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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: LazyStudent on October 26, 2020, 09:26:08 AM

Title: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: LazyStudent on October 26, 2020, 09:26:08 AM
Hi all,

I'm looking to expand my current late Roman army to be able to complete a Romano British list for a local 28mm DBA competition weekend next summer. Hoping someone can help with my query.

Currently I have some of the gripping beast plastics painted but not based. I have to admit they're certainly not the finest figures on the market. To fill the remainder of the army, I'm constantly tempted by awesome Aventine early Byzantine figures. I am wondering if the figures are at all size/proportionally compatible? Can one mix them on the same base, same unit, same army, or none of the above?

Thank you all in advance!
LS
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: SJWi on October 26, 2020, 10:24:13 AM
Good morning. I don't yet own any of the Aventine Late Byzantines ( but plan to soon!), but have both GB plastics Romans and other Aventine ranges.  Putting them next to my Seleucid infantry the GB figures match height-wise but are more slender....an it isn't just a matter of some people are bigger than others.  I would say you can put them in the same army but personally wouldn't mix in the same unit.

By the way if you are looking for Romano-Byzantines have you looked at the Footsore and Warlord Games ranges. Both produce some very nice Romano-British figures.

Regards.     
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Atheling on October 26, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
I don't have any of the GB Late Romans but I do have a couple of size comparison pictures I took for a mate with some of the Arthurian/Germanics which were sculpted quite early on in the history of the company- all pre Robi Baker so tending to be the more slender sculpts. I haven't actually seen their plastic Late Romans though I would assume they are a similar size to their metals (?) and vis a vis the Germanics which were sculpted at more or less the same time as their Arthurian range.

Slightly larger then actual size:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qaFkEsQYtZs/X5apTa4p7uI/AAAAAAABE08/4gwX94arwwM5hXcTPi04z3rwWXvD4s-bgCLcBGAsYHQ/s350/SIZE%2BCOMPARISON.jpg)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RLcjCpokmtA/X5apVubEd6I/AAAAAAABE1A/y70sP938ABIicRRYSH2YBUp18rFIbu5qgCLcBGAsYHQ/s500/SIZE%2BCOMPARISON%2Bb.jpg)
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: SJWi on October 26, 2020, 03:41:17 PM
Hi Atheling/Lazy Student, I do have both the GB metal and plastic Late Romans.  The plastics are the same height as the metals but more slender. .

 
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Atheling on October 26, 2020, 04:09:40 PM
Hi Atheling/Lazy Student, I do have both the GB metal and plastic Late Romans.  The plastics are the same height as the metals but more slender. .

So, I assume they would probably look quite slender next to Aventine SJWi?
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: SJWi on October 26, 2020, 05:35:01 PM
Atheling, I assume so.  As I posted earlier I don't have the Aventine early Byzantines yet so can only compare them to the Seleucids in my collection. They are of a slimmer build to those figures.

Regards.
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Atheling on October 26, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Atheling, I assume so.  As I posted earlier I don't have the Aventine early Byzantines yet so can only compare them to the Seleucids in my collection. They are of a slimmer build to those figures.

Regards.

I was going to order some GB LR plastics to use for converting some Aventine torsion Engine Crew (I need more crewmen) but if there's a noticeable size difference it ismprobably not worth it. The size difference would be very noticeable on the same small base :(
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: SJWi on October 27, 2020, 05:14:58 AM
Atheling, I can't think of anyone who produces anything close. Could you get away with a few standing figures "on guard"?  I checked Gripping Beast and found the Hatra Ballista which reminded me I have one in my stash. I need to paint it for my post Milvian Bridge Romans! 
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Atheling on October 27, 2020, 07:10:58 AM
Atheling, I can't think of anyone who produces anything close. Could you get away with a few standing figures "on guard"?  I checked Gripping Beast and found the Hatra Ballista which reminded me I have one in my stash. I need to paint it for my post Milvian Bridge Romans!

It's going to have to be a metal conversion using Aventine mini's. I do have an idea using some of the newer heads Adam has sculpted. I'll see what I can come up with though it's been a long time since I did any significant metal conversions.... how times have changed! :)
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: LazyStudent on October 27, 2020, 07:30:03 AM
Hi both,

Thank you so much for the replies and information!!!

Aethling, I have to admit it is your brilliant painted Aventine minis that got me really wanting to use them for the rest of the army. I have to say I'm a little sad, because I've invested some time/effort into the plastic minis. But honestly, I'm more than happy to switch to do all the army with metal figs! :) the plastic minis aren't the best. Very static poses, as the left arm is cast onto the body. And thank you for the suggestions of the other manufacturers. But they always seem to show the Romano British as a rag tag bunch, which fits better with slightly later. I prefer a more professional looking force aiming for the remnants of the comitatensis/limitanei in the early 400s. For the look I am taking some inspiration from the Warlord books. So the Aventine early Byzantine guard figures will have wolf tail crests.

Do we know when the Aventine mounted will be released? I'm wondering if I wait and make one big order, but the worry is waiting too long and it being caught by the Brexit chaos on its way to me in Germany.

