896/47274779712_6d6bb7835f_k.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7806/33451497908_d516cc4c76_k.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7921/40362146153_8cd97fa3f9_k.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7888/47274779692_9b350d3e92_k.jpg)
More details on the shield design process are on the blog: https://etherdrakecave.blogspot.com/2019/03/exculcatores-iuniores-britanniciani.html (https://etherdrakecave.blogspot.com/2019/03/exculcatores-iuniores-britanniciani.html)
Next on the paint queue are my Elite, Nobles and Archers.
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Great first post! Nice work on the shield designs- very well done.
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Beautiful painting , especially the shields. 👍
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Super work and a very interesting period to game. :)
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Nice paint jobs. The shield designs are great. You'll enjoy playing Dux Brit, my mate and I are in the fourth year of the campaign after many a raid and battle. Hopefully I will conquer a province shortly.
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Great start! 8)
I have a similar project that is in its early stages.
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Lovely work :)
I think the hand painted shields you've done are better than transfers as they each have their own little individuality which transfers can't give 8)
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Thanks everyone.
I think the hand painted shields you've done are better than transfers as they each have their own little individuality which transfers can't give 8)
That's a very good point. Thanks. I considered adding some cuts to them but I rather like the comic book brightness they currently have.
Nice paint jobs. The shield designs are great. You'll enjoy playing Dux Brit, my mate and I are in the fourth year of the campaign after many a raid and battle. Hopefully I will conquer a province shortly.
My group had our first test game of Dux Brit last month. It was really fun and I hope that we stick with it. The test game made me realise that armies will generally grow quite slowly during the raiding stage of gaming and the numbers of figures are really quite manageable as a result. Has that been your experience?
Here are some pics from that trial play:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4905/46925008651_3a99e95a04_k.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7920/46925008511_906b84c756_k.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4885/39960263363_16ebd6f084_k.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4905/46925007041_bdbe691f46_k.jpg)
I have a similar project that is in its early stages.
Look forward to seeing it.
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Nice shot of the game.
My group had our first test game of Dux Brit last month. It was really fun and I hope that we stick with it. The test game made me realise that armies will generally grow quite slowly during the raiding stage of gaming and the numbers of figures are really quite manageable as a result. Has that been your experience?
Yes the numbers of figures grow quite slowly. Usually it takes a quite significant victory to gain a couple of figures and a very few times you are rewarded with an extra unit. As I said we have been playing for about 4 campaign years with around 20 raids and battles and my forces have grown by only a total of 3 units.
It make the initial outlay both in cost and painting very affordable and the small increases easy to manage.
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Cracking stuff 👍👍👍👍👍
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Nice shot of the game.
Yes the numbers of figures grow quite slowly. Usually it takes a quite significant victory to gain a couple of figures and a very few times you are rewarded with an extra unit. As I said we have been playing for about 4 campaign years with around 20 raids and battles and my forces have grown by only a total of 3 units.
It make the initial outlay both in cost and painting very affordable and the small increases easy to manage.
Unfortunately, I got a little excited and splurged on reinforcements a little too early! No matter, they'll find use for SAGA.
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Made a bit more progress on some Elites, additional Warriors, Archers and my Lords.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7877/47325533492_464b47a5cc_k.jpg)
I was going to leave the archers' tunics plain, but now I'm thinking they may look better with the decorative patches common to Late Roman tunics. Any thoughts?
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Some
Beautifully painted stuff here.
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Great work but I can’t deny I prefer Late Romans with the tunic insignia :)
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Can you play Dux Brit as a straight set of game rules as with Sharp Practice etc, or do they only work as a campaign system? (I’m not really one for campaigns which carry on from game to game to game ;))
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Some
Beautifully painted stuff here.
Cheers. Still WIP. Hopefully finished soon.
Great work but I can’t deny I prefer Late Romans with the tunic insignia :)
I'm going to have go at it. Just worried about mucking up the underlying paintjob :P
Can you play Dux Brit as a straight set of game rules as with Sharp Practice etc, or do they only work as a campaign system? (I’m not really one for campaigns which carry on from game to game to game ;))
You can certainly play one-off engagements with it. The bulk of the rules are for playing raids or battles. I've not played Sharp Practice, but combat and morale plays quite similar to Chain of Command. The activation system uses cards and is focused on command by your personalities.
