Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: OB on September 29, 2020, 06:47:07 PM
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I’m currently enjoying Jonathan Phillips excellent biography The Sultan Saladin. The Crusades is a long- term interest for me and the book has inspired a new project.
In turn this has inspired a series of blog posts on the battles of the period and how the combatants fought.
The first on what we should be looking for in games of Crusading warfare is on my blog.
If it’s of interest here is the link:
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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How about a subsection, You Do Not Know The East? :)
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:) it has a certain ring to it.
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I see there is a 'supplement' for Lion Rampant. It covers the Crusades.
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Interesting post OB, what rules do you intend to use? Are there any you’d recommend or warn against?
As someone with and old English/Norse heritage (with a military themed family name) and a Middle Eastern wife and family in law (their tribal/family name is where we get the word fierce) I probably have links to both sides and have always been interested in the crusades but have never gamed it (unless you count Lego and airfix chaps when little). Just what every war gamer needs - another period of interest :D
Keep up the good work I’m going to peruse your blog.
Stay safe and well,
BALM
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Quite some time ago there was a Crusades Rule set by Dr Brendan Moyles called Shattered Lances. It proved popular and there was a supporting website. Lots of good things about Shattered Lances in terms of real period flavour. It was particularly good on the Ghulam wave attack. The website is now gone but the rules are still available from Outpost Wargames Services.
I also very much enjoyed Ager Sanguinis by James Roache, again lots of flavour and some good mechanisms. Ager Sanguinis is a Piquet influenced game. I've had some great games with it. James's plans for a second edition are currently on hold.
Currently I'm very interested in adapting Never Mind The Billhooks into a Crusades rule set. So much so that I'm having a trial run this week. The post on my blog was really to ensure the essentials of battle in Outremer stuck in my mind. I hoped it might prove interesting to others too. If my test game proves successful I'll write it up on my blog with a link here. So far, it's looking promising.
Yes, I saw the Lion Rampant Crusades book is now available. I'm hoping someone will review it.
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Nice blog post, I'll look forward to future entries.
The Crusades are a fascinating subject, and while I've never gamed any of it as an adult I remember one of my first ever forays into wargaming came when I got a copy of the 'Outremer' board game as a teenager.
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Thanks Sir Theo, there should be another Crusades post up tomorrow.
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Part 2 of my series on Crusading Warfare is now up on my blog. It is mainly about archery and its tactical importance to both Franks and Muslims. If it’s of interest here is the link.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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Nice article. 8)
Salah ad-Din Yusef ibn Ayyub would be proud :)
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Thanks Atheling. He was an interesting lad.
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Are these Legio Heroica 15s?
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Top pic, yes. Bottom pic Outpost Wargame Service. They mix well enough.
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Oh, I hadn’t heard of them - excellent!
Thank you ;D
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You are welcome :) If you are looking for figures compatible with the Legio Heroica range I've found Museum Miniatures infantry work quite well too.
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Excellent stuff mate!!
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Thanks very much Rafa. More to come soon.
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Definitely going to follow your blog as I've long been a big fan of the Crusades especially the first one and the early kingdom of Jerusalem. I'm about ready to start painting 18mm Blue Moon range for this fascinating era. As for rules, I'm leaning toward using To the Strongest.
Keep up your good work!
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Thanks MGH.
My experimental game is now underway. I'll post an AAR on my blog after the post mortem. Here's a couple of pics of the table.
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The first part of my experimental Crusades game is now up on my blog. It features King Guy of Jerusalem, Gerard Master of the Temple and Conrad Marquis of Montferrat and their retinues being intercepted on the march by the Ayyubids.
The battle is fictional but nearly happened when the Crusaders headed out for Acre after the fall of Jerusalem.
The point of the game was to see if I could successfully adapt an out of period rule set to one suiting Crusading warfare. So far, it seems to be working nicely enough.
Part two should follow later this week. If it’s of interest please click the link.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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It might just be at my end OB but your blog link isn't working- I've been having 'lulls' in service all day so as I say, it might just me in my local area.
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Thanks for letting me know. I've just tried it and it seems fine now.
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Thanks for letting me know. I've just tried it and it seems fine now.
It took a few moments.... but it's getting through now. It's been like this all evening on a few different sites TBH o_o
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Part 2 of my experimental Crusades game is now on my blog. It has proved eventful. So far, I think it has captured the essentials of Crusader warfare well enough. Knights have delivered their irresistible charge and other knights have had their horses shot from under them.
If the game continues to please it will likely become my default set of rules for the period. If it sounds of interest here is the link:
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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Lovely work OB :-*
Seljuks look beautiful if given the right treatment in any scale- well, maybe not 2mm lol
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Thanks Atheling, they are Legio Heroica - big 15mm as it were. 2mm would be overmuch for me no doubt someones done it.
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Thanks Atheling, they are Legio Heroica - big 15mm as it were. 2mm would be overmuch for me no doubt someones done it.
According to the WSS podcast there were whisperings of a Siege/Fall of Constantinople game in 2mm that is supposed to be stunning. It must have been put back due to the current circumstances but it will be one to look out for on the show circuit later next year (one hopes). :)
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I'd like to see that.
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The last part of my experimental Crusades game is now up on my blog. I’m pleased with how it played out. The main features archery and the Frankish charge worked well.
Next time I want to try a Fatimid versus Crusader match up which will be a very different type of battle.
If it sounds of interest please click the link below.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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This is a really entertaining series OB. Apologies if I missed it, but what rules are you using?
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Good to hear Mark.
You didn't miss it, I haven't previously mentioned the rules I used.
The rules are my Crusades adaptation of Andy Callan's excellent "Never Mind the Billhooks". A sort of "Never Mind the Ghulams" if you like. I needed to add new troop types and new cards of course. It all seems to work very well so far.
