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Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: CommanderBaker on July 31, 2019, 01:21:25 PM

Title: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: CommanderBaker on July 31, 2019, 01:21:25 PM
I would like to reopen discussion on Warlord Games newest addition to the world of ancients wargaming, SPQR.

A new FAQ has been released and i believe it addresses some of the many questions people have been asking about the game. I don't yet own the rulebook but i am very interested in hearing what people think of the rule system or be linked to any after action reports.

Please keep in mind that this thread exists to discuss how the game plays, what armies people would like to try and what people have experienced so far. it is NOT a thread for debating the historical accuracy of the game. As a smaller scale game liberties have been taken to allow for players to use many different armies of the period. Please keep the discussions on topic.

https://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/SPQR-FAQ.pdf (https://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/SPQR-FAQ.pdf)

I have linked to the new FAQ here in this post.

EDIT: Fixed link to FAQ
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on July 31, 2019, 01:57:28 PM
Thanks for posting that. I have the rule book but have not yet tried a game.

Unfortunately, the link from Warlord seems to go to Facebook and require a log in. I am not on Facebook.

Can someone who has downloaded the FAQ, post it on here as a file?   ???

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 31, 2019, 02:13:51 PM
Thanks for posting that. I have the rule book but have not yet tried a game.

Unfortunately, the link from Warlord seems to go to Facebook and require a log in. I am not on Facebook.

Can someone who has downloaded the FAQ, post it on here as a file?   ???

Thanks in advance.
That may have been a wrong link, seems to be fixed now. Here's a direct link to the pdf via their website: https://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/SPQR-FAQ.pdf
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: CommanderBaker on July 31, 2019, 02:21:55 PM
That may have been a wrong link, seems to be fixed now. Here's a direct link to the pdf via their website: https://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/SPQR-FAQ.pdf

Awesome! I will update my post with that link.

Mad Lord, you'll have to let us know when you have a game. is the rulebook full of lovely terrain photos?
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on July 31, 2019, 03:46:55 PM
Coenus Scaldingus, thanks for that.   :)  Downloaded the FAQ now.

CommanderBaker, I'll post an AAR when I have my first go but I need to paint some figures first. Started on some Romans and Celtic Britons, plus a Victrix chariot.

Lots of good pictures in the book, photos and drawings, glad I bought it.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Ethelred the Almost Ready on August 01, 2019, 07:21:29 AM
It gets even better!  90 attacks - does that mean 90 dice????


"Gauls with Wild Charge and a Druid hit you with
90 attacks hitting on a 3, rerolling misses. The
Roman unit with shields forces a re roll of hits.
Do the Gauls get to re roll misses on this forced
reroll?"
"Page 3, a dice can only be re-rolled once. So, no."
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Arrigo on August 01, 2019, 12:42:15 PM
well,

while I am not one of these, there are people who swear by buckets of dice. It has a lot to do with design philosophy. Me... I am already working on a different approach to keep dice on reasonable numbers. Years ago in an article in ATO Magazine Lewis Pulsipher even argued it is a better way to solve combat (and Peter Perla from CNA is another one who likes BOD). Sadly the article failed to impress and gave me the idea that, despite designing Britannia, Pulsipher is someone I wish to avoid like the plague.

Said that, it is a specific case of a unit using several specific advantages, not the average.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: CommanderBaker on August 01, 2019, 02:41:54 PM
So to clarify for me as i don't have the rules, 90 dice would be a very unlikely scenario? A large group of barbarians all using all of their dice stacking benefits? 
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: pws on August 01, 2019, 02:45:46 PM
From the PDF: "Gauls with Wild Charge and a Druid hit you with 90 attacks hitting on a 3, rerolling misses."

90 - ninety - dices?
WHAT?????????? How is it even possibile in a skirmish game?
 lol lol lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Dr DeAth on August 01, 2019, 03:25:29 PM
It gets even better!  90 attacks - does that mean 90 dice????


"Gauls with Wild Charge and a Druid hit you with
90 attacks hitting on a 3, rerolling misses. The
Roman unit with shields forces a re roll of hits.
Do the Gauls get to re roll misses on this forced
reroll?"
"Page 3, a dice can only be re-rolled once. So, no."

That's going to get confusing.

