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Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: Arthur on December 24, 2019, 05:25:43 PM

Title: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Arthur on December 24, 2019, 05:25:43 PM
... the War of the Triple Alliance in South America, 1864-1870.

(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80526688_2448579328597492_3016476525504495616_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQmdlT7ebdSCk_0j7pBJ1nfmrnrtzOju6ees_ZhlButLBePGR1h4PrSjy0ImZVWt36JAQBW8ccKj-z0zDF5nUzcG&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=f302c2da5b6f635e24d0644c26c1163e&oe=5E70EDC5)

(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81227197_2448579515264140_2216750088821145600_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkiH0p_rsn7nK4hYP3of6S57TzRK65IOSsbQG666bDp5dKk-2OanYcyOKO56phMZoYBX2T-4dfKC_Vm8KwlBDom&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=c8f7f7951ce42586b8e783741cd2e21a&oe=5E7773B1)

(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/79902727_2448579758597449_4433666856733114368_o.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQmxF2QNwJaPfPTZeMivxk3wrbtIss0xB-jDySdQPnG1NuJmwHCBRWOMRdzvfOHdqtzN87XJpHWYIU2bRXhOKL6_&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=adb22c9c4343e267e3664e6d4ab7dc51&oe=5EAF0F9E)

(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80207986_2448579638597461_4215648604481650688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQlVhFWE3vcnaAXWrYX2oBp9e4ENL1vlFmdaCTnb6rZGgxcGrny-K-Ifq-3F_htCJAZVXcJp9PlWzl40Li9Azr4b&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=b959b18d725356ef635404815ec3a1af&oe=5EA1769D)

More details can be found on the Twins' FB page :

http://www.facebook.com/perryminiatures/ (http://www.facebook.com/perryminiatures/) 
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Captain Blood on December 24, 2019, 05:46:34 PM
Another rabbit hole of obscurity. Well, they do love to please themselves with projects they fancy... I guess they’ve earned the right  ::) :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: jambo1 on December 24, 2019, 05:48:33 PM
Nice!! I can certainly see some hard earned cash been spent on this range! :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: swiftnick on December 24, 2019, 05:49:45 PM
Finally!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: the commissar on December 24, 2019, 05:57:29 PM
While this is interesting and I may buy some for skirmish games I do wish they would concentrate on filling the gaps in their existing ranges - where are:-

French pre 1812 light infantry
The earlier Portuguese
Danish light infantry with muskets

To name just three!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Inkpaduta on December 24, 2019, 05:59:13 PM
The figures they show look great.
Never know what they will do next.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: TheBlackCrane on December 24, 2019, 06:46:28 PM
Outstanding! South American conflicts don't get enough of a look-in in our hobby often, hopefully will be a comprehensive range.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: vtsaogames on December 24, 2019, 06:46:44 PM
Oh my. I can see doing a bunch for Rebels & Patriots. Paraguayans in canoes trying to board a river monitor...
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Marine0846 on December 24, 2019, 07:33:30 PM
Captain Blood,
please tell how you really feel.
Thanks for the laugh, lol
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: NurgleHH on December 24, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
Interesting and unexpected. They counted the danish-Prussian-1860-70 as too special, but now this. But the figures are great...
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: von Lucky on December 24, 2019, 10:27:52 PM
Not that obscure for those with an interest in conflicts not involving Americans or the English. (I'd argue it has the same level of importance for the local inhabitants as say the American Civil War or the War of the Roses.)

Obscure would be a range for the Anglo-Zanzibar War. lol
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Captain Blood on December 24, 2019, 11:06:34 PM
I’m sure it’s not obscure as a period of history for the local inhabitants. But as a wargames genre, it’s obscure. But maybe there’s a huge untapped South American wargames market.
Like I say, the Perrys are well known for occasionally delving in backwaters of historical or imaginary conflicts that they find interesting, but aren’t necessarily commercial. Fair play, if it makes them happy.
I could see a market for figures portraying the Anglo-Zanzibar War, short as it was.
Luckily, they don’t need to worry about the market :)
Good luck to them.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: bazookajoe on December 25, 2019, 06:16:42 AM
Its was a major conflict with extremely deadly consequences.  Well worth paying attention to.  Perhaps it will not be so "obscure" if more people learn about it.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 25, 2019, 07:04:04 AM
As obscure as it may be, I find it rather intriguing.

I'm still interested in doing latter-day horse-and-musket, and even though I would prefer the Russian conquest of central Asia (e.g. Flashman at the Charge) or 1848 in the German states, this is something that does tickle my fancy.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: von Lucky on December 25, 2019, 07:59:20 AM
I'm going to apologise to Captain Blood, I have read the post now from the Perry's Facebook page, where they also use the term "obscure". I thought that was you being self-righteous, when you were just repeating the post. So, apologies.

As someone with an interest in Brazilian conflicts (due to my partner being Brazilian), I am looking forward to this range (and the Hooker’s/Foundry is a lovely book on the subject).
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on December 25, 2019, 08:59:10 AM
I am very interested in this range, but will keep my feet dry until I see if they make a comprehensive range or just a half-dozen sets and that's it.

Of course, being totally honest I would have preferred a range on the independence wars of South America.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Captain Blood on December 25, 2019, 09:56:56 AM
I'm going to apologise to Captain Blood, I have read the post now from the Perry's Facebook page, where they also use the term "obscure". I thought that was you being self-righteous, when you were just repeating the post. So, apologies.

There's no need to apologise - I hadn't read their promo email either when I posted that. But interesting that they picked the same word.
I don't think it's 'self-righteous' to point out that the Paraguayan War of 1864 is an obscure subject. I wonder who had heard of it before this? Not many people I'd imagine, not even many wargamers, who are often into military history. So it's obscure (obscure means 'not known to many people'). And another of those occasional unexpected niche choices from my favourite figure makers. Not that controversial an observation, surely?

As someone with an interest in Brazilian conflicts (due to my partner being Brazilian), I am looking forward to this range (and the Hooker’s/Foundry is a lovely book on the subject).

Fair enough. I can totally see that as someone with a South American connection, this would have more interest for you than for the overwhelming majority of wargamers who inhabit the Anglosphere or European countries. But you never know - novelty itself can be attractive to jaded wargamers tired of the same old same old  :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 25, 2019, 10:21:27 AM
Another rabbit hole of obscurity. Well, they do love to please themselves with projects they fancy... I guess they’ve earned the right  ::) :)

That rather depends on your frame of reference. If you choose to view the world in a wholly Eurocentric manner, so be it. In Brazil, a country with a population three times that of the UK, it’s a fairly well known historic event, as it is in Uruguay, Argentina and Paraguay. Actually there’s little excuse for the Anglo-American gamer, there’s a fairly good Foundry book on the topic and there’s even an Osprey.

Try thinking of it as a more interesting and infinitely more exotic version of the ACW, with everything that has to offer, gunboats, balloons et al but minus dickheads offering lame excuses about the Confederacy and ‘state’s rights’. It has pantomime villains and heroes and the uniforms are natty but for the most part restrained. This has arrived at a particularly poor time for me, as I am heavily committed to Vietnam but will, almost inevitably succumb to a long term interest, with the consequent hit on my finances.

By the by, if anyone is looking for painting references, aside from the battlefield paintings of Candido Lopez and the afore mentioned Foundry book the University of Toronto has published an online version of Barosso’s Uniformes do Exercito brasileiro, which is an excellent guide. Worth googling, the original goes for upwards of  $1,000 in mint condition.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Brummie on December 25, 2019, 11:21:52 AM
It is obscure for any casual military historian.

I remember back when I was doing my War studies degree at the University of Wolverhampton and although it was never looked at in depth (I.E with a module etc) it was recommended that students took time out to at least have a basic understanding of the conflict.

Any war that cost a few hundred thousand lives doesn't deserve to be considered obscure, though I understand the label. South America is a largely unexplored frontier in military history for us Westerners.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Armstrong47 on December 25, 2019, 11:52:45 AM
Looks like another new project for 2020!!!!
Now,if they could just be persuaded to make a US-Mexico War range..........
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shahbahraz on December 25, 2019, 12:03:35 PM
I'm just hoping they go back to their plastics range and use the dollies and weapons from the 8th Army set to do BEF.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: juergen c. olk on December 25, 2019, 01:32:21 PM
good looking range ..I;m in....the more obscure the better..
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: tom_aargau on December 25, 2019, 01:57:18 PM
An interesting range. According to the newsletter there will be 13 packs in the first release.
There is also a link to some picture included in the newsletter:
https://isfd50historia.blogspot.com/2016/06/la-guerra-de-la-triple-alianza-del.html?fbclid=IwAR3x4rGHLux4yGwYAvTz5dCqBiYSFbwUmhXJP0eWvWO_m_y3tIg2Nit_K38 (https://isfd50historia.blogspot.com/2016/06/la-guerra-de-la-triple-alianza-del.html?fbclid=IwAR3x4rGHLux4yGwYAvTz5dCqBiYSFbwUmhXJP0eWvWO_m_y3tIg2Nit_K38)

And for an obscure war it seems to be reasonably covered by Osprey and Foundry as mentioned above:
https://ospreypublishing.com/armies-of-the-war-of-the-triple-alliance-1864-70?___store=osprey_rst&___from_store=osprey_usa (https://ospreypublishing.com/armies-of-the-war-of-the-triple-alliance-1864-70?___store=osprey_rst&___from_store=osprey_usa)
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/military-history-books/products/the-paraguayan-war (https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/military-history-books/products/the-paraguayan-war)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Johnp4000 on December 25, 2019, 02:51:00 PM
I’m sure it’s not obscure as a period of history for the local inhabitants. But as a wargames genre, it’s obscure. But maybe there’s a huge untapped South American wargames market.
Like I say, the Perrys are well known for occasionally delving in backwaters of historical or imaginary conflicts that they find interesting, but aren’t necessarily commercial. Fair play, if it makes them happy.
I could see a market for figures portraying the Anglo-Zanzibar War, short as it was.
Luckily, they don’t need to worry about the market :)
Good luck to them.

