Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: ZeroTwentythree on March 24, 2020, 05:01:31 AM
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After I year of planning/procrastinating I finally played my first few solo games of the coop. fantasy skirmish Sellswords and Spellslingers. My first battle was a hard fought bloodbath... :o
https://www.zerotwentythree.com/2020/03/sellswords-and-spellslingers-game-1.html
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ICnlj935dyQ/Xnl1RFnHS-I/AAAAAAAAIiw/HIKO0KSLYD8_idXhOz6jOiUi7x-v2wmKwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_20200322_123050.jpg)
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It is certainly worth giving it another go. It sounds like your dice rolling was awful.
It is hard going without a spell caster - magic bolt or fireball are both rather useful.
One character with ranged ability will certainly make a difference, especially if they have strength and can use a war bow (2 damage).
Shields and armour offer a significant benefit.
I would have one character with a point in Hero which allows activation on 7+ (not much good if you were mainly rolling 5s!).
Using the right sized board is important - too large and you simply cannot get from A to B.
Possibly just have three characters and use the additional points to buff them a bit more.
I have tinkered with the rules in a variety of ways for various reasons. The tinkering that has the least impact on the rules as written is to have a rule that on the third time a Scenario Event is drawn there are no more "Reinforcements" or "They're at our back" cards. This allows for an eventual end. There is nothing worse than having wounded characters moving at only 1 or 2" trying to get off the board. They take a lot of activations and therefore risk more and more monsters appearing.
I hope this helps.
My other tinkers have been to create a more Tolkien-style game and to have a more questing D&D type feel. If interested I can pass on some ideas but would advise you first play the vanilla rules a bit more.
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Sounds very like my first (and do far only) game of S&S too.
Though your 50% survival was better than my Total Party Kill!
I've not played since, so glad to read that you're on game 4 now. I'm considering (given Lockdown) dusting it off and giving another try.
Really like the (bramble?) bushes on your table. How did you make them?
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A common beginer's mistake and yes, I made it too when I started, is to play scenario 1 first. It's the most difficult basic level scenario in the book, especially of you do not have any shooters (bows or spellcasters). Try going back to the scenario after playing a few other games, I bet you would fare better on the second run (providing the dice gods do not keep frowning upon you!).
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I play Sellswords and Spellslingers a lot and love the game but poor rolls can kill you quickly and ruin a narrative campaign.
To mitigate I have the following house rules:
Fallen characters are lost for good if condition not checked.
If Checked:
Fallen characters who score 19 or 20 'just a flesh wound' remain on the field.
If they score 1-10 they are off the field.
If they score 11-18 then I can choose to take them off the field or allow them to stay with the respective limitations from the out of action table; if I keep them on the field and they go down again they are lost permanently.
I re-roll on the Out of Action table after the game for the condition of any evacuated characters.
If dead (1-7) they will cost 500 to resuscitate or leave them dead.
8-18 will require a healing potion to be bought and used or they are retired.
19 or 20, they are fine.
And sometimes, whatever I do, they all end up dead and I just have to replay the scenario.
For one off games I play the normal rules and if they die, they die.
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After I year of planning/procrastinating I finally played my first few solo games of the coop. fantasy skirmish Sellswords and Spellslingers.
Haha, I have been doing that for 15 years, I tried Mordheim but it wasn't for me....
Now I am hesitating between S&S and Rangers of Shadow Deep (have you played that?)
I like the cards in this game.....
How do you rate the solo experience?
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I have tried both and much prefer Rangers. It also has a nicely atmospheric setting, though you are in no way forced to use it. In fact I don't myself, instead using it for Conan/Hyborian Age games, which better fit my figure collection and interests. All in all, RoSD is a great system, runs very smoothly, and is well worth giving a try!
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I have tried both and much prefer Rangers. It also has a nicely atmospheric setting, though you are in no way forced to use it. In fact I don't myself, instead using it for Conan/Hyborian Age games, which better fit my figure collection and interests. All in all, RoSD is a great system, runs very smoothly, and is well worth giving a try!
