Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: Sinewgrab on August 20, 2011, 11:36:19 PM
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I was trying to explain to a friend who is an utter novice to VSF how Aeronefs have been determined to fly over the years, and I thought I would ask for help compliling the list.
So far, I have:
Cavorite (our favorite anti-grav metal) (HG Wells, of course)
Liftwood (naturally occurring on Mars, of course) (Space:1889)
Gravity Screws - acting as a propeller in gravitational fields (Aeronef game)
8th rays or nth rays (from John Carter)
Hydrogen (Boooring...)
Which ones have I missed?
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Regular, non weird science airscrews (aka helicopter style rotor blades, although usually in large numbers per vessel, as per George Griffith's "Angel of the Revolution" found in Forgotten Futures VII "Tsar Wars")
Steel spheres containing perfect vacuums (which are obviously lighter than air... OK it's not a very good idea, but I remember seeing it was proposed at one point)
Castle Falkenstein's airships used Hydrogen for lift (or at least neutral buoyancy in air) but semi-sorcerous engines that latch on to the Earth's magnetic field and propel the ship in any direction at great speed.
Finally for the smaller and extremely whimsical flyers there's the old "tethered flock of geese" gag, but whether that would scale up to the gunboat/warship level is doubtful.
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I've always favored the Unobtanium plating on the hulls, from the mines on Atlantis...
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'The master of the world' and 'Robur the conquor', whilst not great books, show the theory behind virtical airscrews. 'The War In the Air' also shows a number of different Ideas on viable flying machines - particularly Onathropters (machines that mimic the flight of birds).
And then theres always Tesla's experiments using electrical charge to exploit the worlds natural magnitism to produce flight.
If your one of those 'steampunk people' then theres the option of jet engines or magic.
Marx
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Don't forget good old steam with more efficient engines enabling enough power to propel a craft like a convential combustion or jet engine.
This technique is used in the vsf - ish futuristic novel Fitzpatrick's War by Theodore Judson.
Also you have Helium or the extra light Zeelium.
Basically any type of elevation is fine as long as you can make up a convincing back story :)
Cheers
Fuzzy.
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Oh, I know, but he needs background, and by noting which ones have been proposed, it allows me to point him at books and references.
I love the vacuum sphere idea...hmm that could be more durable than a balloon...
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Hey Sinewgrab, can I point you at this thread - http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=14926.0 - that details some of these things?
In the 'Airborn' books by Kenneth Oppel (not exactly VSF but containing airships and sky-pirates and scientifical expeditions and whatnot, in a sort of alternative-Edwardian setting), there is a lighter-than-air gas that comes out of vents in the ground and smells of mangoes. It's called 'hydrium' and that's what's used to give the airships lift.
There are also ornothopters in the books, but the airship crews seem to regard them as crazy contraptions.
EDIT: meant to put a link to the wiki about Airborn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborn
EDIT part 2: away from the Airborn books and on to VSF more generally, there are also aether-sails I think but I can't remember which stories use them. Not that they give you lift of course, and they're for interplanetary travel rather than atmospheric, but a part of the pseudo-science nevertheless.
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Good lord, whatever do they teach in schools these days? As every schoolboy should know, aeronef flight is primarily achieved by the effect of phlogiston on the aether.
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I love it, Red Orc - I posted heavily in that thread, and I still couldn't find it when I was running searches for this kind of thing. Thanks for the pointer.
Of course, having reread that thread, now I have the idea of disbelievium, which, when mixed with suspensitite, allows huge steel and wood contraptions to sail through the air.
Hah! :D
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I live to serve, Sinewgrab.
I found it because I remembered I'd made the 'suspension of disbelief' gag, and searched for that... ::) lol
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Disbelievium? Suspensite? Brilliant!
I tip me 'at to you guv'nor, if only to distract you from the well train'd urchin wot's swiping that gag for me.
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This is just my concept but it's the Antigravatical Gyrometer. A vertically mounted gyroscopic engine with pole-nodes projecting from the deck and the keel. One node pushes a narrow focus antigravatical field against the earth the other pushes a wide focus field against the atmosphere. Balancing the two poles determines altitude. The craft however, requires a seperate propulsion system as well as stablization (ie: wings).