I think you made a fair comment we are talking about wargaming genre not the historical significance of a real event. I doubt if Perries will find this a major selling range as supporting comments on forums don't always equate to sales.I would also doubt there is a major market in South America for this conflict, one of the funniest gaming memories I have was being taken to a gaming club in Hong Kong, would you believe it, the Chinese gamers were playing Wars of the Roses! The other main interests were  Eastern Front WW2 and Napoleonic's, there didn't seem to be any interest in gaming Chinese events.
I always find it odd, that still the most but  not complete 28mm range for the Franco Prussian war is still the Foundry's 80's range?Perhaps a war being obscure, can make it a good gaming subject in that it is a good way of putting on challenging games where you can't be pulled up by history fanatics.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: AKULA on December 25, 2019, 03:46:20 PM
It is obscure for any casual military historian.

This.

Yes, there will be gamers that already have an interest, and yes there will understandably be people that have more of an interest from a geographical perspective but let’s not kid ourselves that it’s a mainstream period from a Wargames perspective...obscure is a reasonable term in a Wargames context....if this offends, then sorry.

@Brummie - Good to hear from you mate....I haven’t been on the Xbox of late, but maybe over the holiday  ;)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: fusilierdan on December 25, 2019, 09:39:31 PM
Freikops 15 did a range back in the late 1980's.
I guess the Perry's could sculpt the obscure ACW or Napoleonic units or start a new range. I'm tempted. It may help improve my spanish.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Brummie on December 25, 2019, 10:18:42 PM
This.

Yes, there will be gamers that already have an interest, and yes there will understandably be people that have more of an interest from a geographical perspective but let’s not kid ourselves that it’s a mainstream period from a Wargames perspective...obscure is a reasonable term in a Wargames context....if this offends, then sorry.

@Brummie - Good to hear from you mate....I haven’t been on the Xbox of late, but maybe over the holiday  ;)

And you mate! Unfortunately my Xbox died many moons ago and I'm not much on the PS4 (a gift from the folks) though I hope to make it to Salute in 2020 so if you're there give me a shout!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: TheBlackCrane on December 25, 2019, 10:57:31 PM
I wonder who had heard of it before this? Not many people I'd imagine, not even many wargamers, who are often into military history.

I'd heard of it...  lol

 :D

Actually, I gave a lecture earlier this year on the Chaco War and part of the framing was a quick foray into the War of the Triple Alliance and also the War of the Pacific (which I've been meaning to 'do' too for ages) - but I'll be the first to admit I love obscure wars, and this one (as rightly pointed out from an Anglo-centric POV) is quite obscure.

One of the joys of wargaming for me is being able to put together projects (or at least, plans for projects) on lesser-known conflicts, but then have the frustration of having to work out what ranges I can shoehorn in, so in this instance I'm hoping the first 13 pack release will be followed up by others.

And whilst there is time left yet - Merry Christmas one and all!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 25, 2019, 11:15:33 PM
If you want most of the key sources in the original best to work on your Portuguese. History is largely written by the victors as the old saw goes.

As for there being a large gaming contingent in South America, there isn’t, it’s miniscule but that would never have been the intended market.

Obscurity is a relative term and if your reading material is confined to what’s on the shelves at WH Smith then most things are likely to be obscure, save for intricate plots involving the Opus Dei, finding your fortune through positive thought and delving into the emotional turmoil that comes with walks along the beach at sunset and the steamy embraces that follow.  ;)

Obscure compared to the Napoleonic era or World War 2? Yes, doubtless so. Fortunately, the Perry twins and others have seen fit to expand the envelope and found markets beyond those with some connection to these rather ‘niche’ events. There are ranges for the ‘obscure’ Taiping rebellion, the bloodiest pre-20th century conflict. There are ranges for the Chaco War, the Maximillian Revolt in Mexico, The Carlist Wars, The so called ‘Kaffir Wars’, the South American Wars of Liberation, The Sugar Wars, the conquest of Dahomey, etc, etc, etc. Ask anyone outside of the UK, or even in the UK, about the War of the Roses and I’ll wager you draw blank stares. T’would be a sad old world if we were confined to the same old diet of Tiger tanks and La Haye Sainte, endlessly iterated in lead.

Truly we live in a gilded age of gaming.

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Siegfried on December 25, 2019, 11:55:03 PM
Not that obscure for those with an interest in conflicts not involving Americans or English. (I'd argue it has the same level of importance for the local inhabitants as say the American Civil War or the War of the Roses.)

As a native South American, I can confirm this is true. Plenty of people here know about the War of the Triple Alliance. For us, an obscure conflict would be something like the Wars of the Roses or the English Civil War. I only came to know about these conflicts thanks to my interest in wargaming and English history. But had I never had these interests, I doubt I would have ever known about these conflicts (which is sadly the case for many people over here in South America).

That said, as far as wargaming goes, I don't think it's wrong to say that the Paraguayan War is an obscure conflict. Given that most of the wargaming scene tends to be located around the Anglo-sphere, it's not surprising that, up until recently, conflicts like this one have received very little attention. And quite frankly, I can't blame wargame companies for that. Whether we like it or not, wargaming is at the end of the day just another business, so naturally, miniature manufacturers are going to produce miniatures that appeal to the interests of the majority of their customers. That's why, in my opinion, there's so much offer when it comes to European conflicts (no matter how small in scale they might have been) and so little offer when it comes to conflicts in South America, Africa, or Asia. Granted, this paradigm is slowly starting to change, and I'm certainly very glad about that. But then again, I don't think it's wrong for people on here to say that this is an obscure conflict because, from the perspective of the average wargamer living somewhere in the first world, he's probably never heard about the War of Triple Alliance.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Firescale Whack on December 26, 2019, 02:09:32 AM
This is exciting, I for one am glad to see the Perrys doing something other than Napoleonics or the WW2 for which they have been doing lots of lately. Their Cape wars range is very good and a lot more obscure I would have thought?
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on December 26, 2019, 03:05:10 AM
Sigh. And the Perrys finally get me. 28mm Sharpe Practice, here I come.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on December 26, 2019, 03:12:26 AM
Well, with regards to it being an obscure topic...

Look, this is a hobby where there are entire companies that make a living on selling you Weird War II mechas. What’s one man’s “obscure” is another man’s fantastic topic.

But going beyond that, yeah, you’d think there’d be SOME interest in this war, given the fact that the tech and the strategy was very similar to the U.S. Civil War, only you have tons more colorful troops, bunches of cavalry, and entire batteries of breechloading Armstrong rifles to play around with, not to mention everything from desperate skirmishes (including some really interesting fleet boarding actions) to large pitched battles.

Let me second Candido Lopez as THE visual source for this war and, indeed, for the tactics of the time in general. He was a much more observant and faithful portrayer of what he saw on the battlefield than any other contemporary artist I have seen, anywhere.

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 26, 2019, 03:27:48 AM
It also gives you a shit load of naming rights, everything from streets, neighbourhoods, town plazas and metro stations through to middle price department stores.  :D
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Cyrus the Great on December 26, 2019, 04:23:21 AM
Well I've waited about 50 years for this range. My interest was piqued from the short article in Tradition magazine. I just couldn't bring myself to do it in 15mm back in the day. I have followed the other attempts to do this range in 28mm, but they have either died on the vine or been slow to produce. I hope they do some Paraguayans wearing the chiripa. I have the uniform information. I just have to wait for the figures.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 26, 2019, 05:47:56 AM
I’m sure they will but even if they don’t there’s a very nice existing range of 28mm Paraguayans wearing a mix of clothing, including chiripás from fellow LAFer Nuno Pereira at Kingscarbine Miniatures:


http://kingscarbinepaintshop.blogspot.com/p/paraguayan-war-range.html
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Siaba on December 26, 2019, 08:13:42 AM
Well I've waited about 50 years for this range. My interest was piqued from the short article in Tradition magazine. I just couldn't bring myself to do it in 15mm back in the day. I have followed the other attempts to do this range in 28mm, but they have either died on the vine or been slow to produce. I hope they do some Paraguayans wearing the chiripa. I have the uniform information. I just have to wait for the figures.

First heard about it by a south american teacher at university 30 years ago. My curiosity was aroused by the fact that Paraguay male population was nearly extinguished and survivor had to resort to polygamy. Then I enjoyed the series of articles in Wargames Illustrated in the 90s. Until now, i have waited for an exhaustive range…even had bought hand made figures from a south american war gamer…
Even in my wildest dreams, i wouldn't have expected such a range to come from the Perry twins. As has been said elsewhere, they can allow themselves to produce a range for a very small market but I hope people will be interested by this fascinating conflict and make of this range a commercial success  ;)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Atheling on December 26, 2019, 08:40:43 AM
Personally speaking it's a great opportunity to poke my nose into a conflict that I have only heard a little about.