Example:

As the Gaul, I roll 90 dice, hit with 60 and miss with 30, so I re-roll the 30 misses and manage to hit with 20 of the re-rolls for a total of 80 hits.

Now I have to re-roll my hits due to the Roman shields, but I've already re-rolled 30 of the dice (the ones that missed first time round) so does P3's 'only one re-roll' that mean that those 20 hits from the re-rolled dice aren't rerolled, and I just re-roll the other 60 dice that hit first time round?

I don't own the rules, but I'm curious.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Arrigo on August 01, 2019, 03:36:04 PM
no, the Romans force the reroll of hits. the FAQ makes sense only if you have looked at the rules.

Also I think the FAQ is misleading (IE: type it should have been 30 not 90...). Basically each gaul warrior rolls 2 D6 in close combat. Using the wild charge they may charge into an enemy unit (but straight ahead no deviation no blocking model, and at least 3" movement), they will get a 1 D6 per warrior bonus. So if your unit is of 10 warriors + druid, it will be 31 dice... okay a lot. The druid will allow to reroll the misses, but the roman will force to reroll the hits. Each player may force a die roll to be re-rolled only once.

So you reroll the initial misses and then the romans force you to reroll all the hits. It is not that bad, but a tad clunky. And the FAQ is not that clarifying either...


As I said I am finding way round this...


Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: CommanderBaker on August 01, 2019, 03:37:00 PM
Yeah I want to see a play through. I'm not planning on having that many models a side for when i play but whether it 30 dice or 90 i want to understand the methodology. i dont mind rolling a lot of dice.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Tim.w on August 01, 2019, 05:27:04 PM
Ordered the rules today. I've been patiently waitng for Clash of Spears but last I saw they are still in the pipeline until November, so thought I'd give these a go. I have an early Roman force to paint, which fits better with CoS, so had hoped for Early Rebuplic army list. I do have Caesarian though so not a problem. Also have some 20mm Greeks to paint, origionally meant for Men of Bronze but this may be more up my street. I'm a Bolt Action fan so have high hopes.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: CommanderBaker on August 01, 2019, 05:42:33 PM
I play Bolt Action, MESBG battle companies and Warlords of Erehwon. This is right up my alley in terms of unit size.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: zirrian on August 02, 2019, 12:40:33 PM
Sadly the FAQ still leaves tons of questions open.

I'm looking forward playing the game, but I'm afraid the houserules will be more than the actual rules.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Marine0846 on August 02, 2019, 03:07:26 PM
Found this on You Tube.
Lots of dice rolling.
I wanted to get excited about this game.
Now not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuhKDSmtsrI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JxTzDMLlFA
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: guitarheroandy on August 02, 2019, 03:26:19 PM
Ordered the rules today. I've been patiently waitng for Clash of Spears but last I saw they are still in the pipeline until November, so thought I'd give these a go. I have an early Roman force to paint, which fits better with CoS, so had hoped for Early Rebuplic army list. I do have Caesarian though so not a problem. Also have some 20mm Greeks to paint, origionally meant for Men of Bronze but this may be more up my street. I'm a Bolt Action fan so have high hopes.

I'm exactly the same - CoS is high on my list and my WIP 4th Century BC Romans will do nicely for that, but I looked at this and thought it might be fun. I've ordered the rulebook and will get the Caesarian Romans out to play.

Look, we all know the 'issues' about historicity and nobody wants to get this thread shut down like the last one was. We also have known for a while that it's a 'buckets of dice' game. Many of us won't like it for that reason. However, it doesn't bother me as I came from Warhammer Fantasy into historical gaming via WAB, so tons of dice is ok by me. I reckon it could be a cool 'pick up' game to take down the club on a Monday night - not many models, a few bits of scenery and a couple of hours harmless fun. I get the impression that it's a 'quick to learn' set of rules which is great for an ageing gamer like me whose brain cells don't work like they used to! I also reckon it'll be pretty easy to shoe-horn my early Romans and Samnites into it as well should the need strike me...
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: CommanderBaker on August 02, 2019, 04:11:59 PM
I look at this game from the perspective of wargaming in my area of the world. Wargaming here is 40K, and AoS mostly. Star Wars Legion has got some popularity, but historically its all Bolt Action, FoW and Team Yankee it feels like. Saga is just gaining some ground and getting people into dark ages/crusades, but there isn't much of an ancients presence.

