Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: James Morris on May 02, 2020, 12:18:59 PM
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Something a bit different...Tlingit - the native people of southeastern Alaska and northwest British Columbia. Having family links to BC myself, I was delighted to find a small Russian company starting a line of these. I’ve painted a few up and am delighted with them - great models in a solid 28mm (they match nicely with Galloping Major- see comparison shot with a GM Huron and Redcoat in final photo). I’ll definitely be buying more. The manufacturer is Varang Miniatures. https://m.facebook.com/varangminiatures/ (https://m.facebook.com/varangminiatures/)
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Certainly different, & just as certainly very nicely done.
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That was a secret sculpting project of mine since a couple of years but nonetheless I'm glad someone else sculpted them :). They look really nice :-*
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Brill :-* :-* :-*
I've been waiting to see this since you mentioned it a few weeks ago. They look superb James, I don't know how you do it but you always seem to come up with original interesting ideas 8)
More please :)
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interesting subject and beautifully painted minis James.
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Very different but those models are fantastic and very well painted. :-* :-*
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Brill :-* :-* :-*
I've been waiting to see this since you mentioned it a few weeks ago. They look superb James, I don't know how you do it but you always seem to come up with original interesting ideas 8)
More please :)
Cheers Darrell! This is a long-burning project; I was born in BC and grew up with northwest coast First Nations art books around the house, and spent quite a lot of time in my teens copying it. It was probably inevitable once the right figure range came along. While the Eureka 15mm range is nice, it just wouldn’t be the same to paint.
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Cheers Darrell! This is a long-burning project; I was born in BC and grew up with northwest coast First Nations art books around the house, and spent quite a lot of time in my teens copying it. It was probably inevitable once the right figure range came along.
Well, you learn something new every day! Had you down as Newark born and bred :)
While the Eureka 15mm range is nice, it just wouldn’t be the same to paint.
Yeah, 15mm just doesn't do it for me either. Personally there's only really Xyston that I can get along with.
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Lovely figures, beautifully painted. Well done that man.
Now, in order to make a game of it, the question is: Who makes 28mm Russian and Aleut figures to match these Tlingit?
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Cracking work!
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Lovely figures, beautifully painted. Well done that man.
Now, in order to make a game of it, the question is: Who makes 28mm Russian and Aleut figures to match these Tlingit?
Cheers! Varang Minis have thoughts to do Russians. I’d be tempted to collect another northwest coast tribe as opponents but will have to see what comes up.
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I actually did the Tlingit some years back using Eureka's fine mini line and then for rules using Irregular Wars which works very well for tribal conflicst.
The Tlingit were real bad asses who preyed on a lot of tribes over a huge stretch of territory. They engaged in slavery for cheap labor then when the salmon harvest was poor they would kill their slaves and have to start up again when things got better.
Had some fun games with them against California coastal Indian tribes.
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I actually did the Tlingit some years back using Eureka's fine mini line and then for rules using Irregular Wars which works very well for tribal conflicst.
The Tlingit were real bad asses who preyed on a lot of tribes over a huge stretch of territory. They engaged in slavery for cheap labor then when the salmon harvest was poor they would kill their slaves and have to start up again when things got better.
Had some fun games with them against California coastal Indian tribes.
This sounds really cool! Do you have any photos?
I like the Eureka range a lot but 15mm just isn’t my thing.
I’ve just ordered another 45 Tlingit from Varang...watch this space.😀
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James, bit of an off the wall question that you just might be able to answer.......
Based on the size of the Tlingit models how do you think Varang Miniatures Rus would match up with Gripping Beast's Early Rus range? (perhaps changing horses)
If they're close I might order some (when it's possible) and have a look see. :)
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James, bit of an off the wall question that you just might be able to answer.......
Based on the size of the Tlingit models how do you think Varang Miniatures Rus would match up with Gripping Beast's Early Rus range? (perhaps changing horses)
If they're close I might order some (when it's possible) and have a look see. :)
I'll PM you mate. Got another order from Varang about to be packed.
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I'll PM you mate. Got another order from Varang about to be packed.
Much appreciated James. :)
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James Morris,
Sorry for the belated reply but no, sadly I do not have any pics. The Eureka Tlingits are great figures though, I enjoyed painting them.
I still have them - someplace - but I have moved on quite some time ago to other projects.
Those 28mm Tlingits in this thread look great too! Their raids would make excellent skirmish games.
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James Morris,
Sorry for the belated reply but no, sadly I do not have any pics. The Eureka Tlingits are great figures though, I enjoyed painting them.
I still have them - someplace - but I have moved on quite some time ago to other projects.
Those 28mm Tlingits in this thread look great too! Their raids would make excellent skirmish games.
Thank you, no worries. It’s easy to forget that not very long ago we didn’t photograph every game!
I’ve ordered enough Tlingit now to do a warband for Muskets and Tomahawks. I need to have a think about good 28mm figures for them to raid. Aleuts or other Northwest Indians would be good.
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Great looking figs, and an amazingly cool period. Great stuff!
Mike Demana
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I have always wanted to game this..since the late "Campaigns " magazine did that series on this conflict.here is painting of Narva being towed upriver by Native allies..
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I have always wanted to game this..since the late "Campaigns " magazine did that series on this conflict.here is painting of Narva being towed upriver by Native allies..
That’s a great picture - thank you. Never heard of Campaigns magazine. When was it around?
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back in the1970;s and 1980;s it was either a 2 part or three part series w/ color plates. I think STP out of russia makes Russians suitable ..like from Suvarovs era late 1790;s.your paint jobs are awesome.I'll post a picture of a sample cover..I don;t know which had the articles..I;ll check to see if I can find it.
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Campaigns : wow. Talk about a blast from the past...
I'll show my age by stating I have the first 32 issues neatly stored in my magazines collection. Had a quick look at them but couldn't find the piece on the Tlingit : either it was in the only missing issue in my little collection (n° 26) or it was published post issue 32.
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Found it : the piece was published in issues 47 and 48, which I do not own.
http://gamers-garage.com/campaigns-magazine-collection-complete-p-235.html (http://gamers-garage.com/campaigns-magazine-collection-complete-p-235.html)
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Found it : the piece was published in issues 47 and 48, which I do not own.
http://gamers-garage.com/campaigns-magazine-collection-complete-p-235.html (http://gamers-garage.com/campaigns-magazine-collection-complete-p-235.html)
Wow, thanks! Are the illustrations that have been posted above from these magazines, do you think?
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No these illustrations are not..the ship is a painting by Myers...the canoe I just found googling 1802 battle of Sitka and the other is a Osprey print from form Indians of the Northwest,
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As far as other native American opponents, what about the Paymaster Games range? I'm not much of an expert, so I don't know how accurate their minis are. Some obviously veer pretty far into the realm of fantasy and mythology, but some appear to be pretty grounded.
https://www.paymastergames.com/pacific-northwest-tribes?page=2
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Whitwort ..great link .I had never heard of them....are they 28mm?
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Whitwort ..great link .I had never heard of them....are they 28mm?
Yes, they are 28mm. I looked at them last year but was unsure. There are some superb character models but the warriors and spear men packs just seem to be the same bodies with separate arms and there are insufficient pictures for me to take a punt on them.