To be fair, I don't think I'll be purchasing any of the models in the immediate future, beauties that they are, rather I might be reading up on the subject with a view to possibly investing some time and money in the future.

i think it's great that companies like the Perry's have the flexibility to produce quality miniatures that expand into conflicts that are less well known outside the English speaking world  8)

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: TheBlackCrane on December 26, 2019, 08:52:32 AM
I’m sure they will but even if they don’t there’s a very nice existing range of 28mm Paraguayans wearing a mix of clothing, including chiripás from fellow LAFer Nuno Pereira at Kingscarbine Miniatures:


http://kingscarbinepaintshop.blogspot.com/p/paraguayan-war-range.html

Yes, but is it even available at the moment? Last I knew Kingscarbine was becoming Rifleman Miniatures, and I got a message in May that this was happening this year (2019) but nothing seems to have moved?
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: jambo1 on December 26, 2019, 08:58:43 AM
Yes, but is it even available at the moment? Last I knew Kingscarbine was becoming Rifleman Miniatures, and I got a message in May that this was happening this year (2019) but nothing seems to have moved?

I asked Nuno yesterday about the figures, the Paraguayan ones are still available and the range kicks off with more figures in February. :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 26, 2019, 09:09:07 AM
Try asking Nuno direct. Nice chap.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: TheBlackCrane on December 26, 2019, 09:26:45 AM
Oh I did earlier this year - hence the reply I had in May  :D

Just a bit wary as Capitan/Battlemodels/whatever they call themselves now never replied to any of my queries to them (about a different range) so never really got an idea of where things stood with the Rifleman Miniatures thing, but if one can order from the Kingscarbine blog site still then great! Cheers.

Anyway, sorry to have segued from the discussion of the Perry range.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Atheling on December 26, 2019, 09:46:58 AM
A question; more for reference really, but going on the scale of say the Perry Carlist War range, how would Kingscarbine /Rifleman Miniatures fit with the Perry range?
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shahbahraz on December 26, 2019, 11:44:41 AM
<snip>

By the by, if anyone is looking for painting references, aside from the battlefield paintings of Candido Lopez and the afore mentioned Foundry book the University of Toronto has published an online version of Barosso’s Uniformes do Exercito brasileiro, which is an excellent guide. Worth googling, the original goes for upwards of  $1,000 in mint condition.

Do you have a link for that online version? I tried Googling and there were lots of dodgy looking links.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Arthur on December 26, 2019, 12:33:44 PM
A question; more for reference really, but going on the scale of say the Perry Carlist War range, how would Kingscarbine /Rifleman Miniatures fit with the Perry range?

I'd wait a little before attempting to answer that question. Perry figures can vary in size and bulk even within a given range. Not long ago, I ordered a Perry Napoleonic French Old Guard Eclaireur command pack with the intention of using the officers as colonels and ADC's for both the Napoleonic wars and the 1st Carlist war. It turned out that the sculpts (Alan's) were noticeably bigger than the FCW figures (Michael's) and even some of Alan's earlier Napoleonics. 

Give Nuno a few weeks until the first batch of Perry figures is released and I am sure he'll produce some comparison pics.   

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 26, 2019, 01:57:35 PM
Do you have a link for that online version? I tried Googling and there were lots of dodgy looking links.

Hmm I can’t find it either now.

Fortunately the Federal University of Santa Catarina has stepped into the breach.

https://www.literaturabrasileira.ufsc.br/documentos/?action=download&id=83415

They might be drastically underfunded but the universities are still going...just. Download it before Bolsonaro recovers his memory and cuts their funding.*

Slightly quicker loading version here:

http://objdigital.bn.br/objdigital2/acervo_digital/div_iconografia/icon53157/icon53157.pdf





*Of course given the subject matter and the fact that the original author was a fascist and notorious anti-semite Bozo might well approve and bung them some extra cash.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shahbahraz on December 26, 2019, 04:37:38 PM
Thankyou for that!  Much appreciated.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Atheling on December 26, 2019, 05:57:00 PM
I'd wait a little before attempting to answer that question. Perry figures can vary in size and bulk even within a given range. Not long ago, I ordered a Perry Napoleonic French Old Guard Eclaireur command pack with the intention of using the officers as colonels and ADC's for both the Napoleonic wars and the 1st Carlist war. It turned out that the sculpts (Alan's) were noticeably bigger than the FCW figures (Michael's) and even some of Alan's earlier Napoleonics. 

Give Nuno a few weeks until the first batch of Perry figures is released and I am sure he'll produce some comparison pics.   

Sounds like a plan :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Cyrus the Great on December 26, 2019, 11:55:37 PM
I'm hoping the Perrys will provide a more comprehensive range; one not dependent on previous sales to provide the next release. I have to confess that marching poses really don't do anything for me regardless of who is producing them.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Codsticker on December 27, 2019, 12:45:30 AM
I wonder who had heard of it before this?
I can say I had heard of it but only due to Anthony Bourdain's Paraguay episode which sent me off to Wikipedia. :D
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Von Stroheim on December 27, 2019, 01:39:36 AM
 Must have been a while in the planning -this month's Wargame Illustrated has a large spread on the range including more painted examples.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on December 27, 2019, 02:02:28 AM
Y’know, until about a decade or so ago, you could still see the Rio de Janeiro’s smokestack in a tiny little pond near the Curupaiti battlefield. A Brazilian documentarist shot some footage of it in the 90s, IIRC. Most of the ironclad is probably still down there, more or less intact.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on December 27, 2019, 02:16:53 AM
The film is “ Guerra do Brasil - Toda a Verdade sobre a Guerra do Paraguai” by Sylvio Back, released in 1987. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPd1A_cFpiI

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me, thirty two years later, there’s a shot of what’s left of the Rio de Janeiro in there somewhere.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shahbahraz on December 27, 2019, 02:17:39 AM
Thanks Mac.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on December 27, 2019, 02:25:18 AM
Here’s a more recent documentary. Both give you a nice overview of the terrain, particularly the “hill” at Tuiuti, which like many similar elevations in the American Civil War, was very, very low, but absolutely dominated the surrounding terrain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXhP01zEZVQ
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on December 27, 2019, 02:41:05 AM
The best modern Portuguese history of the war is Maldita Guerra, by Doratioto. It puts to rest a lot of hoary myths: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3386435-maldita-guerra

If you can read Portuguese, the multivolume history of the war produced by the War Ministry in the 1980s will give you the history of every Brazilian unit that fought in the war. I have it, so if you want the history of a particular unit, I can ser if I can dig it up for you.

As for the Bahian Zoauves... they didn’t stay formed as a unit after Curupaty. They were disbanded — probably for political reasons. Eyewitnesses claim some of them were fighting capoeira style on the Paraguayan battlements during the failed assault, however.

One Brazilian battalion was armed with Dreyse needle guns, but they didn’t work so well, particularly in tropical climates. Eyewitnesses have Brazilian soldiers tossing them away after unsuccessfully trying to cock them by banging on the action with rocks. I thought this was a myth, but apparently the Dreyse DID have that problem when it overheated, ao that’s probably true.

For high drama, you can’t beat the failed Brazilian invasion of northern Paraguay through the Mato Grosso. Paraguayan cavalry actually broke a Brazilian square during one battle when the cattle in the middle of thr square stampeded in panic, frightened by the gunfire.

https://pt.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campanha_do_Mato_Grosso

That battle was particularly interesting, because several of the Afro Brazilian prostitutes who were with the column fought the Paraguayan cavalry to pull the Brazilian wounded to safety under the wagons.

Think about the modeling possibilities...
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 27, 2019, 02:58:24 AM
The best modern Portuguese history of the war is Maldita Guerra, by Doratioto. It puts to rest a lot of hoary myths: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3386435-maldita-guerra

That battle was particularly interesting, because several of the Afro Brazilian prostitutes who were with the column fought the Paraguayan cavalry to pull the Brazilian wounded to safety under the wagons.

Think about the modeling possibilities...

Well, I suppose the two options that spring to mind would be either a collection of wooden shacks perched on the edge of a steep incline, as a tribute to Mãe Preta‘s establishment on the Ladeira da Montanha or a selection of ladies perched on park benches between two statues, one depicting a bishop, the other Zumbi dos Palamares.  ;)

Up there with the idea of using samba school bandeiras as military standards for the 1711 invasion of Rio. I could never work out which unit to give Mangueira’s colours. :)
 
I second Maldita Guerra as a decent read. I’d also recommend Paulo de Queiroz’s multi-volume Os Voluntários da Pátria na guerra do Paraguai.

For English language intros and primers, the Foundry book by Terry Hooker is the stand out work. If nothing else it has an extensive and useful bibliography. I haven’t seen the Ospreys but I doubt they are worthwhile judging by recent Ospreys.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on December 27, 2019, 03:49:33 AM
Queiroz’s volumes are the ones I mention above. I just got one of the Osprey books. It seems to be written with a heavy Spanish-speaking bias, particularly with regards to Argentina. There are several factual errors I spotted out. Frex, a photo of a Brazilian company skirmishing which is labeled as occurring in Paraguay. My colleague’s photo volume on the war has it as occurring during training in Ouro Preto.

Not to be a Brazilian chauvinist, but the Argentineans basically took a powder during the second half of the war, so the Osprey books are missing a lot of useful stuff that is published in Portuguese.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on December 27, 2019, 06:57:40 AM
In English, you have a comprehensive history of the war in Thomas L. Whigham's two volume narrative. First volume, The Paraguayan War covers the precedents that lead to the war and the early operations. Second volume, The Road to Armaggedon, deals with the later part of the war, 1866-1870. Have been published by University of Calgary Press, in its 2nd edition. I bought them from Amazon -actually, were my 2018 Christmas presents!-.

One thing that I like of Whigham's books is that he explains the Paraguayan side of the story. Many other books, both in Spanish and in Portuguese, focus in Brazilian and Argentine experience and operations, while Paraguayans are secondary. Not in Whigham's. I haven't read Doratioto's yet, though, so maybe he has a wider approach to the topic too.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Spooner6wa on December 27, 2019, 07:23:21 AM
Thanks all for the research material.  I would love to get into this genre, but I have to echo previous sentiment.  I fear Perry’s will not make a reasonable comprehensive range.  I hold out hope they will, in which case you will see big Battalion games from me on this subject in 2020.