This ruleset or one like it could help open some doors.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: mkultra99 on August 02, 2019, 07:15:34 PM
Yes.. obviously buckets of dice... and then re-rolling those buckets frequently. o_o

One thing not really talked about is how fast it plays... fast.. I mean fast. at 500 points an outcome will be had by turn 3, 4 at most, and clocking in at under an hour... possibly a lot less depending on players rules knowledge and familiarity with their warband.

My group has played it a handful of times.. and really want to like it.. but no carthanginians, and a few houserules will have to be implemented (even with the "FAQ") so we are putting on the 'wait and see' pile. We are going to give mortals gods a try this weekend.. really wish Clash of Spears was available. My vote was to go back to Warhammer Ancient Battles, but everyone has lost/sold their books long ago.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: guitarheroandy on August 02, 2019, 08:07:20 PM
I've been looking at some videos and reading some bits and pieces on the Facebook group, etc, and it seems that there's lots of scope for power gaming combinations, which puts me off. The 500pts war band size also looks very small and maybe doesn't really do the game justice, limiting things a tad. But I'm not gonna make judgements til I've played it...
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: jetengine on August 05, 2019, 12:29:30 PM
I've been looking at some videos and reading some bits and pieces on the Facebook group, etc, and it seems that there's lots of scope for power gaming combinations, which puts me off. The 500pts war band size also looks very small and maybe doesn't really do the game justice, limiting things a tad. But I'm not gonna make judgements til I've played it...

Just because you CAN powergame doesnt mean you SHOULD. Any game can suffer that.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: guitarheroandy on August 05, 2019, 02:18:31 PM
Just because you CAN powergame doesnt mean you SHOULD. Any game can suffer that.

Agreed! And I don't. However, I know a number of players who do and this set looks VERY easy to do that with. I am reminded of WAB when Fall of the West supplement came out. That year, most major UK WAB tournaments were won by players using the power game combinations that the army lists 'allowed' (Warlord Barbarian armies ruled the roost, even trashing Macedonian phalanx armies, which had hitherto been kick-ass). Now, I'm 100% certain that the supplement author and his play testers did not do any of the 'tricks' that ended up in those tourney winning armies in their test games, as when one didn't do those things, the supplement gave some truly superb games. It's just that it was SO easy to do IF one had the mind to do so. And LOTS of people did at the time!

The '30 Gauls plus Druid in a unit' combo in SPQR is already out there (92 attacks, hitting on 2+ with re-rolls, etc :o :o) and Roman players are already trying to 'tweak' their Caesarian Romans to handle that, with the result that their Roman war bands are looking decidedly not very Caesarian Roman as they become very missile-heavy to take the Gauls to manageable numbers prior to combat. Now, that's not a problem at all if that's what one enjoys, of course and if two likeminded players are going head-to-head on the SPQR arms-race and are happy with that, then that's all very fine and dandy.

I'm also sure that a few 'house-rule unit limitations' could make things decidedly less goofy for such occasions, but most importantly, designing great scenarios (there are loads in the book, some of which look pretty cool) will be the key to this game being a success, I think.
I still think it could be a lot of fun as a club-night participation game, especially with larger forces than the standard 500pts (it apparently up-scales well to 1000pts and beyond, which would give  good evening length game) I'm already thinking 1000-1500pts, 2-3 players per side, each controlling approx 500pts, no more than 20 models per unit... (even that would still allow the 20 Gauls + Druid 60 attacks hitting on 2+ with re-rolls!)
 
I've not given up on it yet by a long shot.  ;)
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: jetengine on August 05, 2019, 03:00:06 PM
I think honestly it falls back on the "Dont be an asshole"  rule. If your opponent rocks up with cheese you just pack up and walk. When he/she asks why its very simple "Your not interested in a fun game for both of us so why should I waste my time ?"
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Neldoreth on August 05, 2019, 08:48:21 PM
I think honestly it falls back on the "Dont be an asshole"  rule. If your opponent rocks up with cheese you just pack up and walk. When he/she asks why its very simple "Your not interested in a fun game for both of us so why should I waste my time ?"

