Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => VSF Adventures => Topic started by: Ironclad Paul on February 22, 2015, 12:32:12 PM
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Hi, Thought I'd post for info (and maybe inspiration?) some of the creations my friend Dave and myself made around 20 years ago, mostly due to the influence of Ironclads and Ether flyers by Frank Chadwick (who was my hero at the time and could do no wrong). But first a little story to set the scene for the pictures..
"In 1889 there were few princes of mars who could have realised that what started as a small fleet review to show the city population the strength of the martian air fleets, would end with the British showing who was really in charge ! The martian city with its stately canal was quiet on that morning with few about (pic1) then at the appointed time, with great pomp and band playing, the great fleet of martian galleons passed slowly overhead. almost blotting out the sun! (pics 2-4)
Pride of place was the princes new sky galleon of the line the 'Great Nelsaan', all 100 guns of her! A true sky galleon of the line!
But then, after their passing, a new and unexpected fleet of noisy droning Earth gunboats and airships passed over, making the princes and the people afraid, and most cowered in their homes until they had passed. (Pics 5) Then more swift gunboats appeared with the now well known British flag flying proudly.(pic 6) There was also activity down on the canal, but few noticed with the droning overhead..
Few were there that day who would forget the final flypast by the monstrous floating flagship of the British space fleet...The Duke of York, followed serenely by the Imperial Airways Rigid 'Brittanic' with the attendant escort of Aphids.
Its the beginning of the end, the martian princes all agreed, but we wont go quietly, of course".
so, these fleets are all inspired by space 1889 and scratchbuilt in polyfoam and cardboard. the city is on 2 inch hexes. Over the years I have played on 5"/3"/6" hexes until finally arriving at 2 inch (currently). the modular stands have height functionality but I gave that up years ago as an unnecessary complexity. simplicity is the name of the game these days. sadly I havnt used the space 1889 rules (ironclads and ether flyers) for a decade or so but home grown rules always keep me busy with the odd campaign now and then.
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The sound you heard was my jaw hitting the floor. :o
Sorry, nothing else coming at the moment.
Doug
Edit: Of course, took me five minutes to admire, send a note to mates to have a look, admire some more, shake myself out enough to remember the 'nef sticky, 'Oh, I should look as he may have already posted this there....'
OMG! 28mm! I've not noticed in all this time!
*ahem* This review should be preserved, or, at least, a link, in same sticky.
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Awe inspiring :o
Having looked at the pics before I read, I was so hoping to find those minis commercially available. Alas it is better for my wallet that they are not!
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Aw, Bill, after I saw them, your wallet would be in no danger, just your paint queue. lol
Doug
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:o I can feel the drum of the engines as they pass over! Indeed a site to behold! Well done!!!
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Very impressive :)
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Quite a collection, very nice modelling. I had to smile with your opinion about Chadwick early on. Hmm, I have a bunch of foam board, someday I may try something like your fleet, lbeit on a much smaller scale.
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Just WOW...
:o
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Wow, very impressive fleet! Someday I'll build some airships but it will never be as big as this collection!
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:-*
Superb collection, absolutely awe inspiring.
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Amazing collection of figures and scenery.
Story in the op is neat as well.
:o
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Thanks for the kind comments chaps! I suppose we did get a bit carried away back then. It was a bit of an arms race for me and Dave, trying to outbuild each other. The airships were mostly my own personal obsession and are mostly French, to the exclusion of most french gunboats which never got built. Funny thing is most of the french airships in that picture are really historical designs, some of which had very full real careers in ww1.
I did start out in 1/1200 scale but found it too small for gunboats to be handled effectively. The very smallest gunboats in these pictures are about an inch long, the majority are about 3 inch or so. A big aspect of this whole game was the naval ships and to me 1/600 scale was great for ironclads in this period, Though the naval side doesn't quite seem appropriate on this forum so I only showed the flyers. There is always more inspiration for flyers coming all the time so I don't think I'm over it yet..
Also, apologies for starting a new thread but I had already posted my 28mm flyers on that sticky as it seemed mostly that was where they were supposed to be (big flyers). This seemed a little 'different' maybe, cheers anyway, hope it inspires others to go for it!
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...
Also, apologies for starting a new thread but I had already posted my 28mm flyers on that sticky as it seemed mostly that was where they were supposed to be (big flyers). This seemed a little 'different' maybe, cheers anyway, hope it inspires others to go for it!
I refuse! It's WORTH a separate thread!
