Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: tuco74 on May 10, 2019, 12:23:35 PM
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I'm trying to find a uniform and flag resource for Confederate Zouaves, can anybody help?
I'm specifically trying to find information on 5th - 9th Louisiana (Hay's Brigade) in the Wilderness.
Ideally I don't want to paint the striped trousers lol if that's an option for at least one regiment and also want to know if all of the regiments carried both the Louisiana state flag and the Louisiana Tigers battle flag.
I'm also not clear if they wore the Zouave uniform by that stage, although I'm happy to represent them that way for a bit of variety and colour (and because I've got the Perry box that needs painting).
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As far as I know only like one company of that one regiment wore the famous Zouave uniforms anyway and on top of that they'd been replaced rather quickly after a few months in the field. Usually only the battleflag of the confederacy would have been carried. Very early on some others would be carried, but there was a specific order to have them sent back home and only carry the battle flag (which is why relatively many of the individual and state flags are still around, I heard).
So by 1864 the Zouave uniforms would have been gone and they'd wear the usual irregular regular dress of the Confederate soldier, same with state flags in the Confederate army. If you really want to depict the 9th Louisiana to look a bit different I think you could maybe use a Zouave head with the fez here and there? Bunch of guys wearing them for good luck or something? :D But yeah, in general by the battle of the wilderness the 9th Louisiana would look just like the rest of the Confederate army in the area.
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Yeah, I figured that would be the case from what I've read but I'm probably going to model them with the full Zouave uniform (and relevant flags) anyway for some variety. I've seen references to various Louisiana Zouave regiments though and I'm trying to find something that will confirm which ones in particular.
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I can't pretend to be any sort of expert, but I was wondering the same thing last year and from scouring the books and internet discussions, it seems that as has been said, the 'Tiger' Zouave uniform was only really worn by one (the 'Tiger Rifles') company of one regiment for the first year of the war. An officer's letter from May 1862 describes some members of the company still wearing the uniform, but that's it.
Note that the uniform jacket was BLUE, not brown. The brown apparently stems from a single faded example that had turned brown with age, but microscopic analysis (including fragments of uniforms found in Tiger Zouave graves) shows blue indigo dye.
There was also Coppens' 1st Louisiana Zouave Battalion, which wore a very similar uniform, though with red trousers instead of blue/white stripes - looking VERY much like the Union 5th New York 'Fire' Zouaves. The entire battalion was dressed this way, though again, the uniform only really lasted for the first year of the war.
As you say though, the Confederate Zouaves are fun to have, so what the hell... ;)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/921/jizWbJ.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/zj9UJy.jpg)
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I can't pretend to be any sort of expert, but I was wondering the same thing last year and from scouring the books and internet discussions, it seems that as has been said, the 'Tiger' Zouave uniform was only really worn by one (the 'Tiger Rifles') company of one regiment for the first year of the war. An officer's letter from May 1862 describes some members of the company still wearing the uniform, but that's it.
Thanks, that's very useful - I think I'm going to include them in the full kit just for the hell of it and a splash of colour!
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I read somewhere that their trousers were made from bed ticking material, so a bit like this:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS59e9lw9zTatz_G2OzUB-MnxRqESUm7DdMSFlzqC6eOpnzFH8P)
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Yes, apparently in 'Wedgwood Blue' stripe - the same colour as Wedgwood blue & white pottery (Wedgwood Blue is also the colour of RAF shirts) - a medium-light blue.
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The jacket was blue but the dye rapidly faded to brown in sunlight, hence the drawings of the Tigers in brown jackets. The Confederates had trouble producing colorfast dyes. In mid 1864 they came up with a colorfast grey dye. It was fairly dark and likely contributed to the friendly fire incident at the Wilderness that badly wounded Longstreet and killed one of his division commanders.