It would be super to get some Kwakiutl or Aleuts to fight my Tlingit but I’m not sure these are them. Maybe I should email to ask for further photos.
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Unfortunately I don't own any yet, and have pretty much been in the same camp as James Morris re: better photos of the warriors.
Only tangentially related, but if playing fantasy games in the setting appeals, I do think that their monsters are excellent-looking models.
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James, if that image of the Tlingit canoe is accurate this has all the makings of a visually stunning game!!
Hmmm... was that hint strong enough? ;) :)
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I agree...this is going to look awesome on the tabletop! :o
Mike Demana
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I agree...this is going to look awesome on the tabletop! :o
Mike Demana
Plans are afoot!
But probably a way off.
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Plans are afoot!
But probably a way off.
It'll be worth it. I just hope I can actually venture out of the house before the show circuit starts again.
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two more painting s set in 1788 of a Russian Galiot "Three Saints"and Frigate being towed w/ the help of Tlingit canoes by Mark R. Myers
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Great, off the beaten path, figures and wonderful paintjobs.
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two more painting s set in 1788 of a Russian Galiot and Frigate being towed w/ the help of Tlingit canoes by Mark R. Myers
Those are cool paintings! Thank you very much.
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I've picked some of these up as well and am thinking about trying to do a Muskets and Tomahawks conversion. I am trying to hammer out what would be a plausible (if not historical) list of factions to make things a bit more varied an interesting. Obviously Russian Promyshlenniki but what about Hudson Bay soldiers and Inuit in addition to Aleuts? This gives you two regular forces with which to band varied native allies and mirrors the structure of the FIW in terms of the army lists in Muskets and Tomahawks. What would be good figures for the Hudson Bay soldiers? Maybe Wellington in India or early Napoleonic ranges? Or what about French Courier de Bois for scouts/trapper types? Muskets are probably too outdated? Just brainstorming...
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I've picked some of these up as well and am thinking about trying to do a Muskets and Tomahawks conversion. I am trying to hammer out what would be a plausible (if not historical) list of factions to make things a bit more varied an interesting. Obviously Russian Promyshlenniki but what about Hudson Bay soldiers and Inuit in addition to Aleuts? This gives you two regular forces with which to band varied native allies and mirrors the structure of the FIW in terms of the army lists in Muskets and Tomahawks. What would be good figures for the Hudson Bay soldiers? Maybe Wellington in India or early Napoleonic ranges? Or what about French Courier de Bois for scouts/trapper types? Muskets are probably too outdated? Just brainstorming...
That's great, have yours arrived yet? I just received another 50 warriors and a canoe from Varang. My intention is definitely to work up some M&T lists. I've got some ideas about the other possible factions, I'll come back and post those when I have time.
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No. Still waiting. Shipments from Russia always take a long time to the US but these days an eternity. Varang provided excellent communication though and tracking info.
That's great, have yours arrived yet? I just received another 50 warriors and a canoe from Varang. My intention is definitely to work up some M&T lists. I've got some ideas about the other possible factions, I'll come back and post those when I have time.
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My first Varang order took 5 weeks to get to the UK, my second one 3 weeks. You’re right though, great communication and tracking info. In terms of other tribal models suitable for the area, I was considering Paymaster Games of Seattle but am awaiting more pictures of their warriors first.
Shame the old Copplestone Inuit are out of production.
Russians I don’t really know enough about and need to do some uniform research.
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Russans you would need Suvarov era Russians...but also..anything w/ fur caps and overcoats...I know STP miniatures out of Russia makes that era Russians..
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If you’re interested in doing skirmish, Song of Drums and Tomahawks can be played with 6-12 figs per player, easily. It should adapt very easily to the Pacific Northwest with lots of ways to customize warriors or Europeans.
Mike Demana
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Just seen these for the first time. Excellent painting as always James and a for a theme I knew next to nothing about. Those figures are great, both the sculpting and the subject. What amazing armour! Sadly Facebook saw through my cunning ruse and banned me, so I can't check out the link.
Eureka do some nice Suvarov era Russians Link (https://www.eurekaminuk.com/collections/russian-wars-of-the-french-revolution). I have some of the STP Russian Civil War figures and they are great. Quite large, so they fit will well with copplestones but I can't say if the 18th C stuff is the same.
Always worth checking out what you're up to. :)
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Thanks for sharing a link to my store. I have several PNW Spirit Beast (monsters) as well.
Human forces - https://www.paymastergames.com/pacific-northwest-tribes
Spirit Beast models - https://www.paymastergames.com/northern-spirit-beasts
Allot of the heroes are based off of old Photos that I have come across in my research. They are a mix of allot of different PNW peoples. The PNW Witch Hunter is Tlingit for sure. Although the other heroes from the line would not be out of place in a Tlingit army or force. The Totem Men and High Collars are based off of Tlingit and Haida armored traditions and style, including Coin Mail armor on the several High Collar bodies. The Totem Men and High Collars are multi-part models with lots of options on how to build your unit including 10 different head, or helmet options depending on the unit you pick.
The basic Warrior is is a conglomerate of different PWN peoples. The common troopers are armed with traditional weapons, Whale Bone Swords and "Tlingit" Daggers, Spears, Harpoons and Bows. These are muli-part models, so the models are a bit uniform but their is a lot of variety in heads. I am always working on increasing the amount of bits for these units to make them more interesting. I have included a model based on the pre-contact navel tactic of attaching rocks to ropes that a person would use to sink canoes and Kayaks.
I have worked quite hard at this. trying to think of everything I can. I had created command models so units would not out of sorts with other armies on the battlefield.
I have a lot of ideas for the near future for my PNW line, my question is - what would you like to see added to the line? New heroes, single model warrior models, post contact muskets, Swivel Guns, and/ or Cannons. Do you have a old photo or picture that might make a good PNW model?
Please let me know - Thanks.
Raza w/ Paymaster Games
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Thanks for sharing a link to my store. I have several PNW Spirit Beast (monsters) as well.
Human forces - https://www.paymastergames.com/pacific-northwest-tribes
Spirit Beast models - https://www.paymastergames.com/northern-spirit-beasts
Raza w/ Paymaster Games
That is a very cool set of ranges! I may well order some of those for Flint & Feather gaming. Do you have a blog that introduces some of the spirit beasts?
Does anybody manufacture resin war canoes of the Pacific Northwest?
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Their is a Russian company that has a metal one canoe. It is a bit light on detail.
I have looked into my self. The PNW War Canoe are quite large. Think of the classic Woodland Indian Canoe, the canoe the modern canoe is based on, is half to a third of the size of a War Canoe. The largest recorded war canoe was over 40 feet long, 8 to 10 feet wide and could hold over 40 tons of cargo. On the smaller size, a average canoe (even in the modern era) could hold 10 to 20 people. Not only that, after the British moved into Vancouver they started to sell navel weapons like canons, deck guns, and swivel guns became a common addition to several tribes canoes.
