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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: 3 fingers on September 06, 2020, 08:47:59 AM
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Am I the only one didn’t know about the remake of dune ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mAR2KhjZFU8
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There most certainly is another remake of Dune, but it is not this trailer, which is about the 1984 by David Lynch. The one you mean is made by Denis Villeneuve and unfortunately I could not find a trailer yet.
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This is the only thing I've seen as yet, not sure a full trailer has been released so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EI-UrAweXE
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The trailer for the new ones is released on the 9th (odd birthday present but I'll take it, cheers Denis.)
If anyone can make dune interesting it's Villeneuve, but I think the age old problem of dune being kind of dull might curse this movie too.
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Just curious, what did you chaps think of the first film from the 80s? (I haven't seen it.)
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It is a rare occurrence in our house. My wife, not having read the books, thought it a good film.
For once I had read the books. I was disappointed with the film.
Several chapters of GRADUALLY persuading the Fremen that he was the chosen one,
reduced to the level of, 'I'm the Chosen one'...'OK'.
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Just curious, what did you chaps think of the first film from the 80s? (I haven't seen it.)
It’s legendary. Stylish. Mysterious. Exotic. Sublime film making.
Back in the day I used to watch the Shield Fighting scene over and over on VHS.
‘The Bene Gesserit Witch Must Leave’
So good.
Is entirely possible you had to be there, but it’s a *foundational* movie.
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Just curious, what did you chaps think of the first film from the 80s? (I haven't seen it.)
It's about as good as a film based on dune could have been at the time. Honestly I think it's about as faithful to the book as it could have afforded to be because a faithful scene for scene dune movie would give Horlicks a run for their money in the "putting people to sleep" department.
It's biggest issue is just the weird things it had to do to try and get across alot of the ham fisted "political" stuff and janky dialouge from the book into the movie without having everyone twiddle their moustaches all the time, So you have the strange voiceovers and peepshow-Esq internal monologue that are strange out of the gate.
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Interesting. I may have to watch it one of these days!
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Other posters have summarised admirably, but I'd say the Lynch version is not well-liked by hardcore Dune aficionados.
As also said though, it's probably as good as it could be at the time.
I will say I like a lot of the design work in the Lynch version, they did a lot to make it very different to other SF of the period - which it had to be, really.
The world building in the novels is excellent, the pacing and such, not so much.
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It’s legendary. Stylish. Mysterious. Exotic. Sublime film making.
Back in the day I used to watch the Shield Fighting scene over and over on VHS.
‘The Bene Gesserit Witch Must Leave’
So good.
Is entirely possible you had to be there, but it’s a *foundational* movie.
What this guy said! The battle scenes...... they are the stuff that makes people into wargamers; especially the Harkonnen attack on House Atreides on Arrakis.
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Agreed that it is worth a watch. It is weird, but that is what you get from Lynch as a director. It is like Twin Peaks in that respect. Either you love the artistic license and vision, or you just seem to suffer through it to complain about how it wasted your time later on.
Either way, the visuals are amazing. I mean, if you haven't seen the movie and I show you this picture, and your brain doesn't immediately say "WHAT IS GOING ON THERE!? I gotta see that :o" then I'm not sure you are human.
(https://25yearslatersite.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/dune-cat-milking-700x298.jpg)
By the way, this scene is still a running joke between me and my son. If for no other reason I love the movie for giving us a bonding moment.
More on-topic, I'm pretty excited to see the remake/reinterpretation. Despite the political stuff, the Dune story has all the makings of a good sci-fi film. It would have been something to see the Jodorowsky version brought to life. Seeing his collaborations with Moebius for stories like the Incal series make me think he might have done a much better (and more over the top) version.
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Well it's true then, I must be human. :D The presence of the cat alone is enough to make we want to...learn more...
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https://youtu.be/n9xhJrPXop4
Goose bumps all over. The imagery, the atmosphere, Pink Floyd's Eclipse...wow.
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I quite enjoyed the lynch film, in all its weirdness. Certainly I enjoyed it more than the book, which I haven't read since before I watch that movie.
I like the look of this one a lot!