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Yeah, now that we got the harsh reality out of the way... I gotta admit that I also did a whole "regiment" of Tiger Rifles Zouaves for my own brigade. :D
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2019_05/tigersNEU2.jpg.fc177a669becb14c7c0aaaa22b7624f8.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2019_05/tigersNEU1.jpg.92e48e01dd3a9b163e92fe69a08ce0bc.jpg)
Also note the two flags. :O
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Nice! They look remarkably similar to mine... Except a lot bigger and better, of course! :D
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"I'm specifically trying to find information on 5th - 9th Louisiana (Hay's Brigade) in the Wilderness." The 5th -9th LA were never Zouaves. For the wilderness they would have worn the standard Army of Northern Virginia issue late war uniforms; ie. British Army Blue Grey mostly with a smattering of jean cloth as well. (https://www.facebook.com/libertyrifles/photos/a.1767794983518092/2087455358218718/?type=3&theater&ifg=1)https://www.facebook.com/libertyrifles/photos/a.1767794983518092/2087455358218718/?type=3&theater&ifg=1 (https://www.facebook.com/libertyrifles/photos/a.1767794983518092/2087455358218718/?type=3&theater&ifg=1)Or This one: https://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=53263&d=1557370403 (https://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=53263&d=1557370403)
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You just had to kill the joy... ;)
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You just had to kill the joy... ;)
YEP...muahahahahahahaaaaaaaa...
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You just had to kill the joy... ;)
lol
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I'm going to have to paint stripey trousers aren't I?
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I'm going to have to paint stripey trousers aren't I?
You can always do Coppens' Zouaves - at least there was actually a full battalion of those. Blue jacket with red trim, red fez with blue tassel, light blue sash, red trousers and white gaiters. Paint up a Union command stand and they could see service for both sides.
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I'm going to have to paint stripey trousers aren't I?
Yes you are 😊
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Yes you are
:'( Although I have a book that illustrates some Confederate Zouaves with their uniform faded to brown with the red piping...I may cheat.
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Just go for the stripes...it will be fun! ;D
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Stripes! Might not be so hard after the first 50 figures lol
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I did in 15mm but before I knew the stripey trousers were made of Ticking so I missed the broad stripe narrow stripe effect. Maybe it would be easier to paint white on blue rather than the other way around.
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Just go for the stripes...it will be fun! ;D
Stripes! Might not be so hard after the first 50 figures lol
Paint stripes they said, it'll be fun they said...
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Just to add my three ha'pence worth: Tiger zouaves have been represented in a number of different ways:
Headgear - red zouave fez with light blue tassel and straw boater with a red ribbon round the crown.
Shirt - red and sometimes worn on its own.
Zouave jacket - brown and dark blue both represented and both with red trim.
Trousers - shown wearing two types; the traditional zouave style in the bed ticking material with gaiters and ordinary style brown trousers.
If you mix and match you could end up with a very colourful and unusual unit wearing all the styles that I have seen illustrated, which would certainly suit their 1862 appearance. They may well have appeared in the Wilderness, but only as part of the Peninsula campaign in Spring/early Summer 1862, but never let a too dogged approach to history get in the way of a good wargame (after all, how often do tabletop Napoleonics go to war in their parade finery.
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If you mix and match you could end up with a very colourful and unusual unit wearing all the styles that I have seen illustrated, which would certainly suit their 1862 appearance. They may well have appeared in the Wilderness, but only as part of the Peninsula campaign in Spring/early Summer 1862, but never let a too dogged approach to history get in the way of a good wargame (after all, how often do tabletop Napoleonics go to war in their parade finery.
Thanks, I like you're thinking and that reply was too comprehensive to let go unmentioned.
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Just remember guys,
we are playing with toy soldiers.
If it is close and look cool,
go with cool. ;D
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Paint stripes they said, it'll be fun they said...
Just keep telling yourself 'at least they didn't wear tartan'
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Just keep telling yourself 'at least they didn't wear tartan'
I'm not sure I'll ever have the confidence to paint tartan but I have a feeling there was at least one ACW (Union?) regiment that had it in their uniform.
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Yes, the New York Highlanders had tartan trews, but probably never wore them in action.
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Just been painting tartan trews on some Zulu War highland infantry.
Piece of cake ;)
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Just as an update I've decided to take the cowards way out and use my box of Zouaves for my planned Gettysburg Union force. Yay for red trousers and yah boo sucks to stripes.
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Yeah, now that we got the harsh reality out of the way... I gotta admit that I also did a whole "regiment" of Tiger Rifles Zouaves for my own brigade. :D
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2019_05/tigersNEU2.jpg.fc177a669becb14c7c0aaaa22b7624f8.jpg)
(https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2019_05/tigersNEU1.jpg.92e48e01dd3a9b163e92fe69a08ce0bc.jpg)
Also note the two flags. :O
Nice!