That's my concept. ;)
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My yet-to-be-built Cytherian forces include armored zep's because of the heavy, damp atmosphere. This in spite of the fact that water vapor is lighter than air. lol
I toyed with the idea of steam-filled, floating contraptions, but, brainwise, it's a bit of a tough go.
Doug
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There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Pick a nice day, [The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy] suggests, and try it.
The first part is easy. All it requires is simply the ability to throw yourself forward with all your weight, and the willingness not to mind that it's going to hurt.
That is, it's going to hurt if you fail to miss the ground. Most people fail to miss the ground, and if they are really trying properly, the likelihood is that they will fail to miss it fairly hard.
Clearly, it is the second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
One problem is that you have to miss the ground accidentally. It's no good deliberately intending to miss the ground because you won't. You have to have your attention suddenly distracted by something else when you're halfway there, so that you are no longer thinking about falling, or about the ground, or about how much it's going to hurt if you fail to miss it.
It is notoriously difficult to prize your attention away from these three things during the split second you have at your disposal. Hence most people's failure, and their eventual disillusionment with this exhilarating and spectacular sport.
If, however, you are lucky enough to have your attention momentarily distracted at the crucial moment by, say, a gorgeous pair of legs (tentacles, pseudopodia, according to phyllum and/or personal inclination) or a bomb going off in your vicinty, or by suddenly spotting an extremely rare species of beetle crawling along a nearby twig, then in your astonishment you will miss the ground completely and remain bobbing just a few inches above it in what might seem to be a slightly foolish manner.
This is a moment for superb and delicate concentration. Bob and float, float and bob. Ignore all consideration of your own weight simply let yourself waft higher. Do not listen to what anybody says to you at this point because they are unlikely to say anything helpful. They are most likely to say something along the lines of "Good God, you can't possibly be flying!" It is vitally important not to believe them or they will suddenly be right.
Waft higher and higher. Try a few swoops, gentle ones at first, then drift above the treetops breathing regularly.
DO NOT WAVE AT ANYBODY.
When you have done this a few times you will find the moment of distraction rapidly easier and easier to achieve.
You will then learn all sorts of things about how to control your flight, your speed, your maneuverability, and the trick usually lies in not thinking too hard about whatever you want to do, but just allowing it to happen as if it were going to anyway.
You will also learn about how to land properly, which is something you will almost certainly screw up, and screw up badly, on your first attempt.
There are private clubs you can join which help you achieve the all-important moment of distraction. They hire people with surprising bodies or opinions to leap out from behind bushes and exhibit and/or explain them at the critical moments. Few genuine hitchhikers will be able to afford to join these clubs, but some may be able to get temporary employment at them.
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As part of my Khosindan back story I've come up with Gravanthracite, discovered by Sir Henry Northbrook.
An extract from Sir Henry's journal
“Eureka! Success indeed. I believe I have discovered a mineral with properties that will change transportation for ever. This evening after dinner, Arnold, Du’Lac and I sat around the camp fire brewing coffee and discussing the days’ surveying. I had placed a canvas camp stool close to the fire and had emptied my pocket’s contents onto it, so that I could sit more comfortably. The coffee pot must have shifted as the logs in the fire burnt through, as the steam rising from the spout started to come through the stool’s canvas top. Within moments, a number of the nuggets that had been in my pocket were rocketing skyward, accompanied by their now all too familiar whistling sound. It appears that Gravanthracite simply requires water vapour and heat to become weightless; it does not need to be fully immersed in water!”
The full story can be read here http://www.consolemonkey.plus.com/vsf/gravanthracite.pdf (http://www.consolemonkey.plus.com/vsf/gravanthracite.pdf)
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that's a really interesting thread indeed: i've been wondering on that stuff for a while. The anti grav- metal is pretty nice: the steam engine is meant to keep the antigrav metal hot (too easy a nograv metal at 300 Kelvin), so you still have a lot of smoke, but not an insane "steamfall" keeping the ship in the air! :P
Also you have Helium or the extra light Zeelium.
well, i think that you can't improve the lift more than 12% from the helium! unless you use a negative mass! XD
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As part of my Khosindan back story I've come up with Gravanthracite, discovered by Sir Henry Northbrook.
