Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Tim Haslam on September 15, 2019, 11:38:43 AM
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Just having a Sunday morning muse.....
So UK based, which is the most popular big battle rule set?
I used to be a BIG WAB player back in the day.
Too the strongest,
Hail Caesar,
Sword-point?
By ‘popular’ I don’t mean which you like best, I like them all!
I mean which is played at events, or tournaments even?
I do appreciate it’s probably down to location too.
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To the strongest seems to be getting a lit of cover, whether that man's most popular, certainly when looking, reading blogs, forums etc I and not sure Tim. There does seem to be a move to bases rather than individual figure counts.
Our group plays Sword and Spear as it plays well and tickles our fancy but the rules you mention seem to be more commonly played. It maybe check with your local gaming group as that is where your games will come from.
I do mourn the loss of WAB too
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None, there isn't one overall winner, there's a few fighting over a dead bone. WAB was by far and away the 'Daddy', Hail Caesar and TTS are the biggies now but pale in size to WAB. There's a few others but they're small. I'm a member of every FB group going, and that's a good as way as any to get a 'feel' for what's being played.
DBA dwarfs everything though for ancients in terms of player count, but not figure count lol
Personally I think the days of mass 28mm ancient armies are gone. 15mm may become the Daddy.
Rampant Ancients may be the way forward. ???
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L'Art de la Guerre seems to have a good following with tournaments and whatnot....
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I should have said in 28mm, even though I love all the new 15mm stuff too!
Maybe I should carry on playing WAB, I’ve still got the books.
It looks like To The Strongest is our local favourite.
Hummm
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Did Kings of War Historical ever take off?
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no. lol
I have a copy of that as well :(
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:)
Well I’m thinking, that, WAB, TTS and KoW seem to use the same frontage for units?
Obviously some mechanics needed to remove individuals in WAB.
?
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Kow is variable, but mostly 100mm wide iirc, try Impetus, I used 15mm basing and distances but 28mm figures (8cm wide elements)
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Probably currently Art de la Guerre in the UK..
WAB always niche compared to the big hitters like DBM, FoG etc.
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Just a note from across the pond - we like Tactica, To the Strongest, WAB and they seem to be the most played along with DBA.
Greg
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I used to play WAB but got fed up of it. I tried Hail Caesar but found the results too random. Going to try Art De La Guerre next. Quite enthused from reading through it and you don’t need as many figures as some rule sets.
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Probably currently Art de la Guerre in the UK..
WAB always niche compared to the big hitters like DBM, FoG etc.
Yep. Couldn't have put it better than that.
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According to Tim at Madaxeman.com, currently L'Art de la Guerre is the most popular rule set for 28mm tournament competitions: https://madaxemandotcom.blogspot.com/2019/05/whos-playing-what-2019-update.html (https://madaxemandotcom.blogspot.com/2019/05/whos-playing-what-2019-update.html).
Hail Caesar continues to be very popular, but does not appear in Tim's analysis, because HC is designed for scenario-based play rather than tournament competitions.
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One nice thing about ADLG in 28mm, the standard table size is 6'x4'.
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Rampant Ancients may be the way forward. ???
Is this a new set or do you mean Lion Rampant?
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It's a name for the collective of Ancient versions on the web. ;)
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One nice thing about ADLG in 28mm, the standard table size is 6'x4'.
As indeed it is for 'To the Strongest'
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It's a name for the collective of Ancient versions on the web. ;)
But the Rampant games are not really mass battles - just big skirmishes (something I also felt about WAB)
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Why do people seem to equate tournament use with popularity? When I attend a UK convention, like Warfare, the tournament players are only a small fraction of the number attending. I know quite a few wargamers, but only a handful are regular tournament players (and most of those are 40K players).
I'm not intending to start the "tournament players are rule nazis etc" old chesnut (because most of them aren't), I'm just curious.
Oh, and at my local club it's mostly Sword and Spear with the odd game of HC.
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Why do people seem to equate tournament use with popularity?
It much easier and visible to count such games vs. what is played at clubs/homes. There must also be home games of these played so it's not a bad stat/judge to use. But like any can be manipulated as required. Aka lies, damed lies and statistics. :)
Oh, and at my local club it's mostly Sword and Spear with the odd game of HC.
We play a bit of Sword and Spear and HC but both systems are not great for the 'really completive/ or general pick up games'. They can be abused badly by someone who wants to win - and that makes it unfun for everyone other than them. So, they are played when someone 'puts on a game' and creates a scenario etc.
DBA is our major turn up with an army and play game, although I'm trying out ADLG for the same style but bigger games.
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Why do people seem to equate tournament use with popularity?
So they can say there little game is best lol
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I was hoping this topic would help me decide what rules to use.
I prefer 28mm gaming.