I need to play more games with different opponents Byzantines, Fatimids and so on. I also want to try out the Military orders in melee. That didn't happen in this game.
Thus far it's looking good.
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Even more interesting! Now you have said it, I can see the NMTBH-ness of it.
I haven't had the opportunity to play it yet, but it looks good on paper and is getting excellent write ups - notably by Eric the Shed on here.
Good to see the engine works for other eras of medieval warfare - how many tweaks did you need to make? Presumably adjustments to light cavalry for the Turcoman horse etc?
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Lots of tweaks.
New Special event cards.
New troop types were Frankish crossbows (simple transfer from Billhooks Archers) ditto Frankish spears with Bill men. Knights are knights but Military Order knights are better.
Turcoman, brand new type move as light horse on both a Skirmish and a Leader Card. They do nip about as they should.
Ghulam light cavalry, medium armour can charge, evade and shoot.
All horse archers 6 shots only.
There's more too Bedouin, Byzantines and what not.
I'm still thinking about Naffatun - obviously a terror weapon -one unit only and risks to both user and target.
I should do a blog post on it and some suggested army lists.
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Definitely worthy of a blog post! I see the bolt ons are mainly for the Eastern forces, which makes sense. Nice idea for the Turcoman - two moves a turn (if lucky!) will make them nice and swift and I guess allows them to ride in, loose and retreat out of range.
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To do serious damage they can opt to remain in place and shoot twice but oh the damage those crossbow men can do to Turcoman light cavalry. You have to decide to take the chance or not.
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Question for you: where did you get your colorful Muslim banners?
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I've had them for ages MGH on an A4 sheet of paper. Strictly speaking the are not Ayyubid banners which should be yellow and then black. I couldn't say where they originated so can't point you there.
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My first two Byzantine units. They are from Outpost Wargames Services and are happily compatible with Legio Heroica which make up most of my Crusader armies. I also use some Museum Miniatures infantry figures. I'll do a post of side by side comparison pics shortly that might be of interest to those doing the period.
Anyhow, here are the Byzantines soon to be joined by the Latinikon, Pechenegs and Turkic Christians, Varangians and light troops.
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Gotta love a bit of Byzantine action :-*
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I've had these ones for over a decade. I gave them a new bases and touched up the paintwork. The rest of the army is in the post from Outpost. Except the Varangians, I'm using Legio Heroica Anglo Saxon mailed axe men for them. Hopefully the paint job will give them a nice uniform look.
I'm wondering about the basing for the Varangians. You need a bit a room for effective axe fighting so I'll probably go for 4 figures per base as opposed to my usual 6 for heavy infantry.
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I’ve made a good start on my Byzantine Army for the Crusades. I’m using figures from Legio Heroics and Outpost Wargames Services as they work well together. The first 4 units are done, another 8 to do.
I’ve updated my blog accordingly if you are interested in Byzantines here is the link.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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Your project is coming along very well. I always enjoy your blog entries- keep up the good work! :D
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Thanks Codsticker My next Crusades post will be on the Bedouin.
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I wrote a piece about the Bedouin in the Crusading period that might be of interest. There are some pics of Legio Heroica and Outpost Bedouin too.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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I just happen to be painting up Bedouin cavalry for the Crusades myself, love your paint jobs.
Also enjoy your blog, keep up the great work.
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Thanks very much MGH. My next blog post will be on the First Battle of Ramla. I was particularly interested in the performance of the Fatimid Black infantry.
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Thanks very much MGH. My next blog post will be on the First Battle of Ramla. I was particularly interested in the performance of the Fatimid Black infantry.
I look forward to that. :)
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Thanks Codsticker.
I'm currently reading Paul Brown's Mercenaries to Conquerors about the Normans. There is some very interesting stuff in their about Italian Javelin infantry fighting Norman cavalry. It complemented what I found in Frankish accounts of the Fatimid Black infantry.
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Some thoughts on the first battle of Ramla fought between the Crusaders and the Fatimids is now up on my blog. It’s an interesting encounter.
I was particularly struck by the role and armament of the Black infantry.
If it is of interest here is the link.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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I'm enjoying your blog and the pictures. It is very timely.
I just got the new Crusaders book for Lion Rampant and am making plans to use our 15mm Thistle & Rose figures to play through the campaign/scenarios in the book.
We've run some really fun big battles using Triumph! in the past couple of years and I think these smaller scenarios will be fun to do in these more modest gaming times. I also like the current trend to historical narrative and flexing games to meet the history instead of building the One rule set to rule them all.
Bill Hupp
T&R Miniatures
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Thanks Bill. Yes, I think the current trend in rule writing is the way to go too.
Congrat's on getting T&R figures back into production.
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Ive got the Byzantine light cavalry done and my first unit of light infantry archers. All from Outpost. Next it's the Legio Heroica Varangians.
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Your collection is really coming along quickly.
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Yeah, another half dozen units to go and it's done. I'm trying to finish off all of my big projects. Some of them have been around for decades.
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I have added a couple of Sudanese units to my Fatimid Army along with a unit of Armenian cavalry. The figures are from Legio Heroica and Outpost. There are also some command figures and a base of Naphtha throwers.
If it is of interest here is the link.
https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com
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Excellent! And I got that same exact black banner for my Muslims, :).
The Armenians are great too. My own Sudanese are like those in Heath's Armies of the Crusades, not the fancy guard units but just run of the mill units, no headgear, nothing fancy. Yours are more colorful though!
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Thanks MGH.
They used both of course and I really should get some of the ones you have too. I was pleased with how the Outpost ones came up. Outpost is a very cost effective option for Crusades gamers.