Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Kommando_J on September 21, 2014, 12:46:00 AM
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Inspired by recent threads, I want to get a thread of ideas going for vbcw themes/units/conversions.
For instance some of Perry and warlords new stuff seems ripe for vbcw application, Wolsley helmt packs and the new armoured cars and radio truck seem perfect, any ideas gents?
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I would never want to give the impression that VBCW wasn't welcome on LAF, but surely the VBCW forum itself does a far better job of offering a community of ideas and suggestions than a single thread here?
http://vbcf.freeforums.org/1938-a-very-british-civil-war-f53.html
There's no 'don't ask, don't tell' policy as regards LAF membership and 'other forums' you know? ;)
By the same token, there's no reason why you can't discuss it here either though. :)
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Yep, take a look at the Very British Civil Forum, sign up and say hi - we're a reasonably friendly bunch!
Also have at look at my VBCW minis guide at http://vbcwminisguide.blogspot.co.uk for ideas on what minis to use.
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I've looked and while I liked what I saw, updates are somewhat sparse, here seems like a better idea to get the ball roloing, plus i'm after input from players/converters from all of LAF.
I'm looking to see new ground tread to help relieve my creative block.
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A lot of games I've seen tend to be local affairs (which is very much in the spirit of VBCW), but even if you don't want to do a grander campaign, how about a mission or series of missions which take a small group out of their local element? Yorkshiremen trying a London assassination or covering for an intelligence mission or such.
Another thing you rarely see are naval battles or battles with a significant naval element (though I have seen a few).
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I am not even British, so what do I know, but I envy you guys so much.
I love the spirit of VBCW and as thinking comes free, I did came up with a few ideas.
I'd do some of those myself:
- (Welsh) scout squad. Some sheep and some men wearing sheep skin as ghillie suits, herded by a shepherd (that certainly has a shotgun hidden in his coat!)
- Football platoon/company/unit with football jerseys. I guess a guy kicking grenades would be a nice stand-in for a rifle grenade.
- Miners, but I think those were done already.
- International brigades could always work.
Plastics are nice for conversions and I would probably go with Warlord Brits as they got helmets separate, so you don't have to use them and helps with making a unit more civilian looking.
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You could always pick a region, and have a volunteer platoon from your home country, painted up in your local colours.
The new tropical hats from empress and perry make me want to try an African/eastern set vbcw force, perhaps with Japanese on the side of the BUF Foreign Legion? both are strongly monarchist and fascist.
On the other side have Anglican league aligned missionaries rouse up volunteers from the local explorer/settler/game warden/mission and convince local chiefs to provide troops.
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I am not even British, so what do I know, but I envy you guys so much.
Maybe I might be in a minority, but I get a lot of pleasure out of seeing 'foreign' perceptions of the British, so what you do not know, make it up.
:)
Dressing up as a 'naughty sheep' is considered a bit 'kinky' in some rural areas though. ;)
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For a naval-themed game, the Scottish fishing fleet could be a major force, chasing the shoals of herring through the North Sea but hitting opposition from Anglican League trawlers out of Hull/Grimsby. Not sure about other ports along the coast.
Would give you the chance of small boat actions, armed trawler or small escorts leading boarding actions / cutting out missions. Think of pirates with lewis guns.
RN vessels would mostly be too big for coastal actions, although you could consider a ship's launch or whaler sneaking into a small harbour to cut out moored freighters etc. or land a raiding party of RMs.
As for the new Wolsley helmets etc, there are lots of colonial bases that could launch similar naval raids, possibly just to pick up vital supples from "opposition" bases. (Crikey Jeeves - the mess is almost out of angostura bitters, better see if we can get some from....)
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I'd hate to see VBCW just discussed on the http://vbcf.freeforums.org/index.php site; no one has a monopoly on the idea.
The colonial kit would work well for troops returning from India et al to support Edward or as ex-colonial forces forming themselves into a loyalist militia in support of the crown. Alternatively, it could just be Local Defence Volunteers wearing whatever "soldierly" kit they could find.
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I'm thinking of using the adapted rules from LOTOW for vbcw, plus bring in a few weapons from LOTOW that didn't make the cut, secondly limit the warband sizes and have a set limit of 1 leader and five minor heroes max, perhaps allow the native forces to have a slightly bigger max size o compensate for lack of technological prowess.
What miniatures would be used apart from the obvious foundry and copplestone, could Zulu war stuff be used?
What makes vbcw interesting is you can use pretty much any force to fight any battle, i'd love to do an updated darkest africa with lloyd carriers and armoured cars versus hordes of natives in jungle ambushes, taking a leaf from the Maori wars perhaps have mni forts for skirmishes?