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https://youtu.be/n9xhJrPXop4
Goose bumps all over. The imagery, the atmosphere, Pink Floyd's Eclipse...wow.
Dang. I was excited before. Now, I can't wait!
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OK, I'm not sure if I could love DV much more than I already do, and I was feeling very excited about Dune.... until I just watched the trailer. Why? I really can't say, it's not like anything looked wrong in the trailer or anything
. Perhaps Nic is right and the ponderousness of Dune minus the Lynch touch of the earlier film might make for a perfectly executed but ultimately boring film with a couple of epic battles popped in there. Hmmmmmmm.
I have a friend who is certain Dune 2020 is going to be awful (he thought the same about Blade Runner 2049 too coincidentally) due to his massive fondess for the Lynch film, think he may have influenced me more than I thought. By Sting's Eagle Scot Strap!
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. Perhaps Nic is right and the ponderousness of Dune minus the Lynch touch of the earlier film might make for a perfectly executed but ultimately boring film with a couple of epic battles popped in there. Hmmmmmmm.
It's been a long time so I might be misremembering, but that's how I felt about the 2000 miniseries. Yeah it was more faithful to the books, but it was a 6 hour slog.
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Never loved the Lynch version, it always felt somehow unfinished to me. This one looks better in some ways, although, oh dear - Jason Momoa and Oscar Isaac... Might be a bit hammy... Also the obligatory shot of the legions of evil ranked up by their landing ships... Have seen it soooo many times now. I hope they don’t give in to too many space opera stock shots like that. Feels ever so derivative.
I thought the production / wardrobe design of the Lynch movie got both the Fremen and the Sardaukar wrong compared to what’s described in the novels. Be interesting to see if they do better this time round.
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but I'd say the Lynch version is not well-liked by hardcore Dune aficionados.
Its very much like the Arnie/Milius Conan movie in that the Lynch movie is *so* stylish that unless you could somehow match that quality of vision *whatever* you make is going to come off as a poor imitation.
So if you want make a Dune movie or a Conan movie... or I think the same of King Arthur and Excalibur (possibly these are all just films I saw at a certain age :-) ) you would not only have to say what you want to say with the movie (more shields! highlighting whatever it was *you* liked in the books! Whatever!) you would also need to make movies more *stylish* than Lynch Dune, Milius Conan or Boorman Excalibur which... you can’t *set out* to make things more stylish than those movies. It’s like telling someone you need an Ennio Morricone score, but better.
It can’t be done. Not to order.
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This one looks better in some ways
But does it have
https://youtu.be/tDbpmyuY-D8
And if not *what good is it?* :-)
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Ah yes, it had that lol
Definite echoes of ‘Hurry boy, it’s waiting there for you’...
After the Lord of the Rings trilogy, I was desperate for Peter Jackson to acquire the rights to make a Dune trilogy.
After the Hobbit trilogy, I was quite glad he didn’t.
Think Weta would have done an awesome job on the outfits and gear though.
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Maybe I missed it somewhere, but who is playing Feyd-Rautha? I saw nothing of him in the trailers. Rabban seems to take a prominent role in the trailers, but no Barron (that I caught) and no Feyd. I need me some flying fat man!
All things considered, I think they did an ok job of casting with the modern group of action actors. The only real 1:1 swap I see in the whole group is Josh Brolin/Patrick Stewart. I can really get behind that casting. The only cast members I'd rather not see are Momoa and Zendaya. Not a fan of either of them in films I've seen. Maybe I'll get lucky and they will have very little screen time lol
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I'm a hard core Dune fan since the '70s.
Can I really be the only one here who thinks the Lynch adaptation was an utter abomination, while the 2000 SciFi adaptation was inspired and sublime?
I will admit that the special effects in tne new version's trailer are incredible, as is to be expected with the advances in the state of the art, but the conceptual art is lacking. They are overdoing the CGI effects to compensate for lack of artistic vision.
And finally, just to make myself even less popular for this post - I do like the Pink Floyd song, but this rendition utterly sucked as a backdrop to the trailer.
This movie will technically succeed at the box office, and will have some good elements, but I am skeptical that it will be better than the SciFi miniseries.