So with that said. On the business side of things, it is cost prohibitive. It is easy to create say a Woodland or Eastern Canoe or a Kayak because of the size and ease to sculpt and cast. All they have to hold is one or two people tops. A large canoe like a PNW canoe or a Polynesian Canoe are very large and would be one the scale of a 40k tank or a large terrain piece. This can cost up ward of $1000 or more to sculpt and costly to get cast in resin (because of the molds mostly). This canoe could have a retail cost of around $60 to $75 each for just the boat. The cost of the PNW Canoe would likely go up when you add bits like rowers, captain, shaman, cargo and ships weapons (stone thrower [a guy with a rock and a rope], canon, deck gun, swivel guns). With a minim order of 30 models, I do not think I would be able to sell more then 1 or 2 a Quarter.
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Thanks for sharing a link to my store. I have several PNW Spirit Beast (monsters) as well.
Human forces - https://www.paymastergames.com/pacific-northwest-tribes
Spirit Beast models - https://www.paymastergames.com/northern-spirit-beasts
Allot of the heroes are based off of old Photos that I have come across in my research. They are a mix of allot of different PNW peoples. The PNW Witch Hunter is Tlingit for sure. Although the other heroes from the line would not be out of place in a Tlingit army or force. The Totem Men and High Collars are based off of Tlingit and Haida armored traditions and style, including Coin Mail armor on the several High Collar bodies. The Totem Men and High Collars are multi-part models with lots of options on how to build your unit including 10 different head, or helmet options depending on the unit you pick.
The basic Warrior is is a conglomerate of different PWN peoples. The common troopers are armed with traditional weapons, Whale Bone Swords and "Tlingit" Daggers, Spears, Harpoons and Bows. These are muli-part models, so the models are a bit uniform but their is a lot of variety in heads. I am always working on increasing the amount of bits for these units to make them more interesting. I have included a model based on the pre-contact navel tactic of attaching rocks to ropes that a person would use to sink canoes and Kayaks.
I have worked quite hard at this. trying to think of everything I can. I had created command models so units would not out of sorts with other armies on the battlefield.
I have a lot of ideas for the near future for my PNW line, my question is - what would you like to see added to the line? New heroes, single model warrior models, post contact muskets, Swivel Guns, and/ or Cannons. Do you have a old photo or picture that might make a good PNW model?
Please let me know - Thanks.
Raza w/ Paymaster Games
Hiya Raza,
Thanks for posting. I love your spirits and personality models and may order some at some point, but I would really appreciate some more photos of your warriors and spearmen so you can see what you actually get in the packs. Are all the bodies the same? Some clarity on this would give me (and others) the information I need to place an order.
I think musket-armed warriors are an obvious needed addition to the line.
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Just finished posting the PNW Warriors, Archer and Spearmen models. Mind you these are possible builds, because these are multi part kits and you pick how they look. Just so you know there are 3 bodies, three legs, 2 arm sets per kit and 10 heads. Here are some of the photos from the store.
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4265cf_9bface9f850e45c19e73c2ffacb75529~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_500,h_375,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4265cf_9bface9f850e45c19e73c2ffacb75529~mv2.webp)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4265cf_59d46dbf56da40e399a0135b864b92fb~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_500,h_375,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4265cf_59d46dbf56da40e399a0135b864b92fb~mv2.webp)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4265cf_edc9cfcd5d4140e7a4afbcb8021342a3~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_500,h_375,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4265cf_edc9cfcd5d4140e7a4afbcb8021342a3~mv2.webp)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4265cf_20d831eedb264f1ba4540f701e9323fe~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_500,h_375,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4265cf_20d831eedb264f1ba4540f701e9323fe~mv2.webp)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4265cf_3993e55dc5564661b78e1b82cb98f118~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_500,h_375,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4265cf_3993e55dc5564661b78e1b82cb98f118~mv2.webp)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4265cf_f80fb384e38f44a38398bcc50e77582a~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_500,h_375,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/4265cf_f80fb384e38f44a38398bcc50e77582a~mv2.webp)
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Thank you! That’s really helpful.
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James,
Thanks for posting these great pictures. I've got the 15mm Eureka figures in the pile, but have now ordered some of these 28mm jems.
Bill
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... what would you like to see added to the line?
How about a model of Maquinna with the war club John R. Jewitt made for him? :) I think he even used it on a raid once.
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Maquinna, The Nootka Chief. I have heard of him.
I might have an idea for that. Do you know what the club looked like?
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I have the book by Hilary Stewart- I will see if I can find a description.
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I’ve got another dozen Tlingit from Varang Miniatures on the painting table at the moment - having great fun with the crazy helmets! The totem pole is a little small but thought I’d get it painted up anyway.
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those are awesome....
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those are awesome....
They certainly are :-* :-* :-*
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Contrast paints?
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Are these more to the size you were thinking of?
One is from Timpo (54mm Western Gunfight range)
One is made from two from Poundland Western Gunfight range. They only
mould the front, so that is why I used two (back to back)
The smallest one is, I believe, from Grenadier.
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:-* :-* :-*
This just gets better and better.....
I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next and to hopefully one day seeing a game based around the Tlingit at a show James ;) :)
I'll be there, camera in hand as per.
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Wow! Love those totem poles and the figs...they do look so fun to paint.
Keep it up - very inspiring!
Mike Demana
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Tlingit Fort and village,,etc,,and Haida people.
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Thanks for all the images everyone. Keep them coming! I’m collecting inspiration pretty much all the time. I’d love to build a Tlingit village but need to plan ahead as to what games I actually want to run.
Thanks for the totem pole pics. None of the toy ones are quite right so it may be a case of sculpting my own or perhaps 3d printing. Probably going to be the same story with canoes.
Here’s the latest crazy war helmets in progress from the painting table. Yes, I am using GW Contrast paints as base coats, followed by various highlights. The range of browns is perfect for this subject.
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:-* :-* :-*
Slightly OT and forgive my ignorance but do 'we' know much about the Tlingit culture? Spiritual beliefs in particular?
If anyone can point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful. :)
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:-* :-* :-*
Slightly OT and forgive my ignorance but do 'we' know much about the Tlingit culture? Spiritual beliefs in particular?
If anyone can point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful. :)
Hi Darrell, there is plenty to read and watch about this subject. The Tlingit are very similar to other northwest coast tribes with potlatch rituals and shamanism.
I really enjoyed this short BBC series (sadly it has just gone from iplayer but you can watch clips
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07m771x
This website is also a good start:
https://m.warpaths2peacepipes.com/indian-tribes/tlingit-tribe.htm
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Hi Darrell, there is plenty to read and watch about this subject. The Tlingit are very similar to other northwest coast tribes with potlatch rituals and shamanism.
I really enjoyed this short BBC series (sadly it has just gone from iplayer but you can watch clips
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07m771x
Ah, that's a shame I missed that..... still, the BBC tend to recycle stuff on iPlayer so i may yet be in luck.
This website is also a good start:
https://m.warpaths2peacepipes.com/indian-tribes/tlingit-tribe.htm
Thanks James 8)
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James, I managed to find something on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIibbUVVJ74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIibbUVVJ74)
There are some beautiful weaves on there in what were likely to be original colours which no doubt differ from museum pieces due to discolouring with age.
