Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: Marshall on July 10, 2020, 12:49:20 PM
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I've always had an interest in ECW and always had my eye on a new model army force. I've jumped in an d bought warlords for king and country starter and a unit of infanrty and a unit of firelocks.
What i'm after knowing is what rules sets should i be after as there seem to be a lot. I'd like to play medium to skirmish level games early on then build up to the larger games.
out of tge rules sets i've seen pike & shotte, forlorn hope, 1644, pikemans lament and warhammer ECW which works well and what is manageble early on?
On the subject of rules sets how best to base my models? i'm an old fantsy palyer at heart so i've always prefered single 20mm bases. does this work for the above
Also i'm based in Manchester, are there are there any clubs/players in the north west?
Many thanks
marsh
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The best 28mm ECW rules that I have ever played were from The Perfect Captain and called Very Civil Actions.
They are geared towards smaller actions though definitely not skirmish level.
The great thing about these rules is that they are free, though if you are a man/woman of conscience you would make a donation to a charity.
Available here:
http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/vcactions.html (http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/vcactions.html)
I've played 1644, WAB ECW, Pike and Shotte and some of the older rule sets though I have yet to try out The Kingdom is Ours available from Helion Books) which I have heard some very good things about.
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I started ECW about 2 years ago, not having played it for 30 years. I bought Simon Miller’s “For King and Parliament” as I already play his “To the Strongest” ancients set. These work well for me but they might not be everybody’s cup of tea. You can buy a digital copy from the BigRedBat website for £9.99.
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Forlorn Hope are very good, in my opinion ( my favourite set), and I’d highly recommend them. Even if you don’t like the rules the appendices and notes will be really useful to you as you get started.
As for other sets, each to their own but, personally, I found “The Kingdom is Ours” (mentioned above) to be one of the most woeful and disappointing ECW rule sets released in years. But that’s my opinion and it doesn’t mean I’m right... they may work for you so don’t be afraid to try them (and as I keep saying... “it’d be boring if we were all the same”!). One of the joys of our hobby is we can all do things differently.
Above all, have fun and welcome to what, I think, is the best wargames period out there!
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Our group really likes For King and Parliament.
For most of the rulesets basing is by element, so if you want to base singular you will probably want to get some movement trays to make moving units much easier. But I would suggest looking at multi-basing figures it gives you a lot more options around how a unit looks - and you tend to need slightly fewer figures for a unit.
Pikemans Lament is aimed at a smaller scale game than the others - and will give a fun quick small game. It is built on the Lion Rampant rules - but with some improvements in activation (IIRC there are now so many sets based on LR that I’m struggling to recall the details).
I’ve read through The Kingdom is Ours and it did nothing much for me. Likewise Pike and Shotte while a lovely book with lots of inspiration (not just for ECW) I’m not that sure about the rules - despite being a big fan of Hail Caesar back in the day.
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I am sure there are nearer clubs to you, but St. Helens Spartans is worth a mention, they put on the Phalanx wargame show.
Link
https://spartans.org.uk/
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There are a lot of rules about. Many use multiple based figures, but not all use the same sized stands. If you want singly based figures (which also means you could use them for skirmish games) I would suggest single basing and carry on painting until you find a rules set that suits you. Firms like Warbases make movement trays and sabot bases in a variety of sizes.
That just leaves the difficult question of rules sets. Do you have an opponent in mind? If so, what do they use? If not, check out local clubs.
There is a set of rules from Peter Pig, "Regiment of Foote", that are quite good. Aimed at 15mm players, but can be used in other scales.
Also there is an East European set called "By Fire and Sword", aimed at the late 17th century, but they plan to bring out an ECW version in the autumn.
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Also, if you don't have a planned opponent you may have to recruit both forces
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If you are on Facebook, there is a group there called "17th century Wargaming". Could be worth joining and asking the same question.
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I’m enjoying The Pikeman’s Lament. They’re easy to understand and master, provide a good game, can be scaled up or down to accommodate just a handful of units or quite sizeable forces, don’t involve loads of tables, stats, and mathematical calculations when it comes to inflicting casualties, and they give a good flavour of the period. Purists seem to regard the rules as too abstract, which is probably why I like them. They provide a very enjoyable game of soldiers, without getting bogged down in a lot of worthy but tedious ‘correct’ period detail. Depends whether you’re after a game that’s fast and fun to play with all the superficial trappings of the ECW, or a painstakingly accurate historical simulation of mid C17th warfare. Which is possibly less fun. I can’t say to be honest, because I haven’t tried any of the other sets mentioned in this thread so far. But donkeys years ago, I used to regularly play ECW in both 25mm (as it then was) and 15mm, with George Gush’s WRG renaissance rules. I greatly prefer the simple joie de vivre of The Pikeman’s Lament.
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I endorse Captain Blood's post. Pikeman's Lament gives a good game and you can start off with a few dozen figures.
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Many thanks for the helpful posts.
I've now got what I fear could be a lengthy question about uniform but I fear that could be for another post...
Ta
Marsh
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Many thanks for the helpful posts.
I've now got what I fear could be a lengthy question about uniform but I fear that could be for another post...
Ta
Marsh
There's a couple of nice little reference pdf's available for free on the Baccus site which might help you get started:
https://www.baccus6mm.com/PaintingGuides/ECW/ (https://www.baccus6mm.com/PaintingGuides/ECW/)
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A bit late to the party, but my (17th C) re-enactment group mates & I enjoy Donnybrook - although that's more skirmish to small game size (say 4-8 units, of 3/6/9 cavalry or 4/8/12 infantry depending on troop quality). It has scope for characters too, so if you want a preacher present, he comes with a bonus etc
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Be wary of a number of coat colours lists - many replicate the same errors. The Baccus pdfs aren't too bad.
Might I suggest my own coat colours articles (which have references)? There's five posts looking at:-
Parliamentarian coat colours
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-1-parliamentarian.html (https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-1-parliamentarian.html)
Royalist
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-2-royalist-regiments.html (https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-2-royalist-regiments.html)
Scots
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-3-scots.html (https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-3-scots.html)
New Model Army, Parliamentarian and Royalist cavalry and dragoons
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-4-others-nma-dragoons.html (https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-4-others-nma-dragoons.html)
The Trained Bands
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/the-trained-bands.html (https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/the-trained-bands.html)
As for possible colour palette
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2018/06/what-colours-to-use.html (https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2018/06/what-colours-to-use.html)
and translated into Cd'A and Foundry
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2019/11/what-colours-to-use-part-2-paint.html (https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2019/11/what-colours-to-use-part-2-paint.html)
Hopefully that'll give you a start
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Radar's articles are great; the whole blog is excellent reading for ECW war gamers.
As CB and VF stated Pikeman's Lament is very enjoyable and sounds like it is the "size" of game you are looking for. Besides PL I have played a number of different systems in the last few years including Pike and Shotte, Victory Without Quarter, Warr Without An Enemie, Carnage and Glory II and yesterday a large 'skirmish' using West End Games Star Wars Miniatures Battles- weird but true :o. So ... perhaps you shouldn't take my advice too seriously then... :-I
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yesterday a large 'skirmish' using West End Games Star Wars Miniatures Battles
Sorry to go OT- please feel free to PM me with the answer, but did West End Games used to be called Static Games? I ask as I had a dear friend who used to work at Static before he (very) sadly died.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Codsticker