Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: Whiskyrat on March 28, 2013, 06:42:54 PM
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From the webpage ...
"Developed by world famous game designers Alessio Cavatore, Ernie Baker, and Rick Priestly (creator of Warhammer and Warhammer 40k) All Quiet on the Martian Front is guaranteed to deliver fresh and exciting game play!"
http://www.martianfront.com/
Not a scale I game in but some of the Martians may be useful for 28mm. :)
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Quite keen at first and then saw the "tanks".
I'm sorry but why use the GW-looking "Mark IV male with extra big guns randomly added"?
If you're going for a SPG design why not use the Mark I gun carrier rather than sticking a howitzer on the roof of a Mk IV like a Basilisk?
Rant over.
But it puts me off the kickstarter straight off.
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Hmm, yes, not really don't think much of the figures shown, if I'm honest, but certainly potential. They're largely managed to avoid the steampunk pitfall, anyway, so that's a plus.
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I'd be all over this if it was 28mm...
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"... With grime purpose..."
Sweet Jesus, get a decent editor!
Pardon my language, but fucking strike two (after the crap looking tank) is a failure to use a decent editor and the Mark I eyeball instead of just depending on spellcheck. Really?
Even, no especially, if your native language is not English, (UK/American/Aussie versions,) and you are marketing in English don't make such dumb ass mistakes.
Gracias,
Glenn
who was kinda excited despite the risk of "40K in 1910" possibility until I actually looked at the pre-kickstarter page...
Edit: This kind of poor business practice gives me a headache...
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Saw a bit of the range on display at Cold Wars. Although 15's are not my scale, there were some nice pieces. They had a number of other AFV's that were better than what's shown -- a gun tractor with separate loading crane comes to mind that could work as a small tracked field howitzer in a larger scale. Likewise, the tripods could work in a 28mm game. Not massive all but still towering over a standard figure and easily 2 stories tall. Definitely a line worth picking and choosing from.
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Saw a bit of the range on display at Cold Wars. <snip> Definitely a line worth picking and choosing from.
Yeah, guess we should wait and see but still not jumping up and down with joy...
Gracias,
Glenn
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"... With grime purpose..."
Sweet Jesus, get a decent editor!
Pardon my language, but fucking strike two (after the crap looking tank) is a failure to use a decent editor and the Mark I eyeball instead of just depending on spellcheck. Really?
Even, no especially, if your native language is not English, (UK/American/Aussie versions,) and you are marketing in English don't make such dumb ass mistakes.
Gracias,
Glenn
who was kinda excited despite the risk of "40K in 1910" possibility until I actually looked at the pre-kickstarter page...
Edit: This kind of poor business practice gives me a headache...
Mate, take a chill pill. People make mistakes...
You have to remember, editors cost money. I can't imagine this is a huge company, they are probably paying a lot of money for concepts, sculpts, writers, rules developers and then editing comes last.
Also, if English was not their first language, I would have patience with them and accept the mistakes. Better yet, offer your services for free if it is such a big bloody deal!
'Gracias',
Rob
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Mate, take a chill pill. People make mistakes...
You have to remember, editors cost money. I can't imagine this is a huge company, they are probably paying a lot of money for concepts, sculpts, writers, rules developers and then editing comes last.
Also, if English was not their first language, I would have patience with them and accept the mistakes. Better yet, offer your services for free if it is such a big bloody deal!
'Gracias',
Rob
It's a part of business expenses. It's one of the big complaints I have about the lack of professionalism in "Hobby business" in general. It's improved over time (I remember mimeographed rules) but if you advertise and market in English (or any other language) then you need a professional edit of your presentations. As a person who is extremely challenged (spelling and grammar) in two languages I think it is incumbent on me if I was a business to get that help.
Gracias,
Glenn
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<snip>
Also, if English was not their first language, I would have patience with them and accept the mistakes.
<snip>
Alessio Cavatore, Ernie Baker, and Rick Priestly - in this multi-cultural world you can't tell by names but I believe the last two of these are native English speakers?
Gracias,
Glenn
'
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<snip>
Better yet, offer your services for free if it is such a big bloody deal!
'Gracias',
Rob
I don't work for free in a business matter. You get what you pay for when you rely solely on free.
And, even at free you would get what you pay for, I spend significant time with spellcheck and grammar check at work plus the review of the my local Grammar Nazi and/or Evil Editor (usually both) when I write Supplemental Intelligence Reports or Geospatial Quick Notes so I don't look like the 1950s/1960s product of the Los Angeles school system that I am.
Gracias to you too, without the quote marks,
Glenn
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I congratulate *anyone* making a move into this niche market, regardless of the odd bloody spelling mistake, which in the grand scheme of things, is not a big deal. I'm sure it's certainly not worth swearing about...