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James, I managed to find something on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIibbUVVJ74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIibbUVVJ74)
There are some beautiful weaves on there in what were likely to be original colours which no doubt differ from museum pieces due to discolouring with age.
Yes, quite a few good Tlingit/ northwest coast tribe videos on Youtube. There is a deep heritage here that many of the younger First Nations members are recording and sharing on video.
I just found both of those BBC episodes on Youtube too. Definitely worth a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Sg73zJ_LA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Sg73zJ_LA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAF8Lyg3Hzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAF8Lyg3Hzg)
And, for variety, a 12 minute film from a modern Tlingit armourer/ carver about warriors' armour. I found this pretty interesting!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDsz3g3zAg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDsz3g3zAg)
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Yes, quite a few good Tlingit/ northwest coast tribe videos on Youtube. There is a deep heritage here that many of the younger First Nations members are recording and sharing on video.
Glad it was of interest.
I just found both of those BBC episodes on Youtube too. Definitely worth a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Sg73zJ_LA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Sg73zJ_LA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAF8Lyg3Hzg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAF8Lyg3Hzg)
And, for variety, a 12 minute film from a modern Tlingit armourer/ carver about warriors' armour. I found this pretty interesting!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDsz3g3zAg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDsz3g3zAg)
Fab. Added to my Watch Later list 8) Good breakfast viewing tomorrow morning :)
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Maquinna, The Nootka Chief. I have heard of him.
I might have an idea for that. Do you know what the club looked like?
Jewitt's own description is pretty good:
"... he (Maquinna) wished me to make for his own use a weapon of quite a different form, in order to dispatch his enemy by one blow on the head, it being the calculation of these nations on going to war to suprise their adversaries while asleep. This was a steel dagger, or more properly a spike, of about six inches long made very sharp, set at right angles in an iron handle of fifteen inches long, terminating at the lower end in a crook or turn, so as to prevent it's being wrenched from the hand, and at the upper, in a round knob or head, from whence the spike protruded. This instrument I polished highly, and the more to please Maquina, formed on the back of the knob, the resemblance of a man's head, with mouth open, substituting for eyes, black beads, which I fastened in with red sealing wax."
He also gives a good description of a 'cheeltoolth' (war club). This is from The Adventures and Sufferings of John R. Jewitt, Capive of Maquinna: Annotated and Illustrated By Hilary Stewart.
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Codsticker - I read this four times. It sound like a version of the standard Tlingit Dagger.
Here is a image of the dagger i found
(http://www.jewitt.com/uploads/5/8/0/2/58022699/knife-with-iron-blade-illustration-by-hilary-stewart_orig.jpg)
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The images you have shown there are specifically daggers, and the "spike" part certainly may well have looked like the blades of those pieces but it is set in a ball at the end of, and at a right angle to, an iron handle 15" long in the above description. The design was distinct enough that other tyees wanted Jewitt to make them one but Maquina forbid it.
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Ok i took a deeper dive, could the have been a spiked club? The Tlingit used sickle bladed clubs. Some time ago I found a odd club that does not match the others I found. Here is a picture of that club -
(http://www.forensicfashion.com/files/1792KwakiutlWarriorClubBrooklyn01.jpg)
This comes close to what you are thinking. A club with a spike at a right angle. About 15 inches, and with a head at one end with a face. While this does no match the description perfectly, would you say it was close?
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Yeah, it looks similar.
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Here are some of the PNW Tribes Heroes, Shaman, Totem Pole and the Witch Hunter
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115871368_4048822351859086_3758510321507315237_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=aadVeRPs0E4AX8k0lyF&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=dd8ba2bfc93af773b112acc24ef8b3f8&oe=5F3FFEC1)
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115824445_4048822771859044_2846770942733919180_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=2jThpHyIVZgAX9TDDYd&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=1a640cfdbc6921a8a85432acec64591a&oe=5F3EB337)
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/115908400_4048823098525678_1496754969449418151_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=TCWbwVkbhigAX9M_r-F&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=7d030088d17cc06bce16cbcc094db2e9&oe=5F3FB3E5)
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/109483060_4048823381858983_3922954238535559431_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=x4lb3-9ccOAAX8GXVSn&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=3cc873378036ba14ee6017d6795a2290&oe=5F3FC657)
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The Russians did not have a regular military force in Alaska. They were armed settlers. So I think that figurines of Russian partisans of 1812 are well suited for depicting Russian detachments - folk clothes have had little change over long periods.
Perry has these figures, but they have few firearms and you will probably need a conversion.
(http://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/RN%2057.jpg)
(http://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/RN%2058.JPG)
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Great idea Cuprum
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Cuprum, those are excellent, great idea! There are also some sailors involved in the fighting at Sitka so I guess these might be more uniform (but probably not much).
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The Russian-American Company had no special armed forces or ships. I don't think her sailors, other than officers, had any uniforms. Russian military sailors during this period were not civilians and could not go to service in the commercial fleet (except for officers).
Three-quarters of the number of Russian troops in the wars with the Tlingits were Eskimos and Aleuts, often armed only with cold weapons.
According to the recollections of the participants in the battles, the armor and helmets of the Tlingit were so good that they very often withstood the hit of a musket bullet.
The Russians, in turn, often used chain mail, dressed under clothing. They were armed with muskets, pistols, sometimes sabers.
Both the Russians and the Indians used small-caliber artillery in battle, especially during the sieges of settlements.
Russian-American Company Flag:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_Russian-American_Company.svg/1920px-Flag_of_the_Russian-American_Company.svg.png)
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:) This thread started out to be really interesting... and just keeps getting better and better. I wish more threads provided as much historical insight and so many details concerning various "bits 'n pieces." Thanks so much for starting this and to all who keep adding to it.
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Russian warship, Tlingit warrior
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Russian warship, Tlingit warrior
The Tlingit warrior graphic is brill- a very good piece of work!! :-*
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The Russian-American Company had no special armed forces or ships. I don't think her sailors, other than officers, had any uniforms. Russian military sailors during this period were not civilians and could not go to service in the commercial fleet (except for officers).
Three-quarters of the number of Russian troops in the wars with the Tlingits were Eskimos and Aleuts, often armed only with cold weapons.
According to the recollections of the participants in the battles, the armor and helmets of the Tlingit were so good that they very often withstood the hit of a musket bullet.
The Russians, in turn, often used chain mail, dressed under clothing. They were armed with muskets, pistols, sometimes sabers.
Both the Russians and the Indians used small-caliber artillery in battle, especially during the sieges of settlements.
Russian-American Company Flag:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_Russian-American_Company.svg/1920px-Flag_of_the_Russian-American_Company.svg.png)
That’s all really helpful, thank you cuprum! I had read about Baranov wearing a mail shirt and giving it to a local chief when he was finally recalled to Russia, but I didn’t realise the practice was more widespread. I certainly plan to make my Tlingit warriors slightly more resistant in their armour (probably easily done using Muskets and Tomahawks, as I plan to.
Going back to Russian minis, I had a quick look at these Foundry Cossacks. Probably a little bit too Cossack and in need of some head swaps, but they will match the Varang figures size-wise.
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Might some Cossacks have found their way over there as individual adventurers?
Re. the Indigenous warriors, would they already have worn some of that scale armour that was made from brass or bronze Chinese coins?
