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Miniatures Adventure => Pulp => Triumph & Tragedy => Topic started by: Atheling on February 05, 2015, 10:06:17 AM
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Hi,
I've had one of my bright ideas again!! To make use of the Empress miniatures range and to keep it all at a skirmish level i've decided to delve into the Eighth Cape War in South Africa.
Whilst I'm waiting for some literature to arrive I was rather hoping that someone could help me with the Special Rules for both the Brits and the Xhosa?
I understand that a lot of this particular war was fought in quite dense foliage so rules for the Brits being a bit skittish may well be a good thing?
Also, what Special Rules might the Xhosa have? It might be just a little too convenient to just give them the attributes of the Zulu Nation methinks.
Thanks,
Darrell.
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Good call. You have avoided the trap that was Chelmsford's undoing - the belief that the Xhosa and the Zulu fought in the same way.
Agree on nervous Brits. Some encounters were fought in true forest foliage in the Amatola mountains (used as a refuge for the Xhosa), but even the "open" terrain in the Eastern Cape is somewhat dense woodland thicket and scrub (Google "Albany thicket"). I would think the rules should reflect the Xhosa ability to strike and "melt away" very quickly.
Am interested in what figures are you planning to use for the Xhosa? And the Mfengu? And the Provincials - CMR etc? (Boers and Brit regulars seem well enough covered in 28mm)?
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I've been interested in this conflict myself. It's been at the back of my mind though. British regulars are sorted, hadn't even started thinking what I'd use for the Xhosa.. ;)
I was hoping to find a use for all the jungle I'll be making later in the year. ;)
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Good call. You have avoided the trap that was Chelmsford's undoing - the belief that the Xhosa and the Zulu fought in the same way.
I'd make a great Late Victorian General..... in retrospect lol
Agree on nervous Brits.
Yeah, but what could I use as a rule? It's kind of got me stumped o_o. Not a particularly difficult feat lol
Some encounters were fought in true forest foliage in the Amatola mountains (used as a refuge for the Xhosa), but even the "open" terrain in the Eastern Cape is somewhat dense woodland thicket and scrub (Google "Albany thicket").
I got some good pics from Google so thanks 8) .
Am interested in what figures are you planning to use for the Xhosa? And the Mfengu? And the Provincials - CMR etc? (Boers and Brit regulars seem well enough covered in 28mm)?
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I was looking at the re-vamped Xhosa from First Corp (Curteys Miniatures):
http://www.1stcorps.co.uk/buy-online/c/1st-corps-figures/19th-century/cape-wars/supplement-packs/
...... and as it's only a skirmish thing I'm looking at possibly converting some of the Copplestone Ngoni Warriors:
http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/range.php?range=DA
After looking at the pics of the Brits on google i'm now unsure if the Empress range would do??
Darrell.
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Pics of Xhosa:
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Now Terrain:
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I think there are articles you can take a look at on wargames illustrated pages.
aside from First Corps I think an aussie company also made Xhosa, castaway or some such.
I am funnily enough converting the first corps infantry to be used for Maori wars and have used of all things Warlord Tam O Shanter heads on the bodies.
The only thing different is the webbing as the Brits in Africa seem to have used belly pouches for ammo.
Rules wise I would take a look at French Indian wars rules such as this very ground or even Muskets and Tomahawks. Used both and they work for Maori wars very well also used former for warfare in Brazil, again work well for ambush type game sand irregular warfare
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The only thing different is the webbing as the Brits in Africa seem to have used belly pouches for ammo.
I think I can safely overlook that one..... imagine converting the mini's!!?? Cut, putty, cut, putty... pray it looks OK lol
Rules wise I would take a look at French Indian wars rules such as this very ground or even Muskets and Tomahawks. Used both and they work for Maori wars very well also used former for warfare in Brazil, again work well for ambush type game sand irregular warfare
That's not a bad idea but I do like Triumph and Tragedy for it's quirkiness.
Darrell.
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After looking at the pics of the Brits on google i'm now unsure if the Empress range would do??
If you want to use your Zulu War Brits then you want the 9th Cape Frontier War, rather than the 8th.
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If you want to use your Zulu War Brits then you want the 9th Cape Frontier War, rather than the 8th.