Also, I think you'll find helping out in the gaming community is very rewarding. I love my hobby and have 'worked' for several companies in the past in this manner. I also believe in karma to an extent (not the mystical kind, but at least that good intentions are often met with good return favours) and that is how I find it rewarding in business terms.
I apologise for putting your catchphrase into quotation marks, I will admit, that was me being a knob.
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I'm not sold on the background.
I asked why the GW-esque designs, got this reply:
"Thanks for your inquiry/observations. We are getting lots of emails at the moment but we are trying to get back to everyone.
Sorry you are disappointed in the first wave of tanks. Perhaps some context will help.
While we are using Mark III and Mark IV and so on, the vehicles are not supposed to be derivatives of the British tanks designs. Any resemblance to GW stuff is coincidental and related to them using the WWI British tanks as their inspiration.
This is not a World War One game. In fact, the evolution of the American vehicles started to occur before the actual historical date of World War one. We use World War One as a reference to keep things easier because ten years after the initial invasion places it there.
Only a few designs have been shown to date. The Basilisk one you refer to will most likely not make it into a produced model. The Mark III Baldwin Steam tank IS small and very cramped. There are two larger chasis in the works.
As to why steam, this dissertation which is going out in our next Newsletter may or may not help you get your head around it.
I appreciate your feedback as most of it has been “cool” or “when can we some even bigger guns?”. Nice that people like it, but not reflective of the amount of thought going into it."
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Why Steam? Actually the real question is “Oil or Coal?”
We have had a few folks ask about the human vehicles: “If it’s World War One, why steam instead of internal combustion engines?” The answer to that question is actually it’s not all steam and it’s not actually World War One. It’s also not a secret agenda to do “Steam Punk”! There is much more to it than that. In fact, the majority of human vehicles that have been shown and some of the new ones to come are American equipment because the American theater is the focus of Part One of the Great Interplanetary War that goes by the title All Quiet on the Martian Front. The British Expeditionary Force operating in the American theater uses a quite different group of power sources-more on that later.
Anyway, the reason American Forces use steam power for their larger vehicles is as follows:
In 1910, America runs on coal. With the largest and most advanced railway system in the world, huge coal reserves, and the petroleum industry still in its infancy in many ways, coal was the fastest resource to exploit in defending against the Martian invasion. In addition, steam engines were a well developed technology, the manufacturing base to produce more was in place on a large scale, and it could all be done fast. This last bit was particularly important as the American army was very tiny in comparison to the amount of territory that had to be defended and technologically ill equipped. With the exception of a few primitive trucks and steam tractors, the American Army was a horse drawn affair of towed guns, cavalry, and infantry. These forces were virtually useless against the Martians. If America had any hope of survival it needed new weapons, vehicles, and technology IMMEDIATELY. It was both natural and logical to turn to the strengths of its current industrial base. While defensive lines of massive trench works and fortifications could slow the Martians, it certainly didn’t stop them. What was needed was defense in depth and the ability to relocate resources to repel an attack at its point of origin. The War was becoming a far more mobile affair. The one advantage humans did have was numbers. Getting enough numbers into action to absorb the Martian attacks was the key. This meant vehicles and due to the appalling losses against the Martian technology, LOTS of vehicles. There was no automotive industry beyond the cottage level. The biggest producers of vehicles were the railroad companies. Baldwin Locomotive Works, The American Locomotive Company and others soon started building more steam tractors that eventually became armored to improve their survivability and then tracked to increase their mobility. Within a matter of months it was clear that standard designs would speed production immensely. Thus was born one of the single greatest accomplishments in perhaps all of human industrial history. American went from having virtually no self propelled military equipment to assembly line production of thousands of vehicles in the course of a single year.
So there you have it. Steal and Coal are the fuels and materials of choice. The great locomotive companies of the industrial east bring their expertise to production. Oil and the refining of it into suitable fuels like kerosene, gasoline, and diesel fuel is far less abundant than the vast coal fields of West Virginia and Pennsylvania. Petroleum does make it onto the battlefield in the form of internal combustion engines used for motorcycles, armored cars, the new aero planes etc., but it is steam that powers the huge gun carrying vehicles with their heavy steel and ceramic armor on the battlefield. At the time of the Great Interplanetary Wars beginning, internal combustion engines simply were not advanced enough to provide the power needed for some of the larger military constructs and in America and refined oil products were in short supply compared to the need.
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My thoughts on their reply?
I referred to the Mk IVs at Bovington purely because I'm aware of how cramped they are (even with petrol engines).
I also saw that the second invasion begins at the end of 1908, a few months after Model Ts started to come off the Michigan lines.
America already had armoured cars, although only fitted with bullet-proof shields, in 190, the Davidson from Illinois.
Since both Model Ts and Davidsons are petrol-driven it seems illogical to propose coal-power as a superior alternative.