Chris
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Diablo Jon on December 27, 2019, 07:49:41 AM
Interesting war. Wargames Illustrated did a series of articles on this war back in the 90s IIRC which where a good read. Probably not something I'd invest my hobby budget on but as usual cracking miniatures from the Perry brothers.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 27, 2019, 09:45:30 AM
Frankly, I’m not sure what a comprehensive range would look like.

For, the Paraguayans, the infantry presented so far would cover most of their foot troops. Obviously you will need gunners and cavalry but the Paraguayan uniforms (increasingly non-uniform) were pretty basic. Apart from the Acá Carayá and Acá Vera regiments a couple of packs would suffice. Even the mounted escort and dragoons weren’t wearing anything much distinctive for long.

Brazilian infantry could really be divided into two main types. Line and Voluntários and even then the most notable difference would be the pleats on the latter’s blouses/jackets. Mix of headwear, kepis, side caps and hats and that will cover 9/10ths of it. The rest comes down to painting.

Similar deal with cavalry. Some in regulation kit, some in gaucho costume.

Argentina is even simpler and to be honest you can supplement figures from the range with the judicious use of the existing Perry ACW range. Cavalry would be one distinctive type that you would want covered, although you could source some proxies or conversion candidates from their Carlist range.

The Uruguayan contingent was small enough that a representative depiction of the Florida Regiment would meet most peoples needs.

I don’t think a lack of encyclopaedic coverage has prevented people from playing with the Perry Carlist and Cape Wars ranges.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: cram on December 27, 2019, 11:25:08 AM
Looks interesting! I've got way too much to focus on for now but who knows, this could become a future project of mine.

Had a feeling a new period was on the way, wish it was Seven Years War though, would have been HUGELY excited by that!!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on December 27, 2019, 12:18:27 PM

I don’t think a lack of encyclopaedic coverage has prevented people from playing with the Perry Carlist and Cape Wars ranges.

Indeed not, but I have chosen not to commit to any range that I don't believe it covers my personal needs. I hope you will give me your kindest permission to do so. Rest assured that I will refrain myself from any snarky comment regarding your choices.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 27, 2019, 08:05:46 PM
Neither snarky nor in reply to you. Read back old boy.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on December 28, 2019, 02:18:57 PM
Neither snarky nor in reply to you. Read back old boy.

Did. And I stand for my previous comment.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on December 28, 2019, 02:45:53 PM
Oh well, feel free to take umbrage at imagined slights if that’s what floats yer boat. I understand its a popular pastime these days.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on December 28, 2019, 03:48:27 PM
Oh well, feel free to take umbrage at imagined slights if that’s what floats yer boat. I understand its a popular pastime these days.

Usually, I don't take umbrage. Truth be told I can't say why this time is different. I only know that I found your post patronising and got triggered. It's not for anything you wrote in particular... Just the general tone, you know. To be honest, I am somewhat surprised that I felt angered, and more that I still do. It doesn't make much sense, I know.  :(
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Calimero on December 28, 2019, 05:46:54 PM

Obscurity ??? Don't you all remember when the South America countries united and try to attack/invade North America... or maybe it was just the plot of one of the season of The Last Ship... I'm not sure now...  :D
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Happy Wanderer on December 28, 2019, 09:35:16 PM
Regards what a comprehensive range ‘could’ look like this post on TMP outlined the planned for range by Kingcarbine - see the phase 2 list.

There’s quite a bit in there if a sculptor were to choose to go the whole-hog. It does provide us with a guide of potential wish list sculpts...a good deal more than I first thought.

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=313865

 ;)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Siaba on December 29, 2019, 09:19:52 AM
I'd wait a little before attempting to answer that question. Perry figures can vary in size and bulk even within a given range. Not long ago, I ordered a Perry Napoleonic French Old Guard Eclaireur command pack with the intention of using the officers as colonels and ADC's for both the Napoleonic wars and the 1st Carlist war. It turned out that the sculpts (Alan's) were noticeably bigger than the FCW figures (Michael's) and even some of Alan's earlier Napoleonics. 

Give Nuno a few weeks until the first batch of Perry figures is released and I am sure he'll produce some comparison pics.   

If it can help. Perry miniature on the left.

https://imagesia.com/i/QsniJ

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: nervisfr on December 29, 2019, 04:46:04 PM
I'm a little disappointed to see this new range but the Perrys gained the right to to what they want and don't rush to the easy way to make business....but it's not their goal with this range  ;)
They do what they like and i love that, even if i 'm not a big fan of these wars.

May be i'll use some of them to convert them into Maximilian's mexican rebels for example.
Tired to see always the Foundry for the job   lol lol

Great news indeed
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: TheBlackCrane on December 29, 2019, 06:13:26 PM

May be i'll use some of them to convert them into Maximilian's mexican rebels for example.
Tired to see always the Foundry for the job   lol lol

Great news indeed

Coincidence, that's what I have been thinking so I can put some Imperial Mexicans on the table against my Gringo40 Republicans!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: nervisfr on December 29, 2019, 06:19:29 PM
Coincidence, that's what I have been thinking so I can put some Imperial Mexicans on the table against my Gringo40 Republicans!

we are connected then !
i have used their Korean range for my old west Peons so why not  o_o
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Happy Wanderer on December 29, 2019, 11:40:39 PM
For those interested in gaming the period as ‘battle games’, Fire and Fury did a very nice free online supplement. It gives unit trait, weapon and organisational details. Very useful.  ;)

FYI

http://www.fireandfury.com/rffsupport/rffwta.shtml

Happy W
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: vodkafan on December 30, 2019, 03:19:53 AM
I thought about doing either this, or the Pacific War of 1879 about 18 months ago but then went off the idea.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on December 31, 2019, 12:26:47 AM
If you want to do big battles on a topic like this, but don’t want to invest too much, O8’s 3mm range is your ticket.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: FreakyFenton on December 31, 2019, 03:14:15 AM
Lovely looking miniatures  :o
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: swiftnick on December 31, 2019, 09:06:20 AM
I am looking forward to this range. The Paraguayan war was strangely popular in the late 80s. A load of us had armies of the Freikorp figures. Wargames Foundry doing a range was often talked about but never happened.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: MGH on December 31, 2019, 11:18:57 PM
I did it in 10mm. The Paraguayans were outnumbered and outclassed equipment wise but they put up an awesome resistance. Some of the battles were truly bloodbaths. I've used a few sets of rules but most recently Bloody Big Battles to recreate a couple of the historical battles.
Lot of fun.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Pictors Studio on December 31, 2019, 11:22:32 PM
This will do me in.  I had swore not to start another historical period. And definitely not with metal figures.  And definitely not in 28mm.

I guess I'm breaking that vow. 

If they do Tai Ping rebellion next I'm in real financial trouble. 
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: MGH on December 31, 2019, 11:28:35 PM
Know your pain, Pictor.

I can't afford 28mms for anything other than skirmish.

But I'm a huge fan of the Taiping Rebellion too. Years back I assembled a large 15mm collection for it and still play games with them on occasion. A fascinating war. 
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 01, 2020, 12:59:16 AM
This will do me in.  I had swore not to start another historical period. And definitely not with metal figures.  And definitely not in 28mm.

I guess I'm breaking that vow. 

If they do Tai Ping rebellion next I'm in real financial trouble.

They did the Taiping rebellion already. Foundry.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: vtsaogames on January 01, 2020, 01:11:40 AM
I did it in 10mm. The Paraguayans were outnumbered and outclassed equipment wise but they put up an awesome resistance. Some of the battles were truly bloodbaths. I've used a few sets of rules but most recently Bloody Big Battles to recreate a couple of the historical battles.
Lot of fun.

Are your scenarios posted?
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Cyrus the Great on January 01, 2020, 09:50:55 PM
There is a good book on this subject in English, "Independence or Death! The Story of the Paraguayan War" by Charles J. Kolinski. You can still find copies, but they're not cheap.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Siaba on January 05, 2020, 09:11:21 AM
Wargames Illustrated made available the original articles about the great Paraguayan war:

https://www.wargamesillustrated.net/the-war-of-the-triple-alliance/
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Diablo Jon on January 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Wargames Illustrated made available the original articles about the great Paraguayan war:

https://www.wargamesillustrated.net/the-war-of-the-triple-alliance/

All the old adverts in those articles takes me back to the days when pouring over adverts in wargames magazines, with no photos, and sending a list of codes with a cheque in the post was how you got your miniatures  o_o
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: nicknorthstar on January 05, 2020, 01:23:52 PM
I've recently being playing about with using our African rules (Death in the Dark Continent) for ACW. Seems a bit odd, but I've just been treating both sides as European Soldiers. I'm enjoying it, and I think it'll be even more suitable for this war, so I might get two armies painted up. You wouldn't need that many figures.

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 05, 2020, 01:34:51 PM
I've not heard the term ‘Great Paraguayan War’ before.
In Brazil it’s known primarily as the Guerra do Paraguai. In Argentina it’s either Guerra del Paraguay or La Guerra de la Triple Alianza. Only the Paraguayans refer to it as the Guerra Grande and naturally enough they don’t feel the need for a geographic qualification to the name.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 05, 2020, 02:40:41 PM
“Great Paraguayan War” sounds to me like something an English speaking scholar relying primarily on Paraguayan sources would use.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Cat on January 05, 2020, 04:52:00 PM
“Great Paraguayan War” sounds to me like something an English speaking scholar relying primarily on Paraguayan sources would use.