Funny, I'm the opposite - I like Rangers but prefer SS&SS. I just don't see Rangers as having enough to be able to call itself a solo/cooperative game. It looks to me like any other set of rules. I like the uncertainty of of Sellswords. I do get frustrated with continued failed activations. This results in a very static game as you cannot move and when you do activate it has to be spent on combat because all the fails mean more monsters.
I have played a more quest/D&D type game where we activated on 6+ (with a few other necessary rules to prevent overpowering the characters and some additional monster AI) and a bigger table. This added only a little extra complexity to the rules but allowed for a far more fluid game. I have only done this twice but plan to play more games like this.
Having said that, I have played at least 10 games of Sellswords using the vanilla rules and had fun with them all.
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I bought Sellswords a year ago and started making plans to play it. Later on I also bought Rangers and still plan to play it too. Both look like good games, but with different approaches.
As far as Sellswords goes, after playing four games I acknowledge that a BIG part of the game is the dice, even beyond my one unlucky starting game. That can kill the fun a bit... and the party. I almost had a repeat, but luckily it was in an easier scenario and although I (once again) had two of the characters acting totally inept (more fumbles shutting down spellcasting and shooting right a the start of the game... I need to check for cursed dice!) But the drama of the game is part of the appeal, I think. If a game is too easy -- you know you will win in the end, where's the fun in that? Not that I want the entire party killed, either. ;) But I've enjoyed the tension and sense of drama in Sellswords so far.
It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but I do recommend trying it out if you're looking for this sort of coop/solo game. I haven't played many games at all recently, but I really enjoyed these solo games this week. And they gave a much better experience than my trying to play a normally two player game as a solo game recently.
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It sounds S&S is more Warhammer and esp Pendragon/Cthulhu where you can die really easy - A giant in Pendragon will destroy a knight's armour, the knight, the horse and still do damage to the ground. And ROSD is maybe more D&D? But this is skirmish and not rpg...
I like both, so will try both.
I also like rolling dice and depending on their outcome for games - if I don't want that I play chess (which I like too)...
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From my personal experience Sellswords is exactly like the D&D game I played long ago, without all the complicated charts and tables.
I haven't played Rangers, although I have talked to friends who have, and it sounds a good game as well.
Bad dice in Sellswords can lead to a disappointing game, but I've had the same experience with Frostgrave (unable to cast any spells!) and Rangers uses the same mechanism. If I'm playing solo and the game stops being fun, I can always reset and go again. :D
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Sellswords is great but as you found it can be tough.
In my first game my party got wiped out and again in the third game! I made the same mistake playing Through the Badlands which is not a beginner scenario.
I found its really important to focus on the victory conditions and not use unnecessary activations on things like looting. The game by design gets harder the more it goes on, as cards get removed from the deck. That's one of the clever aspects I really like about it.
Upgrades such as the Hero bonus, increasing weapon levels, healing potions, shields all help reduce risk of failure, but dice still play a big part. Whirlwind of steel is great if you can afford it and it really speeds up dealing with hordes.
Ethelred raised some good ideas as well and Fireball is almost mandatory for killing hordes (which saves a lot of activations).
I haven't played RoSD (own it) and it reads well, but I do really enjoy the tension and chaos that is Sellswords. RoSD seems more programmed and I'm not sure about repeatability of the scenarios, Sellswords is more open to developing your own scenarios and campaigns, but than again RoSD has a number of extra campaigns already.
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I think RoSD has a bigger following because it has been marketed better, has much better scenarios, and has a nice world concept for those scenarios to be based in.
There is a lot to like about RoSD and if I had a big circle of gamers I would play this like D&D - with a games master.
The preprogramming in RoSD just doesn't work for me as a solo game.
