Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Sir_Theo on September 16, 2020, 03:55:15 PM
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Teased the other day, Mantic have released a few more details about their upcoming Naval game.
"Mantic Games is pleased to announce that this November it will be releasing Armada, a new naval wargame set in the world of its best-selling fantasy battle game, Kings of War. The launch period will feature a two-player starter set, which is perfect for getting into the game, four factions of highly detailed resin boats, a rulebook and a full range of accessories."
"Based on the best-selling Black Seas ruleset by Warlord Games, Armada takes historical naval battles and gives them an epic fantasy twist. From the initial launch, players can take to the seas of Pannithor as one of four exciting factions – starting with the brave Basileans and marauding orcs, then following shortly after with the stoic dwarfs and wicked Empire of Dust."
https://youtu.be/fkQ-Tk2cmUc
I was a huge Man O War fan and I enjoy the Kings of War universe so im looking forward to this. Im also expecting some sort of campaign crossover with Kings of War and Vanguard!
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That's great that they based it on the Warlord games historical game. Great to see building on top of something good as opposed to rolling the dice with yet another game system.
I'm tempted to play, always liked the naval aspect, so we'll see if I have room in the storage closet for some more figures :D
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Wonder how it will scale with all of my Uncharted Seas minis
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I'm pretty excited about this. It's supposed to be in scale with Black Seas, but more "heroic" scale, so ships from Black Seas (1/700) or Oak & Iron (1/600) should look fine. I have ships from both games, and they look good next to each other especially given that ship sizes and nomenclature wasn't terribly standardized back then.
I think the old Spartan Games Uncharted Seas was also about the same scale (1/600, right?)
Dreadfleet also looks good alongside Black Seas and Oak & Iron, so I see making custom rules for those cool looking ships from that otherwise very forgettable game...
But Man o War ships were a bit smaller. I think Man o War didn't follow any standardized scale, but most look 1/1000 or smaller. In a pinch, lots of ships are weird enough looking that they would be fine to use (e.g., the oversized cannons on some ships make 'em look "bigger" even if they're still nominally of a smaller scale), but many will probably look a bit small alongside Mantic's Armada.
Can't wait to get my hands on this game!
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Ive got quite a lot of Man O War ships but I think ill keep them for use with Man o war for the reason you mention. The Mantic ones look good, and im particularly looking forward to the Empire of Dust ships.
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I thought id put some pictures up here ive got from various sources online
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The pre-order page is up - link (https://www.manticgames.com/games/armada/)
£74.99 for the two player starter set as well as various other deals.
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Not cheap, but I'm a sucker for this kinda game - I'm going all in.
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I've noticed a few online retailers offering discounts on the preorders, so worth shopping around maybe.
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Completely agree! But I'm also a sucker for my FLGS, and have the disposable income to shop locally.... In this day and age, I want to make sure my fav game store can keep the lights on!
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So Armada was delivered to me the other day. I've started to put together some of the ships, but I thought I'd share a pic of one of the Large Orc ships to give people an idea of the scale. This isn't one of the ships in the starter set, but a 'Smasher' which is slightly larger than the normal ones.
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I wish someone would do a “realistic” looking fantasy naval game in 1/700. I really don’t like the over-the-top impractical designs that every fantasy naval game so far produced has come out with.
How hard would it be to do so e fantasy-style xebecs for elves, or Korean turtle boats for dwarves? Some junky junks for Orcs? Instead, we always get this sort of cartoonish fantasy style.
SOME cartoony elements, OK. It’s fantasy, after all. But do the ships always have to look like bathtub playtime toys...?
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Ha! They are a little over the top. As much as I like Kings of War I do find the aesthetic a little cartoony for my tastes (it feels very Warcraft, all that boxy armour and fancy pauldrons) but I don't kind so much in a fantasy naval game, I like my historical games realistic and my fantasy games over the top.
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Ha! They are a little over the top. As much as I like Kings of War I do find the aesthetic a little cartoony for my tastes (it feels very Warcraft, all that boxy armour and fancy pauldrons) but I don't kind so much in a fantasy naval game, I like my historical games realistic and my fantasy games over the top.
What’s not to love about that though?
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Oh yeah, I think these models are great, can't wait to paint them.
A big thumbs up for the quality of the rest of the product too. Nice rulebook, lovely art on the tokens and card islands, nice paper mat. Definitely good value.
I also do enjoy how much effort Mantic have put into world building recently. I like how Pannithor is still big and generic enough that you can have your own niche in there, but it has all these big fantasy elements in the background specific to itself. Its starting to feel like it's finding ita feet away from the shadow of the Warhammer Old World.
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Well.... I hesitate to say it, but... here goes: when it looks stupid, not cool.
When it’s so toy-like it might as well be made out of brightly colored plastic and sold at your local Target or such like.
I realize that everyones’ esthetics differ on this point and that is fine. Horses for courses.
But does EVERY fantasy naval game have to follow the esthetic laid down by Man ‘O War — or even exaggerate it more?