Oh..... lol lol
Whoopzeeee......
Darrell.
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The scene on the cover of this Osprey book is a representation of Brits in the 9th War...
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/20/163_05_02_15_2_33_09.jpg)
I think the Empress figures would be fine. Their uniforms got pretty messed up by the rough terrain, so you can go to town making them look scruffy too, if you feel that way inclined (the Warlord plastics would be good for this, some heads already come with straw hats instead of helmets).
The famous sketches of the 24th looking like ragged scarecrows that you see in a lot of books on the Zulu War were actually drawn during the 9th Frontier War.
Edit: Oh, and by the time of the 9th War, many of the Xhosa (particularly the Ngqika) were dressed almost entirely in European-style clothing, so you could probably find some figures in the Darkest Africa range that could be pressed into service. These fellas spring to mind...
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/20/163_05_02_15_2_48_11.jpg)
They could be Xhosa-ed up a bit if you wanted, by adding some feathers on their heads and such, but they'd probably do as they are.
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So......
We've got the Foundry pack above.... what about these other packs from first Foundry and then North Star Plynkes {bearing in mind that two of the North Star packs are riflemen)?:
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I'm no expert, but I think they'd do. Not sure if they'd have modern rifles, more likely muzzle-loaders. But that's a little thing you can easily overlook unless you are an absolute stickler. You might want to add a few embelishments, perhaps the odd fellow with a few back-up spears and such. And though the use of shields had for the main part ended by this time, a sprinkling of them would give them a bit more of a Xhosa character. They were reported as being used, and illustrations show a fair number of them, even when engaged in a long-range gun skirmish with the Brits.
Besides, Xhosa shields are cool...
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/20/163_05_02_15_3_15_58.jpg)
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I'm no expert, but I think they'd do. Not sure if they'd have modern rifles, more likely muzzle-loaders.
Possibly the (very) odd captured Henry Martini? I may include one pack from NS just to add some slight variation.
But that's a little thing you can easily overlook unless you are an absolute stickler. You might want to add a few embelishments, perhaps the odd fellow with a few back-up spears and such.
Ah, that's interesting, by this do you mean carrying them in hand or in a case like the Empress Native Horse? Or is this a question that is wildly up for debate?
And though the use of shields had for the main part ended by this time, a sprinkling of them would give them a bit more of a Xhosa character. They were reported as being used, and illustrations show a fair number of them, even when engaged in a long-range gun skirmish with the Brits.
I'll probably order some shields from NS then. Thnat way they can be used as markers if needed or added to the warriors (again, if needed).
Besides, Xhosa shields are cool...
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/20/163_05_02_15_3_15_58.jpg)
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indeed :)
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Oh..... lol lol
Whoopzeeee......
Darrell.
You threw me too I was thinking their maori war brits ;D
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Possibly the (very) odd captured Henry Martini? I may include one pack from NS just to add some slight variation.
Yeah, that would be one way to justify them. But I don't think there were any mass slaughters so as to make them as commonplace as they may have been among the Zulu. Your fellow gamers would have to be very picky to give you grief over this. I would politely ask them to leave, or at the very least not let them have any cake. :)
Ah, that's interesting, by this do you mean carrying them in hand or in a case like the Empress Native Horse? Or is this a question that is wildly up for debate?
I've not seen any images of Xhosa using spear quivers. I think that's more of a Basotho thing. I was thinking more of a bunch carried in the hands. The Xhosa were always more fond of skirmishing than getting stuck in Zulu-style, and pre-gunpowder warfare was generally conducted with a bunch of throwing spears carried in the left hand and thrown with the right (with one saved as a melee weapon for when the rest run out). There is an image from one of the earlier wars of a couple of spears (or possibly simply long sticks) being held in the left hand and employed as kind of bipod or musket rest. That's another possible idea you could toy with.
I'll probably order some shields from NS then. Thnat way they can be used as markers if needed or added to the warriors (again, if needed).
Note that the typical Xhosa shield has a single row of hide strips, rather than double row common with other Nguni peoples who adopted the Natal-type shield.