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Maybe I missed it somewhere, but who is playing Feyd-Rautha? I saw nothing of him in the trailers. Rabban seems to take a prominent role in the trailers, but no Barron (that I caught) and no Feyd. I need me some flying fat man!
The Baron is definitely in there, he's being played by Stellan Skarsgård. You can see him at one point in a bath, but he's definitely not central to the current trailer.
The IMDB Full Cast & Crew (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1160419/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast) is currently incomplete, however does not list Feyd-Rautha. There was a rumour certulating that Tye Sheridan would take the role, but that's been dismissed as false. I half wonder if Feyd won't be present in this portrayal, instead placing more emphasis on Glossu 'Beast' Rabban. This is purely speculation on my behalf, but the position could be supported by him having a relatively central part in the new trailer.
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I just saw the new trailer... looked good to me. Not perfect but pretty good with some real potential. Maybe it is my prejudices at play but it did seem to have a bit of angsty millennial vibe going on with Paul. Maybe it was the music?
I liked the movie but preferred the tv miniseries as more true to the book. I only ever read the first book but I liked it well enough. Just not enough to read the rest of the series.
BR 2049 was ok, which surprised me as I expected to hate it. But it was only ok, not the timeless classic that the original tears in rain movie was.
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cor. That looks a bit good
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I really live the David Lynch film, but the SyFy miniseries was closer to the books.
Denis Villeneuve is an excellent director, and with the Arrival amd Bladerunner 2049 hes shown he can do intelligent sci fi. I thought the new Bladerunner was going to be awful and was pleasantly surprised, so I'm confident he can do something interesting with Dune.
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I thing it looks great.
One minor thing that nags me though is that Paul says in the beginning of the trailer that a Crusade is comming. He really should have said a Jihad is comming. But in todays world that might be to much for Hollywood hobnobs to stomach.
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Maybe it is my prejudices at play but it did seem to have a bit of angsty millennial vibe going on with Paul.
It’s Timothée Chalamet... Tinseltown’s go-to angsty millennial du jour. So the vibe is not too surprising :)
One minor thing that nags me though is that Paul says in the beginning of the trailer that a Crusade is comming. He really should have said a Jihad is comming. But in todays world that might be to much for Hollywood hobnobs to stomach.
Yes, I noticed that too. The Fremen’s jihad was clearly modelled on the Islamic idea of holy war in Herbert’s novels. But I guess with all that has transpired in the real world over the last 25 years, that would be too close to the bone. Crusade is an unfortunate choice of word though, given that context ::)
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I need to check out the SyFy series. It seems like it got good reviews.
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I need to check out the SyFy series. It seems like it got good reviews.
You can find it all on YouTube:
https://youtu.be/dZfX8FGlVMc
https://youtu.be/iRx-BVi0fls
Children of Dune is there too I believe (the series is called Children of Dune but is a combination of Messiah and Children IIRC)
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I adored the original Dune film. The series was interesting and managed to get a bit of the original feel as well.
Looking at the trailer and having read a bit of background to the new film, I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out :) .
There are some extremely good cast members and it would seem that the film is a two-parter... the first part being upto Paul leading the revolt and if that film is successful, then the rest of the story, up to the defeat of the Emperor and Paul's acention into near god-hood.
... and Rabban looks the freaking business :) .
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Drax versus Khal Drogo....what’s not to like
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There are some extremely good cast members and it would seem that the film is a two-parter... the first part being upto Paul leading the revolt and if that film is successful, then the rest of the story, up to the defeat of the Emperor and Paul's acention into near god-hood.
That's interesting.
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I like the look they have given to the Harkonnen
Big names all around in that film. Really looking forward to it.
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I think the Sardaukar need cool hats in the new movie... like these! One of my favorite bits of the TV series.
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I'm a hard core Dune fan since the '70s.
Can I really be the only one here who thinks the Lynch adaptation was an utter abomination
I hated the Lynch film with a passion, because I loved the book. I've since calmed down a bit, I just don't think it had very much to do with Dune the book other than using the same characters and background. (If someone watched only the movie and was asked questions about Dune, spice, the Sardaukar, the Fremen, shields etc, then pretty much everything they answered would be different from the books.)