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It is important to note, that the Tlingit and other Tribes of the Pacific Northwest faced more forces then Russian and other PNW First Nations. They also battle British/ Canadian, Spanish Colonial forces, and American forces from time to time. According to oral tradition of the Tlingit or Tsimshian (i can not remember which) conducted a massive raid on Korea and the Northern most island of Japan. After the Russians took a firm hold on Alaska, several tribes started to raid and collect resources from places they have not gone before like California and Hawaii. It was not uncommon for the Tlingit, Tsimshian and Haida to attack European and American Tall Ships. The Haida leader Koyah captured four tall ships.
Coin mail armor was common. Asian coins was a trade good
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Only some figurines could be used if historicity is your concern.
I think that Russian settlers largely adopted the clothes of local peoples, especially warm ones))) After all, it was the most practical in those conditions.
The Cossacks could have ended up in Alaska, but they would hardly have differed in appearance from all other Russians.
I have some Tlingit images that can give some good ideas for painting figurines. Go here:
http://siberia-miniatures.ru/forum/showthread.php?fid=10&tid=350
There are also images of the reconstruction of the Tlingit armor:
(http://b.radikal.ru/b22/1808/81/a08a59048788.png)
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That’s another great link, cuprum. Some great pics in there. I will go through it in detail later. Thank you.
I read about the skirmishes with the other nations - lots of possibilities there. I’m going to concentrate on getting a decent Tlingit warband first and will look around for opponents when that’s done.
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Here are some battles and conflicts that you might want to look up
Puget Sound War 1855-1856 - Americans vs Nisqually
Battle of Port Gamble 1859 - Americans vs Tlingit and Haida
Battle of Seattle 1859 - Americans vs Nisqually
Battle of Sitka 1804 - Russians vs Tlingit
The Nootka Crisis 1789 - Spanish vs British vs Nootka
Awa'uq Massacre 1784 - Russian vs Aleutian
The Lamalcha War 1863 - British/ Canadians vs Hwlitsum
Chilcotin War 1864 - Canadian vs Chilcotin
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Here are some battles and conflicts that you might want to look up
Puget Sound War 1855-1856 - Americans vs Nisqually
Battle of Port Gamble 1859 - Americans vs Tlingit and Haida
Battle of Seattle 1859 - Americans vs Nisqually
Battle of Sitka 1804 - Russians vs Tlingit
The Nootka Crisis 1789 - Spanish vs British vs Nootka
Awa'uq Massacre 1784 - Russian vs Aleutian
The Lamalcha War 1863 - British/ Canadians vs Hwlitsum
Chilcotin War 1864 - Canadian vs Chilcotin
This thread really engrossing stuff.
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I have to do this...
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Apologies for the slight thread Hijack - but does anyone know if the PNW tribes were still wearing armour in the 1850s/1860s?
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Apologies for the slight thread Hijack - but does anyone know if the PNW tribes were still wearing armour in the 1850s/1860s?
Yes, the Tlingit and Haida wore armor until the 1870s give or take when wide spread conflict between First Nations and Settlers in the PNW ended. Largely The PNW first nations were not much of a threat to settlers after that. Lots of reasons for that with small pox and other epidemics being the main cause. The Canadian government at the time considered the first nations of the PNW a dyeing race and did not consider them an issue. They relocated the remaining first nations they came across to reservations with little conflict. The Tlingit and Haida were some of the last tribes to hold outs.
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Here are some battles and conflicts that you might want to look up
Puget Sound War 1855-1856 - Americans vs Nisqually
Battle of Port Gamble 1859 - Americans vs Tlingit and Haida
Battle of Seattle 1859 - Americans vs Nisqually
Battle of Sitka 1804 - Russians vs Tlingit
The Nootka Crisis 1789 - Spanish vs British vs Nootka
Awa'uq Massacre 1784 - Russian vs Aleutian
The Lamalcha War 1863 - British/ Canadians vs Hwlitsum
Chilcotin War 1864 - Canadian vs Chilcotin
Here's another one my son just told me about: the Fraser Canyon War (link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Canyon_War)).
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Here’s the latest from the painting table. All Varang Miniatures, photo background is a download from Jon Hodgson Maps.
This batch includes a shaman in full raven costume and a totem pole (a bit undersized but fun to paint). Also included is Katlian, war leader during the Sitka battles of 1802 and 1804, wearing his distinctive raven helmet and carrying his blacksmith’s hammer. The red tunic was my own addition, but I read that red cloth was highly valued by the Tlingit so it didn’t seem too fanciful (plus it will help to identify him on the table).
Another thing I picked up recently was that the bow was fired horizontally rather than vertically- fortunately, the figures come with a separate bow with the hand moulded on which simply glues into a hole on the left wrist. Great design by Varang minis!
It strikes me that the two unarmoured figures would easily serve as other tribes - Eyak, Haida etc.
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Brilliant work- really vibrant and sort of gritty at once :-* :-* :-*
I love the refercne to the black smiths hammer- was it precious as an object or as both an object and a weapon?
As for loosing the bow horizontally, I don't think that this would effect the trajectory of the arrow as you're effectively nocking the bow in the normal manner ie over/around the thumb
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Those are wonderfully done..Also here is Model of Ft.Sitka.
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Those are fantastic! I imagine there are many others readers contemplating this project, now, as well... :o
Mike Demana
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I believe there are several truly original and worthy projects running through this forum at the moment and this is definitely one of them. What a great subject and execution. I really admire your work. Thank you for sharing and keeping us updated.
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These are excellent figures and excellent painting. I am sorely tempted to order some.
Looking on their Facebook page, it looks like you can only order the whole range as one package - is that good value for money?
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Those are wonderfully done..Also here is Model of Ft.Sitka.
That model is interesting - it looks as though there are some wooden palisades enclosing the far side. Actually,
i suppose that the Russians would have built wooden fortifications and other structures that were much as elsewhere in their empire.
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These are excellent figures and excellent painting. I am sorely tempted to order some.
Looking on their Facebook page, it looks like you can only order the whole range as one package - is that good value for money?
Thank you! The way to order is to send them a message. Both times I have ordered, I’ve just specified how many figures I want and which types and he’s sent me a price and shipping costs.
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I believe there are several truly original and worthy projects running through this forum at the moment and this is definitely one of them. What a great subject and execution. I really admire your work. Thank you for sharing and keeping us updated.
Thank you, it’s great to know you are enjoying it. I’m delighted that so many knowledgeable folk have pitched in as well to help out. For all the vitriol and rubbish out there, LAF remains an oasis of helpfulness on the interweb.
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Thank you, it’s great to know you are enjoying it. I’m delighted that so many knowledgeable folk have pitched in as well to help out. For all the vitriol and rubbish out there, LAF remains an oasis of helpfulness on the interweb.
Well said that man! It's a haven of sanity and manners. Not so much with some of the other social media outlets. :)
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Brilliant work- really vibrant and sort of gritty at once :-* :-* :-*
I love the refercne to the black smiths hammer- was it precious as an object or as both an object and a weapon?