It sounds like a good marketing choice to make the conflict sound more puffed up for gaming.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: italwars on January 05, 2020, 09:29:45 PM
Just my thought ...but what a waste of geniality , creativity, resources and energy in such a poor appealing subject  :'( :'( :'(
Only hope that, maybe the Argentines, for what i see, the only slightly interesting uniforms and subjects also from an historical point of view, could be used maybe as French Republicans for 1871 Franco-Prussian continuation war..or, as a last resort or better just to settle, as General Rojas Army in the Conquest of the Desert War against mounted Indios of the Pampas...just cause i like colonial or assymetrical wars...but for the rest i cannot understand why , as they were looking for exotic, not to do a full NWF range, some more French Colonial..even US Colonial Banana Wars...
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 05, 2020, 10:07:45 PM
It sounds like a good marketing choice to make the conflict sound more puffed up for gaming.

It may not be your cup of tea, granted, but the war needs no puffing up for gaming: it has everything from skirmishes to pitched large battles using ACW level technology on new and different terrain with cavalry being much more important than in North America.

It was a very large war by this hemisphere’s standards — larger than anything the U.S. fought, outside of the ACW, up to WWI.

Hey, I am not interested in the Cape Wars or the Boxer Rebellion, but I can see the appeal: they are both interesting conflicts. Not my cuppa, but no need to “puff them up” or this one either.

Quote
Just my thought ...but what a waste of geniality , creativity, resources and energy in such a poor appealing subject  :'( :'( :'(

Just my thought, but what’s  appearing here is a general lack of knowledge and interest in South American history, and again, fine. Cool. But I wouldn’t make it more than that. As for this being a niche or “poorly appealing” subject, there are two obvious rejoinders:

1) The Perrys are rich enough and famous enough (at least in our little hobby) that they can do whatever the hell they like. I am not interested in the Carlist Wars, nor are most gamers, but hey, they did an entire range for that, didn’t they? To use a metaphor from music, this is Dolly Parton doing a bluegrass album. It ain’t no “9-to-5”, but that’s not the point: Dolly can do whatever she wants and those of us who like bluegrass and Dolly are absolutely thrilled she did, even if the album didn’t make her a boatload of cash.

2) Look around: there are literally tons of lead locked up in “appealing” lines, which would be the ACW, WWII, fantasy, Napoleonics, etc. If I were the Perrys, I’d be heartily bored doing that stuff and, given my druthers, I’d do pretty much anything else, just for a change of pace.

The Argentineans are the only interesting subjects...? Yeah, maybe  they are: for Argentineans. :D One would think an Italian would at least appreciate Garibaldi’s role in the history of Southern Brazil and note that many of the miniatures in this line will be able to be used in the asymmetric civil wars of that region, which bled into this war. :)

Argentina wasn’t even around for half the war, by the way. The Paraguayans out did them, by far, in terms of valor, and the Brazilians and Uruguayans, by far, in terms of color and (by not so far) professionalism.

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Westfalia Chris on January 06, 2020, 05:45:47 AM
In accordance with the no politics rule, I removed a couple of postings that, while tangentially related, veered off from the topic in question and were devolving into known slugging-match territory.

Kindly concern yourselves with the topic at hand, and for reference, italwars, we've had this talk before. We don't really want to go through all that again.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on January 06, 2020, 10:02:06 AM
What I hope is that they produce models in more dynamic poses, particularly charging/advancing and skirmishing. I am not that familiar with the topic to know if other poses -at trail and at the double, for instance- are historically accurate, i.e. were included in their field manuals by the belligerents. Does anyone know if the belligerents used field manuals adapted from foreign manuals, or were developed locally?

I agree with other that South America Wars are a topic sadly underrepresented in the wargaming community. I would really, really like to see the Perrys expanding their Napoleonic ranges into the wars of independence of South America, and, of course, the War of the Pacific. I, for one, wouldn't feel it a waste of talent and imagination. Quite the opposite.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Cubs on January 06, 2020, 10:12:13 AM
A bunch of good stuff.

Very nicely put sir.

Yup, it's not anything that appeals to me, but if I'm honest that covers the majority of subjects these days. The Perry's do what they like to do and if that's a niche subject, then perhaps their sculpting attention (and thus the roused curiosity of others) is all the more welcome by those who are already interested.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 06, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
I am pretty sure that the Brazilians, at least, used French drill manuals or their own manuals, which would have been heavily based on French drill manuals.

“But wait a minute!”, I hear you saying. “Wasn’t Portugal a British ally in the Napoleonic Wars?”

Yes, but this was the height of Francophilia in Rio de Janeiro and Brazil had just had an almost war with Britain. Diplomatic relations were rocky over slavery and any number of things, so — while I can’t say for certain without digging up the Voluntários da Pátria books (currently boxed for our upcoming move) — I’d lay a good solid bet that the drill books were French or French-inspired.

The Brazilians formed square numerous times in the war and you can see them doing by-the-book skirmish lines and assault columns in Lopez’ paintings and the photos. Looks very French to me.

Dynamic poses would be cool, because as I said above, there’s a lot of skirmishing and raiding and guerrilha style warfare going on in the Plata  Basin during this period. The Gaucho cavalry, at least, should be very useful for that sort of thing!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shahbahraz on January 06, 2020, 12:30:57 PM
It seems to me the kind of conflict that would be ideal for Sharp Practice - especially as a campaign you could fight over ironclads, fortifications etc, and with some real characters.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Armstrong47 on January 06, 2020, 04:18:18 PM
I'm definitely going to start with "Sharp Practice",and see how the range developes before building more substantial forces.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 06, 2020, 04:38:58 PM
I'm definitely going to start with "Sharp Practice",and see how the range developes before building more substantial forces.

That’s my intention as well and I’ll mount them on sabots to use for V&B.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shahbahraz on January 06, 2020, 06:59:39 PM
Get thee behind me Santa.. errr.. Satan.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Easy E on January 06, 2020, 09:34:17 PM
I am very glad they are looking into this period.  Bolivar and the various South American Wars are really interesting in that they were using European styles with native geography and tactics.

I believe the Podcast Revolutions covers the Liberator and his campaigns in some detail.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Volleyfire! on January 07, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
So long as they keep drip-feeding us with figures to pad out their other ranges, especially WW2 I'm happy. Otherwise, I think this is just a period my group I game with won't have any passing interest in I'm afraid, we already cover a multitude of eras, genres and scales, so many that we are spoilt for choice, in fact probably too many to be perfectly honest. I'm sure it'll be a hit, and no doubt we'll soon see the first game using these figures later in the year at Partizan or something.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: italwars on January 07, 2020, 04:17:33 PM
Maybe I m, as always , against the tide..but from my feeling I m almost sure they ll sell a number close to nothing for those first sets of the range..and that s will be a good new for me as, as a consequence, they ll stop the project and come back again to fill the gaps of their other interesting ranges ...practically all their production except Carlist War..I read that they even failed to sell many of the beautiful boxes of Plastic Dervishes..which i m sorry about that cause they were , for me, a greatly appreciated surprise ..but that s the market..on the other hand they continued to issue Napoleonics minis ..which is, for me, also extremely boring, possibly not to study as period , but  to paint and game..but the market asked for that
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Captain Blood on January 07, 2020, 04:36:34 PM
I m almost sure they ll sell a number close to nothing for those first sets of the range..and that s a good new for me as, as a consequence, they ll stop the project and come back again to fill the gaps of their other interesting ranges ...practically all their production except Carlist War..

We shall see. As I ventured right at the top of the thread, this is a niche subject relative to the wargames market as a whole. But Alan and Michael have a long track record of making things that please them - even if they know they're not going to be commercial. So I wouldn't bet on them stopping the project. They're incredibly prolific. They'll just carry on with it for their own amusement - and carry on expanding their other, perhaps more commercially rewarding ranges, at the same time :)

There's always a groundswell of enthusiasm for any innovative new setting or conflict, with plenty of people enthusiastically swearing they're going all in for it. Fairly sure that doesn't always translate into sales though. There was much enthusiasm for one or two of the previous, more esoteric Perry outings. Yet how many games do you see around set in the Carlist Wars or the 'British Intervention Force'? Not many.
But... The figures from those ranges do get picked up and used by many wargamers for many other purposes: Imaginations, VSF and so on. So they'll certainly sell enough I'm sure.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shahbahraz on January 07, 2020, 04:42:38 PM
I would be interested to understand the economics of it, how many do you need to sell to break even? There are a lot of hidden costs like samples, transport, show costs, packaging  etc. That would all have to be factored in.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Eric the Shed on January 07, 2020, 05:30:38 PM
I read that they even failed to sell many of the beautiful boxes of Plastic Dervishes..

Can't believe this as the Sudan is a very popular period. Can you provide a link?

 
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: AKULA on January 07, 2020, 06:37:33 PM
I would be interested to understand the economics of it, how many do you need to sell to break even? There are a lot of hidden costs like samples, transport, show costs, packaging  etc. That would all have to be factored in.

Without derailing the thread, it depends primarily upon the cost of the sculptor, and the production material - metal, resin or plastic.

Many of the “hidden” marketing costs are pretty minimal, if you plan ahead, or if you’ve got an existing range(s) that a new release can piggyback.

Without giving too many numbers, if I planned a new release with a well-known sculptor, using a top caster, for metal figures and a set of master & production moulds, then my breakeven might still be anywhere between 100-200 castings....but again it would depend upon the exact cost of the sculptor, how many figures I released at the same time, how many figures per mould, what the sale price per figure was etc etc

The biggest cost with a new range is the sculptor, but given this is their company & their time, the break even run for a new release may well be surprisingly small.