The campaign system works around the raids/battles and is designed to be very very little work. The design objective was for all campaign notes to fit on a single sheet of paper.
Of course, campaign objectives will heighten the drama of any given raid or battle, but the outcome of any given game is designed to shift the balance of power only slightly rather than make it rapidly unfeasible for one side.
There's also been fan-made variants that adapt the rules for Vikings, Samurai, Franks v Late Romans, and even Middle-Earth.
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Nice painting - also one that likes the freehand shield designs.
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You're doing some fantastic brush work on those lads. Very impressed. Looking forward to seeing to completed warband/army.
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I'm going to have go at it. Just worried about mucking up the underlying paintjob :P
You’ll do a great Job 8)
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My Romano-British saw some action the other week with a Cattle Raid scenario. Once again, they were trounced by the Saxons. It must be because they're not fully painted and the Saxons are!
More seriously, Saxons are a tough force in Dux Britanniarum because they are all Warriors and Elite, no Levy. Whereas the Britons have three units of abysmal Levy.
While my Warriors distracted the bulk of the Saxons so my Levy could pursue the rustled cattle, I allowed my Warriors and Elites to be surrounded by the Saxon Elites and half their Warriors. While they held out well, they were ultimately crushed.
In hindsight I should have mounted more of a divide and rule approach using the narrow paths between the buildings to good effect to split up the Saxon battle line.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7852/46790234194_9014d4db67_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7889/46598607235_4fda9a5314_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7871/40548103823_cd46f8d959_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7920/47461302902_5cd2f7a778_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7867/46790233044_16787e6263_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7851/47461302532_cb4d3d43b1_k.jpg)
The devious Saxon tactic of lingering on the hill foiled the Levy's attempt to catch them twice.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7851/47461302422_6ab74bce1f_k.jpg)
Last stand of the Britons.
Next steps on the project: Finish off the highlights, shields and basing on the Elites, Bows, and Levy. Paint up a manuballista to field 6 points in SAGA.
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Really beautiful looking wee chaps - and great action shots of the game.
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Doing some nice paintwork there. Late Romans are very addictive and you can get carried away.
I really enjoy painting late Romans, mostly because of the variation of sheilds and tunics I could achieve. I had to stop at 16 units as I had built the entire eastern legions and a lot of allied troops too.
my collection
http://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/search/label/Late%20Roman (http://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/search/label/Late%20Roman)
cheers
Matt
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Really beautiful looking wee chaps - and great action shots of the game.
Cheers. They're coming along nicely.
Doing some nice paintwork there. Late Romans are very addictive and you can get carried away.
I really enjoy painting late Romans, mostly because of the variation of sheilds and tunics I could achieve. I had to stop at 16 units as I had built the entire eastern legions and a lot of allied troops too.
You're right. With all the detail in the Notitia there's certainly a temptation to "collect them all" and you've done remarkable work. Impressed you've freehanded all the shields, but I find that's more fun.
It had crossed my mind to have replaceable shields with magnets but alas, laziness struck.
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Do you believe the magnets would be strong enough to hold white metal shields??
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Very nice. We find that the British Levy can do quite well if formed defensively in shield walls. The Saxons often come to grief if they attack a shield wall. Not so useful on the attack.
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Do you believe the magnets would be strong enough to hold white metal shields??
It'd be worth a try. As it is with superglue I've usually had to put another segment besides the handgrip in contact with the main figure for stability.
Very nice. We find that the British Levy can do quite well if formed defensively in shield walls. The Saxons often come to grief if they attack a shield wall. Not so useful on the attack.
Good point. They can't give as good as they get but they can take a beating. And it's less costly in terms of morale to lose them than my Warriors and Elites. They would have been a better speedbump for the Saxon elites. At least then my opponent would be throwing pearls after peasant swine.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33756588428_108ec94047_k.jpg)
Arthur and his knights rally around their banner.
After months of painting my Elites and Arthur are done. I even managed to do my first tin foil banner with a transfer from LBMS. It was well worth it, especially after stabbing myself on its spear multiple times throughout this project!
The figures are all Saxon Miniatures (now Warlord-owned), apart from Footsore's Lancelot on the far right. He's awaiting inspiration for a suitable shield design. I'd like to use a large oval shield for him but it's a tight fit compared to a medium round shield.