As for loosing the bow horizontally, I don't think that this would effect the trajectory of the arrow as you're effectively nocking the bow in the normal manner ie over/around the thumb
Thanks Darrell! If I recall correctly, Katlian grabbed a Russian blacksmith’s hammer and used it as a weapon in the first Sitka battle in 1802; thereafter it became his trademark weapon (I sound like I’m writing a video game character here...signature moves and all that).
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Thanks Darrell! If I recall correctly, Katlian grabbed a Russian blacksmith’s hammer and used it as a weapon in the first Sitka battle in 1802; thereafter it became his trademark weapon
Blimey! :o Well, if that was his thing :)
sound like I’m writing a video game character here...signature moves and all that.
lol
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Here is something to add to this project: I would need some Haida Warriors to flesh out the Pacific Northwest. From earliest times they were feared for their raiding up and down the coast. They even instigated full on naval battles using their beautifully painted war canoes. They were know to some as the Vikings of the North West Coast.
“ Those were stirring times, about a century ago, when the big Haida war canoes, each hollowed out of a single cedar tree and manned by fifty or sixty warriors, traded and raided up and down the coast from Sitka in the north to the delta of the Fraser River in the south. Each usually carried a shaman or medicine man to catch and destroy the souls of enemies before an impending battle; and the women who sometimes accompanied the warriors fought as savagely as their husbands.”
“ Even prehistorically, the Haida engaged in sea battles. They tied cedar bark ropes to heavy stone rings that were hurled to smash enemy canoes and that could quickly be retrieved for subsequent throws. A stone weighing 18 to 23 kg (40 to 50 pounds) could shatter the side of a dugout canoe and cause it to founder. Most tribes avoided sea battles with the Haida and tried to lure them ashore for a more equitable fight. The Tsimshian developed a signal-fire system to alert their villages on the Skeena River as soon as Haida invaders reached the mainland”
From The Canadian Museum of History website:
https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/aborig/haida/havwa01e.html
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“ Even prehistorically, the Haida engaged in sea battles. They tied cedar bark ropes to heavy stone rings that were hurled to smash enemy canoes and that could quickly be retrieved for subsequent throws. A stone weighing 18 to 23 kg (40 to 50 pounds) could shatter the side of a dugout canoe and cause it to founder. Most tribes avoided sea battles with the Haida and tried to lure them ashore for a more equitable fight. The Tsimshian developed a signal-fire system to alert their villages on the Skeena River as soon as Haida invaders reached the mainland”
This is why i designed the Stone Thrower model for my PNW tribes line -
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4265cf_6c2ee96922a249709e713272fda7b365~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_293,h_362,al_c,q_85/4265cf_6c2ee96922a249709e713272fda7b365~mv2.webp)
https://www.paymastergames.com/product-page/pacific-northwest-warrior-stone-thrower (https://www.paymastergames.com/product-page/pacific-northwest-warrior-stone-thrower)
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This is why i designed the Stone Thrower model for my PNW tribes line
The picture didn’t come up for me, but your link did. Excellent, and I will have to have a closer look at your miniatures. Thanks for the heads up.
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Thank you! The way to order is to send them a message. Both times I have ordered, I’ve just specified how many figures I want and which types and he’s sent me a price and shipping costs.
Thanks! Will contact him soon.
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Fireforge games have some medieval steppe warriors and russians that might serve, at least as bases for conversions:
https://fireforge-games.com/mongol-horde/16-steppe-warriors.html (https://fireforge-games.com/mongol-horde/16-steppe-warriors.html) You can probably buy single sprues of these on ebay.
https://fireforge-games.com/medieval-russians/286-city-militia-with-spears.html (https://fireforge-games.com/medieval-russians/286-city-militia-with-spears.html)
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Personal Update - Sculpting
Day 1
As a old Warhammer Fantasy Battle player from the old days of the gaming hobby. I started playing with 5th edition, and back then it was not uncommon to have large portions of your army that you had to build your self, since the model did not exist. not only that it was not uncommon to have miscasts and gaps in the old metal models. So I have been using green stuff to fill the gaps, and build body parts to finish the conversions i was working on.
When my wife picked up a new hobby (dying yarn) and started doing really well with it. I wanted to try something i have not tried before. So i wanted to play around with sculpting a full model. I already had two full sets of sculpting tools. So i went to Green Stuff World (http://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/), and got some Green Stuff, some new tools, wires and rods. My wife found some 28mm armatures in my office that i got some time ago for reasons i no longer remember.
So this is what i am doing. I found a old wood block image of a Nootka Chieftain, Cunnyha. The image looked great for a first attempt.
So i took a armature and started fleshing it out. So here is the first couple of hours. What do you think? Good Start?
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117273179_4120014138073240_4998342719369147715_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=3ynT25X1KwAAX9OK8A5&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=66310f335ea2ecc7323984c14f8de9ab&oe=5F541B4B)
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117095051_4120016834739637_5202602742007965727_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=VOS-2-Vy6ykAX-EtRGx&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=85dc6435e511b381e4b6b5be55e8ff49&oe=5F541928)
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116632432_4120016708072983_5627748393221773642_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=h4CRLEJVraoAX9iKOj4&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=61fd89c451e76279c831e9008dc1c049&oe=5F516C2C)
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good luck.
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Ordered mine last month, but they have been languishing in customs for nearly four weeks!
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Not necessary. Nowadays, many postal items go without intermediate marks. In connection with the pandemic, the postal services have been disrupted and are now gradually returning to normal.
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What a cracking idea!
Great painting on some wonderful figures.
:-* :-*
Also, you can count me as another seriously intrigued with this genre, having no previous knowledge whatsoever.
I shall be popping back later when I have time to properly look into all these links, references etc.
It has been a while since I found a project so 'original' (to me, anyway).
Thank you very much for starting this thread.
:)
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This has been such an inspirational and impressive read. I'm looking forward to following along from here!
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What a cracking idea!
Great painting on some wonderful figures.
:-* :-*
Also, you can count me as another seriously intrigued with this genre, having no previous knowledge whatsoever.
I shall be popping back later when I have time to properly look into all these links, references etc.
It has been a while since I found a project so 'original' (to me, anyway).
Thank you very much for starting this thread.
:)
Cheers! I’m taking a break from these right now (although I have based up 130 conifers to start the Canadian forest off...). I will post as soon as I have more under way.
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Cheers! I’m taking a break from these right now (although I have based up 130 conifers to start the Canadian forest off...). I will post as soon as I have more under way.
Good news that the project is continuing. It's one of the most interesting I've encountered in all my years of pushing lead around. 8)
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After a few months off, I’m back on project Tlingit. Been working on some tribesmen allied to the Russians (Varang Miniatures unarmoured Tlingit with some head swaps) and some trial Russians (Galloping Major and Kings Mountain Minis with some conversion work). Varang are apparently working on Russians and Aleuts, but they won’t be available for a while and I’m keen to do some gaming with these guys before Christmas. I also discovered that Victrix Viking heads in furry hats do the job nicely for 18th century Russian fur hunters! Big thanks to Lance at Galloping Major who has been helping me out with advice and samples.
Also been doing some background reading on the Russians in Alaska - many shades of the rough end of colonialism, that’s for sure. Some of it is hard reading.