I think the issue really arises in tournament play. If you're playing with your buddy then of course it's fine, but if you want to meet new people and play new enemies, then tournaments are arguably the best place for that. Many tournament players build armies that help them win, and it's tough to expect them not to.

It appears to be a skirmish format, but the fight is very much a mass-unit type of fight: once the units close into combat, they stay in a big unit and die as a big unit.  The video shows it taking 40 minutes for a few small combats to resolve, turn-after-turn of die rolling. That's a lot for a skirmish game.

Thanks
n
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Tokhuah on August 05, 2019, 10:45:00 PM
I have several variations of Macedonia lists that range from 18-25 models.  In every configuration there are no more than 13 models in a single unit.  The most dice I will ever toss at once is mid 20's.  Am I concerned about hordes of unskilled minions tossing dozens of dice in melee?  No, because I have plenty of elite Cavalry to run down naked Gauls who will die screaming.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mark M Down on August 10, 2019, 07:22:30 PM
I have been looking forward to playing some games with this system. It reminds me a lot of the old Warhammer Ancients. I have got together an army of Britons. If you want to see more you can check out my blog. Here are some of my slingers. The figures are plastic and are made from a combination of Warlord Games bodies, Victrix heads and Gripping Beast dark age slings. I have also been reading the latest adventures of Macro and Cato in the rather good Simon Scarrow books and I thought this system would rather lend itself to playing them on the tabletop. I have worked out some talents that I think will work well for them. But I am happy to hear other people’s thoughts.
The link to my blog is:
https://marctgames.wordpress.com/2019/08/10/spqr/
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Comsquare on August 10, 2019, 07:36:00 PM
Nice  :)

Where does the druid come from?
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on August 11, 2019, 07:54:20 AM
Well, I watched yesterday a game of SPQR in a local shop. It was a demo, therefore it was low on models. Rules were easy to pick, especially for gamers used to play GW's Age of Sigmar and LOTR rules. The chaps playing had fun and one of them bought the starter set right after finishing the game.

I wasn't excited though. I have not doubt that it might be a fun game, particularly for gamers that like to roll a lot of dices. It's engaging and visually attractive. Another plus is that the chaps at Warlord have taken in mind their potential 40-50s buyers and the layout of the book avoids those fancy, illustrated, backgrounds that made reading the text an actual pain for those of us who have tired eyes! (GW I am looking to you! Your last Necromunda book is illegible for anyone without 20/20 vision!)

My problem is that I wasn't sure if I was looking at a game of Ancients or a game of Fantasy. You could replace Gauls with Orks and nobody would notice the difference. I mean, there is nothing in the game that reminds me of something even vaguely "historical".  Maybe that's good and has been done on purpose by Warlord's designers, to attract into historicals a player base that is into Fantasy (a bit like what they did with Bolt Action, or the lads at Battlefront with Flames of War). If that is their goal, I think they are in the good path. The two guys I saw playing, and their friends, were engaged and clearly enjoying themselves. I was the only Old Grognard there, and the only one that wasn't thrilled. If Warlord support the game, I think they have a potential hit in their hands.

To me? Well, paraphrasing Bosquet: it looks fun but it's not historical wargaming.

Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mark M Down on August 11, 2019, 08:16:13 AM
The Druid was a free model I got from Wargames Illustrated at Salute back in 2018.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Whitwort Stormbringer on August 12, 2019, 03:09:13 PM
Curious to know what folks think some of the required house rules will be? I just got the book and, having read through the rules, they seem straightforward enough, if not particularly innovative.

With regards to powergaming, in this and any other system, I think it just comes down to stating your preferences up front, which is something gamers tend to be bad about. Nothing wrong with wanting to play an min-maxed list if that's what's fun for you, just let your opponent know before hand. Same for casual fun, historically accurate, etc. etc. Better to just say "hey, what kind of game are you after?" or "I like competitive games between optimized armies" beforehand than to play a game and be grumpy about it afterwards.

On an unrelated note, how are people finding the SPQR resin minis? The bonus goat sacrifice model that came with the book is a nice sculpt (nicer than the painted photos suggested IMO), but the material seems very bendy to me...
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mad Lord Snapcase on August 12, 2019, 03:33:49 PM
Quote
On an unrelated note, how are people finding the SPQR resin minis? The bonus goat sacrifice model that came with the book is a nice sculpt (nicer than the painted photos suggested IMO), but the material seems very bendy to me...