Aethling really looking forwards to see what your conversion looks like 👍

Best,
LS
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Atheling on October 27, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
Hi both,

Thank you so much for the replies and information!!!

No problem, I could talk Late/Sub Roman all day  lol

Aethling, I have to admit it is your brilliant painted Aventine minis that got me really wanting to use them for the rest of the army. I have to say I'm a little sad, because I've invested some time/effort into the plastic minis. But honestly, I'm more than happy to switch to do all the army with metal figs! :) the plastic minis aren't the best. Very static poses, as the left arm is cast onto the body. And thank you for the suggestions of the other manufacturers. But they always seem to show the Romano British as a rag tag bunch, which fits better with slightly later. I prefer a more professional looking force aiming for the remnants of the comitatensis/limitanei in the early 500s. For the look I am taking some inspiration from the Warlord books. So the Aventine early Byzantine guard figures will have wolf tail crests.

Have you got the Age of Arthur Warhammer Ancient Battles book, authored by our very own James Morris? It is by far the most balanced of all the WAB books. The lists are very informative and there's a great (a little more then) potted history throughout. You can still pick up copies of the book on eBay and in the Bazaar on LAF every now and again for about £10-15- a worthy investment and worth it just for the eye candy, of which there is a lot (some painted my yours truly).

As regarding Arthurian mini's. There are a lot out there. Unlike my Aventine Byzantines I think I would go for a real mix and match with a Civitatus type army. There's the oft forgotten West Wind Arthurian range (very useful as they have separate heads in almost all the miniatures), Artizan Designs, Crusader Miniatures as well as the fab Footsore and Gripping Beast stuff too. I would definitely chuck in some of the Aventine stuff too.

Do we know when the Aventine mounted will be released?

The answer is sort of yes but I could be betraying someone's confidence if I said anything. My guess is that it will be the lighter cavalry that gets released first.

I'm wondering if I wait and make one big order, but the worry is waiting too long and it being caught by the Brexit chaos on its way to me in Germany.

I can fully sympathise!  o_o o_o o_o

Aethling really looking forwards to see what your conversion looks like 👍


Thanks LS, I'll post up pics as soon as I have anything completed :)
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: LazyStudent on October 28, 2020, 01:58:52 PM
Hi,

Haha, it is certainly an interesting period. I have to say the lack of information out there on the period certainly hinders and at the same time allows some artistic license!

I don't have the book. I will have to keep an eye out for one when it next comes up. But thank you for the recommendation.

I have to say, I have also been looking at the Footsore minis as well. But they seem to be much more expensive than the Aventine ones! And I am not sure I can easily justify the cost. I might look to grab some of the Footsore mounted, as it seems they are much more reasonable per-figure and have some good character. Any knowledge if the Footsore foot can be mixed in with the Aventine ones?

Also I have to admit, I am worried about getting the Aventine minis on to the base sizes we use. For the heavy foot we normally have 8 figures on a 60mm x 50mm base! Looking at all the other bases out there, it seems the max I will be able to fit is 6!

Best,
LS
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Atheling on October 28, 2020, 10:30:19 PM
Hi,

Haha, it is certainly an interesting period. I have to say the lack of information out there on the period certainly hinders and at the same time allows some artistic license!

Part of the fun  :D

I don't have the book. I will have to keep an eye out for one when it next comes up. But thank you for the recommendation.

It is really worth getting hold of a copy if you get the chance.

I have to say, I have also been looking at the Footsore minis as well. But they seem to be much more expensive than the Aventine ones! And I am not sure I can easily justify the cost. I might look to grab some of the Footsore mounted, as it seems they are much more reasonable per-figure and have some good character. Any knowledge if the Footsore foot can be mixed in with the Aventine ones?

The Aventine mini's will be slightly chunkier but if you have them in different units it won't show really. BTW, Footsore are going to be doing some Unit Deals at some point so maybe keep an eye out for these?

Also I have to admit, I am worried about getting the Aventine minis on to the base sizes we use. For the heavy foot we normally have 8 figures on a 60mm x 50mm base! Looking at all the other bases out there, it seems the max I will be able to fit is 6!

 :o Ouch! That is a squeeze!

I've used 400mm frontage by 60mm depth in this unit:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DRdff-jvx6A/Xz_m27QwpOI/AAAAAAABEMY/Wcro7-qFDuckl4SwLHBWZCiJT9Fa3YyewCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/AVENTINE%2BBYZANTINE%2BHEAVY%2BINFANTRY%2BUNIT%2B1D.jpg)
More pics here:
https://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com/2020/08/aventine-byzantine-heavy.html (https://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com/2020/08/aventine-byzantine-heavy.html)


And 40mm frontage with a 50mm depth in this unit:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CnKVRkmC4SE/X4hvvE6bldI/AAAAAAABEyQ/dBXCi0CGp6YOGsxenX0dbX9dGw8-NDVqACLcBGAsYHQ/s1500/BYZ%2BSKUT%2B1I.jpg)
More pics here:
https://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com/2020/10/early-byzantine-skutatoi-combined-unit.html (https://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com/2020/10/early-byzantine-skutatoi-combined-unit.html)


They're based for Swordpoint, Hail Caesar, WAB etc but could be used in mortem et Glorium by taking the back rank away and using as another unit.