But then pretty much no movie of a book, rather than a novella, is faithful. And if the book has lots of interior monologue, then even attempting is futile.
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Admittedly, it has been a while since I've read the book, and not all that long since I've watched the movie, but to me they are clearly related. Unlike a movie like the Natalie Portman Annihilation film, which bore very little resemblance to the book from the Southern Reach Trilogy, I don't think the Lynch movie is that far off once you make some allowances for interpretation and the need to make some of the nuanced political intrigue interesting enough to watch. Sure, it skips some things and glosses over some bits, but this is the way of movie adaptations of books. For instance, has anyone seen Tom Bombadil in the Lord of the Rings movie? No, because those giant works just have to cut something out and Peter Jackson's total trilogy, extended run time is 686 minutes. I love those books (the movies are ok) and that is tough to sit through.
Lynch's dune was 2 hours and 17 minutes for a 412 page book. Peter Jackson filmed 3 hours and 43 minutes for the Two Towers, which was 415 pages. Just doing the math here, but that is just going to leave a pretty high level view of the moving parts of the book. Probably could have cut out a few draggy minutes here and there when Paul is having his waking dreams, but what would you add back in on a 2-ish hour movie?
I guess I would be interested in hearing someone expound more about where the Lynch movie was wrong, and where there are opportunities to "set the record straight" in the new film?
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I guess I would be interested in hearing someone expound more about where the Lynch movie was wrong, and where there are opportunities to "set the record straight" in the new film?
Just personal opinions, and it is a while since I saw the movie, but
-- the Fremen are just some tribesmen lying around. Not a power about to be harnessed to conquer the galaxy. They are as central to the book as Paul, if not more so. He can only succeed thanks to them.
-- the Butlerian Jihad never happened. In the battlescene at the end when the Emperor's forces started firing away from gunports, I cringed.
-- the pace is wrong. Dune politics is a slow moving affair, where plans take decades and centuries to hatch.
-- Paul is not a tragic figure, but a one-dimensional hero.
I don't think any of those things can be fixed in a SF movie. Movies need central characters and can't sustain a plot over years and years. SF doesn't deal in swords and sandals, and likes its heroes pretty simple.
The best Dune movie ever made was Lawrence of Arabia.
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Lynch's dune was 2 hours and 17 minutes for a 412 page book. Peter Jackson filmed 3 hours and 43 minutes for the Two Towers, which was 415 pages. Just doing the math here, but that is just going to leave a pretty high level view of the moving parts of the book. Probably could have cut out a few draggy minutes here and there when Paul is having his waking dreams, but what would you add back in on a 2-ish hour movie?
You talk about the Lynch Cut for Cinema. Later he showed a 177 Minute Cut for Television. This was a brilliant cut for fans.
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I guess I would be interested in hearing someone expound more about where the Lynch movie was wrong, and where there are opportunities to "set the record straight" in the new film?
You‘d be hard pressed to find a better expressed critical analysis of where the Lynch movie goes wrong than this one...
https://www.tor.com/2017/04/18/david-lynchs-dune-is-what-you-get-when-you-build-a-science-fictional-world-with-no-interest-in-science-fiction/
...much of which I agree with.
Dune, the novel, has a particular mood - it’s decidedly weird and slightly discombobulating in a number of ways. The desert is the lead character. The Fremen are mysterious, tribal, living on the edge. The great houses are positively feudal in organisation, and C19th in uniform. The Sardaukar are a uniformed Imperial Guard - not sci-fi stormtroopers in hazmat suits. It’s full of so many interesting and original ideas from a world building point of view, and yes, it’s science fiction of a kind dressed up with some interesting sci fi creations around the edges. But the central tale is fundamentally about a very simple human story. The Lynch movie gets so much of this wrong. He basically made it much more of an out and out sci-fi movie than it needed to be, especially in terms of the production design, and lost the mood / soul of the original novel as a result. The thing that drew people to the novel in the first place.