It is a nice sculpt, feels bendy but paints up OK, I think.

(https://i.imgur.com/udNbDNG.jpg)
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mark M Down on August 12, 2019, 05:38:11 PM
The resin figures seem quite nice. The detail is good. You are supposed to be able to paint straight onto the figure without an undercoat. However, I undercoated mine. I did not spend ages painting it. Just a base coat with a highlight. The figure was quite flexible and light. I feel it is unlikely to break if dropped.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: jcspqr on August 12, 2019, 09:17:32 PM
The figures look nice.  The rules look like they have absolutely no tactical nuance or anything that is designed to make this an ancients game as opposed to any other dice rolling exercise.  Might as well play Risk.

Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: peleset on August 13, 2019, 07:47:25 AM
Thank the Gods he's holding a knife!
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Johnp4000 on August 13, 2019, 05:24:53 PM
The figures look nice.  The rules look like they have absolutely no tactical nuance or anything that is designed to make this an ancients game as opposed to any other dice rolling exercise.  Might as well play Risk.

I think you could apply this comment to many of the current rush of small unit/ low figure count games, Lion Rampant is hardly historical  but still produces a reasonable game. I have noticed with the Vloggers on youtube the rules are being given a much more favourable response.Although the way they are trying to learn the game by playing with Maxed out warbands is producing some very dull looking games. To anyone who has actually played the game, can it be expanded and improved by using more points?

One thing I noticed is that Warlord is now producing two sets of Legionaries, the SPQR set, 12 figures for £15 while still selling the HC set, 24 figures for £20. are they the same figures?
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Whitwort Stormbringer on August 13, 2019, 05:47:46 PM
One thing I noticed is that Warlord is now producing two sets of Legionaries, the SPQR set, 12 figures for £15 while still selling the HC set, 24 figures for £20. are they the same figures?

As far as I can tell, yes.

Other than model count & price, the only difference appears to be that the SPQR set includes a unit card...
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: jcspqr on August 13, 2019, 05:55:15 PM
My comment above is probably a bit harsh, but I remain disappointed with the current genre of "small, simple" rules.  The small part I get as we don't always have time for a big game.  The simple part though I think has been taken past its useful extreme.  I would think that with all the time, money (and presumably research) that we put into collecting and painting a new army, we would want the rules to at least reflect a difference between Armies unit capabllities as opposed to just having everything being an extra die to add to a random equation.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: seldon on August 13, 2019, 07:28:42 PM
Funny, one of our fears with CLASH of spears is that by saying that is for skirmish games people might think that they are the quick type of beer and pretzel rules , which is perfectly fine...nothing wrong with beers or pretzels, but CLASH is more like a Bolt Action or Chain of Command...

Hopefully we’ll be able to set the expectations correctly before release..

I’ve seen comments like , pff 40 figures, 1.5-2 hs .. that is not skirmish...

But for ancients, units of 6-8 figures representing 6 or 8 soldiers really should be call skirmished , right ?
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Lost Egg on August 13, 2019, 08:02:13 PM
But for ancients, units of 6-8 figures representing 6 or 8 soldiers really should be call skirmished , right ?

Aye, what most people call a skirmish (in wargaming turns) is really only a punch-up.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: jcspqr on August 13, 2019, 08:19:16 PM
Small "units" in a skirmish game are OK.  But if you are defining something as a "unit" in game terms, then that "unit" should have a front, flanks and rear and those concepts should have consequences in terms of game play movement and combat.  Likewise  there should be a differentiated consequnce (movement and combat) if you are wearing armour of differnt degrees as well as some differentiation in terms of the capabilities and limitations of different categories of weapons for shooting and melee.   A skirmish game is fine, just give it some real substance beyond a flash marketing scheme.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: seldon on August 13, 2019, 09:02:34 PM
Aye, what most people call a skirmish (in wargaming turns) is really only a punch-up.

hahaha...

good one

punch up
skirmish
small battles
large battles
grand scale

:)
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: seldon on August 13, 2019, 09:04:40 PM
Small "units" in a skirmish game are OK.  But if you are defining something as a "unit" in game terms, then that "unit" should have a front, flanks and rear and those concepts should have consequences in terms of game play movement and combat.  Likewise  there should be a differentiated consequnce (movement and combat) if you are wearing armour of differnt degrees as well as some differentiation in terms of the capabilities and limitations of different categories of weapons for shooting and melee.   A skirmish game is fine, just give it some real substance beyond a flash marketing scheme.