 ;)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 07, 2020, 07:36:36 PM
Can't believe this as the Sudan is a very popular period. Can you provide a link?

I also have a hard time believing this, I've seen them in a lot of game shops over here and I see them being used all the time in scratchbuilds for fantasy/medieval/other "periods" which have nothing to do with the Sudan (as well as other Colonial kitbashes, obviously).
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Captain Blood on January 07, 2020, 07:54:54 PM
I heard the same thing - I think, though it could be my memory playing tricks on me - from Michael Perry directly. I was suggesting a plastic set of Pathans to him, and I’m pretty sure his response was that the Mahdists hadn’t been as good a seller as expected, so they would need to think carefully about future colonial sets, given the significant cash investment required to bring a plastic kit to market.

To be fair, this was probably 3 or 4 years ago, since when they’ve released two British colonial infantry sets, plus the Zulu set. So maybe sales of the plastic Ansar picked up enough to justify the later sets.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Arthur on January 07, 2020, 08:32:44 PM
Maybe I m, as always , against the tide..but from my feeling I m almost sure they ll sell a number close to nothing for those first sets of the range..and that s will be a good new for me as, as a consequence, they ll stop the project and come back again to fill the gaps of their other interesting ranges

 ::) ::)

You DO realise not everything revolves around your personal tastes, desires and opinions, do you ?

There was much enthusiasm for one or two of the previous, more esoteric Perry outings. Yet how many games do you see around set in the Carlist Wars or the 'British Intervention Force'? Not many.

I certainly agree about the BIF, though I suspect Alan Perry would have been the first to admit he essentially sculpted the range for his personal enjoyment and did not really expect it to sell particularly well, or even at all.

I think you're selling the first Carlist War short though : there have been a fair few FCW games on the British show circuit over the last decade, some of them quite large, and there are still people doing the period to this day, including LAFer's Roger C. and Nuno/King's Carbine (obviously, as he is currently planning a big Mendigorria bash for Salute 2020), in addition to a few others. Granted, the period is nowhere near to becoming 'mainstream' (whatever that may mean) and it never will be but I think it still boasts a core of dedicated enthusiasts who are making it more than just a wargaming oddity.     
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: italwars on January 07, 2020, 10:04:19 PM
::) ::)

You DO realise not everything revolves around your personal tastes, desires and opinions, do you ?


of Course i do...but i cannot succeeded up today in holding back my typical gemini lunatic and provocative characteristics  ;) ;) :) :) :D
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: italwars on January 07, 2020, 10:24:32 PM
Without derailing the thread, it depends primarily upon the cost of the sculptor, and the production material - metal, resin or plastic.

Many of the “hidden” marketing costs are pretty minimal, if you plan ahead, or if you’ve got an existing range(s) that a new release can piggyback.

Without giving too many numbers, if I planned a new release with a well-known sculptor, using a top caster, for metal figures and a set of master & production moulds, then my breakeven might still be anywhere between 100-200 castings....but again it would depend upon the exact cost of the sculptor, how many figures I released at the same time, how many figures per mould, what the sale price per figure was etc etc

The biggest cost with a new range is the sculptor, but given this is their company & their time, the break even run for a new release may well be surprisingly small.

 ;)

Akula interestings feedback and i do not think you're derailing the post...from what i read, many many years ago, probably in Miniature Wargame magazine and almost sure from an interview to the boss of Wargame  Foundry...the breakeven was 150 castings each of the same subject...but we are talking about just breakeven ...and then????...maybe, and probably,  the interest and demand would deflate..even if we talk about British Colonials or Zulus...let's think about more "out of the beaten path" subjects...from my personal experience my Italwars 28mm Italian Colonial line...about 1999-2002 went well certainly more than 150 castings per subject...with more than half customers from abroad (which was my main target and pleasure to deal with)..but my following 20mm Italian Mountain  Front WW1 specialist Alpini and Kaiserjager Standeschutzen types...carefully researched and beautifully made did'nt went so good....Cannot understand why but the Alpini were moderatly succesful in Italy while nobody care a bit about my far more detailed and also iconic Austrian Tyrolese Mountain troops....
On the other hand...here i managed to find and still can enjoy the services of a pair of good sculptors at a moderate price while the cost, quality, reliability of more than one mould makers was similar to a true extorsion...that's one of the main reasons why i gave up or at least put temporary aside my venture...
I understand , as somebody said, that Perry Brothers had already earn some well deserved money , are talented and quick and, not last, UK has some very good and honest casters but to plan, research, make, let's produce, check and chek again plus advertise a new range ist still a very big energy expendure even if you do just cause you like the period and do not care about ineducated and rough tastes of the mass....as i did with my 20mm WW1 Italian Front minis...
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 07, 2020, 11:59:34 PM
Yeah, well, the Perrys gonna do what the Perrys gonna do. They have a lot more access to sculpting and molding equipment and talent, as well as capital, than Italwars did, I reckon.

Hell, there used to be a miniatures pirate here in Rio named Jorge Bientes. Jorge had his own mold making equipment and centerfuge out in Duque de Caxias in a housing project. He’d copy off GW stuff like mad and made a fair good living doing it, even though he never got beyond the “selling to a handful of gaming nutter friends” stage.

What I am trying to say is that if you are a talented sculptor with a life time’s experience and can produce a green faster than most people can paint a figure, and you have access to molding and casting equipment, already paid for, all you really need to pay for is the labor of someone to spin your casts and the raw materials. That brings costs waaaaaay down.

The Perrys have all of that.

(Note: this isn’t a defense of piracy. In fact, for years I and the people at Devir tried to convince Jorge to go legit. It would have been easy to do! But Jorge was.... well, relaxed, let’s say. He just wanted to spin enough figures to sustain his living expenses and etc. Brazil really lost a great chance to get minis started when Jorge decided he just didn’t have the ambition to make a professional go of it.)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Volleyfire! on January 08, 2020, 08:11:05 AM
As a comparison I once asked Peter Berry at Baccus if he could do some Piedmontese light cavalry with lances for Risorgimento and he replied yes.... if I was willing to buy the first, I think it was 30, packs in order to make it worthwhile i.e. break-even costs wise, or find buyers for the other 28 packs since I only wanted about 2. So for fairly obscure or less popular periods there is always going to be that question at the back of the commercial manufacturer's mind, "Is this worth doing and will it pay for itself?".
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Malamute on January 08, 2020, 03:00:12 PM
I heard the same thing - I think, though it could be my memory playing tricks on me - from Michael Perry directly. I was suggesting a plastic set of Pathans to him, and I’m pretty sure his response was that the Mahdists hadn’t been as good a seller as expected, so they would need to think carefully about future colonial sets, given the significant cash investment required to bring a plastic kit to market.

To be fair, this was probably 3 or 4 years ago, since when they’ve released two British colonial infantry sets, plus the Zulu set. So maybe sales of the plastic Ansar picked up enough to justify the later sets.

Perry Plastic Afghans/Pathans just became a reality. Photos up on Facebook.  Looks like the Mahdists weren't such bad sellers after all!  :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on January 08, 2020, 03:01:03 PM
Speaking of Perry and Colonials: next range in plastic will be Afghans.

https://www.facebook.com/perryminiatures/?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARCrv85cbdOe9so1TK4DiYsWFjAblqBc3Tw79OXNCvBZGLFW7JsZ_M3OSVtRsjRZkSjjMh4shrm_wFJu&hc_ref=ARRWxgY_vRN5VjUOjklwFPgGwkzXv3D0Mr9mtvNUL9V6RzjXR7My-MjGPLqlCf1TwKo&fref=nf

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on January 08, 2020, 03:01:25 PM
Perry Plastic Afghans/Pathans just became a reality. Photos up on Facebook.  Looks like the Mahdists weren't such bad sellers after all!  :)

You beat me for seconds!  lol
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Captain Blood on January 08, 2020, 03:56:28 PM
I heard the same thing - I think, though it could be my memory playing tricks on me - from Michael Perry directly. I was suggesting a plastic set of Pathans to him, and I’m pretty sure his response was that the Mahdists hadn’t been as good a seller as expected, so they would need to think carefully about future colonial sets, given the significant cash investment required to bring a plastic kit to market.

To be fair, this was probably 3 or 4 years ago, since when they’ve released two British colonial infantry sets, plus the Zulu set. So maybe sales of the plastic Ansar picked up enough to justify the later sets.

Perry Plastic Afghans/Pathans just became a reality. Photos up on Facebook.  Looks like the Mahdists weren't such bad sellers after all!  :)

Yep, how's that for serendipitous timing lol
Clearly the passage of a few years has changed the great man's mind. And no doubt the cheeky appearance of plastic insurgent, Wargames Atlantic, has caused them to bring this announcement forward.
That or my comment yesterday  ;)
:D

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=121958.msg1530387#new
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Arthur on January 08, 2020, 05:27:41 PM
(https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82585730_2480427732079318_568516411425554432_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQl9B8V-e69sHOCQXiE64It7L1dqijfTi0z_we8TVrAbAWT7NPx97JjSbZQt0fZEIlAndnMMUFsJ2Fz_DVZVnphH&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=b51f3b42421cc084f54ab90902650e68&oe=5EB225B3)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Marine0846 on January 08, 2020, 05:52:02 PM
Wow, lovely figures.
I have some of the Perry metal guys.
I have always said that they were some of the best they have done.
Might be enough to get me back into painting that period.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shahbahraz on January 08, 2020, 06:22:45 PM
Oh. They look nice. Not that I need any...
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 08, 2020, 07:32:41 PM
So there will now be two sets of plastic Afghans coming out in 2020. Spoiled for choice really. Hopefully either the Perry twins or Wargames Atlantic will have the wit to add some SMLEs so that they can be used up until the 1930s.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Poiter50 on January 09, 2020, 01:03:35 AM
Use arms from any of the British WW2 ranges in plakky, may need a small amount of green stuff and sharp knife to disguise cuffs, buttons etc. Perhaps even a captured Bren?

