Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: FlyXwire on September 29, 2019, 11:04:01 PM
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Hi All,
If you're into 12mm WW2, or thinking about getting into it, very soon Victrix Ltd. will be launching their own line of 1/144th scale vehicles, heavy weapons, and infantry figures -
https://www.beastsofwar.com/modern-warfare/victrix-upcoming-12mm-world-war-ii-game/
I'm hoping to see what their Infantry and AT Guns w/crews look like!
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Interesting, they look very nice tank models.
I have huge amounts of 10-12mm WWII stuff already, but more is always good! Will be interesting to see where they are size wise with existing metal and plastic ranges.
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There are so many complete ranges in (first choice) 6mm, 15mm, 28mm (I cant stand 20mm, personally)
Why 12mm??!
Seems like a non-starter.
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If they'd been 10mm or 15mm they'd be more interesting.
And oversaturation of 15mm isn't an excuse.
If Rubicon can smash the 28mm vehicle market then Victrix could of with 15mm.
You beat quantity with quality.
And 10mm is still more widely known and used than 12mm.
What's funnier is they do 15mm aircraft.
This is a bit of a silly choice.
Yes the 1/144 players will stand up and say it's great.
But in a room of 100 people that's probably 3 blokes and a cockerspaniel.
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Personally I welcome this as I have quite a few Dragon Can Do models and the like, which I've not been able to do anything with, as there is no infantry to go with them. It is coming rather late, though, as I have even more 15 mm stuff, which I've also done nothing with due to not having got around to building more than a handful, none as yet painted. This of course says more about me than the business acumen of the company concerned.
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I think their scale strategy might be geared to "new historical gamers" (are their many of those around today)?
Hypothetically speaking, and if one were starting with a clean sheet of paper, 12mm is an excellent scale for a 6 X 4 ft. battle-size game board, for looks and potential unit density, and to enable scenarios for forces of coy. - bn. level, and with combined-arms).....so is 10mm of course - as these two scales dovetail a lot.
So my first question would be (even though I'm an ardent fan of the 10-12mm size WW2 for the above battle-level gaming scale), is how well they integrate their rules with the 6 X 4 ft. arena - and what is their chosen ground scale (what's a kilometer equate to on their table)?
If their rules integrate well with their minis, and with a chosen unit/ground scale that works to enable company and battalion size battlegroups to move around on a 6 X 4 ft. game board, giving space for the approach to contact, maneuvering to the flanks, and importantly allowing disengaging from engagement, then perhaps they have produce a WW2 "system" as claimed.
On top of this, if it's a scenario based rule system that recognizes warfare isn't an equal pts.-based matchup, then there could routinely be such things as a battalion of dug-in infantry across the 4ft. width of their battle board, backed up by AT gun batteries, and with available reserves vs. an on-coming armored Kampfgruppe.
If they're making another tournament game system, I'll pass on the rules, but will look forward to seeing what they'll offer in 12mm infantry and support weapons w/crews - this is an area I've not been happy with between the various 10mm metal lines, and 1/144th scale plastic and resin figures (that's been a mash-up pursuit for my collecting in this scale).
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Can't wait for these. I game in both 10mm and 12mm.
The important thing for us 'little fellas' is that here is a savvy commercial outfit who believe that this big investment is worthwhile. Victrix are highly successful at 28mm and could just stay with that, so that fact that they are exploring this and have perfected the sculpting / making process to do it.
Maybe massed battles is about to become the next big thing, if you think Victrix are wrong, then why are Gripping Beast doing Ancients in 10mm plastic with a new version of Swordpoint to support the smaller scale and Plastic Soldier Company are doing moderns in 10mm plastic.
Timecast have already started a line in 10mm metals for modern.
from my own point of view, I have become weary of going to wargame shows to find they are virtually a 28mm fest and scale diversity has been losing ground, but now, it looks like it might even become cool to be a small scale gamer :-) A new generation of boardgamers have been dabbling with a boardgame / figure blend, I can see them being a target group and the wheel of mass battles getting re-invented :-)
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Yep - very interested in these.
I've been collecting the Wargames South/Arrowhead models for years and the lack of good infantry and crews has always been a limitation.
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Good luck to them! Not my scale (at the moment, but one never knows)
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I'd wager that some of the popular 10mm ranges are already fairly close to 12mm anyway, and may mix well with Victrix's stuff.
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There are so many complete ranges in (first choice) 6mm, 15mm, 28mm (I cant stand 20mm, personally)
Why 12mm??!
Seems like a non-starter.