The photo background is a download from Jon Hodgson’s Patreon site:
https://www.patreon.com/jonhodgsonmaps
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Russians look perfect.
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Russians look perfect.
They do indeed, and you are right: Those placcy Victrix heads seem to fit the bill nicely.
Glad to these project up and running again.
8) :) 8)
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Which sources did you use for the Tlingit head swaps?
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Ah...... great to see this project pack on the move James.
The Russian conversions look very convincing 8)
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Appreciate all the conversion work you're doing and the effort you put into your basing.
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Which sources did you use for the Tlingit head swaps?
One is a Westwind Arthurian head, and the other a Wargames Atlantic Dark Age Irishman. lol
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One is a Westwind Arthurian head, and the other a Wargames Atlantic Dark Age Irishman. lol
Descended from Madog's men?
This is a fascinating and well done project.
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Box of even more Tlingit just arrived from Russia! Canoes are metal, which is a bit crazy, but I’ve gone for a couple to save time with scratchbuilding. Anyway, the crew are nice.
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Can't wait :)
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Box of even more Tlingit just arrived from Russia! Canoes are metal, which is a bit crazy, but I’ve gone for a couple to save time with scratchbuilding. Anyway, the crew are nice.
Are the crew available separately?
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Appreciate all the conversion work you're doing and the effort you put into your basing.
Cheers! I’ve enjoyed doing darker woodland bases on these. They also have a little sand from British Columbia on them.
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Ah...... great to see this project pack on the move James.
The Russian conversions look very convincing 8)
Cheers Darrel! I think the Russians are ok. I suspect more of them would have been wearing some native clothes but they look Russian to me!
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Are the crew available separately?
I presume so. It’s not clear from his Facebook page, but I’ve just been able to specify individual bits and pieces whenever I’ve ordered.
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Have you found either of the Ospreys on Russian fortifications to be particularly useful for the Russian side of your project?
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Have you found either of the Ospreys on Russian fortifications to be particularly useful for the Russian side of your project?
Haven’t even looked at them, to be honest. There are surviving drawings of the Russian settlements and some reconstructions in Alaska- so I’ll probably look at that for source material if I get onto that side of things.
The more I read about the Russians in Alaska, it’s very clear that they were operating on a shoestring at the limit of a long supply chain.
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My guess is that log construction know-how must have been highly portable, and that customary approaches would have been likely. Might ostrogs from earlier colonization in Siberia have been the inspiration?
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Without any doubt. The Russians had a lot of experience in colonizing Siberia, and all Russian fortifications were uniform in appearance.
Here I have already given sketches of typical Russian forts (ostrog).
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111232.375
You can also now see a perfectly preserved Russian fortification in the USA - Fort Ross. Although the fence is not typical there, usually it was not boards, but whole logs - it was both stronger and more reliable.
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Without any doubt. The Russians had a lot of experience in colonizing Siberia, and all Russian fortifications were uniform in appearance.
Here I have already given sketches of typical Russian forts (ostrog).
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111232.375
You can also now see a perfectly preserved Russian fortification in the USA - Fort Ross. Although the fence is not typical there, usually it was not boards, but whole logs - it was both stronger and more reliable.
Thank you, cuprum! Yes, sawing boards must also have taken more time and effort than using logs!
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Without any doubt. The Russians had a lot of experience in colonizing Siberia, and all Russian fortifications were uniform in appearance.
Here I have already given sketches of typical Russian forts (ostrog).
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111232.375
You can also now see a perfectly preserved Russian fortification in the USA - Fort Ross. Although the fence is not typical there, usually it was not boards, but whole logs - it was both stronger and more reliable.
I’d missed this thread - thank you for the pics! I’m not building anything just yet but this is excellent reference for the future.
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Having a go at painting my first Tlingit canoe. So far, so good.
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:o That looks really great James 8)
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Thanks Lance!
The canoe painting continues. Not quite happy with these yet but enjoying the painting.
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The first Tlingit canoe is done! It’s a bit of a beast, one piece metal casting plus crew. All the original crew were wearing the classic rain hat so I did some head swaps with some of the other Varang Miniatures.
I’ve just finished off several dozen figures for this project so more snaps to come very soon.
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:-* :-* :-*
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Wow!
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Lovely work all around! :-* :-*
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Just a thought James but they would look awfully good at The Other Partizan in November! ;) :D Now an actual possibility!! :o
Nor Orcs though! ;) :)
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Just a thought James but they would look awfully good at The Other Partizan in November! ;) :D Now an actual possibility!! :o
Nor Orcs though! ;) :)
I would love to bring this game to a show when I have enough stuff. Let’s hope.
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And now here are some Russians. All Galloping Major or Kings Mountain Minis with some conversion work, mostly head swaps. The KMM heads are great for this, although Frostgrave wizards and a Victrix Viking also feature!
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A wonderfully cool thread James! 8)
Christopher
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And now here are some Russians. All Galloping Major or Kings Mountain Minis with some conversion work, mostly head swaps.
And very grand they look too :-*
The KMM heads are great for this, although Frostgrave wizards and a Victrix Viking also feature!
Hmmmmm Norse Rus? Oh hang on..... ;) :D (ирония)
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Amazing collection.
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Next up are some more Tlingit warriors with a few head swaps, and a handful of Aleuts allied to the Russians. These are a bit makeshift (Varang Minis with a few headswaps and a different colour scheme) but they will do well enough until some actual Aleuts are available!
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so cool...so tempted.
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Fab stuff James :-*
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I lent my collection to Wargames Illustrated last week for a photo shoot...hopefully see an article in print soon.
https://www.facebook.com/WargamesIllustrated/posts/3695570053871030 (https://www.facebook.com/WargamesIllustrated/posts/3695570053871030)
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I lent my collection to Wargames Illustrated last week for a photo shoot...hopefully see an article in print soon.
https://www.facebook.com/WargamesIllustrated/posts/3695570053871030
I look forward to seeing how this article turns out. One day I'll have to add a few of these figures to my collection, alongside my 15mm DBA army.
Keep up the good work.
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Great stuff! I particularly like your Russian kitbashed conversions. I will need to try something similar.
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Excellent news James. any idea which edition WI have it pencilled in for?
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Have you seen this?
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2021/01/lost-alaskan-fort-of-the-tlingit-discovered/136918
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@WuZhuiQiu - interestng article, thanks for posting it.
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Have you seen this?
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2021/01/lost-alaskan-fort-of-the-tlingit-discovered/136918
Wow! This might give some focus to the developing project. Thanks for posting!
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Wow! This might give some focus to the developing project. Thanks for posting!
An amazing backdrop feature for a future game. Or centre piece. 8)
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Wow! This might give some focus to the developing project. Thanks for posting!
You're very welcome! At the moment, the original article from Antiquity would seem to be available as a downloadable PDF:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/geophysical-survey-locates-an-elusive-tlingit-fort-in-southeast-alaska/F665415C1CEA85ADF996BA9C4ABC970B
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Excellent news James. any idea which edition WI have it pencilled in for?
