Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Karadek on October 21, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
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Hi, everyone. I'm looking at getting into a 25mm historicals game. Over time, I've bought a large number of Wargames Factory Romans and Celts, as well as a small band (about 50) of Scottish Highlanders. I realize the Highlanders are not exactly Roman-era, but they're primitive (no black powder), so I'll count them as Picts. I've always liked and bought the minis, but now it's time to do something with them.
What I really need are some recommendations as to the best rule set to go with it. Here are the key things I'm looking for:
1. Fun
2. Games under 2 hrs
3. Widely played/Easy to find opponents
4. Suitable for small actions as well as large; as I said, I don't have that many Highlanders
5. Well-written rules. Art is not essential.
I'd dearly love to hear your suggestions. I've been looking at Hail Caesar and Field of Glory so far. I'm definitely open to other suggestions as well.
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To the Strongest is excellent. Plays fast and is a good game which is pretty historical.
Field of Glory is a good set of rules but you'll be lucky to finish a game in 2 hours.
Sword & Spear is also good
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I'm a big fan of the Too Fat Lardies 'Infamy, Infamy' rules. Rich plays a game online which is a good intro, at the moment it's basically Romans vs 'Barbarians' but further guides are expected for the Punic Wars and points further East:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIxcVigJvgQ&ab_channel=toofatlardies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIxcVigJvgQ&ab_channel=toofatlardies)
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Good evening. I too love "To the Strongest" but you probably need about 150 figures per side. As well as Sword and Spear I would mention Gripping Beast's "Swordpoint".
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If you're prepared to base your figures up on "DBx standard" multiple figures bases (60mm wide for 25/8mm) then the "widely played" criteria would seem to put DBA and L'Art de la Guerre very much into the mix.
DBA is definately under 2 hours, ADLG is borderline if you go for it - both have ("had") active competition circuits, with ADLG having more 25mm events.
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I am also a fan of ADLG and DBA but the best advice I can give is to see what the local players like and go with the flow.
Around here ADLG is king and DBA has dropped off so I would not get a game in anyways. Your local players may like something different. You may find Hail Caesar is popular with your local area but it needs lot of figures so it didn't catch on here.
Saga is also worth looking at although the book isn't out yet for this period so I would give it a miss.
There are basically 3 ways you can base - singly, DB(x) standard as mentioned and a the square Warhammer ancients style. For some rulesets it matters ad some it doesn't so I would get that sorted first.
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Yep. Get the basing right and it all falls into place. For 25/28mm I have just adopted 1p coins for rankers and 2p for officers, musicians and standard bearers. I then use warbases sabot bases. As I would expect to provide both sides, I can then treat each sabot base as an 'element' for DBx style games like DBA, DBMM, Impetus, FoG or AdlG and group them on larger bases for Warhammer/Hail Caesar.
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Hi, I would second the use of Sabot bases, and Warbases* seem to offer the most versatile range. They will even produce "custom" bases if you ask them . Sabots may appear pricey but when you can be paying several hundred £/$s for your figures it is a small investment to pay to get versatility .
* Other sabot bases are available!
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Yes, find out what others are playing in your area.
That said, games that this could work for are:
1. Swordpoint
2. Sword and Spear
3. Wars of the Republic
4. SPQR
5. Broken Legions
6. Infamy, Infamy
7. Clash of Spears
DBA, Impetus and ADLG are typically geared to 15mm, so would need to find like minded/based players first.
That is my flawed thoughts on the matter.....
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If you mainly want to play mass battle game, then use 'DBx' style multibases. The figures can be used for skirmishes but you'll need to mark casualties or make change with single figures. On the other hand, if you mainly want to play skirmishes, single base and use sabots for mass battles, although you'll find sabots are never ideal when playing mass battle games.
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I’d also recommend to the strongest.
The grid speeds up play, the rules are not complicated and once you get the hang of them most games should take under 2 hours unless you are being very relaxed or trying something big, Another plus is base sizes are not that important so long as the units fit in the grid size you use which means there is flexibility to use armies based for other rule sets. Army lists are free and there is a very active tapa talk forum to support the rules and some free scenarios available for historic refights . Finally I’m the type of gamer who for years avoided competition games like the plague but I’ve been to the main TTS Chalgrove for a few years now and each time has 4 great games against friendly opponents.
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I’d also recommend to the strongest.
The grid speeds up play, the rules are not complicated and once you get the hang of them most games should take under 2 hours unless you are being very relaxed or trying something big, Another plus is base sizes are not that important so long as the units fit in the grid size you use which means there is flexibility to use armies based for other rule sets. Army lists are free and there is a very active tapa talk forum to support the rules and some free scenarios available for historic refights . Finally I’m the type of gamer who for years avoided competition games like the plague but I’ve been to the main TTS Chalgrove for a few years now and each time has 4 great games against friendly opponents.