Just my opinion on it :)
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I like both :D
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I like both :D
I did too. I can appreciate the movie for what it was. The series was much closer to the story. Problem is much like Enders Game there is so much that you are not able to put onto film.
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I love Lynch's Dune with the heat of the Arrakian desert!
That being said, there is NO WAY this movie is a success, and I would wager money that the second half NEVER gets made.
I hope the movie proves me wrong!
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I liked the first book enough to read all of them, hoping that one of the sequels or prequels would be as good as the original. None were but they were still worth reading.
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Lynch's movie drove me nuts. It was astounding in many ways but also soooooooooo weird. Just off the wall. I couldn't decide if I liked the whispering or not but it was a good way to represent interior monologue.
The bene gesserit were great. The Fremen were just strange and spaced-out which was disappointing. There was a lot of overacting by stage actors.
The visuals were grand and I loved them, especially the dark weather in the dessert, looking at the capital city from outside. Really set the tone beautifully.
The Guild visit scene was astoundingly well done. Really, really good job. I could watch that 1,000 times and never be bored. Same with the shield fights.
And the weirding modules? Heart plugs? WTH?
The Baron was fantastic, Feyd (Sting) was strange with that hair but really took the stage, but Rabban was just a silly fat guy who could barely move in that outfit.
The pace of the movie was inconsistent, as well. Sometimes full of grandeur, sometimes rushed, editing should have been better.
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The mini-series was also love/frustrating. They told A LOT of story which was wonderful and captivating. William Hurt, Alex Newman, and Julie Cox, and especially Saskia Reeves were the wrong actors. The Paul's twins were great, especially Jessica Brooks.
The stages and special effects were inferior to Lynch's, more busyness and less grandeur, which was what was so special about Lynch's.
The Spice/Stych "orgies" were just silly and cheap looking. There was a lot of silly stage acting nonsense just to provide a sense of movement and atmosphere that could have been much improved.
One thing obviously missing was any sort of tan, sweat, or weather-beaten skin on the Fremen.
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Both had some ridiculous looking costumes but that might just be my American eyes not appreciating the European influence.
All this being said, I watched them again and again and again, I found I could not get enough.
I can't wait for the new version. I hope that Peter Jackson can get it perfect. He did such a fine job with King Kong and Lord of the Rings.
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Appreciate the thoughts all the way around. Mostly I took away that maybe the subject matter of a book like Dune (and Ender's Game) probably struggles to display well for mass audiences. You could probably make a great movie that would please the Dune faithful, but then you lose the rest. You make a movie to please the rest, and the faithful grumble.
I'm glad that Snitchy brought up Ender's game, because that was very similar to me. The story isn't about building a fleet to go kill aliens. That is far too simplistic, but that is where we end up in the movie. I liked the movie, and I liked the books, but probably for very different reasons.
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I can't wait for the new version. I hope that Peter Jackson can get it perfect. He did such a fine job with King Kong and Lord of the Rings.
You mean Dennis Villeneuve? ;)
I think Villeneuve is a way better choice than Peter Jackson. I think less over the top drama, more true to the books and ideas behind the books than Jackson would be. At least, after the Hobbit trilogy I am VERY glad Jackson isn't doing Dune.
And is it known whether it is only 2 movies for book 1, several movies for several books or 2 movies and tv/streaming series?
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Oh, not Peter Jackson? Whoops, my mistake.
Arrival, Blade Runner, and Sicario... those were nice movies but a little off, somehow. I watched them several times to make sure I didn't miss anything but they were... weird. I bet this Dune will also be like that. Sigh... another cool flick that's just... strange.
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No New Zealander can watch Ender's Game without cringing about Ben Kingsley's accent. :-[ It floats between Kiwi, Australian, South African and truly bizarre. Plus it has not even the slightest hint of Polynesian -- guys with full face tattoos tend not to be very white sounding.
I'm not worried about cultural appropriation, but there's a couple of big name actual Maori in Hollywood who could have fitted in beautifully.
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Looks like it’s delayed until October 2021
https://collider.com/dune-movie-new-release-date-delayed-2021/
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Looks like it’s delayed until October 2021
https://collider.com/dune-movie-new-release-date-delayed-2021/
:'(