SS&SS has a lot more surprises and you just can't predict what will happen. It's weakness is that it is almost too random. There is almost no point in making a strategy because it can all be undone through a few bad dice rolls.
As mentioned, we are trying a modified version where the chance of passing an activation roll is increased. This does require some tweaking of things, especially spells (we don't want 3 fireballs a turn to be usual). This version has a more complex monster AI. Overall, this makes the game even more like D&D although it is marginally slower/more complex.
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Hello
When you say we do you mean we the developers or we a gaming group? Either way I'd be interested in seeing that.
At the moment I will probably try ROSD, but I want to do SS&SS too - the cards and randomness appeal to me (esp. in solo)
Thanks
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Hello
When you say we do you mean we the developers or we a gaming group? Either way I'd be interested in seeing that.
At the moment I will probably try ROSD, but I want to do SS&SS too - the cards and randomness appeal to me (esp. in solo)
Thanks
Sorry, by "we" I mean me, my mate and the bloke next door.
Like most gamers, I like to tinker with rules, and I tinker more than most. I am still uncertain about what I want from a game. Sellswords is a good generl engine, so the issue is: do I play with the rules as they are; do I modify them for a Middle Earth Setting; do I make them more like a D&D adventure with a bit more emphasis on movement and adventure? I think this is another strength of RoSD, where you can investigate clues and use non-combat skills in a meaningful way.
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Sorry, by "we" I mean me, my mate and the bloke next door.
Well that sounds like a killer team... I'd still be interested.
I find the ssandss cards the most appealing, but at the moment ordering them seems a long way off (I'm in Europe)
Thanks
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I went the el-cheapo way and just printed the cards on paper, cut them out and stuck them on to standard playing cards with a glue stick. I can then add custom made event cards easily.
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I went the el-cheapo way and just printed the cards on paper, cut them out and stuck them on to standard playing cards with a glue stick. I can then add custom made event cards easily.
I did exactly the same, bought the pdfs and printed off the cards. I've also been able to make a lot of custom cards for my own monsters that way as well.
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Yeah I printed the cards and brought tarot card sleeves for them which were very cheap ($5 NZD). It does take a while to cut them all out though. I'm also starting on my own cards and scenarios. I also brought the extra monster cards and downloaded all the extra monsters people had created on the SoBH FB group.
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Thanks for the report :)
If you have bad dice, RoSD can be even more 'swingy' as the difference between the d20 roll and the armour value, determines damage. Very easy for bad dice to cause a TPK.
I reckon I bought SS&SS at least a year ago... still "preparing" :D
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Thanks
But if I use the ink for that my wife will kill me
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...I do really enjoy the tension and chaos that is Sellswords. RoSD seems more programmed and I'm not sure about repeatability of the scenarios, Sellswords is more open to developing your own scenarios and campaigns...
I agree with this completely. And not only is Rangers too programmed, but it is very swingy, making it just as deadly or more so in my opinion (a couple of bad roles and your Ranger is dead). In our first game the Ranger died trying to swim across a pond while being attacked by a giant fly. Less than heroic. The rest of the scenario played out in a pretty paint-by-numbers fashion, without any tension.
By comparison, you can't easily predict or plan around the events as they unfold during a game of SS&SS, creating a lot of unexpected dilemmas and excitement. I like that SS&SS feels like the old Mike Tyson adage: "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face."
I think either system benefits from home-brewing scenarios, which is what I did with Sellswords, creating a two-part adaptation of the Conan story, "Beyond the Black River," which I just made available as a free 68-page PDF download on my blog: https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2020/03/striking-back-against-covid-19-free.html (https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2020/03/striking-back-against-covid-19-free.html)
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My game group, the Second Saturday Scrum Club, played Sellswords one week and Rangers the next and then had a discussion on video about the two that you can check out here: https://youtu.be/-NJ5uF72OQA (https://youtu.be/-NJ5uF72OQA)
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I think either system benefits from home-brewing scenarios, which is what I did with Sellswords, creating a two-part adaptation of the Conan story, "Beyond the Black River," which I just made available as a free 68-page PDF download on my blog: https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2020/03/striking-back-against-covid-19-free.html (https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2020/03/striking-back-against-covid-19-free.html)
Thanks a lot for that!