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I had an idea way back when, of doing a sort of ladder campaign of sorts, with the centre point being an attempt to smuggle guns through a small dock and out of town, with the local 'flying squad' attempting to stop it.
If the Police lose then the 'insurgents' are able to operate with better weapons and develop the insurgency. Army unit gets called in to support police. If the 'Rebels' lose then they have to source weapons by raiding a rural police station, or TA barracks, while relying on their existing few shotguns and pistols.
As each game moves up or down the ladder, the situation changes and you get to filter in different items as your campaign progresses. Ultimately either the rebels liberate the area, or the Police/Army stamp out the insurgents. Your next campaign begins from there, with either the insurgents going on to liberate an adjoining area, or the Police/Army have to face another fresh insurgency somewhere else.
The idea being that you could play your first game with just a handful of figures, then expanding your forces after that as quick as you can buy and paint them.
Even if you dive right into VBCW 'in the here and now', there are still quiet areas where you could begin such a campaign and then join the mainstream of events when your collection has grown.
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Plastics are nice for conversions and I would probably go with Warlord Brits as they got helmets separate, so you don't have to use them and helps with making a unit more civilian looking.
The Warlord Brits are excellent for this, especially for vehicle crew. Both of those in the vehicle are just that - the one on top is a regular mini -a choirmaster for my AL boys choir.
(http://6milphil.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/dscf3690.jpg)
Maybe I might be in a minority, but I get a lot of pleasure out of seeing 'foreign' perceptions of the British, so what you do not know, make it up.
Quite, VBCW isn't as realsitic as some might think, you could watch a couple of episodes of Jeeves & Wooster (which can be found on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPLa5rYzJj4 ) and a couple of old films and have the same source references that all the Brits are using.
Tally Ho!
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Phil, that Anglican juggernaut is amazing! lol ;D lol
VBCW isn't really a thing over here, but I do like the ideas it gives me for Pulp games sometimes. Plus VBCW probably has the funniest AAR's on average among all wargame types. :D
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How would Perry miniatures desert rates fit? is the uniform too late/modern? i'm tempted to do a few squads in wolsely helmets as part of some colonial police force-style detachment.
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Phil, that Anglican juggernaut is amazing! lol ;D lol
Glad you like it mate, someone else made a mobile altar too. 8)
How would Perry miniatures desert rats fit? is the uniform too late/modern? i'm tempted to do a few squads in wolsely helmets as part of some colonial police force-style detachment.
I think some has used those before as "Blackshorts". I wouldn't worry about the uniform, IMHO total historical accuracy for a "what-if?" is a non-starter.
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I saw those blackshorts, they somewhat inspired me as I never really looked at Perry's stuff before.
Would universal carriers be too early? what kind of armoured units would be usable in an African/tropical/jungle setting? maybe the carden lloyd? does empress do a covered version? I'm thinking a mix of tankettes, armoured cars for speed and carriers.
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'Historically' speaking '38 webbing, Universal Carriers and such are too early (1940 being the key year for both), but as I like to think that war can either speed up the introduction of items, or stop them altogether, all bets are off.
Britain did not use the 'covered' Carden-Loyds, but then again it is hardly rocket science to make and fit covers and indeed some might have found their way back here from their original owners.
If you can create a reason for your force to have them, then generally speaking you're golden. :)
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I could definitely see a use, from all the photos i've seen, CL's with covering were quite popular for jungle engagements. I'm starting to think the historically accurate angle to vbcw is stifling me slightly.
As much as I want to keep it 38 or before ww2 had all the best/interesting innovations, i'd like to think that like the SCW the vbcw serves as a test-bed for new technologies that otherwise would be saved/not seriously considered until the war.
That and with it being various factions with various resources, things that would never be taken seriously/be considered too niche could find new use in giving factions that slight edge, where on a 'proper' battlefield they soon be too impractical.
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Britain did not use the 'covered' Carden-Loyds, but then again it is hardly rocket science to make and fit covers
But since we are on an alternate history, wouldn't it be more down to individual commanders - David Stirling, Scot Lewes etc.
For VBCW, things like the Blacker Bombard, Smith Gun, or Northover Projector are ideal - low-tech, Heath-Robinson style (and the Blackers date to the 1930s anyway), so maybe a CL carrier with a canvas tilt isn't really that far-fetched.
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I'm starting to think the historically accurate angle to vbcw is stifling me slightly.
But since we are on an alternate history, wouldn't it be more down to individual commanders - David Stirling, Scot Lewes etc.