More pictures of the team on the blog: https://etherdrakecave.blogspot.com/2019/04/arthur-and-his-knights-assemble.html (https://etherdrakecave.blogspot.com/2019/04/arthur-and-his-knights-assemble.html)
The Saxon Miniatures are from the Winter King range sculpted by Colin Patten, providing lots of choices for Knights of the Round Table. I like their poses and kit. My only complaint would be about the casting quality of their faces. The detail isn't as crisp as Footsore faces. However, I'm very happy with their Arthur as Footsore lacks a suitably heroic Arthur on foot.
Being influenced by the Bernard Cornwell books I was all set to make my Arthur pagan. But a desire to wrap up this lot (batch painted in a group of 21 minis) led me to use a transfer from LBMS. I thought it'd be a nice tribute to Geoffrey of Monmouth's description of Arthur's shield bearing the Virgin Mary. He still bears the white cloak from Cornwell, though I couldn't settle on a better colour than black for his helmet plume. I'm open to suggestions (I did consider ochre as I read it was common in Late Roman times, but I need something rare for a Lord).
I painted this group in common colours, mainly red, white and blue, varying the location to give them both uniformity and individuality. The white and blues would tie them together with the previously painted Warriors, whilst the red - especially the cloaks - would set them apart.
Arthur and Lancelet, being Lords, had purple mixed into their scheme and used grey-white rather than canvas white for elements of their costume.
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The figures are all Saxon Miniatures (now Warlord-owned)... ...The Saxon Miniatures are from the Winter King range sculpted by Colin Patten, providing lots of choices for Knights of the Round Table. I like their poses and kit. My only complaint would be about the casting quality of their faces. The detail isn't as crisp as Footsore faces. However, I'm very happy with their Arthur as Footsore lacks a suitably heroic Arthur on foot.
The banner looks great. You've done a nice job on these - considering.
I completely agree with you about this range. I have all the Footsore Arthurian / Late Roman / early Saxon figures, but I was seduced by a few additional packs of the Saxon Miniatures figures when Colin Patten brought them out - including these Arthurian 'knights'. But they're a classic example of figures which look pretty good from a distance and once painted up, but when you actually get your hands on the raw castings they are disappointing. The casting is terrible (don't know if it will be better now that Warlord own the range - I got mine when they first came out). They have a filthy amount of flash, prominent mould lines, including, as you say, right down the middle of delicately detailed faces and ornate helmets - impossible to carve away without losing detail. There is also an ugly accretion of surplus metal clag underneath scabbards etc. The dynamic poses and feel for the period flavour are to die for. But there are aspects of the sculpting, characteristic of Colin Patten's output, that don't bear close inspection - like the weirdly stunty forearms, and cloaks that instead of flowing naturally, are oddly flat and two dimensional - I remember these features of the sculptor's style now from my Vendel (as was) border reivers, and earlier Gripping Beast stuff.
I'm going to paint a few of these, as I've laboriously cleaned them up now, but will probably move the rest on... ::)
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The casting is terrible (don't know if it will be better now that Warlord own the range - I got mine when they first came out). They have a filthy amount of flash, prominent mould lines, including, as you say, right down the middle of delicately detailed faces and ornate helmets - impossible to carve away without losing detail. There is also an ugly accretion of surplus metal clag underneath scabbards etc. The dynamic poses and feel for the period flavour are to die for. But there are aspects of the sculpting, characteristic of Colin Patten's output, that don't bear close inspection - like the weirdly stunty forearms, and cloaks that instead of flowing naturally, are oddly flat and two dimensional
I got these from Warlord once they had taken over the line. The casting issues are particularly noticeable on the faces. Sometimes there were odd bits that I wasn't sure were flash, moustache or nose. The eyes were also poorly defined in comparison to Footsore - Bill Thornhill somehow manages to sculpt the damn eyebags!
That said, once painted up and at wargaming distance they look perfectly good, even if there's the odd stunted arm. The armour details are good. The overall flow of the figures is pleasing and they bring some welcome variation from Colin Patten's usual dollies. A bit like Victrix, once you've seen a few poses in one period you've seen them all.
