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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Earther on October 23, 2020, 11:18:28 PM

Title: Spacelords?
Post by: Earther on October 23, 2020, 11:18:28 PM
Anyone have any idea why Moonraker/Forlorn Hope have discontinued the Spacelords range?  ??? :? :'(

I was hoping the line would have the gaps filled, rather than all of them disappear into the void...
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on October 24, 2020, 02:59:06 PM
I suspect that Moonraker has sold the Spacelords series to Forlon.

A mistake was, it took too long to produce the Spacelords completely.
Doug took too much time.
At some point the market has no interest in the figures.

It is a pity that nobody is able to produce the SL figures completely. :'(
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Von Trinkenessen on October 24, 2020, 04:34:08 PM
They are now owned by EM 4.
Just had confirmation from Forlorn Hope
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on October 24, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
Who owns the SL Master is basically irrelevant. ;)
Nobody was and is interested in advancing the Spacelords system.
Around 2004 the SL system was destroyed and basically nothing happens.
When the Spacelords Masters were sold in 2004, a company that would bring the system forward should have bought it.
If only I had had the money then. :'(
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Von Trinkenessen on October 24, 2020, 05:18:04 PM
Back in the day I bought a lot of Phagon battle drones to take on my GZG human forces still find them some of the best themed range of hard core aliens as opposed to bugs.

They are one of my Covid lockdown renovation projects.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: axiom on October 24, 2020, 06:07:26 PM
When the Spacelords Masters were sold in 2004, a company that would bring the system forward should have bought it.

Unfortunately there are dozens of other miniature lines and game systems that this has happened to. It's a huge amount of effort to promote a game and a line of figures. I think Doug did a decent job in making the range available at a very reasonable price point for a long time, but ultimately it's a competitive market with plenty of options for 28mm science fiction miniatures.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on October 24, 2020, 06:48:37 PM
My personal opinion:
Doug has waited some (too many) years.
In that time the system has been almost completely forgotten.
What else has he promised ?
In the end it wasn't worth it financially, I understand that.

Basically he can only sell the system and we can only hope that the buyer will make something out of it.

Not that I don't understand Doug.
In the end the production was not profitable, but the fault is that no effort was made to keep the system known.
See also that the rules have not been translated into English.
Actually only the fans have kept the SL system up.

The game is now a stillborn.

Directly after the purchase of Hobby Produkt the new production had to start, not many years later.
Now it is no longer financially worthwhile to reapply for the SL system, it may be too late.

Now it is too late, I personally have no more hope. :'( :'(

Fortunately I have all SL figures and enough reserves for upcoming conversions. :?
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Earther on October 24, 2020, 07:06:03 PM
I thought Forlorn took over EM4 from Doug... confusing much?  lol

But there appears to be a new section on the EM4 site, entitled Spacelords, with a message stating the range is coming soon.

Hurrah!  :D
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on October 24, 2020, 08:27:48 PM
 lol I've been hearing that for years.....  lol
Only I lack faith....

First the figures were at em-4miniatures, then at Moonraker miniatures, now again at em-4miniatures ????
In recent years I have heard many promises, but almost none have been kept.
I am now too old to wait for years more. ;)
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: NurgleHH on October 25, 2020, 02:28:14 PM
lol I've been hearing that for years.....  lol
Only I lack faith....

First the figures were at em-4miniatures, then at Moonraker miniatures, now again at em-4miniatures ??? ?
In recent years I have heard many promises, but almost none have been kept.
I am now too old to wait for years more. ;)
Moonraker is em4, I think. Forlorn hope bought something, but not clear what they bought. The moulds and licence seems to be still at Em4/Moonraker...
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: President Buer on October 27, 2020, 07:14:27 PM
EM-4 announced (https://www.facebook.com/eM4Miniatures/posts/912376259299760) they are re-releasing them and Dunwich Detectives in batches starting in December. Also Combat Zone is almost ready to be restocked - I'm sure I wasn't the only one a little nervous about it possibly disappearing for good.

