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Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: Harry Faversham on October 14, 2019, 09:27:59 AM

Title: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Harry Faversham on October 14, 2019, 09:27:59 AM
What is, in the Brethren's esteemed opinion, the best shade of Vallejo green to paint Boney's gun carriages?
Back in the day, when I last did some of these you didn't have to ask, Humbrol did our thinking for us with their 'Authentic Colours' range...
Never understood why nobody's ever tried to reproduce 'Humbrol Authentic Colours - Flesh'!

???
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: vtsaogames on October 15, 2019, 11:46:58 AM
Do what they did. Mix black and yellow.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Harry Faversham on October 16, 2019, 11:30:42 PM
Do what they did. Mix black and yellow.

Thanks for that...
It's reely useful.

 ::)
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: RobertBruce on October 17, 2019, 12:58:07 AM
I think I read that the French did mix black and green for their carriages, etc. Perhaps a Vallejo olive comes closest, maybe with a small amount of black mixed in. If you are painting a small scale, say 15mm or smaller, brighter colors may make the models pop out on the table more effectively.

In any case, like so much about colors for Napoleonics, there may not be a consistent right answer because there were so many variables regarding paint and dyes etc. in those days. Not to mention weather and hard usage. RB
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Jemima Fawr on October 17, 2019, 12:58:46 AM
They used exactly the same proportion of lamp-black to ochre (iirc either 99:1 or 100:1) as did the US Army during WW2 to make Olive Drab vehicle paint (which in Humbrol terms is 155).  I like something a touch greener, so use Humbrol 159 - same colour as my WW2 British vehicles.

Re Humbrol Authentic Colour - most of the colours were/are available in the main range anyway.  They just stuck a different label on it and charged a bit more (e.g. the three German WW2 camo colours are in the main range as 83, 86 and 160).  I've known people to argue the toss, but this was confirmed to me by Humbrol's chief chemist.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Etranger on October 18, 2019, 02:24:48 AM
They used exactly the same proportion of lamp-black to ochre (iirc either 99:1 or 100:1) as did the US Army during WW2 to make Olive Drab vehicle paint (which in Humbrol terms is 155).  I like something a touch greener, so use Humbrol 159 - same colour as my WW2 British vehicles.

Re Humbrol Authentic Colour - most of the colours were/are available in the main range anyway.  They just stuck a different label on it and charged a bit more (e.g. the three German WW2 camo colours are in the main range as 83, 86 and 160).  I've known people to argue the toss, but this was confirmed to me by Humbrol's chief chemist.

And Humbrol 150 is French Artillery Green by another name...
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Jemima Fawr on October 18, 2019, 11:42:56 AM
And Humbrol 150 is French Artillery Green by another name...
Is it indeed?!  :)

I use that for Russian tanks and it's probably a little bit bright for my tastes, but there's not that much difference compared to 159 (155 is very brownish).
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: black hat miniatures on October 18, 2019, 01:23:39 PM
And I was told that Humbrol Authentic colours were merely the nearest pantones anyway...

Mike
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: vtsaogames on October 19, 2019, 01:17:23 AM
They used exactly the same proportion of lamp-black to ochre (iirc either 99:1 or 100:1) as did the US Army during WW2 to make Olive Drab vehicle paint (which in Humbrol terms is 155). 

Most interesting! Thank you. If and when I get around to painting up Shermans (and a US force to go with it)...

The color I get from mixing black and yellow is quite different from other paints I've used. Didn't ever really use Humbrol.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Jemima Fawr on October 19, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
Most interesting! Thank you. If and when I get around to painting up Shermans (and a US force to go with it)...