Agreed, in essence your decisions have to drive the action rather than just being irrelevant intervals between rolling dice

A skirmish level game has to be tactical and intense reflecting the different combat style of the soldiers involved.

You should be able to lose because you made mistakes !

Of course that is just my gaming preferences... I respect others..
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Arrigo on August 14, 2019, 10:47:58 AM
Quote
You should be able to lose because you made mistakes !

Tell that to some players...

One of the issue is that sometime terms that are used in general wargaming have more to do with GW conventions than real definitions, Skirmish is one of them. They are quite nebulous... As a game genre (opposed as a military term) I am fine with the word being nebulous. SPQR is definitaly skirmish, and has several good points in it. I think some decisions could have made to made it better (IE: suiting my tastes). I also thin that it had been written specifically to be as much as WHesque as possible. For example why do not have defensive armour being a modifier in a single combat roll rather than another roll on its own? Of course this could be tweaked quite easily. Another could have be giving longer weapons a hit first capability, again easy tweak.

Probably my only major gripe is the unit combat mechanic. In a more abstract came like Lion Rampant the unit is the basic element so assigning an attack score to it makes sense, here the idea that all minions had a chance to attack is counter-intuitive. The warband issue is that if I charge with my 30 gauls in a single line you have the same effect that if I charge in  a mass, but relative to the table my flanks are less exposed.  You can also argue that a single line of people yelling and running toward you is not that threatening.  Of course there are possible tweaks...

Other than that, no major gripes. The army lists are sufficently flexible and allow you to create also new forces. People complained no Carthaginians... okay, gauls... check, iberians... check, nummidians, check, cretan archers... check, balearic slingers, check. No liby-poeni infantry... use the greek mercenaries profile. Problem solved.

As for Antonio's gauls vs orks... you can make the case that it is quite obvious. Fantasy wargaming has been influenced by historical assumptions for ages. To a certain extent Orks are indeed what Phil Barker would call a 'fast warband' so yes, they are supposed to play similarly to the Gauls, at least if we follow Romans' views of them.

Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Jimmyg on August 14, 2019, 09:33:03 PM
Can I just add my thoughts after reading and watching games and seeing folk saying it’s just a bucket of dice game and then packing it in can I remind folk the title is SPQR a clash of hero’s.
Romans it’s said can’t beat the Gauls but they can. Use your hero to challenge the Gaul hero he can’t refuse to fight and if he is beaten the Gauls have to take a WtF if they lose they retreat.
Now I maybe wrong in my entire supposition and if I am ok sorry all, but if not those I’ve seen on YouTube haven’t done this and IMHO have missed the point of the game.
Hope I’m right.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: jcspqr on August 16, 2019, 12:59:29 AM
Just saw a post on TMP commenting on the ability of phalangites to have ranged shooting attacks.  But only to the front!   God I hope that is just a mistake by the guys playing.  Otherwise this goes from just a poor set of rules to a ridiculously bad set of non-historic rules. 
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Arrigo on August 16, 2019, 10:33:46 AM
once someone told to me... 'stupid people are ingenious'  lol

The rules say... 'a phalanx makes shooting attacks as normal but only against targets in its front facing' (pg. 22)

yes they can make ranged attacks... but no one bothered to check who is allowed to make ranged attacks, namely people equipped with ranged weapons: sling, bow, javelin, stones.