The other big news there is more fantasy plastic miniatures are probably on the way to fit in with the existing ones.

Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 29, 2020, 08:45:47 AM
Interesting watch, and wish them well with it but still they will still face the same challenges, Doug did and others do, of at the least a financial kind.

Reading a little into it, yes, as was mentioned before, many of the moulds need to be redone etc. that's not changed yet

If they manage an expansion to the plastics, in the same style, after all these years? that would be great to see.

Overall wish them luck, will start checking on them regularly again, and above all hope Viruz might, just might, get some of what he wants at long last  :)

But as he already mentioned its the same underlying issues as before, so hard to keep up the hope, especially with all the competition out there.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on October 29, 2020, 11:48:52 AM
I agree with Tactalvanic in all arguments.   :D ;)
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on November 16, 2020, 10:26:04 PM
em4 miniatures has some SL figures in its assortment. ;)
https://em4miniatures.com/collections/spacelords

Unfortunately very few and only the standard.
I would be happy about command figures and the figures from the multipacks. :-*

Unfortunately the price has increased considerably. :'(
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Earther on November 17, 2020, 06:02:11 PM
It’s a start though :D

Shame they’re significantly more expensive. Hoping that helps pay to get the entire range rereleased.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 17, 2020, 06:51:35 PM
like anything, money has to come from somewhere to do anything, and all costs go up so..

yeah, lets hope it goes to increasing the range of available miniatures.

and not just them that's up of course, but still, how many years have they been at their lower prices now?

So fair enough, they are still in the affordable range, just, have to keep an eye out for sales  :)
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: NurgleHH on November 18, 2020, 07:03:53 AM
I think the problem with EM4 is, that they always release the same few figures. I wait since years of the rest to buy
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on November 18, 2020, 07:42:08 AM
NurgleHH shares my opinion.
Which collector always buys the same figures ?
I do not think there are many buyers for the first miniatures.
Only when miniatures appear on the market, which have not been available for years, will many collectors buy.

I do not like the price increase.
If the prices rise, I have to think 3 times whether I buy the figure. ;)

My salary has not increased either, on the contrary. :'(
Corna also means short-time working.
I will only buy miniatures that have not existed for years.
Moonraker has been flooding the market for years with the same few figures. :'(
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Earther on November 18, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
All valid points. Hoping to see more previously un-rereleased models.

However, I do appreciate that EM-4 are releasing them individually now, rather than in packs.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 18, 2020, 12:19:48 PM
I guess another point is that without promotion to bring them to the attention of new audiences, who's going to buy them that doesn't already have them? I love the sculpts and I'm glad they're still available but given that these sculpts scale up to proper 25mm rather than the current standard of 28-32mm, they have limited appeal to many younger collectors, especially since nostalgia isn't going to be driving their decisions.

Maybe a few sales from those looking for old school style (I bought some to scale with my Mk1 rhino obsession) or cheaper minis, but beyond that surely any spacelords fans have already spent all they're going to spend?
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on November 18, 2020, 03:26:45 PM
Of course I would be happy if em4 miniatures produces all SL Nations.
But I fear that there will not be enough buyers.
Today the collector buys 32/35mm miniatures. :?

I can only hope. ;)
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: sundayhero on November 18, 2020, 07:09:10 PM
I like metal magic minis, I've got plenty of them (fantasy). I'm interested into spacelords, but I'm waiting for the whole range availability to start collecting them.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 22, 2020, 01:32:04 AM
And there in, are many of the problems

Scale, range of product, interested customers, money, advertising and awareness and on and on.

Hope for the best, and will try and punt some money their way, but prices up, yeah ok, nothing really new soon, already have all of it, at least once.

Its a tricky one, and then trying to get new customers.

Well, will see how it goes, and if I can encourage some other gamers that way for an interesting faction or three in their own games, well again if it helps get "new" releases, ok.

Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on November 22, 2020, 10:20:16 AM
@ Tactalvanic
where is the "thumbs up" button when you need it ?  :D
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 22, 2020, 11:46:56 PM
 :D

Indeed, will keep checking back on them, and try and sort out an order for stuff, but typing this while doing nightwork, glad to have work, but would like to swap some of the hours for sleep and hobby time, just a little

 :D
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: eM4 Miniatures on March 25, 2021, 08:32:26 AM
Hi everyone Charlie from eM4 Miniatures here.

Just to let you know we've released some of the Sarday'kin range recently.  :o

We are producing new moulds every month now so you should see the range expand more often.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: NurgleHH on March 26, 2021, 07:56:41 PM
I like metal magic minis, I've got plenty of them (fantasy). I'm interested into spacelords, but I'm waiting for the whole range availability to start collecting them.
You should order the existing releases to support the missing stuff. Only when getting money in EM4 can remould. And the figures need paint, I think...
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on March 27, 2021, 08:54:56 AM
Nice to read that it continues.  :-*

Unfortunately, I fear that not many collectors/players are interested. The Spacelords system has been asleep for too long.

As a Hobby Products collector, I hope the rare SL figures (Command) are produced and the Phagon Brotherhood. ;)

Good luck. :-*



Hi everyone Charlie from eM4 Miniatures here.

Just to let you know we've released some of the Sarday'kin range recently.  :o

We are producing new moulds every month now so you should see the range expand more often.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: eM4 Miniatures on March 28, 2021, 08:37:53 AM
Hi Viruz,

It is a shame it has been a sleep for so long but I am hoping to change that :D

I was lucky enough to take on eM4 last year and get the moulds and miniatures back in August.

We've got several sets of the rules and we are in two mind on whether to re-release and translate the original or perhaps go down and make a "version 2". :)

Love to hear your thoughts  :)
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: robh on March 28, 2021, 10:15:50 AM
You should order the existing releases to support the missing stuff. Only when getting money in EM4 can remould. And the figures need paint, I think...

But any pent up demand that exists is in the missing stuff not the available re-released parts of the range. It would be better to make new moulds of the unavailable figures and use the short term sales of those to relaunch the wider range as a long term product.

Maybe Kickstarter could be an option similarly to the way IWM have done with the Ral Partha Legacy range.  If the masters of the unavailable figures actually exist that is.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 28, 2021, 10:36:28 AM
Well I have just ordered a few Phagon battleclones hope my little order helps erm, a little ;)

Glen
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: NurgleHH on March 28, 2021, 01:15:10 PM
Hi Viruz,

It is a shame it has been a sleep for so long but I am hoping to change that :D

I was lucky enough to take on eM4 last year and get the moulds and miniatures back in August.

We've got several sets of the rules and we are in two mind on whether to re-release and translate the original or perhaps go down and make a "version 2". :)

Love to hear your thoughts  :)
^ I own the original rules. I think v2 is the better solution. Or make a add on for an existing system. The are very old fashioned...
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on March 28, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Are the rules (old or new) really that important for sales?  The market's crowded with figure-neutral scifi skimish and small battle rules right now, and that'll only increase as Stargrave hits stores and the new version of 5 Parsecs from Modiphius soon after. 

Maybe get some noted bloggers or youtubers or twitch streamers to play the rule set of their choice with Spacelords figs.  It's certainly worked wonders with the way youtuber Ash of Guerilla Miniatures Games prominently used Brigade's starship range in all his A Billion Stars videos.  I traded emails with Tony today and he tells me they're absolutely swamped with orders for ships because of that.  Finding a similar publicity opening might be hard, but it sure can't hurt to try considering the potential rewards.

Maybe do something similar with someone who's got a channel or blog dedicated to miniatures reviews, particularly one that does a lot of "historical" models.  Got to be some folks out there who'd be happy to do vids or posts in exchange for some sample figs.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on March 28, 2021, 07:15:24 PM
I would like to order something,but I own everything from the complete
28mm Hobby Products range,except for few Spacelords miniatures.  :'(

Therefore, I will only order when new and missing to me in the store is included.
I don't want to own any more duplicate SL figures.