The color I get from mixing black and yellow is quite different from other paints I've used. Didn't ever really use Humbrol.
I'm not sure that simply mixing black and yellow really works.  It's something to do with the chemical reaction between lamp-black and ochre that creates the greenish tone.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: emosbur on October 19, 2019, 12:30:19 PM
Humbrol 155 is not WWII olive drab, is the modern olive drab from Federal Standard. WWII Olive drab is very different. Moreover, there were three different Olive Drabs: one from the Army, for vehicles, and two for ythe Air Forces.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: vtsaogames on October 19, 2019, 01:21:12 PM
I'm not sure that simply mixing black and yellow really works.  It's something to do with the chemical reaction between lamp-black and ochre that creates the greenish tone.

It's how I painted my most recent French artillery and I'm quite pleased with the color. I have a busy weekend ahead, might be a bit before I can dig out my guns and photograph them. Even then, the digital camera might decide to render the color differently.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Etranger on October 20, 2019, 07:11:51 AM
Humbrol 155 is not WWII olive drab, is the modern olive drab from Federal Standard. WWII Olive drab is very different. Moreover, there were three different Olive Drabs: one from the Army, for vehicles, and two for ythe Air Forces.
http://mojobob.com/stuff/Zaloga%20-%20Olive%20Drab.pdf

There was a more recent article by Steve Zaloga on the Miliitary Modelling website but that seems to have disappeared along with the site itself.  :'(
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Jemima Fawr on October 20, 2019, 11:31:25 AM
Humbrol 155 is not WWII olive drab, is the modern olive drab from Federal Standard. WWII Olive drab is very different. Moreover, there were three different Olive Drabs: one from the Army, for vehicles, and two for ythe Air Forces.
Humbrol 155 looks exactly right to me - very brown and not very green at all.  That's not scientific, but it looks perfect to my eye.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: emosbur on October 20, 2019, 08:51:22 PM
From the article by Zaloga quoted by Etranger:

"Basically, the only colour that comes close to the wartime colour is the Tamiya acrylic XF62, with the Poly Scale acrylic a distant second. Two colours fell for the old FS-595A snag, Gunze Sangyo and Model Master which are too light and vivid for wartime Olive Drab. The two Model Master paints intended to represent AN 613 dark Olive Drab are both too grey for the army colour. Humbrol 155 is too green for US Olive Drab."

The closest colour to Olive Drab is RAL 7013.

Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Jemima Fawr on October 20, 2019, 10:02:42 PM
From the article by Zaloga quoted by Etranger:

"Basically, the only colour that comes close to the wartime colour is the Tamiya acrylic XF62, with the Poly Scale acrylic a distant second. Two colours fell for the old FS-595A snag, Gunze Sangyo and Model Master which are too light and vivid for wartime Olive Drab. The two Model Master paints intended to represent AN 613 dark Olive Drab are both too grey for the army colour. Humbrol 155 is too green for US Olive Drab."

The closest colour to Olive Drab is RAL 7013.
Indeed he does.  I respectfully disagree.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: emosbur on October 20, 2019, 10:26:35 PM
No problem!!  :D :D :D I disagree with you too, I beg your pardon!!

And sorry for hijacking the thread, but I love colour discussions.


Milo.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Jemima Fawr on October 20, 2019, 10:43:10 PM
No problem!!  :D :D :D I disagree with you too, I beg your pardon!!

And sorry for hijacking the thread, but I love colour discussions.


Milo.
Indeed!  Sorry for being a bit flippant, but if Mr Zaloga disliked one batch of Humbrol, there'll be another batch along in a minute... (realistically unpredictable...) ;)
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Etranger on October 21, 2019, 08:18:44 AM
Indeed he does.  I respectfully disagree.

FWIW I also use H155 which look close to the Modelmaster Color IMHO! Zaloga also mixed his Tamiya US OD with their dunkelgelb 2:! at one point, but seems to have changed his mind about that recommendation somewhere  along the way.
Title: Re: French Artillery Green?
Post by: Etranger on October 21, 2019, 08:19:21 AM
FWIW I also use H155 which look close to the Tamiya Color IMHO! Zaloga also mixed his Tamiya US OD with their dunkelgelb 2:! at one point, but seems to have changed his mind about that recommendation somewhere  along the way.