I like going out for the day (or weekend) and playing a few Wargames, regardless of either tournament OR just campaign style events.
What I’m trying to decide is which set of ancients, holds the most “events”
(Notice I avoided the dirty tournament word) lol
I’m just starting to get some time to game again, and so I’d like to attend some “events” in the future.
Anyhow, doing my own research, I think To The Strongest may fit the bill?
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Hi Tim,
Stumbled across this thread. Declaring an interest, I wrote "To the Strongest!", which isn't primarily a tournament game - I designed it to be played in an evening in a room over a pub - but which I also wrote with tournaments in mind and is proving quite popular as a tournament game, because it's fast and we can play 4 games in a day without raising too much of a sweat.
This is out first year on the tournament scene. We've run 28mm tournaments in Cardiff, Chalgrove (our "Worlds"), RollCall, the London GT (last weekend) and Glasgow this weekend. I know that ADLG also run 28mm events, I'm not sure about the other popular systems. Our 2019 "Worlds" had 40 players (possibly the largest 28mm big-battle event in the world?), the others are in the 10-20 player range. It's been a lot of fun- we might add one or two more events, next year.
https://bigredbat.blogspot.com/2019/09/tts-knight-fever-at-london-gt.html (https://bigredbat.blogspot.com/2019/09/tts-knight-fever-at-london-gt.html)
Our tournaments are on 6' x 4' tables with around a dozen units a side. To give you an idea, there are (I think) 92 Perry plastic minis in the Italian Condotta army I've been using in the tournaments this year. Some of the infantry armies would be rather bigger, around twice that I suppose, at the high end. Basing is flexible and a lot of people use WAB or Saga armies.
As well as tournaments I run participation games at several of the major shows, and players put on participation games, too. Of course, most TtS! games are played at home, or in clubs. Happily, there appear to be a lot of people playing the rules. :-)
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
Best, Simon
PS I have an idea that I've bought at least one army off you. :-)
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Yes Simon!
Yeah, I’m thinking TTS, is the direction.
Still working on my all fanatic Celt force!
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As BRB says, if you are looking to wheel out some 28mm figures at several "events" each year you are probably looking at TTS! or L'Art de la Guerre to have a reasonable chance of finding an event near you in a dateline that suits. TTS! had the 4-5 events BRB mentioned, whereas there were at least 9 events featuring 25mm ADLG held last year.
Other than that Swordpoint has maybe 2-3 events, the 6th Edition crowd still have maybe 2-3 as well (but hide them well!), there are I think 2 DBM events in 25mm and Rob Brooms I Can't Believe Its Not WaB set (forget the name ;D) also has one or two I think, but again many of these don't really have much of a web footprint so can be hard to find if you are not in the relevant circle of cognoscenti.
The upside of ADLG is, as well as the large pool of players, that 25mm armies can be bought reasonably cost effectively as the figure count isn't quite wall-to-wall mass battle numbers, and as a consequence there is more room for moving about on a 25mm 6x4 table than in many of the other rulesets I've peronally played in 25mm in the past.
But, as always, play what floats your boat and what has a community near you is (as ever) always the only advice really worth taking !
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twrchtrwyth
Like some others have said , you need to define Popular , do you want a historical set or a tournament set ? .
.., If you wish to do larger forces and 28mm & more Historical Battles, that can be finished in a reasonable time frame , then To the Strongest ( from the Big Red Bat Genius ) is the way to go , if you want tournament rules give it a miss..
The rules TTS are quite elegant , and this will not at all be evident from just reading the rules , you need to play them.
They do a very good job of simulating the command & control that an Ancient general would have , the others are not even close IMHO
Most others mentioned you will need a Masters Degree in trigonometry to play well.
Hail Caeser is quite good as well., & its a sandbox and can be modified easily to suit , and is very good to play around with( rules wise )
In addition not sure who said 28mm is dead … lol..quite the opposite, its the king ( probably someone who is far too attached to their retro minifigs ...lol ..) look how they shine .!!!..
Cheers
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Sorry I meant this for Tim Haslam..oops o_o
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Tim
red zed had a point
The dragon Rampant system Modified is quite a good and versatile rule set.
It is fun , fast, simple but again surprisingly subtle. However the figures mostly need to be single bases.
That system can handle a ton of figures .