For VBCW, things like the Blacker Bombard, Smith Gun, or Northover Projector are ideal - low-tech, Heath-Robinson style (and the Blackers date to the 1930s anyway), so maybe a CL carrier with a canvas tilt isn't really that far-fetched.
CLs did have canvas tilts, we're talking about the 'steel hoods' on export models. ;)
While I frown at 'silliness', you can't ignore 'possibilities' either. A lot of imaginative people were stifled by unimaginative superiors and you can only wonder at what might have been, had they gotten a free hand in a situation like VBCW. I have argued in the past for an earlier introduction of the Sten gun, or a 'sten-like' weapon based on the MP-18 rather than the MP-40, or indeed any Interwar sub-machine gun.
Okay German-supplied Panzer IVs and things like that would spoil it if I was involved in VBCW, but less imposing changes do not give anyone an advantage and allow you to include figures and vehicles that would otherwise be barred on the basis of 'historiosity'.
Looking ahead to 1940, the British Army armoured units made-do with trucks fitted with machine guns, not unlike the LRDG ones used a short time later in the desert... there is no reason why this could not be done a couple of years earlier. The Home Guard weapons mentioned and numerous others which did not appear, are also exactly what could be done in VBCW with a man and his tool shed.
Keeping it 'historical' only works until you reach your 'point of departure' from history, after that it's an open field. As far as individual kit goes, the British had been experimenting with various types of battle dress and webbing since the Early '30s, with one which looks very much like that adopted in the '50s being rejected in favour of the 'battle dress' of WWII.
That something "didn't" appear until 1940-42 does not mean it "couldn't"... VBCW is an exercise in imagination, or so I've always thought. :)
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I'm starting to think the historically accurate angle to vbcw is stifling me slightly.
Ignore it. I've seen a couple of folk give up VBCW because others complained about inaccuracy. It's your take on it so choose what you want. ;)
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Ignore it. I've seen a couple of folk give up VBCW because others complained about inaccuracy. It's your take on it so choose what you want. ;)
This.
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Ignore it. I've seen a couple of folk give up VBCW because others complained about inaccuracy. It's your take on it so choose what you want. ;)
Unless I've missed something more recently, I recall it was a case of a vocal minority trying to push their 'vision' on everyone else. ::)
Indeed though, unless such folk are willing to buy the figures, paint them and post them to me, all free of charge, I have always reserved the right to do anything how I want to do it.
;)
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Exactly.
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I find it quite odd that anyone would bother trying to lay down the law on a Fantasy game.
For me the whole point of this system is to use what you already have in your collection,and to make the odd thing to change the pace and direction of your game.
I personally use a lot of WW1 vehicles(only because I have a few lol)I also use a lot of bespoke cereal packet based models to bolster the feel of the game,mainly ships,But I'm also trying to fit in an airship to have a flying objective that hangs around more than a plane .
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I find it quite odd that anyone would bother trying to lay down the law on a Fantasy game.
You'd think so, but it is the ideal situation to do it, no pesky real history for anyone to throw back at you. I considered that the mind-set was something like "It wasn't my idea, but you're soon going to think that it was".
;)
I like a fair bit of historical basis and if anyone asks for some, I'll offer what I know. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the limits that other people have stretched their hobby to though, nor do I think VBCW suffers for it in any way. I also get a lot of satisfaction that despite the all the naysayers, it's still going strong.
:D
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The more I read into, the surer I am just look at the British ordnance board, it disapproved of the bolt action rifle and attempts to succeed it as it thought soldiers ''would expend ammunition too quickly'', a legit concern for a general that has to manage supply trains, while in VBCW a rapid firing smg would seem like a Godsend to the unlucky local volunteer attempting to see off 20 black shirt.
I'm wondering what other weapons might get a new lease of life in a battlefield were innovation is King(but hopefully not the fascist kind).
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There was quite a gulf between what generals wanted and what the troops wanted throughout the '30s (and indeed at all times to a point). The whole process of mechanisation was a tug of war between 'traditionalists' and soldiers who wanted to learn a useful mechanically related trade, rather than 'horse-care' ones, in a world where they were fast becoming scarce.
The ammo expenditure question plagued the army right up to the introduction of the SA80 and I presume even now soldiers have to 'pick up their brass' on the range, so the cartridge cases can be recycled. It was more a concern of MoD 'bean counters' than generals though. Nevertheless interdicting enemy supplies is always useful, if they can't shoot, what can they do?
The answer is probably in Jp's 'rural protestors' thread. ;)