Thanks to the Covid situation I cannot even claim to have rolled a dice in anger on their behalf!  lol
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: SJWi on October 29, 2020, 05:28:33 AM
Lazy Student, yes I think you will struggle to fit 8 figures on a 60 x 60mm base. I have 6 Polybian Romans on a similar size base and I definitely couldn't fit 8 figures on it.  The shields alone would make it nigh-on impossible.
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: LazyStudent on October 29, 2020, 07:23:43 AM
Hi both,

Thank you for confirming of my fears! This might drive me to using the GB plastics as I think I can probably get them onto the bases!

Thanks!
LS :D
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: SJWi on October 29, 2020, 09:06:07 AM
I would love to see 8 x 28mm figures of any make on a 60 x 60mm base. Feels very crowded to me, especially if the figures are in dynamic poses.
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Atheling on October 29, 2020, 02:48:24 PM
Hi both,

Thank you for confirming of my fears! This might drive me to using the GB plastics as I think I can probably get them onto the bases!

Thanks!
LS :D

Happy to help so no probs. Please post up pictures when you have them table ready :)
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Aventine on November 01, 2020, 10:24:16 PM
(https://d2j6dbq0eux0bg.cloudfront.net/images/24863013/1308519822.jpg)
(https://le-cdn.website-editor.net/e066746d3e89409f920c16e25af448cc/dms3rep/multi/opt/20200301_172732_resized-1920w.jpg)

I have based all my 28mm on 60mm x 30mm bases, I put two together for ADLG. Check the store and any you see on 4 to a base are on 60mm wide bases.

Cheers
Keith
Aventine Miniatures.
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: SteveBurt on November 02, 2020, 09:33:21 AM
I would love to see 8 x 28mm figures of any make on a 60 x 60mm base. Feels very crowded to me, especially if the figures are in dynamic poses.
My 28mm Greeks and Macedonians have 4 figures on a 60x20mm base. So I can fit 12 figures in 60x60mm; maybe I should post a picture? But my Romans and Gauls only have 3. The phalanxes tend to have fairly uniform poses and look good with shields overlapped.
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: LazyStudent on November 02, 2020, 11:59:11 AM

I have based all my 28mm on 60mm x 30mm bases, I put two together for ADLG. Check the store and any you see on 4 to a base are on 60mm wide bases.

Cheers
Keith
Aventine Miniatures.

Hi Keith,

Aha, so in your estimations then 8 figures on a 60mm x 50mm base is not impossible? I guess I would have to get inventive with the poses. But, I am glad that the dream might not be totally dead! The figures you have in the second photo are from the 'shieldwall' unit deal selection, correct?

Also, out of interest, is the plan to launch the cavalry before or after Christmas?

Thanks!
LS
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: SJWi on November 02, 2020, 01:13:46 PM
LS, I think the moral of the story is “check your figures first.” Figures such as standing pikemen could fit on a small-ish base but more dynamically posed figures may struggle. I have 6 Renegade Republican Romans on a 60 x 60mm base. They are posed throwing pila and I doubt I could fit more figures.
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: Aventine on November 02, 2020, 02:51:27 PM
Lazy Student

The figures you have in the second photo are from the 'shieldwall' unit deal selection, correct?

Yes they are.

Cavalry as soon as I get them from Adam, He is working away on them, the unarmoured horses are ready. The new Osprey due 26 November "Roman Heavy Cavalry 2" has thrown up some new detail and he wants to see what it contains before finishing the armoured riders and horses. He hopes to have the unarmoured out soon. I will be seeing him tomorrow and can better update then.

Cheers
Keith
Title: Re: Figure Compatibility: GB plastic late Romans vs Aventine early Byzantine
Post by: madaxeman on November 02, 2020, 11:41:27 PM
Hi Keith,

Aha, so in your estimations then 8 figures on a 60mm x 50mm base is not impossible? I guess I would have to get inventive with the poses. But, I am glad that the dream might not be totally dead! The figures you have in the second photo are from the 'shieldwall' unit deal selection, correct?

Also, out of interest, is the plan to launch the cavalry before or after Christmas?

Thanks!
LS

I've just about fitted some 7's and even 8's of a mix of the GB, Footsore and some other very Late Romans onto a 60x30 before (for ADLG) - so it can be done of course this was before those lovely Aventine figures were available so I do have an excuse for not adding some of them in too  ;)

(https://www.madaxeman.com/images/Figures/25mm_Ancient/IMGP6103.JPG)

(https://www.madaxeman.com/images/Figures/25mm_Ancient/IMGP6107.JPG)

(more photos here: https://www.madaxeman.com/main/25mm_ADLG_Patricians_2017.php)