So there will now be two sets of plastic Afghans coming out in 2020. Spoiled for choice really. Hopefully either the Perry twins or Wargames Atlantic will have the wit to add some SMLEs so that they can be used up until the 1930s.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 09, 2020, 02:35:19 AM
Now if someone would just get the Perrys to do a line of cangaceiros, I could die happy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangaço

(https://i.postimg.cc/vTFJYH61/363-B640-B-5-A61-4-FEA-A6-FE-1-F08-EC2-D8-F96.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qxnq1Y0m/525-E21-BC-56-C4-490-E-AED8-6-B056-B511489.jpg)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: argsilverson on January 09, 2020, 03:13:49 AM
Now if someone would just get the Perrys to do a line of cangaceiros, I could die happy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangaço

(https://i.postimg.cc/vTFJYH61/363-B640-B-5-A61-4-FEA-A6-FE-1-F08-EC2-D8-F96.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qxnq1Y0m/525-E21-BC-56-C4-490-E-AED8-6-B056-B511489.jpg)

Yes that would be very interesting
wargaming Lampiao!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: von Lucky on January 09, 2020, 08:05:57 AM
That would also be cool, there was a series of articles in Wargames Illustrated in the early 1990s titled "O Cangaceiro" on the subject.

Found them here:
https://docplayer.net/70690127-Lampiao-bandit-king-of-brazil-by-mike-bell-in-december-1916-virgulino-and-one-ofhis-brothen-levino-lampiao-was-such-a-man.html
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 09, 2020, 08:25:21 AM
Want to stump up some cash? I know someone prepared to make them, have a lot of material for the sculptor to work from and I’m happy to put in a wad myself. Lampião, Maria Bonita, Corisco and of course an obligatory Othon Bastos version of Corisco. I reckon I’d also want an Antonio das Mortes/ not Maurico do Valle figure and one of Coirana as a tribute to Glauber Rocha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiD4ZnyDAdo Love that film.

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: argsilverson on January 09, 2020, 12:18:00 PM
Many years ago I read a book on Lampiao (maybe by Jorge Amado?) and eversince I wanted to have some minis for that.
In the meantime Cangaceiro is a folk myth in Brazil or so I am informed , since neither I am Brazilian nor I speak Portuguese in fact I live very far away, and there are a lot of music and films about the cangaceiro legend. Notable is Joan Baez song (in 1964 album No 5) and of course the film " O Cangaceiro" of 1953!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045595/


By the way does anyone know how the Brazilian police uniforms looked like in 1930's ?

I just noticed the board where this post is. Wrong time
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 09, 2020, 01:20:35 PM
The police fighting the cangaceiros in the nordeste dressed, as often as not, in the folk styles of the interior, in other words they looked not unlike the cangaceiros themselves. The formal uniform for the various states police generally tended to follow military lines, khaki tunics and peaked caps. In the field oft mixed with civilian gear.

Top photo shows police from Sergipe at the Gruta de Angico with the corpse of Maria Bonita. This is where Lampião and most of his band were killed

The police were supplemented by what were effectively vigilante posses. I’ve attached a photo of one such group from Bahia at the bottom.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 09, 2020, 01:44:54 PM
Wow! I didn’t know about that article, or the Joan Baez song! Thanks guys!

Carlos, why yes, depending upon the amount (and even with our shitty exchange rate), I might be interested! Pity I lost track of Jorge, because we COULD launch the first miniatures line in Brazil!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 09, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
Fond as I an of Ms Baez, it’s hard to beat José Pacheco’s Arrival of Lampião in Hell. The clip accompanying it has some well known footage of Lampião from circa 1936. It also shows a little of the vegetation found in the sertão of North East Brazil, which will probably come as a surprise to those with visions of lush tropical forest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubq5lOJew4g
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 09, 2020, 08:42:55 PM


Here’s my favorite song on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmXUQ1-6f9c
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 09, 2020, 08:46:15 PM
And, of course, cangaceiros would be of use for the Canudos campaign as well.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 10, 2020, 03:36:47 AM
Sometimes when I wish to tease my son about his hair, I call him Chico Science Experiment.  Bad parent, I know.  :(

Not sure cangaceiros would work for Canudos, they would need to look a lot more like everyday civvies IMO. The army could probably be made with a mash-up of Perry plastic ACW, Zulu War and possibly DAK figures.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: italwars on January 10, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
Joan baetz  ecc :'( :'( :'( :'( ...better jump to 18 century guerre en dentelle wargame section of the forum and listen Vivaldi’s music to recover the aesthetics sense of my delicate deep blue eyes and my sensible ears
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Macunaima on January 10, 2020, 05:14:46 PM
Nah. Vivaldi’s far too repetitive for my tastes.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: marco55 on January 11, 2020, 08:53:37 PM
I've been interested in South American conflicts,especially The "Conquest of the Desert" in 1870's Argentina so I joined some FB groups,
 https://www.facebook.com/groups/2205942949473105/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/597819740596422/?multi_permalinks=1033790170332708%2C1033333360378389%2C1033281507050241%2C1033270277051364%2C1032914147086977&notif_id=1578267902400540&notif_t=group_activity
https://www.facebook.com/groups/251807168695963/
Mark
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Armstrong47 on January 15, 2020, 09:36:47 AM
Does  anyone know the release date?
The Perry's FB page says "later in January",but I was wondering if anyone has a more specific date.

Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Ben Waterhouse on January 15, 2020, 09:55:52 AM
Maybe I m, as always , against the tide..but from my feeling I m almost sure they ll sell a number close to nothing for those first sets of the range..and that s will be a good new for me as, as a consequence, they ll stop the project and come back again to fill the gaps of their other interesting ranges ...practically all their production except Carlist War..I read that they even failed to sell many of the beautiful boxes of Plastic Dervishes..which i m sorry about that cause they were , for me, a greatly appreciated surprise ..but that s the market..on the other hand they continued to issue Napoleonics minis ..which is, for me, also extremely boring, possibly not to study as period , but  to paint and game..but the market asked for that
So you want a range to fail purely for your own selfish reasons? Charming...
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Ben Waterhouse on January 15, 2020, 10:00:21 AM
Well I've waited about 50 years for this range. My interest was piqued from the short article in Tradition magazine. I just couldn't bring myself to do it in 15mm back in the day. I have followed the other attempts to do this range in 28mm, but they have either died on the vine or been slow to produce. I hope they do some Paraguayans wearing the chiripa. I have the uniform information. I just have to wait for the figures.

Exactly my position, I am really looking forward to this range using Neil Thomas’ Nineteenth Century rules
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: JollyBob on January 16, 2020, 04:23:22 PM
Does  anyone know the release date?
The Perry's FB page says "later in January",but I was wondering if anyone has a more specific date.

Cheers
Andy

Out today, according to the Perry email newsletter.  :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on January 16, 2020, 05:49:02 PM
It's out now and I am very tempted, to be honest.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Armstrong47 on January 16, 2020, 05:57:05 PM
Out today, according to the Perry email newsletter.  :)
Thanks very much for the info.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Armstrong47 on January 16, 2020, 05:59:20 PM
It's out now and I am very tempted, to be honest.
I've just given in to temptation!!  8)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Cat on January 16, 2020, 06:15:02 PM
I will certainly be happy to se photos of games, or to play in one if anyone else has painted them up!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Atheling on January 16, 2020, 07:13:45 PM
They're up on the Perry site now:

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/index.php?cPath=23_105 (https://www.perry-miniatures.com/index.php?cPath=23_105)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Arthur on January 16, 2020, 07:14:39 PM
I will certainly be happy to se photos of games, or to play in one if anyone else has painted them up!

You mean something like this ?

(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83166456_2497637020358389_1635456111035285504_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQkSDSb5xMYS-zSOTUkPqXDQJaJBAmoNwRIrENC-MPa6UqWkKeX-wFXx53UNV44vS4iaUdoDpzq9FN5HpdnYkSqc&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=ca4de6d8a0882fcb37656ce09561da68&oe=5EAA2EFA)


(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82744444_2497628743692550_8719148189178920960_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQlHlpZhaN_oFCo0o-z-49SV5nuQif7SH7RohtYDGvlDd7XIFQYXqh7oDmKsyx7TOVTuHPFAxt40V2WcM5dmO34H&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=8e786cb99217ef78c168d5e4ce6d4c93&oe=5E8E7D06)

(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82083015_2497638380358253_8694994560121569280_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQl6CCkqU79VbpXMT5W_-8cVptq2EPK09WlYPyz_gmMzveNvKWY_uUbwpTH_oRjGIaCJHAIhpTGaWuRqvZqlyaei&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=c8058b953af916b0d219b890e2bd60db&oe=5ED277B4)

(http://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82527718_2497637810358310_6203769634152251392_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQn4YqUP95P8j8FoB3IPj648OoiSzfkOaAkjnFF2m9eM8zwqS2QdP_47qDAX-WmjFVDc2aQa1TTIWi8AtxT1hLOj&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg2-1.xx&oh=a0e07f96822c8b4276a5ecef1c75fb87&oe=5EDC0A53)

(Okay, admittedly not real game pics, but give the Twins a bit of time and they'll get round to it). 
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: FreakyFenton on January 16, 2020, 11:30:05 PM
Amazing scenic shots though!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on January 17, 2020, 12:31:38 AM
Leaving aside the near total absence of date palms in Mato Grosso do Sul and eastern Paraguay, they do indeed look superb.  :-*
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Atheling on January 17, 2020, 07:43:55 AM
Leaving aside the near total absence of date palms in Mato Grosso do Sul and eastern Paraguay, they do indeed look superb.  :-*

Yeah, they are absolutely brilliant sculpts. I'm hanging onto my cash though! So very tempting but I know they would just join the lead planet!!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: jambo1 on January 17, 2020, 05:52:31 PM
Very nice!! Very tempting but one for the future..... maybe!! :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: marco55 on January 18, 2020, 01:19:43 AM
They really look good.The Perry's have a knack for getting you interested in a period.I must resist! lol
Mark
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Happy Wanderer on January 18, 2020, 04:54:38 AM
Folks,

For those interested in gaming the The Great Paraguayan War using the new Perry Miniatures range of figures, or any other figures for that matter, I have compiled some thoughts on the topic and am providing complete Rebels & Patriots army lists for the respective forces of each side ie Paraguay, Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay.