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My game group, the Second Saturday Scrum Club, played Sellswords one week and Rangers the next and then had a discussion on video about the two that you can check out here:
Great video.
SS&SS really need some more scenarios like one you have released. I'm writing some and will try and post the in the next few weeks.
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Please do. I would love to see them, just for more ideas.
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Thank you everyone for the continued input. I've been working on diving into solo gaming for a few years, but only really started less than a year ago. Sellswords is the third system I've tried and despite (or maybe because of?) the ups & downs, I've found it very interesting.
I think either system benefits from home-brewing scenarios, which is what I did with Sellswords, creating a two-part adaptation of the Conan story, "Beyond the Black River," which I just made available as a free 68-page PDF download on my blog: https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2020/03/striking-back-against-covid-19-free.html (https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2020/03/striking-back-against-covid-19-free.html)
Thank you for that! I just bought the one "official" scenario add-on earlier this week. I will definitely take a look at yours.
I know there was talk of a supplement for dungeon crawls as well, but I'm looking at coming up with something like that for myself in the meantime.
My game group, the Second Saturday Scrum Club, played Sellswords one week and Rangers the next and then had a discussion on video about the two that you can check out here: https://youtu.be/-NJ5uF72OQA (https://youtu.be/-NJ5uF72OQA)
And thank you for that as well. Just watched it. I haven't played Rangers, but it's still on my agenda. What I think you guys (and a lot of the comments on this thread) hit at is that one of strengths of Sellswords is that it keeps you on the edge of your seats. I do like the customization of characters as well.
Work and home life got busy the past week/end so no more to report yet. I was going to write up about my other games, but if I get some time this weekend I will probably try to play a fresh game or three instead. lol
Thinking about maybe trying to get my wife & daughter (8) on board for their first miniatures game. We've been playing the classic Dungeon! boardgame as well as the newer Disney Villainous quite a bit lately I think Sellswords would be a pretty accessible gateway to miniatures. Plus we get to play co-op.
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Andrea has just approved my synopsis for a campaign scenario book for Sellswords, so there will be new scenarios coming later this year.
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Belated update. I played a few more games the last few weeks. Full updates & pics in a couple of blog entries. Links below.
https://www.zerotwentythree.com/2020/04/more-sellswords-solo-games-2-4.html
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FxwgTrMzP24/XogDBqV_ffI/AAAAAAAAIk8/pvfU3UGfh7gQjCCUQIAJOQgHb4R1N3BkgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_20200322_143134.jpg)
https://www.zerotwentythree.com/2020/04/low-rollers-head-to-broken-lands.html
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ozjko1eb-gY/XqD89gKFc6I/AAAAAAAAIo4/vAVZiuaulnk6UwDIbriOnlN1I9GQVP2lACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_20200419_192044.jpg)
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Great reports, glad you're enjoying the system. I'm enjoying reading about it!
I think you're right about the dice. All dice games have swing to them at times. For me the question is, is there enough tactical choice and decision making for it to be engaging. Rangers does that with event cards and interesting scenarios, keeping the system itself quite simple and pretty high in randomness. SS&SS seems to be more involved but lacks the narrative scenario structure (pending the forthcoming supplement from a member of these boards!)
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Great reports, glad you're enjoying the system. I'm enjoying reading about it!
I think you're right about the dice. All dice games have swing to them at times. For me the question is, is there enough tactical choice and decision making for it to be engaging. Rangers does that with event cards and interesting scenarios, keeping the system itself quite simple and pretty high in randomness. SS&SS seems to be more involved but lacks the narrative scenario structure (pending the forthcoming supplement from a member of these boards!)