I do now. Looks like it’s in the next issue of WI, 399.
https://www.wargamesillustrated.net/product/wi399-march-2021/ (https://www.wargamesillustrated.net/product/wi399-march-2021/)
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I do now. Looks like it’s in the next issue of WI, 399.
https://www.wargamesillustrated.net/product/wi399-march-2021/ (https://www.wargamesillustrated.net/product/wi399-march-2021/)
Brill. As good as ordered :)
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So original, so fresh, so wow!
o_o
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My article about the Tlingit has made it into the latest Wargames Illustrated, issue 399, March 2021. Very chuffed to have got such an obscure subject into print and models to go with it!
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Congratulations.
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My article about the Tlingit has made it into the latest Wargames Illustrated, issue 399, March 2021. Very chuffed to have got such an obscure subject into print and models to go with it!
I have it in my own hands! Congrats! 8 Pages!
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I read the article online yesterday and it has inspired me to finally start painting the Tlingit that arrived with me last September.
I left it so long that the obscure thing that I bought has become mainstream lol
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I read the article online yesterday and it has inspired me to finally start painting the Tlingit that arrived with me last September.
I left it so long that the obscure thing that I bought has become mainstream lol
Ha ha! That’s great news. Please post pics when you have done some. I’m still planning the next phase of the project and have about another forty Tlingit to get through before I start thinking about buildings etc!
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A little video telling the story of the Tlingit attack on the Russians on Nuchek Island in 1792 has appeared on the Wargames Illustrated YouTube channel. Here’s the link;
https://youtu.be/RT6hbvymut0 (https://youtu.be/RT6hbvymut0)
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My article about the Tlingit has made it into the latest Wargames Illustrated, issue 399, March 2021. Very chuffed to have got such an obscure subject into print and models to go with it!
Congratulations! That number would not yet seem to have reached the shelves here, but I am going to look for it until I find a copy.
By the way, have you come across any references which include hull lines for Tlingit canoes? I may want to try my hand at carving a 1:56 scale one out of pine or some other softwood.
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By the way, have you come across any references which include hull lines for Tlingit canoes? I may want to try my hand at carving a 1:56 scale one out of pine or some other softwood.
That would be amazing to see. I was considering having a go at scratch building mine but ended up ordering the metal ones, partially for speed and partially out of curiosity.
Here’s some pics I’ve put together. The profiles are from the Osprey ‘American Indians of the Pacific Northwest’ plus some photos and images that you may have seen before. Also enclosed a couple of photos of the Varang canoe in its raw state. I think the shape is good but the benches have been left out, although that does make it easier to fit figures inside it for gaming purposes.
I suspect that this would be a perfect thing to do on a 3D printer, but have not seen a file for this kind of canoe.
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James, that is just crazy good! :o
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That would be amazing to see. I was considering having a go at scratch building mine but ended up ordering the metal ones, partially for speed and partially out of curiosity.
[much helpful information]
I suspect that this would be a perfect thing to do on a 3D printer, but have not seen a file for this kind of canoe.
Thank you! Yes, using 3D files would seem to be displacing scratch-building. Perhaps, there might be a way of importing hull lines into a 3D design application, but I wouldn't know where to begin learning 3D design...
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I stumbled across the article while looking at a vsf one . Out of interest how easy was it to order the miniatures in from Russia ? How easy an more importantly the costs are .
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I stumbled across the article while looking at a vsf one . Out of interest how easy was it to order the miniatures in from Russia ? How easy an more importantly the costs are .
I guess that probably depends where you are. I’m in the uk and placed 3 orders last year, which took between 3 and 5 weeks to arrive (5 weeks at the height of the first lockdown). Postal costs were quite reasonable IIRC. All orders were sent tracked and very well packaged. The best thing to do is message Varang on Facebook and ask for a quote. One thing their site is lacking is individual order codes, but I just told him which figures I wanted and he put an invoice together for me.
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Thanks James uk based as well 👍
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I found some drawings of canoe lines:
https://donsmaps.com/canoedesigns.html
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OK, I've given in an my order of Tlingit have arrived, are undercoated, one batch have head swaps etc and are awaiting painting. I have been waiting since the late 80's for a manufacturer to do this in 25 /28mm so I thought I'd share with you the article that sparked my interest all those years ago.
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and more:
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Wow, fabulous colour plates! Any chance you could scan the whole article?
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Some new models on the workbench in preparation for a Battle of Sitka game. Varang Miniatures are great for head and helmet swaps - they also do some separate helmets which makes life very easy! About forty of these guys in preparation tonight.
On TWD’s suggestion, I’ve also had a look at using the Frostgrave barbarians as a basis for more northwest coast tribes. So far, so good I think. Clothing is slightly fantastical but should look ok when painted.
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Nice conversions on the Tlingit metals and and some super use of the Barbarians. Can't wait to see these painted up.
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Paint is now going on, albeit slowly as real life is really in the way right now!
I’ve gone for a whiter vibe for the colours of the Russian allied native Americans (Aleuts/ Kodiak) to differentiate them from the Tlingit on the tabletop. Paint is 80% GW Contrasts with some thinning and highlights.
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Simply excellent :-*
It has to be one of my favourite's out of the whole gamut of your excellent projects James. OK, the Early Medieval/Sub roman stuff will always come first for me; but having said that this is an extraordinarily original subject matter and such a wonderful collection of models and scenery 8)
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Great painting and I appreciate your persistence in this off the beaten track project. Not my period but I always check in to see the good stuff you are putting out here.
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Good idea adjusting the paint schemes to make it easier for players to differentiate on the tabletop. My favorite in that regard was one of my French & Indian War native vs. native scenarios. I told the players one side was "shirts" and the other side was "skins." One side used my miniatures that had shirts on and the other side used my bare-chested native Americans. lol
Mike Demana
http://leadlegionaries.blogspot.com/
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Good idea adjusting the paint schemes to make it easier for players to differentiate on the tabletop. My favorite in that regard was one of my French & Indian War native vs. native scenarios. I told the players one side was "shirts" and the other side was "skins." One side used my miniatures that had shirts on and the other side used my bare-chested native Americans. lol
Mike Demana
http://leadlegionaries.blogspot.com/
Shirts and skins - sometimes the old ways are the best! I remember falling foul of this many years ago, when my 15mm Dark Ages collection was TOO subtle. Since then, I've gone for slightly exaggerated flags, clothing, shields and colour schemes to keep things easy to spot on the table! lol
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So...I still have around 60 Tlingit and Aleut half-finished on the painting table, disrupted by work and other things.
However, things are moving in Moscow, and Varang Miniatures have started the next phase of their ranges. Vselevod is currently sculpting Russians which he plans to have separate heads for (I thoroughly approve). No release date or anything on these, but here's some of his updates from Facebook in case you don't follow him there.
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Nice coversions.
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I would love to do some of these for sci fi conversions they are so characterful .
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@3Fingers2... Ed at Battle Valor Games bought the old Sgt Majors 28mm ranges and there are a couple packs of Inuits in there, some with bows and some with rifles, my memory is they seem more modern than the Tlingits, and a few packs of figures called Winter Soldiers or Winter Warriors, or some such, that are vey much like Cossacks, mounted and dismounted, but with more futurisitc weapons. Maybe something for you and something that can serve as basis for some more of James great conversions.
I so like this thread.
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delete