Even the Belgians had armoured cars by 1912 (the Minerva) although the Belgian army in 1914 still had machine-guns on carts pulled by dogs.
For steam power I would suggest some variant of armoured train, perhaps HG Wells Land Ironclads (1903) - a 100 foot long vehicle.
But looking forward to hearing/seeing more
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My initial interest has been severely muted by what i've seen.
A few points:
1. Basically looking at the WH40K writing team there. So i anticipate the rules will be derivative of the (pretty uninspired) basic mechanics there.
2. The models, while pre-production are pretty sub-par and uninspired. If it's set in the US, why use British vehicles for inspiration? At least try to do something new surely? I mean we've just seem Dystopian Legions set the bar high...
3. Its set in America. >:( >:( >:( Dagnabbit, why does it always have to be in America. Just once, i'd like to see a War of the Worlds inspired Martian invasion film/book/game/thing actually take place in Britain in the late-1800's, where it belongs. :-[
I'll continue to watch this with interest but if it continues in the current vein i can't see me buying in... :(
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2. The models, while pre-production are pretty sub-par and uninspired. If it's set in the US, why use British vehicles for inspiration? At least try to do something new surely?
To be fair I'm not concerned that the designs look like British Mk IVs etc, provided they keep the designs sensible.
After all, Spielberg & Lucas used the Mk VIII as a starting point for Indiana Jones, and the Jawa sandcawler looks as though it may have been inspired by the A7V.
There are plenty of odd looking designs - the French St Chamond or the Fiat 2000 look bizarre enough to be science fiction, or there is the big-wheel Tsar tank.
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Two things to say:-
- wrong scale for me – unfortunately.
- but love the name of the main battle tanks “Baldwin” for some reason!! :D
Blodwin
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I like the look of this, in spite of some misgivings about the setting. 15mm isn't my favourite scale but it does work better for the big battles gaming.
The martian stuff might be handy for 28mm strange as well.
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<snip>
3. Its set in America. >:( >:( >:( Dagnabbit, why does it always have to be in America. Just once, i'd like to see a War of the Worlds inspired Martian invasion film/book/game/thing actually take place in Britain in the late-1800's, where it belongs. :-[
<snip>
lol
I recently was just 'found guilty' of complaining that EOTD was set in London on the basis of "Why does so much VSF/Gothic Horror stuff seem to be set in London/centered on Britain?" The answer to the VSF part of the whine was that originally the most common VSF common trooper conversions were from the Zulu War Brits (Ral Partha?) of the day.
That said, I feel your pain in that. Maybe it is set there because there are such wide geographical possibilities for game scenarios?
Guess I will have to read the official explanation post I have not checked yet...
Gracias,
Glenn
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<snip>
I apologise for putting your catchphrase into quotation marks, I will admit, that was me being a knob.
Well, my original post wasn't a "shining moment" for me so if you will just write it off as a bad day for me I would appreciate that.
Apologies for a post that, while releasing my frustrations, didn't contribute positively to the discussion.
Unlike e-mail there is no "save draft for 24 hours and think about it" mode for forums.
Gracias,
Glenn
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My thoughts on their reply?
I referred to the Mk IVs at Bovington purely because I'm aware of how cramped they are (even with petrol engines).
I also saw that the second invasion begins at the end of 1908, a few months after Model Ts started to come off the Michigan lines.
America already had armoured cars, although only fitted with bullet-proof shields, in 190, the Davidson from Illinois.
Since both Model Ts and Davidsons are petrol-driven it seems illogical to propose coal-power as a superior alternative.
Even the Belgians had armoured cars by 1912 (the Minerva) although the Belgian army in 1914 still had machine-guns on carts pulled by dogs.
For steam power I would suggest some variant of armoured train, perhaps HG Wells Land Ironclads (1903) - a 100 foot long vehicle.
But looking forward to hearing/seeing more
Yeah, I would have thought a US based scenario would have been more oil oriented but that may be my born in 1950 and growing up with 'cars as the main mode of movement in Southern California' effect. Cultural blinders thing...
Not sure about how the gasoline versus steam car debate was in 1908. A car fanatic friend says it could have gone either way if not for the mass production by Ford and others.
The USA had learned a lot in the ACW about strategic movement of troops and supplies with trains (and by 1864 raiding to destroy railroad tracks were being effectively neutralized by the Union repair workers so the Martians spending resources to cut those lines might have been cost ineffective in the early 1900's) so the armored train for supporting offensive operations might have been viable. Of course the Martians might not have chosen to cooperate with those plans. Smart enemies don't play to your strengths. So Steam trains might have still been optimal for some scenarios.
Gracias,
Glenn
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It may be set in the US but by the look of the minis, they could be Brits just as well.
The vehicles seem a bit modern, but nothing a little converting couldn't fix.
The Martians... ahhh the Martians. ;D :-* ;D