I would agree if a new Spacelords rulebook appears.
If that doesn't work out, that there will be an English translation. For the english speaking fans.

A set of rules without a certain number of figures makes little sense, just as many pewter figures of different races make sense without a set of rules.

Maybe you should bring a basic rulebook on the market, which will be expanded quarterly.
Including 2 groupings of SL races.
Sarday'kin vs Yoyodyne
Phagon vs Wartech
With 10 miniatures each to start.
With each update of the rulebook appear new miniatures of each race??

Just an idea of mine. ;)
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: eM4 Miniatures on April 10, 2021, 02:43:05 PM
I thought I'd answer some of the common questions we are getting :)

Releasing missing lines
In the past eM4 had mentioned they would make more miniatures if there were more sales but since we took over last year we've decided to launch the whole range! The best way to get interest in a range of miniatures is to have a large enough range IMO, plus we love the miniatures ourselves.

It is going to take some time as we have a number of projects on the cards at the moment but you will see new lines every month :)

Pricing
We've had to raise the pricing a little for a number of reasons, but the main thing is due to rising metal costs and the quality of metal we are using (lead free, detail heavy alloy). When we produce these miniatures, we want them to be the best they can be :D

Rules
I would really love to do this at some point but from the feedback so far (across many platforms) I think getting the miniatures re-released first should be our priority (plus we are working on a new game/range at the moment, unrelated, so we will need to launch that first.)

Going forward
We've taken on eM4 last year and we are a relatively small team, but, we have big plans to make great miniatures and games at affordable prices.
I hope slowly but surely you will see a change in eM4 and we will get both old and new lines launched and back to their former glory :D

Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Viruz on April 10, 2021, 06:45:13 PM
Great. :)
That reads well.I would be happy if your
Ideas can be realized. :-*
It is time that the Spacelords system again
is on everyone's lips again.



I thought I'd answer some of the common questions we are getting :)

Releasing missing lines
In the past eM4 had mentioned they would make more miniatures if there were more sales but since we took over last year we've decided to launch the whole range! The best way to get interest in a range of miniatures is to have a large enough range IMO, plus we love the miniatures ourselves.

It is going to take some time as we have a number of projects on the cards at the moment but you will see new lines every month :)

Pricing
We've had to raise the pricing a little for a number of reasons, but the main thing is due to rising metal costs and the quality of metal we are using (lead free, detail heavy alloy). When we produce these miniatures, we want them to be the best they can be :D

Rules
I would really love to do this at some point but from the feedback so far (across many platforms) I think getting the miniatures re-released first should be our priority (plus we are working on a new game/range at the moment, unrelated, so we will need to launch that first.)

Going forward
We've taken on eM4 last year and we are a relatively small team, but, we have big plans to make great miniatures and games at affordable prices.
I hope slowly but surely you will see a change in eM4 and we will get both old and new lines launched and back to their former glory :D
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 11, 2021, 05:45:45 PM
Will keep checking back frequently, and hopefully push an order through eventually.

Its a positive movement, and look forward to more news/detail regards your other project
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 11, 2021, 05:53:18 PM
Well good luck, may I say I think you could try and revitalise Combat Zone as well, its a great little system and very flexible, but its had nothing new for an absolute age.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck to you in your endeavours.

Glen
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 11, 2021, 07:25:51 PM
Good to see those Phagons are back.
Title: Re: Spacelords?
Post by: NurgleHH on April 13, 2021, 06:17:54 PM
Rules
I would really love to do this at some point but from the feedback so far (across many platforms) I think getting the miniatures re-released first should be our priority (plus we are working on a new game/range at the moment, unrelated, so we will need to launch that first.)
One idea for the players with interest is to use Fistful of lead:Big battles from Wiley-Games. You can buy the rules for a low price as PDF and printed. I will use it, because the old rules are very raw. The printed version of FFoL:BB is sold in GB by Oshiro-Models. Great set of rules. Our test game is moved to a later month this year in fact of pandemic lockdown.