I got on alright with the cloaks, though exaggerated shading hid some of the sins you mentioned.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47665527181_6082e312df_k.jpg)
That said, I've probably painted all the figures from this range that I care to paint. Any future elites will be from Footsore. My Levy are actually Bondi from Saxon's Viking range, they're simple and beardy enough to pass for any generic Germanic for this period. But I'm not giving them much more than a glaze and wash.
I do hope Warlord finds it fit to bring out Patten's Thorfinstead terrain set at some point. Its a very handsome collection of terrain.
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I would have to wholeheartedly agree with the comments on the amount of flash and casting defects on the Saxon Arthurians. I was really excited about getting them after receiving some fairly nice Norman's from Saxon but on receiving them I was fairly disappointed. I've bought a few packs of other Saxon dark age stuff from Warlord and I'd say there hasn't been that much improvement in casting but it's a pitfall that I have encountered with regards to several other companies miniatures too. I guess if you look at pack prices of Saxon/Warlord dark ages they are pretty cheap compared to others so maybe it's a case of you get what you pay for?!
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Gobsmacked by your force so far. I'd be proud to push them around a table / command them in battle.
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Gobsmacked by your force so far. I'd be proud to push them around a table / command them in battle.
Thanks Nic. Having some fun with them so far.
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A sizable update here. Quite a bit of progress has been made.
18 Levy are complete. They'll serve as a complete starting force of Levy in Dux Brit and - with a manuballista - 2 points of Levy in my SAGA Roman army.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40803560923_4510342839_z.jpg)
More details on my shortcut painting approach on the blog: https://etherdrakecave.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-levy-assemble-merlin-grumbles.html (https://etherdrakecave.blogspot.com/2019/05/the-levy-assemble-merlin-grumbles.html)
Merlin is complete. A really fun mini to paint. I umm'd and ahh'd about how to paint the bear fur cloak but in the end I just went with a base of Vallejo G Camo Black-Brown and applied the triads from Foundry's Bay Brown and Chestnut, about six layers in all, with a final extreme highlight of Vallejo Dark Sand to establish contrast and mimic some bleaching/weathering.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47785166872_f797fd65ed_z.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40870623483_26c3e9f926_z.jpg)
UPDATE: Here's a pic from the rear of his cloak. It looks a little rough in part due to lighting, in part because my technique could stand to be refined. Open to some suggestions on how that could be done.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32916128157_7222568f1e_k.jpg)
I also finished another four Roman warriors with hand-painted shields. They bring my total warriors up to 16 and make them SAGA ready for a full 2 points. Love these Footsore minis.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46940214285_f9d8c4a1ed_z.jpg)
To do:
1. Finish highlighting 2 ballista crew
2. Finish highlighting the champion
3. Grout, grit and flock some sabot bases
4. Start on some cavalry!
This will give me a force with greater SAGA flexibility, to field the Gwyr Y Gogledd (Men of the North) option for Dux Brit, and about 32 points to try out Dux Bellorum.
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The rear side of Merlin's cloak looks very good to me.
I guess I'd try to emphasise the edges of the feathers a little more.
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The rear side of Merlin's cloak looks very good to me.
I guess I'd try to emphasise the edges of the feathers a little more.
Thanks.
Yeah, the Foundry Charcoal Black highlight was a little too dull. Maybe the base colour from one of the greys will work better for the feathers.
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UPDATE: I had a go at making my own magnetic sabot base out of MDF, magnetic sheet, filler and sand. Quite pleased with the results:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47860380141_da26858e27_k.jpg)
The magnet even passed the 180° inversion test:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47073623144_6de9704759_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47073623094_b8f82709b7_k.jpg)
The method I took is outlined on the blog: http://etherdrakecave.blogspot.com/2019/05/sabot-basing-method.html?m=1 (http://etherdrakecave.blogspot.com/2019/05/sabot-basing-method.html?m=1)
I did experiment putting two 3mm-wide RE magnets into the base to secure it to the magnetic sheet in my travel box but it barely held. This base will need another layer of magnetic sheet on the bottom to secure it for transport.
I'll probably order some laser cut bases from Warbases to achieve a lower base profile, i.e. the minis' bases can sit flush with the MDF rather than above it. A single layer of magnetic sheet can hold both the minis and the sabot in place.
I may revisit the basing style above for any irregular diorama composition as it suits an unorthodox placement.