Cheers
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I wrote TtS! primarily as an ancient battle set, but also think TtS! are great tournament rules- you can fight four battles in a day, generally, to a conclusion, without bursting a gasket. I have never, ever been an ancients tournament player, but I've played in 4 of our 5 UK TtS! tournaments, this year, had an absolute ball. I even find I'm getting quite good with my own rules, or maybe it's just that I have identified an army that works for me (Italian Condotta). Here , the Duke of Milan is getting ready to deliver a massive left hook to some out-armoured Dacians, last Saturday, in Glasgow.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Vz1bZxxN8yM/XYcAsAXNpnI/AAAAAAAA7V8/2wsWgGpwMDsbQMfxEfP-C8XcEVAsTz7dQCKgBGAsYHg/s1600/20190921_140125.jpg)
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After GW ditched WAB, I couldn't be bothered to go for another mass battles system. I purchased Hail Ceasar, but it just is looking beautiful next to other untried systems. Kings of War historical is something we'll try out in the near future, though, as we really enjoyed the fantasy version. Good old pushing of units has become a rarity over here the last couple of years...
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No one for Warmaster Ancients or Medieval? It is out of print but it still seems to be reasonably popular (Magister, New Line, and Kallistra all sell in packs designed for it) although it is primarily 10mm.
I find Hail Caesar! to be the spiritual successor to it vs WAB.
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Just having a Sunday morning muse.....
So UK based, which is the most popular big battle rule set?
I used to be a BIG WAB player back in the day.
Too the strongest,
Hail Caesar,
Sword-point?
By ‘popular’ I don’t mean which you like best, I like them all!
I mean which is played at events, or tournaments even?
I do appreciate it’s probably down to location too.
Yes. That is the correct answer.
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Sorry I meant this for Tim Haslam..oops o_o
Lol.
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I have played DBA, DBM Before I switched to WAB, after its demise played some Hail Ceasar, then finally settled on advanced Impetus, also had a few games of ADLG. Not tried to the strongest.
A big Fan of Impetus basing, and rewards good tactics, prevents walking calculators from running the numbers (adlg and DBA can suffer from it).
I am not a fan of Basic Impetus for tournaments or games, it is like having a wank, gets a result, but not very satisfactory.
Cheers
Matt
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Ok for solo play then?
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Ok for solo play then?
Commands & Colors Ancients/Medieval
https://www.commandsandcolors.net/ancients/ (https://www.commandsandcolors.net/ancients/)
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Ok for solo play then?
Rally Round the King by Two Hour Wargames. It's Fantasy but they released a supplement for historicals with 150 different army lists. It's currently OOP but I think if you ask to Ed who is a very nice guy, he will sell you one rulebook.
In my blog you can check a full AAR of the battle of Bibracte using this ruleset: http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/2012/11/bibracte.html (http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/2012/11/bibracte.html)
The report is in Spanish but the pictures contain comments in English; a teaser:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iD7djQ1YtUQ/ULkwohY7jOI/AAAAAAAACvI/LNHvF8cTRHo/s1600/BIBRACTE+02.png)
Cheers,
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Neither of you two read Bluewillows last line, did you?
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Oh you we being funny, so sorry, :`
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Its Ok,that's the usual reaction I get when I'm being funny...
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Its Ok,that's the usual reaction I get when I'm being funny...
lol
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Another vote for To the Strongest!
I'm not a competition gamer, but realy like these rules! You can play it with as little figures as a DBA army (+/-) up to huge games with +1000 figures. At the local club, most 28mm games have around 100 to 150 figures a side.
Most important: winners AND loosers like the game after the battle is over.
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Ok for solo play then?
Haha, brilliant!
Actually Basic Impetus is pretty good, you use slightly simplified lists from Advanced,and easily play two games in the morning, in a lot of ways it's more tactical as all troops are of the same quality.
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Haha, brilliant!
Actually Basic Impetus is pretty good, you use slightly simplified lists from Advanced,and easily play two games in the morning, in a lot of ways it's more tactical as all troops are of the same quality.
Finally got it lol
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Just my personal thoughts.
I really like To The Strongest but my go too rules is Hail Caesar for it's ease of play and adaptability
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Ok for solo play then?
Yes basic Impetus is ok for solo, but like I said not as satisfying!
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Yes basic Impetus is ok for solo, but like I said not as satisfying!
lol
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Not sure if they’ve been mentioned, but Commands & Colors are very popular.
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DBMM, ADLG and Big Battle DBA are the popular sets in New Zealand, with MM possibly the biggest.
I play a bit of TTS as well which is a great game.
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Not sure if they’ve been mentioned, but Commands & Colors are very popular.
Most played wargame, I've used Impetus and DBA sized elements, didn't bother with hexes that often, just put a dot where the middle of the hex was.
And the rules are now FREE!!!
https://www.commandsandcolors.net/ancients/ (https://www.commandsandcolors.net/ancients/)
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Rally Round the King by Two Hour Wargames. It's Fantasy but they released a supplement for historicals with 150 different army lists. It's currently OOP but I think if you ask to Ed who is a very nice guy, he will sell you one rulebook.
Ed sold the rules to Rebel Miniatures. They sell the PDF for £10