A pike phalanx cannot make ranged attacks. The rule is in place for Thorakitai who have javelins and can form phalanx, and probably also for Hispapysts that can have similar equipment. Those two units can use the phalanx rules to represent close order formations. Makes sense to me, and no it is not about throwing pikes. I am surprised the TMP chaps did not read the shooting rules (only weapons with range can shoot). But it is TMP after all...
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mark M Down on August 16, 2019, 04:07:01 PM
Had my first game of SPQR last night, so feel I can comment on the game. I enjoyed it. Although it is a rather quick game. We were able to play two games in under 2 hours. My friend Luke had bought some Caesarean Romans. He had one large squad and his hero. His troops were quite expensive, with chain mail, pila.
I had chosen to have very cheap figures. I had slingers, hunting dogs and a large unit of spearman wearing only their birthday suits. I had two heroes, one leader and one Druid. The Druid was very effective.
Slingers were fairly ineffective against armoured troops, but still took out a couple of man before the melee started. The hunting dogs were always wiped out by the Romans, but not before they had taken some of them with them. However, the large unit of spearmen with the Druid was very effective. I ended up winning both games.
So, my final thoughts. We were both new to the game, but the rules are very simple and we were able to pick them up very quickly. The rules perhaps do not have great depth in tactics, you basically have to either try to get your troops into contact, or to stay away and shoot. As Luke only had one unit he was definitely at a disadvantage. The dice of fate allows you to choose whether to go first or second, so that can be quite crucial. So moving your figures so they can charge does not always work if your opponent gets to go first. You can end up with a double go. The other factor to consider is the order your units take their actions. The other things that you need to consider is the equipment you give to your troops and the talents that your heroes have. I feel there is definitely scope for a campaign with troops being introduced to your force and advancement of your hero. It works as a game with historical flavour. Am playing again next week, so will have more thoughts maybe then.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: pallard on August 16, 2019, 08:16:44 PM
I'm not going to comment on SPQR because I don't own it and have not played it. This is obviously fun and easy as one can see from demo games on the net. I won't say that it is unhistorical for the reason that a phalanx would have a range capacity, because it suits the greek word phalanx definition and, as mentioned earlier, concerns such troops as hypaspistai and thureophoroi-thorakitai which were phalanx people and could throw javelins nonetheless. But pike-armed pezetairoi obviously cannot shoot anything other than curses to the enemy.
Now if like me you may appreciate more plausible scenarios than playing druids and dogs bashing legionaries like drunk on magic potion,  then just have a look at Mortal Gods dealing with the same level of play: individual hero(s) plus squad(s) of companions. Here I can assure you that you'll find a strong academic depth blended with the great fun.This is absolutely historical and very cleverly amusing and smooth on the table at the same time. You don't have to read greek history in the text mind you: just play and have fun as with SPQR,  but with plain trust in the pertinence of the simulation. If that is important for you, as it is for me.
 May I remark also that, if it is quite easy to make fun out of late republican Romans fighting Gauls or Britons, as proved by their popularity since the very beginning of WRG Ancient army lists and rules (I started with 5th edition), this is another story for the Classical Greeks! Boring to play with they used to say! Well just have a go with Mortal Gods and you tell me after!
This is for the time being: I'm waiting for Clash of spears and probably will use it for slightly larger forces along with MG and it's many extensions.
And then, for a core detailed simulation of full classical hoplite battles, from early morning breakfast to trophy erection on the battlefield, I'll stick to Hoplomachia, the free masterpiece rules available on the net. So, really, no one can still pretend that it's not possible to enjoy ancient Greek warfare on the tabletop!

Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: seldon on August 16, 2019, 08:59:10 PM
hahaha...

thanks for hoping for CLASH, indeed more and more Greek warfare is needed.. Mortal Gods is fun and hopefully CLASH will help you do bigger skirmishes and pit greeks against western foes like those mean carthaginians invading Sicily !