I recently acquired some textured rolling pins from Green Stuff World so I may lay a cobblestone road or two on some bases.
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Great work. Your movement trays turned out excellent.
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Great work. Your movement trays turned out excellent.
Thanks. Trying out some pre-cut ones from Warbases soon.
UPDATE: Finished the crew for my manuballista for my SAGA Late Romans. Took an educated guess that units from the more Romanised Saxon Shore may have had access to one, so the hand-painted shield reflects a possible design from the Secunda Brittanica. All in all a very nice mini from Gripping Beast which was easy and fun to paint up.
If I ever get round to expanding the army for non-skirmish play I may add the manuballistae from Stronghold Terrain and Foundry.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48030776158_43ff73a5bf_z.jpg)
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It's been two months since my last update, but I'm back with some major progress. Eight Romano-British cavalry from Footsore to bolster my forces.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488804986_b4386aceff_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488804926_fd1dbc4d7f_k.jpg)
They'll serve as Hearthguard for SAGA, Noble/Ordinary cavalry for Dux Bellorum and mounted Men of the North for Dux Britanniarum. The latter role inspired me to draw on the early medieval Welsh poem Y Gododdin by Aneirin for inspiration for the colour scheme of the riders and their horses.
These are the first cavalry I've painted since some Gary Morley Silver Helms way back in 1998 :D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488967637_1c147ca4dc_z.jpg)
Back to history. There is a wealth of guidance for painters in the text of Y Gododdin which I've compiled below in case anyone is interested.
Y Gododdin
Costume Notes
Numbers in parentheses refer to stanza followed by line.
Broad lightweight shield (1:5)
Gold-bordered garments (1:8 )
Betorqued (many)
Mail-coat (3:7)
Lime-white shields (11:6)
Blaen took delight in gold and purple (16:6)
Gold-fretted shield (29:3)
Swift steeds and dark-blue war-gear and shields (33:2)
One who wore purple (67:4)
Ice-bright shields (71:13)
Horses
Roan (26:8 )
A trim long-legged grey (50:4)
Darker (brown) his saddle (50:6)
Grey steeds (58:11)
Red steeds (61:7)
White horses (74:5)
Dapple-grey steed (77:5)
What I finally settled on was a mashup of qualities drawn from the poem and Late Roman equipment. The "lime-white shields" were a must.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488968767_f42987b8b7_k.jpg)
I had to make sure they didn't look too bright, flat or bland. I used a base coat of Foundry Quagmire B (a brown grey) and several thin coats of Canvas C (an off white). I tried to approach them as if I was painting lime onto leather-faced shields.
To give them more depth I weathered them with a drybrush of Quagmire B and Rawhide A. Tried a couple of shield cuts but my brush hand wasn't steady enough to get really thin straight lines done so well.
I also incorporated some "gold-bordered garments".
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488804751_51047617bf_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488968857_d592f780a7_k.jpg)
To give them some elite flavour I pimped up their spears with the stripes that seem to be a Late Roman thing (anyone know the source of these?).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488804021_3aa1e3ab67_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488803811_91023c3690_k.jpg)
Part of the painting challenge here was to produce sufficient variety in the colour schemes so that multiples of the same model looked different. Among the eight figures there are only six different riders and three different horses. Luckily, the notes from the poem really gave me an excuse to crack open many of the pots in Foundry's Horse Paint set.
I'd only painted dapple greys and whites before this so it was a nice challenge to attempt blacks, chestnuts, bays and a roan. The roan is the toughest to pull off since they have equal amounts of interspersed white and coloured hairs, something which you can only impart impressionistically in paint. While blacks aren't mentioned specifically in Y Gododdin, other Welsh literature mentions Arthur riding a black mare so I wanted to get some practice in before I painted the dux bellorum.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488803746_39bc17647c_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488803311_acaaebf1bb_k.jpg)
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48488967682_28479764b4_k.jpg)
Next up on the workbench is Arthur himself with the costume colours drawn from a mix of Bernard Cornwell's trilogy and the Mabinogion. The latter provides some names of Arthur's arms. I'm still trying to figure out what motif to place on his shield which was called Wynebgwrthucher (face of the evening). Perhaps a Celtic moon or star.
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Nice project, looks great!
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Beautiful job!