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I would also heartily recommend "To The Strongest" (TTS), and that's not knocking any other set. Ancients and Medieval is my main historical interest and I found it quite galling never to find a set of rules that suited me. I have used TTS for everything from Hittite vs Sea Peoples through to 15th century Italy and it never fails to give a good game. Probably not for the purist competition gamer due to its activation mechanism but it works for me and all my mates. It is unashamedly aimed at "big battles" so if you base your figures individually using sabots you could also use the figures for one of the more "skirmish" based games such as Saga or Infamy.
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Big Battle ancients I use DBMM. Not the easiest set of rules to get your head around, but cracking games with a ton of incident and variety. I think one of the real strengths is that both players are engaged, so opposed dice rolls, genius.
And it handles historical match-ups really well. I have a few niggles, but generally speaking it's my go to set for big battles. I will leave criticisms of other sets like AdlG, Impetus, TTS, MeG and FoG to others.
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DBMM is great, but I found that the rules are sufficiently complex that you need to play them pretty regularly otherwise you forget vital bits of the rules. Given how many periods I play, I find it better to use simpler rules that I can pick up easily when I come back to a period.
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DBMM is great, but I found that the rules are sufficiently complex that you need to play them pretty regularly otherwise you forget vital bits of the rules. Given how many periods I play, I find it better to use simpler rules that I can pick up easily when I come back to a period.
Yep.. agreed. You probably need to play them monthly to make all the bits 'stick'. Still my favourite 'big battle' ancients rules. But I would struggle to remember some of the 'chrome' these days now I am not playing them regularly.
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Thanks for all the suggestions! Sadly, I haven't seen anyone playing Ancients at any of the local stores, so it's probably just going to be me and my friends. We're all about faster games right now, so it sounds like To The Strongest may be the best fit. I'll have to check out all of them, though.
Again, thanks a lot for all the suggestions!
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Karadek. I wholeheartedly recommend TTS but remember you need a gridded mat plus some game chits. I bought bespoke mats as ancients is my primary gaming period plus they are useable elsewhere, but I know other people use home-brew versions.
Army lists are available for free on the Bigredbat shop.
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Fistful of Lead has both small scale (5-11 models a side) as well as bigger battles (~8 men per unit, so ~40 men per side3, or bigger).
It is period agnostic, and will work well for almost anything.
Saga is another good small/medium scale game, and it has Age of Hanibal coming soon. Failing that, Age of Magic can be used without the mystical elements. There is also Aetius and Arthur for late Rome, which is already out.
Clash of Spears is Republican Roman centric. It is 'small' unit tactics, with units of about 4-10 models (~50ish will be plenty for a game). It has a decent mix of commander/fatigue mechanics.
DBA is decent, fast, and would fit your limited fig needs. However it is usually played at 15mm. I will note that the rules are very...particularly written. They are not the cleanest designed rules to be sure. However, games run only 30-60 minutes a pop and are fun.
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I've played DBA and didn't particularly care for it. This may be because the guy that showed it to me didn't do too good a job of explaining things and subsequently massacred me both times.
I'd be open to trying it again, but it's not one I'd consider right out the gate.
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Back in the days of Yahoo groups there was a nice mod of GW's Lord of the Rings game with lists for Romans, Celts, Germans, Dacians, and Greeks (including some mythological elements). If Your group is already familiar with those rules, that could be an option, too. Feel free to reach out to me if you'd like the files.
Otherwise, popular rule sets that scale from relatively small to decent-sized seem to be Clash of Spears, SAGA Hannibal, and SPQR. I have no experience with Clash of Spears, but all seem like they play pretty quickly and aren't too unwieldy or granular.
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Lion Rampant
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I'd also recommend Lion Rampant / Dragon Rampant as being flexible for your requirements. Your basing would fit in fine and you should have no trouble in finishing in under two hours. Also pretty easy to tweak to suit your tastes.
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Back in the days of Yahoo groups there was a nice mod of GW's Lord of the Rings game with lists for Romans, Celts, Germans, Dacians, and Greeks (including some mythological elements). If Your group is already familiar with those rules, that could be an option, too. Feel free to reach out to me if you'd like the files.
Otherwise, popular rule sets that scale from relatively small to decent-sized seem to be Clash of Spears, SAGA Hannibal, and SPQR. I have no experience with Clash of Spears, but all seem like they play pretty quickly and aren't too unwieldy or granular.
I will second these rules. They are fantastic and allow you to do things that others rules never even think of (ie climbing, getting knocked down, laying down for cover, crawling, etc).
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Nobody plays Impetus anymore?
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Nobody plays Impetus anymore?
I wondered the same thing. It is very hard to find any game reports for Impetus. I have recently had a couple of games trying it out. It takes a bit of work to figure it all out but does play quite well.
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Impetus used to be the "go to" set for Ancients in our club. Personally I didn't like it and moved to "To the Strongest" when that was released. Everyone else seemed to follow.
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Okay, I'm likely leading with my glass jaw here but I really enjoy HAIL CAESAR by Warlord Games.
I came to it as a 25-28mm player from WRG 6th and 7th via Warhammer Ancient Battles (which I still love).
I'm not familiar with the other sets mentioned but of course I have read all the postings of their admirers.
I tend not to change rules much and stick with something I like.
All the best and I concur the best starting point is whatever people are playing that you want to game with.