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Pics of Xhosa:
The second pic is a famous (in local art history circles ;) ) Baines painting entitled "The Loyal Fingo" (i.e. Mfengu) - a very good study of a Mfengu irregular fighting for the British. Dont know the third one, but would think that it also depicts a pro-British Mfengu recruit.
Rules wise I would take a look at French Indian wars rules such as this very ground or even Muskets and Tomahawks. Used both and they work for Maori wars very well also used former for warfare in Brazil, again work well for ambush type game sand irregular warfare
Agree on using Muskets and Tomahawks - fun and fast ruleset, good management of spotting/hidden units, and plenty of scope for quirky Officer Traits and narrative game elements... Muskets and Assegaais (or more accurately Muskets & Izintshuntshe :) ) works for me... And the unit types/traits in M&T can easily be adapted to reflect the differences in troop quality on all sides of the Cape Wars - burgher commandos, provincials, civilians, irregulars, etc...
Thanks for all the figure recommendations - how do the 1st Corp figures match up with the Foundry and North Star (and Empress) ? I was under the impression they are fairly small?
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The second pic is a famous (in local art history circles ;) ) Baines painting entitled "The Loyal Fingo" (i.e. Mfengu) - a very good study of a Mfengu irregular fighting for the British. Dont know the third one, but would think that it also depicts a pro-British Mfengu recruit.
Thanks for pointing that out 8).
Agree on using Muskets and Tomahawks - fun and fast ruleset, good management of spotting/hidden units, and plenty of scope for quirky Officer Traits and narrative game elements... Muskets and Assegaais (or more accurately Muskets & Izintshuntshe :) ) works for me... And the unit types/traits in M&T can easily be adapted to reflect the differences in troop quality on all sides of the Cape Wars - burgher commandos, provincials, civilians, irregulars, etc...
I'll give it some more consideration..... I don't actually own a copy but that can easily be remedied!
Thanks for all the figure recommendations - how do the 1st Corp figures match up with the Foundry and North Star (and Empress) ? I was under the impression they are fairly small? Of course, it would mean moving the thread to the Colonial Section if I decide on those rules :)
They are. But, if I'm doing the 9th Cape War I can use the Foundry and north Star stuff (as in above post). They are more contemporary for the war it seems.
Darrell.
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I think the folks recommending rules have missed the point slightly, misunderstood the question, and also failed to notice what board this is.
I'm fairly sure Atheling has already picked T&T as his preferred ruleset, or he wouldn't have posted his thread here. I think he was interested in ideas for special rules for that set to reflect the conflict, not asking what rules set to use.
Having said that, Song of Drums and Tomahawks does sound interesting. I have the Fantasy and Napoleonic versions. I had toyed with the idea of using the latter for small colonial skirmishes one day but never did it. Tomahawks sounds like a more suitable version of 'songs' to play with, especially if your games are set in the rifled musket era.
Rather than imposing a general skittishness on the British troops, you might want to use some event cards that each player can play a limited number of during the game. These can add a bit of fun to T&T games. One could involve a bout of nervousness. That way the Xhosa can impose panic on specific units for a limited time without hamstringing the general effectiveness of the British troops.
One incident involved a British patrol being ambushed in dense terrain, and the men panicked when their officer was shot in the face at point-blank range, and the officer sent to replace him suffered a similar fate. The native levies bolted, taking some redcoats with them, and order was only restored when a sergeant took over and swore at the men until they recovered their calm. :)
(You could probably make a few separate event cards out of all of that.)
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I think the folks recommending rules have missed the point slightly, misunderstood the question, and also failed to notice what board this is.
I'm fairly sure Atheling has already picked T&T as his preferred ruleset, or he wouldn't have posted his thread here. I think he was interested in ideas for special rules for that set to reflect the conflict, not asking what rules set to use.
Sure. o_o
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Yup Guilty, hadn't noticed the board ;D mia culpa :)
The 1st corps figures are small, Polynikes gave a comparison with some for me a while back on just same question.
I did chop off heads and add Warlord heads (not for this period mind you) and it makes them closer and oddly enough they suffer form large hand syndrome, but the bigger heads seem to fit in better ;D
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I think the folks recommending rules have missed the point slightly, misunderstood the question, and also failed to notice what board this is.