I thought you post demanding love for greek warfare was fun, else those romans take all the attention :)
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: seldon on August 16, 2019, 09:03:54 PM
Awesome gauls/celts Mark !
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Marine0846 on August 16, 2019, 10:57:14 PM
Mark M Down@
A few questions if I may Mark.
How many points of troops were on the table?
Would smaller units of Romans be better?
Then you could have 2 units.
Any idea of the number of dice on average were rolled?
Thanks for any answers to my questions.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mark M Down on August 17, 2019, 05:55:44 AM
Luke, playing Romans had one hero and I think had 16 Legionaries.
I had two heroes, 8 dogs, with 2 handlers, 12 slingers and 18 warriors with spears. That made for 500 denarii per side. Points in the game are measured in denarii.
If I had been choosing to play Romans I may have gone for some cheaper units like archers or auxiliaries and lost 3 or 4 legionaries.
When shooting I rolled one dice per figure. When in melee it was 2 dice per attack. So my 18 warriors rolled 36 dice. That was the biggest number of dice rolled. Our heroes rolled 2 dice each too, except for My Druid that just had the one.
Once rolled, the successes must be re- rolled if you have a parry ability. The Romans had 3 parries per figure. So 10 men have 30 parries. Basically any successes I had had to be re-rolled.
Then saves are rolled against any re-rolled successes. Romans save on a 3,4,5 or 6. So lots of dice rolling.
Hope this helps answer your questions.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 17, 2019, 06:41:05 AM
Thought the reference to "shooting" attacks with a phalanx was simply their way of representing the Macedonian formation, incorporating the long reach of their weapons with a ranged attack that can target nearby units to the front, without being in melee where you would be hit back? Don't have the rules, but sounds sensible to me.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Marine0846 on August 17, 2019, 03:51:39 PM
Thanks Mark for the reply.
I hope to play a game with friends late next month.
They are painting figures, (I hope).
I have some painted all ready.
I will post what I think of the game when we play.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: DegenerateElite on August 19, 2019, 02:21:22 AM
I've had this game on order from Warlord since the end 1st of Aug. and finally got the ship conformation for it.

Longest ship time I've ever had from them, though it might be the Horch heavy car for Bolt Action that held it up, who knows.

Am looking forward to messing around with it, and at the very least, all the bits will work well in Broken Legions and other games.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Whitwort Stormbringer on August 19, 2019, 04:17:30 PM
Luke, in your experience how "lethal" was combat?

Would one charge be at all likely to wipe out the opposing unit (excluding cases of extreme disparity in units)? Or was it more of a 2-3 rounds of combat, medium-to-slow attrition affair?
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: DegenerateElite on August 21, 2019, 09:55:31 PM
New FAQ up today.  Not sure what's been added.


https://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/SPQR_FAQ_1.1-1.pdf
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: CommanderBaker on August 22, 2019, 06:01:41 PM
Lots of talk on facebook about the changes to melee. seems to be a well liked change so far.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Arrigo on August 23, 2019, 01:26:33 PM
the changes from units to single figure contact, made the game less heavy on your wrist... I like it.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Mark M Down on August 24, 2019, 08:10:33 PM
My final thoughts having played it again. 3 units a side makes the game quite exciting.
The game is quite light in content and those looking for a highly skilled tactical game are in for a disappointment. However, the upside is that the rules are really easy to pick up. We only referred to them on about two occasions. The game is also very quick. We played two games in about two hours. I think the main part of the game is to play a campaign over the evening where the heroes advance and units come back or not. Looking forward to playing more with a campaign in mind. The units are nice and small and so can be assembled quickly and can be changed to gain more variety. The new rule with figures only in base to base contact fighting in melee will make the game more balanced I think. Here are some Romans I painted up for my latest game. Want to try out cavalry next.


 
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: Marine0846 on August 24, 2019, 09:08:34 PM
Nice looking figures you have painted up.
To me it looks like a larger game would be the way to go.
 Maybe 3 to 4 units and a couple of officers.
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: seldon on August 25, 2019, 04:01:54 AM
beautiful paintjob !
Title: Re: SPQR - NEW FAQ from Warlord
Post by: DegenerateElite on August 25, 2019, 06:47:09 AM
Reading through the rules and FAQ and a couple of things came to mind.

The standard that many units can spend 25 points for doesn't help with Will to Fight checks with the clarification to checks in the FAQ, and that's unfortunate.  Seems actual Bravery checks are mostly from hero talents.   So right now, it seems to be a waste of points.

That would also mean that Strength in Numbers special rule that many warbands have does not apply to Will to Fight checks either. I suspect that this will get FAQed again.

Clubs can smash and ignore the Parry rules, so it would seem they would make great weapons against Romans, or anyone with Large Shields and Swords.   Trouble is, I can't find a single instance of any troops being able to buy them.  Not one.  I guess that would be rather gamey, but it's still odd that there are no troops that can take them.

The melee change is a huge deal for a unit.  I wonder if the intention is just to apply it to heroes vs a unit and not to the unit vs unit combats.  Seems a rather drastic change up.


I take it that XP for heroes in cumulative and not spent, though that's not really stated anywhere.

There seems to be lots of little things that should have had an extra few words added onto them and it would have prevented many questions.  For such simple rules, these are pretty sloppy in their writing.