Really, there are lots of 10-12mm ranges out there already. There have been some very nice plastic 12mm ranges already (Takara, Can Do, Dragon). And there are several metal manufacturers. Many of these ranges are much more complete than ones in 15mm.
I'd wager that some of the popular 10mm ranges are already fairly close to 12mm anyway, and may mix well with Victrix's stuff.
I agree.
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I too agree that the supposedly same scale does not mean same size.
I first learnt that helping my wife shop for dresses (size... different for each shop).
Trying to get some 1/200th modern French (to take part in flatpack's games)
I ordered a sample from Mini-fig & BPM. Same scale, same tank, but the Mini-Fig
is 5mm longer & 3mm wider!!!!! Might try BMP for 1/144th.
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If you want 1/200th I think the only option is Skytrex. I suppose BPM might be willing to print it in that scale.
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BPM very kindly did print in 1/200th. Problem is they look very small,
especially along side the Mini-fig 1/200th of the same tank!
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Good news from BPM - but I didn’t know Minifigs did 8mm. The WWII kit I have from them is very much 10/12mm and scales with Pendraken & Pithead.
Skytrex is the only manufacturer I know doing 1/200th aka 8mm
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I wish they had released quality 28mm WWII infantry instead.
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They look nice - depending on price I may pick up some additional vehicles for new projects but I already have a large commitment to Pendraken in 10mm. I just hope they support the line and don't stop with just the basic stuff.
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Very nice, crisp looking examples there. :) However, the Pz IV in the link makes me think they modelled that casting based on the PSC model, i.e. the split crew commander’s hatch with skirts. Definitely photographic evidence to support such a choice, but it is still an uncommon one.
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Victrix previewed WIP for their new 12mm British infantry renders today.....
(https://files.constantcontact.com/d52d6d79301/2ea1070c-83a2-4377-88e6-90ebe14eaf3b.jpg)
....and more for their planned German infantry -
(https://files.constantcontact.com/d52d6d79301/fc3f337e-f06b-422f-b2c0-c27b670e4373.jpg)
The update also included details on their planned range of vehicle decals -
We are producing a full range of 12mm transfers for this range. The following sheets will be available:
4 x separate sets of German crosses and tactical numbers.
2 sheets of Allied stars with British tank names.
2 sheets of US stars with US tank names and serial numbers.
1 sheet of British divisional, unit and squadron markings.
1 sheet of Free French markings including stars, crosses of Lorraine, names, tri colours plus other markings.
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They look good. I’ve shed loads of 10mm stuff, so will be interested to see what size these are in comparison to other ranges, particularly Pendraken and Pithead.
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Wot's that all about with their British Infantry?
The Jerry's (as usual) are fully catered for with rifles, smgs and anti tank weapons... our lads are all stuck with rifles?
:-[
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They just want to give Jerry a fighting chance! ;)
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The 1st wave of Victrix 1/144th scale armor (and decal sheets) are now becoming available (announcement) -
https://www.victrixlimited.com/collections/victrix-games?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=new%20product%2012mm%20+%20free%20download
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They look good, but they do have excellent paint jobs!
Would have been nice to have a few options on the sprues, like PSC do. Its good the Stug has separate side skirts, but a short 75mm gun would have been a handy option (although I guess this is a later hull).
But the PzIV has the side skirts moulded on, which limits it a bit more.
But they are nice simple kits which will be quick to build, which is good for gaming models.
Will be good to see the sizes of these, so I can compare against the Pithead and Pendraken tanks I already have. They are pretty much the same price as existing metal ones - might have thought they would be a bit cheaper especially as only available in multipacks.
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Fred, I agree on the skurtzen - would have been nice if separately molded for easy customizing.
Hey, the PDF painting guides (nice ones too) are available for each model when clicking (Quick Shop) on each model - the Pz VI H example -
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0782/9619/files/Panzer_IV_tutorial.pdf?v=1591189802
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Wow, that's some painting guide! Would work for much large scale tanks too I think.
Puts my spray in base colour, wash, dry brush method to shame...
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Wow, that's some painting guide! Would work for much large scale tanks too I think.
Puts my spray in base colour, wash, dry brush method to shame...
The painting guides do look useful.
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Nice.
The painting guide looks useful.
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Ah, the 1/200 vs 10mm debate. I too have masses of Skytrex 1/200. I reckon they are 8-9mm, and indeed I use the "oversize" Mainforce Miniatures" 1/300mm perfectly well with my armour.
I think 1/200 morphed into 10mm just as 25mm eventually spawned 28mm.
Unfortunately it is a case of Caveat Emptor!