I'm fairly sure Atheling has already picked T&T as his preferred ruleset, or he wouldn't have posted his thread here. I think he was interested in ideas for special rules for that set to reflect the conflict, not asking what rules set to use.
This is very true :) .
Having said that, Song of Drums and Tomahawks does sound interesting. I have the Fantasy and Napoleonic versions. I had toyed with the idea of using the latter for small colonial skirmishes one day but never did it. Tomahawks sounds like a more suitable version of 'songs' to play with, especially if your games are set in the rifled musket era.
I'll check out the rules anyway, I'm sure someone will have a copy I can have a look at.
Rather than imposing a general skittishness on the British troops, you might want to use some event cards that each player can play a limited number of during the game. These can add a bit of fun to T&T games. One could involve a bout of nervousness. That way the Xhosa can impose panic on specific units for a limited time without hamstringing the general effectiveness of the British troops.
One incident involved a British patrol being ambushed in dense terrain, and the men panicked when their officer was shot in the face at point-blank range, and the officer sent to replace him suffered a similar fate. The native levies bolted, taking some redcoats with them, and order was only restored when a sergeant took over and swore at the men until they recovered their calm. :)
Some good ideas here, thenks again Plynkes 8). I think a concealment card or rule is going to be the order of the day.
[You could probably make a few separate event cards out of all of that.[/quote]
When I've worked out Picassa lol Photoshop won't run on my new laptop!!! That was money well spent!! :-[ :'(
Darrell.
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Hi Darrell,
With regards Skittish morale, we had a similar problem with EIC troops in the first Sikh War, especially at battles like Moodki. You need a mechanism that does not allow you to know what the troops reaction is going to be to any given morale test. I am not familiar with the morale rules in T&T but most morale rules work with the troop classification, ie elite, regular and poor etc etc.
Now what we did was simply roll a d6 before any morale test allocating the classification of the troops numbers on the d6 so for example 1 and 2 equals poor, 3 and 4 equals regular and on and on. The result of the d6 roll gave us the morale those troops would use for that particular morale test.
It's very simple to do a lot simpler than trying to explain it lol. Anyway it adds a certain amount of fog of war because the player really doesn't know how his troops will react, they could stand and fight like elites or run away like militia.
Hope this is of some help.
Jeff
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Hi Darrell,
With regards Skittish morale, we had a similar problem with EIC troops in the first Sikh War, especially at battles like Moodki. You need a mechanism that does not allow you to know what the troops reaction is going to be to any given morale test. I am not familiar with the morale rules in T&T but most morale rules work with the troop classification, ie elite, regular and poor etc etc.
Now what we did was simply roll a d6 before any morale test allocating the classification of the troops numbers on the d6 so for example 1 and 2 equals poor, 3 and 4 equals regular and on and on. The result of the d6 roll gave us the morale those troops would use for that particular morale test.
It's very simple to do a lot simpler than trying to explain it lol. Anyway it adds a certain amount of fog of war because the player really doesn't know how his troops will react, they could stand and fight like elites or run away like militia.
Hope this is of some help.
Jeff
Sounds good, nice and simple..... and fun!
Darrell.
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Hi Darrel,
will think of Xhosa special rules.
- as for the vervous Brits rule I suggest that the Xhosa always have the edge in the activation phase when both units have the same Quality rating
- or let the Xhosa player decide who can activate first when both units have the same quality rating. Believe me, that can be very exciting.
And thanks for this inspiring nervous Brits trait. Good one.
And thanks Plynkes reminding the people that this is the Triumph+Tragedy Forum. Thanks mate :)
And Darrel. PM sent.
regards
Björn
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Hi Darrel,
will think of Xhosa special rules.
- as for the vervous Brits rule I suggest that the Xhosa always have the edge in the activation phase when both units have the same Quality rating
- or let the Xhosa player decide who can activate first when both units have the same quality rating. Believe me, that can be very exciting.
And thanks for this inspiring nervous Brits trait. Good one.
And thanks Plynkes reminding the people that this is the Triumph+Tragedy Forum. Thanks mate :)
And Darrel. PM sent.
regards
Björn
Thanks 8)
PM received and e-mail sent.
hope to hear from you soon.
Darrell