;)
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Thanks for the battle reports! I really dig your collection, especially the barbarian characters. :D
Just to jump in on the discussion of Rangers of Shadow Deep / Sellswords&Spellslingers (both of which I reviewed on Tabletopstories.net ;) ).... After having played four games of Rangers of Shadow Deep and eight-ish games of Sellswords and Spellslingers I have to say that both rules sets have their perks. Overall I do prefer Sellswords&Spellslingers though, because it can do pretty much anything and very much encourages players to do so. Rangers of Shadow Deep's main rulebook campaign gives you a nice overarching narrative which ties the scenarios together. Once everything's on the table though things are pretty clearly mapped out it seems. I really like the card-drawing event mechanic in Rangers of Shadow Deep. This is what I think adds an interesting aspect to games and keeps them from being overly predictable.
Sellswords and Spellslingers on the other hand doesn't give you an overarching story (until we get those forthcoming supplements ;) ), but asks players to make them up themselves. However, where SS&SS shines is in-game storytelling (or story-unfolding). There isn't a single game we've had which didn't have at least two moments of drama/heroics/wacky hijinx which develop quite naturally. There are no certainties in SS&SS, whereas Rangers of Shadow Deep in my opinion gives a little bit too much certainty. For solo/coop gaming especially, I prefer the former over the latter.
Then there are entirely silly and subjective things: I simply prefer SS&SS' art style and presentation over Rangers of Shadow Deep's and the fact that it forces you to make stuff up. In return it rewards you with funny/tense situations in games. Now for the REALLY silly reasons why my heart's kinda more with SS&SS over RoSD: There's a thing which bugged me about Frostgrave and it's a thing in RoSD as well. I don't like the idea of one character being 'the important one' (who gets XP, levels, gets abilities, etc.), surrounded by lackeys who are there in support or act as cannon fodder. For some reason that just doesn't sit right with me. I prefer every single character to be just that and be of equal value in games which are about half a handful of adventurers vs. the forces of evil.
Both rules sets work really well and I think they approach a similar thing in very different fashions. In the end it comes down to what sort of wargaming you enjoy and which kind you're used to. I like the wild and slightly unkempt ways of SS&SS. Sure, sometimes things will swing wildly against you, but that's life and I think that unpredictability is what makes solo/coop games interesting and fun.
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Can't wait for that scenario book and an eventual dungeon crawl expansion for SS. I too prefer SS to Rangers, but the game sorely needs expansion material.
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Can't wait for that scenario book and an eventual dungeon crawl expansion for SS. I too prefer SS to Rangers, but the game sorely needs expansion material.
I'm getting a final proof read of the manuscript before submitting it, but Ganesha will still need to produce artwork, design layout etc so I'm afraid you won't see the campaign book available very soon. Probably by the autumn, but it might be sooner with a bit of luck.
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whenever it comes out - thanks for your work!
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I've been wanting to get back to my Sellswords and Spellslingers solo campaign. But I've recently discovered I've been doing it wrong. I've been using mixing the terms "players" and "PCs" a number of times.
So, for example, the reason the first game was such a bloodbath was that I had far more hordes of orcs than I should have. I've also been handing out too much XP after games. So I've decided to wrap up the current band with a few final games, then start over with a new warband.
My plan is to replay the Badlands scenario -- possibly using the "wrong" number of orcs again. Then possibly play the tower scenario, since I've had this old Battlemasters in my garage we cleaned out my friend Rich's game room over a year ago. (It was mine, & I painted it, but gave it to him at some point. I was handed a box with this and two others to take home...) Finally, I will put them through the Thunder Lizard scenario. Per the scenario instructions, I rummaged through my daughters toys for a suitable adversary. She had a good selection hiding at the bottom of a bin, and I've narrowed it down to these two... :D
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--anE3gLxIpg/XtQ4U47gg8I/AAAAAAAAIzk/92BPhwIpsIEGREh4J3M9m93zOR-x5Rg4wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_20200530_174041.jpg)
lol
I will also need some lizarmen, which is great motivation to get back to painting the old Tom Meier troglodytes I've been planning to repaint for many long years. I did one test figure, with an unusual color scheme based on an actual lizard. But I'm not sure I like it. The main reason these wonderful figures haven't been repainted all this time is because I can't make up my mind on how to paint them!