Imagine something like this, only with balistas instead of cannon, shields hung over the sidework, maybe some really intricate carving on the poopdeck and a whopping great griffonhead figurehead.
That’s what I am on about.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/potbs/images/9/93/Arcadia_MC_Xebec_lvl_44.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130704095031)
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I wish someone would do a “realistic” looking fantasy naval game in 1/700. I really don’t like the over-the-top impractical designs that every fantasy naval game so far produced has come out with.
How hard would it be to do so e fantasy-style xebecs for elves, or Korean turtle boats for dwarves? Some junky junks for Orcs? Instead, we always get this sort of cartoonish fantasy style.
SOME cartoony elements, OK. It’s fantasy, after all. But do the ships always have to look like bathtub playtime toys...?
for me the tieing of direct real-world ethnic / geographical styling (and stereo-types thereby) to fantasy races is crass and, to a degree, dangerous.
there's too much of it been done already.
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The other thing is, miniatures need to have a “silhouette effect”. Plenty of gamers don’t get around to painting the models so they need to be easily discernible what’s what at arms length if they’re all grey. Especially at very small scales.
If these ships all looked like historical as with maybe some different shields slung over the sides it could be very hard to tell what is what.
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Well, the concept is “based on”, not “copies of”.
Different sail and hull patterns can definitely give you a silhouette effect. As for it being “crass”.... [points to all the Byzantine themes and imagery used in the Mantic world and politely ignores the old Warhammer world]
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The other thing is, miniatures need to have a “silhouette effect”. Plenty of gamers don’t get around to painting the models so they need to be easily discernible what’s what at arms length if they’re all grey. Especially at very small scales.
If these ships all looked like historical as with maybe some different shields slung over the sides it could be very hard to tell what is what.
I'm quite sure most historical naval gamers do without it. A French ship of the same period would look quite like an American or British ship.
I'm quite sure that Orc ship still looks like this, though:
(NSFW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZglX4P-tpcA
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I'm okay with a bit of Fantasy exaggeration, because ....well, that's what Fantasy is all about, isn't it. Take the thing, change one feature a bit, exaggerate everything a bit. (crassy simplified of course)
What I find a bit boring is overly exaggerating thing and drawing them too much into a cell-shaded cartoon world. (ie world of warcraft). I'm okay with cartoony things, but that doesn't mean they have to be all huge and feature large surfaces which are just weird looking for the intended scale. In that regard I find Dead Earth Games' The Drowned and the Damned ship (kickstarter running, have a look, plugplug*) a bit nicer to look at.
Here's a wild theory: Maybe many fantasy figures nowadays are sold based on render pictures, so they automatically tend to make them 'too fancy looking', not taking into consideration that it's the paintjob that makes a figure's look in the end. If manufacturers advertised their models with pictures of ....well, actual models rather than simulated renditions thereof maybe designs could 'get away' with looking a bit more sombre in design. Of course the fact that anything Fantasy is oversized and because level of detail often is mistaken for level of clutter across the model is also a thing. But then I might bring up arguments people have brought up about Fantasy figure design for the past 40 years. :D
I'd be interested to paint some of these Mantic ships, to see what they're like 'in the flesh'. I'm sure i'd like them alright, but based on the designs alone I don't feel too inclined to buy into this game (army lists, points costs, etc. aside).
*) I'm not affiliated with Dead Earth Games apart from the fact that I painted a handful of figures for them in the past.
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Well, the concept is “based on”, not “copies of”.
Different sail and hull patterns can definitely give you a silhouette effect. As for it being “crass”.... [points to all the Byzantine themes and imagery used in the Mantic world and politely ignores the old Warhammer world]
which makes no difference imo (your comment).
'byzantine themes / imagery' or similar (which many would miss) are a long way from tying fantasy races to direct real-world counterparts.
But, yes, even in those terms, Mantic certainly remain culpable, as do most fantasy miniature makers deriving part, if not all, of their inspiration from the Tolkien-esque (or similar) well-pool.
I'm not sure what the 'answer' is tbh (as it would be to a question most don't feel it's necessary to ask, unfortunately). But less 'fantastical' and more 'historical' isnt' it.
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I wish someone would do a “realistic” looking fantasy naval game in 1/700. I really don’t like the over-the-top impractical designs that every fantasy naval game so far produced has come out with.
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You might look into picking up the rules for Kings of War Armada, and the ships from Black Seas or Oak & Iron? Unfortunately, though, I understand the cards needed to play the game come with the models... so unless you've got a buddy who has the Armada models, it might be hard to play!
(I love these models, and can't wait to get my hands on some - my order is somewhere out there!)
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I own Black Seas. It’s black powder historical, however. What I’d like to see is Black Seas quality fantasy ships.
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I've played a few games of Black Seas now and its worked pretty well (even over Zoom). Has anyone played Armada who can summarize the differences between the two rule sets (if any?).
I do like the fantasy aesthetic Mantic have come up with for their ships (unlike some - but 'seahorses for courses'). The picture Macunaima posted is very nice though, are these commercially available and if so in what scale?