***snippage***
The full story can be read here http://www.consolemonkey.plus.com/vsf/gravanthracite.pdf (http://www.consolemonkey.plus.com/vsf/gravanthracite.pdf)
I see you're following the 'used up' quality of other materials, similar to liftwood's evaporation, for instance. The fact that it's not shielding against gravity, and doesn't have to coat the hull, therefore not externally vulnerable, certainly changes how it's viewed, of course. More like a fuel.
Speaking of fuels, why did you decide to make it super-anthracite as well?
Doug
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In WTNW some use a process called T.H.O.R. Turbine Heat Osmosis Resistance.
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Speaking of fuels, why did you decide to make it super-anthracite as well?
Doug
On the basis that I could use it to fuel smaller, lighter boilers that would need less fuel; aiding weight reduction and therefore making the craft easier to lift.
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On the basis that I could use it to fuel smaller, lighter boilers that would need less fuel; aiding weight reduction and therefore making the craft easier to lift.
It's thinking like that, actually producing an unobtanium, that makes one almost able to swallow Steamboy's handwavium. :D
'I have an iron ball. It produces unlimited amounts of steam. See the wheel crank?' lol
Thanks!
Doug
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There is always Stardust. stardust is gravity resitant. paint enough stardust on the hull and you can float anything. Airships can fly. This is science FICTION, is it not.
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lol lol lol!
do you mean the Tinker Bell dust, right?
YOU CAN FLY!!!!
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Tinkerbell uses Pixie dust. Pixie dust is magic. Stardust is science fiction.
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I see. That makes sense. lol
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The difference is important, moreso when it isn't.
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Just bought several GW Dark Eldar hulls for small kites, assuming Martian, and looking at the ventral side, wonder if I would use as is.
If so, I will invent a sort of lifting gas that needs to be slowly released under a vessel. No good in a bag, as it needs to form a layer under the hull. An inverted tub would be an ideal solution, but gives rise to roll stability issues, and 'lumping' unevenly. The lower grating allows uniform dispersion, and the slight 'v' aids stability, both roll and for linear travel.
Even the wasted gas allows great speed as it slips under the hull. I may even make a scoop to the rear that allows the lift flow to impart forward motion.
Points for naming of gas, deducting for humor. This hallowed forum is too dignified for what crossed my mind... :D
Doug
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I find a great deal of inspiration from old magazines. seems if you can imagine it, it can be done!
http://www.pdfmagaz.in/17240410-popular-science-04-1925/
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Flatus-gas, there i said it :o lol
Happy new year guys and girls
Glen
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To paraphrase an old joke about a 500-pound gorilla, "However they want to."
EDIT: 2011! Good lord, I didn't realize I was crossing such a powerful necromancer. I better get my rattles and charms out...
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I've found all information is new until I have seen it.
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Phlogiston.
Phlogisticated air from the lift engine can also be captured, stored, and used for fire-fighting on board ship.
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Surely any sensible aeronef captain would man his or her ship with a acutely chtonophobic (greek: gound abhoring) crew which will resort to anything to keep the vessel from touching the ground.
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George Griffith's "Honeymoon In Space" hasn't been mentioned, which is a bit surprising. Aeronefs in that setting used the proven gravity-repelling powers of R-Matter (R for Repulsive of course). R-Matter is only found on Earth in meteor impact craters, which made holding such sites strategically important and further drove colonialism. The general effect was a "pusher" ray that could be aimed to provide both lift and (by angling the ray against the ground below) propulsion. It was quite capable of interplanetary travel as well as in-atmosphere maneuvering. The Chinese forces occupying the ex-USA in Armageddon 2419AD (the original Buck Rogers novel) used a very similar system for their airships, although their rays were produced by weird science generators rather than a relatively rare natural resource. They could also generate a tractor beam effect with a similar gadget, although the rebels quickly learned to use them against the Han by introducing bombs into the beam.