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-m8-9jb73gMY/XtQ4YshfCXI/AAAAAAAAIzo/mqoroeI1GQkdihtQS5nXr0aM-5DV-3JNQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_20200529_233523.jpg)
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Mr. Meier's greater troglodytes or those labeled as lesser?
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That's one of the big ones, but I have both those and the lesser trogs in the bag behind him. Still my favorite lizardman miniatures!
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My long overdue return to the legendary adventures of The Low Rollers!
https://www.zerotwentythree.com/2020/08/back-to-sellswords-and-painted-some.html
Spoiler: it doesn't end well for everybody.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LBDLGVnqGYg/XybL3M5Oi7I/AAAAAAAAI-g/nygLbEAsCAwHkuNohvNgCsuQt7-VXTp-gCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_20200802_005035_20200802101744144.jpg)
I wonder what's next...
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ta-VT1km6aU/Xyb7P9ZWt4I/AAAAAAAAI_I/pLjoeyuXYcAbv3coX8i-5K8bRsnXCGoGACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_20200802_123009.jpg)
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Last night's report is up...
https://www.zerotwentythree.com/2020/08/death-of-necromancer.html
Tonight, I expect to be the dramatic conclusion to The Saga of The Low Rollers. They're going up against the toughest opponent they've ever faced....
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jCpX55_JxAg/XyoO-v5LF1I/AAAAAAAAI_4/OKRumEUyUgwVLZJ3X1Dyd7ims9qNquhiACLcBGAsYHQ/s800/IMG_20200804_184741.jpg)
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Looking forward to reading more, SS and SS is by far my favourite ruleset so it's great to see others playing it too.
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Thanks. I'm going to start my second campaign soon. It's been a lot of fun, definitely capturing a sense of danger and suspense.
The dramatic conclusion of the Saga of the Low Rollers.
https://www.zerotwentythree.com/2020/08/last-of-low-rollers.html
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JRf2DVSoO0I/XythqQEPHlI/AAAAAAAAJAM/P7pndJpQlIcucrs2BNYpIPq4I2RryPyNgCLcBGAsYHQ/s800/IMG_20200804_232252.jpg)
Soon to be followed by the next band of (anti)heroes....
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By the end of the scenario, there were twice as many opponents on the table. I ran out of cultists and has to start tossing orcs into the fray.
That sounds familiar lol
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I read this and then forgot to post an encouraging comment! Great reports, I do look forward to a 2nd campaign :)
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I am thinking about doing a more narrative campaign, with some home-brewed scenarios and this group of misfits. :D
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XPyRr8NMkzQ/XyuDBA142hI/AAAAAAAAJAc/d-sZM2jgFaQdT3Z7lQACaabvCtq-00v-gCLcBGAsYHQ/s800/IMG_20200805_234238.jpg)
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That’s a great read! I love your figure collection, totally eclectic and well painted too. Keep the lizard scheme, it works. Its nice to see such an original approach to the hobby.
And now I am going to have to buy S and S! It sounds a lot more fun as a solo game than Rangers of the Shadowdeep, which I play with my family, it’s a great game but maybe a little more predictable then S and S sounds
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It has been a while since I've played S&S or anything else for that matter. I'm thinking about starting my next warband & campaign, either solo or maybe recruiting family and/or friends to do it with me.
Back when I was really getting into my last campaign, I started a Facebook group but don't think I posted it here. I'm interested to see what others have done with the game... their warbands, their drama, and any home-brewed scenarios, campaigns, monsters, etc.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/744326026327690 (https://www.facebook.com/groups/744326026327690)