Please feel free to use, amend, comment if you feel they are of use or could be tweaked if you feel something is amiss.

Regards

Happy Wanderer

https://wp.me/p1YrZG-1RC

(https://agrabbagofgames.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/r-p-cover-blog.jpg?w=1200&h=836&crop=1)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on January 18, 2020, 06:06:41 PM
@Happy Wanderer

Thanks! Very useful!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: von Lucky on January 18, 2020, 08:25:19 PM
Same. I'm looking forward to picking up an initial order soon.

And I'm loving the fact they've done uniform guides. Really makes it less daunting.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Atheling on January 18, 2020, 09:34:30 PM
Same. I'm looking forward to picking up an initial order soon.

Get them ASAP. The castings will be really crisp ;)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Romark on January 18, 2020, 10:38:14 PM
Very useful,thanks fpr posting  :)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: marco55 on January 25, 2020, 05:14:57 PM
Anyplace to buy Perry's in the US? I've seen a few but they mostly only have the plastic sets.I use to get mine from "The Warstore" but alas no more.
Mark
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: RedDeadRevolver on January 26, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
Anyplace to buy Perry's in the US? I've seen a few but they mostly only have the plastic sets.I use to get mine from "The Warstore" but alas no more.
Mark

You’re best bet nowadays for the metal ranges is to just order direct from the Perry website. Won’t have any issues with what you want being “out of stock” and price-wise is often cheaper even with shipping.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Shipka on January 26, 2020, 08:12:27 PM
Maybe they will follow this up with The Ten Cents War
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: marco55 on January 28, 2020, 02:04:59 AM
You’re best bet nowadays for the metal ranges is to just order direct from the Perry website. Won’t have any issues with what you want being “out of stock” and price-wise is often cheaper even with shipping.

Yeah I've ordered books from their site and never had any problems.
Mark
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: abu iskander on January 28, 2020, 03:26:05 AM
Same here - I've ordered quite a bit from them and it's always been prompt and reliable service to the US.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 28, 2020, 03:54:02 PM
You’re best bet nowadays for the metal ranges is to just order direct from the Perry website. Won’t have any issues with what you want being “out of stock” and price-wise is often cheaper even with shipping.


Ditto this, I've ordered directly from them at least once and didn't have any problems.  Don't expect 2 day shipping or anything  lol. but if memory serves it was fairly quick turnaround and they even threw in a bonus metal fig!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: FreakyFenton on February 04, 2020, 11:21:35 PM
Leaving aside the near total absence of date palms in Mato Grosso do Sul and eastern Paraguay, they do indeed look superb.  :-*

 ;D
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: von Lucky on February 19, 2020, 07:34:30 AM
Totally missed these!

Examples of some of the Paraguayan cavalry:
(https://scontent.fmel10-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/85122468_2540579172730840_1890501147496546304_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQkODvKui4GKFdGAr9IsB--reI7c-wFSZ5farX97Kc8VWeQAwN0XJSfeEbg8GvQRNWg&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel10-1.fna&oh=06231864faf6637886d22156ba97ec6e&oe=5F01BA81)

And some examples of the Triple Alliance Allied cavalry coming up:
(https://scontent.fmel10-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/85081801_2540578839397540_2034623095850926080_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQmjyVeEhAZZVaxM-GpDBLmvM3177MsAUF2vfmW5Tnpps2l3oY-3mke1JmPICtlLXRw&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel10-1.fna&oh=64abf89eabc44843c06c27af9dab8559&oe=5ECA6990)

Source:
https://www.facebook.com/perryminiatures/photos/a.446723118783133/2540579169397507/?type=3&theater
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on February 19, 2020, 08:04:16 AM
This looks extremely bad for my finances.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: von Lucky on February 19, 2020, 08:22:12 AM
It's okay, you don't need to buy an OpFor, we're both in Melbourne. I'll get the Brazilians and you can get the Paraguayans... or the Argentinians...
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Happy Wanderer on February 19, 2020, 08:39:09 AM
...outstanding.

My first batch of Paraguayans and Brazilians have arrived, prepped adn started to be painted and now the cav hot on their heels are the perfect reinforcements.

 ;D ;D

Happy W
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Emir of Askaristan on February 19, 2020, 08:55:00 AM
Oh I like those.

Not for this conflict but I could use a few for 2nd Empire French and some Roman Republic cav.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: carlos marighela on February 19, 2020, 09:42:19 AM
It's okay, you don't need to buy an OpFor, we're both in Melbourne. I'll get the Brazilians and you can get the Paraguayans... or the Argentinians...

Despite my daughter having an Argentine godmother, I shall be largely eschewing an Argentine force. One tries not to encourage them. ;)

Actually, I was thinking of using the plastic Union infantry for a battalion of Argentine infantry in tropical kit. I only need a battalion’s worth for late war.

I’m a little surprised they didn’t go with gaucho styled cavalry first off, no doubt they are in the pipeline. Of course one doesn’t really wish to encourage gauchos either, they usually vote the wrong way. I’ll be truly fucked by the time they get around to the Voluntarios da Patria.

What are you basing yours for? I’m thinking singly and then using sabots so I can switch between Sharpe Practice and Volley & Bayonet at the other end of the scale.

By the by, two bits of news. I have convinced Nic at Eureka to cast up some more of the 68 pdr gun barrels so I can do Curupaty and I have been in contact with Nuno of Kingscarbine and his figures will be available again later this month.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Happy Wanderer on February 19, 2020, 10:20:41 AM
Good work on Eureka and Kingscarbine Carlos.  ;)

I'm doing single based. I did up the Rebels and Patriots lists (link below) for a 'dive in quick' style game but am looking at the new Muskets and Tomahawks V2 as a possible contender as well, given it is now exclusively a black powder rules set and not just for the FIW/AWI period as per the 1st edition.

I'll be doing MnT2 lists on my blog once the rules are released.

Cheers

Happy W

https://agrabbagofgames.wordpress.com/2020/01/18/

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: von Lucky on February 20, 2020, 10:21:35 AM
What are you basing yours for? I’m thinking singly and then using sabots so I can switch between Sharpe Practice and Volley & Bayonet at the other end of the scale.

By the by, two bits of news. I have convinced Nic at Eureka to cast up some more of the 68 pdr gun barrels so I can do Curupaty and I have been in contact with Nuno of Kingscarbine and his figures will be available again later this month.

Single based. I imagine I'll get around 24-30 infantry and 6-12 cavalry to start off with.

Firescale Whack can confirm - but I think we were thinking Rebels and Patriots - but I suspect we will quickly move to Musket & Tomahawks as that has a lot more traction at the club we both game at.

And I now know what the cannon is that I have in a Victorian Sci-Fi tank I built, I haven't even thought of artillery for this conflict!
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Happy Wanderer on February 20, 2020, 12:13:35 PM
...well you're in luck Von Lucky! R&P lists are done on my blog...use and abuse as you choose...and I'm awaiting MnT2 so that's maybe something for you to look at as well.

Brilliant minds think alike :o ...(or small minds seldom differ  :D :D )

 ;)
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: marco55 on April 04, 2020, 03:25:10 PM
Excellent range.You never know what those Perry boys will come out with next.True Grand Masters of the hobby. :D
Mark
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Pictors Studio on April 05, 2020, 01:09:24 AM
I'm doing mine 3 on a 60x30mm stand and units of 4 stands.

They are really nice figures. I have 2 units of each the Paraguyans and Brazilians done so far with another 6 apraguyans getting painted today.
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on April 16, 2020, 03:27:02 PM
New models for the range:

https://www.facebook.com/perryminiatures/photos/pcb.2685787951543294/2685783864877036/?type=3&theater

Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: marco55 on April 16, 2020, 05:10:09 PM
The Paraguayans seem to be the favorite.The peoples choice. o_o
Mark
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on April 16, 2020, 08:17:01 PM
The Paraguayans seem to be the favorite.The peoples choice. o_o
Mark

I am very, very tempted. Maybe a small force for Muskets & Tomahawks... Nothing too big, just a few dozen of models per side. Then, I always can expand the forces at a later time.

But first thing first! I need to finish my French-Indian War forces, which are very advanced (Franco-Indians are just shy of 10 models to be finished; British I will need rangers and some Regulars, say about 20 models yet), and the Mutiny (only Hodson's Horse to finish the HEIC/Crown forces, but a lot of Indians still to paint!). Until then, I shouldn't think about starting new projects... but it is hard when so many awesome models are being released! :D
Title: Re: And the new Perry Miniatures range is...
Post by: marco55 on April 16, 2020, 09:26:19 PM
It's a golden age.Sculpting just keeps getting better and better.
Mark