I just meant it needed to be in the sticky AS WELL. What part of 'all things airbourne.' confuses you? lol
So, I added that link. (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=9801.msg928830#msg928830)
Doug
Edit: And I'm JUST getting around to asking about your personal rules. Not asking for a copy; the pile of playtest waiting even a first read is a continuing embarassment... *missing blush emoticon*
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We need a sticky on BIG flyers. Unfortunately Jimbibbly's megalomaniac plnas would mean him taking over the entire thread ;)
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That's an amazing collection of flyers. Did you gentlemen fight with them? I have Cloudships of Mars, but only bought it for the period detail (and to accompany the rest of my Space 1889 collection - I have an unfortunate tendency to be a completist).
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Yes, in the early years when we first made them we often had games with maybe half dozen ships each weekly, and occasionally campaigns lasting months or so. But as the years pass and other projects and periods appear they were played less often. So now I get them out only once a year or so. They have survived quite well considering the older ones are pushing 20 years old and they are just stored in a heap in the box.
My own rules have persevered for 10 or so years and still haven't been bettered (I'm told) though I have tried on occasion. They were a version of my spaceship rules which have also lasted. I did a projection of this 1889 background forward I nto the Edwardian period for my spaceships and for a while they took over (spacefleet 1899) though they too had their day. Such is the way with wargamers. Sometime I may post the Edwardian ether space fleets too, though not sure this forum is quite appropriate (There are even more of them o_o)
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Again, have to say they'll 'fly' here. Leviathans would fall to a similar restriction, save a) no other thread would be more specific, b) we're VSF'ers, we'd 'adjust' them to being created by before-their-time mad scientists... :D
Again, not asking for the actual rules, but could you give an idea of what you're using? Compare or contrast is usually good, and easy. 'I tried Aeronef, but wanted altitude bands...' gave me a lot of information in another thread.
Doug
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Truly impressive! :o :-*
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The rules I use have a pretty unique damage system which was inspired by actual damage recording methods on real warships, where the outline of the ship is divided into 'compartments' and they are marked graphically with damage which occurs. Not exactly like other rules where you cross off rows of boxes or count down points. So it is not comparable to any other rules I can think of. The moving and shooting parts are basic usual stuff but the overall aim is simplicity and it just manages that. Ironically, it wouldn't be good for really big fleet battles though, any system with record keeping is probably not best suited for really big battles in a short time.
As I mentioned before, height bands are fascinating as an idea but a bit duff and dull in actuality, if you like to avoid each other's ships in a game and drag it out as long as possible it's just the ticket though.
There is a set of rules out there for every wargamer, it's finding the ones you like that's the problem, and if you can't then making your own can be a satisfying and frustrating experience everyone should have a go at. Give it a try!
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Thanks so much!
Our intrepid band is all about fiddling with rules, though more from fuzzy memory than adventurous experimentation... lol
I have a vision of the diagrams of shot damage in some of my books, especially of Jutland. Sounds fascinating, and way more involved than I'd go for, and my beloved Full Thrust has it's slowest part when assigning damage to systems.
That part in Aeronef is quite simple and quick.
Avoidance could well be a problem altitude restrictions, now that I cogitate, but as with so many other things, might be ameliorated by scenario requirements.
'Sure, you're safe; safely ineffective and the loser.' ;)
Doug
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Here are a few more shots of the bigger ships, the airships are my own personal favourites but most of the detail is underneath.
The last pic is the Russian 1889 Black sea fleet with a small flyer on patrol, ships are 1/600 scale too.
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They are a visual treat. Thanks for posting.
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Truly eye candy! Continued stunning colors on the digs!
Just have to ask: Did any Star Wars toys lose their lives in the production of the Duke of York?
Doug
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thanks for the kind comments, there arent any toy or kit parts on duke of York, it's all foam and cardboard with cocktail sticks for masts and struts. The Brittanic was based on a paper cut out model of the R100 with extra superstructure added.
The airships are mostly foam too, although 'speiss' is folded paper (the buff coloured rigid) and 'Tissandier' is rolled card with conical ends (the big blue semi rigid).
The teeny airship is 'nulli secundus' the first British military dirigible and I think it's cute, Though not much use militarily. The 120 gun 'sky galleon of the line' (Nelsaan) is a design I made from my own drawings, I can post the drawings too (if anyone is interested)
Anyway, if I've inspired anyone else to go make their own models then I'd be very pleased.
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...there arent any toy or kit parts on duke of York, it's all foam and cardboard with cocktail sticks for masts and struts...
Good man! I've some Micro Machines SW Desert Skiffs with the fore section looking rather like your work. Did START a conversion...
Anyway, if I've inspired anyone else to go make their own models then I'd be very pleased.
I've no need for inspiration; you may succeed in shaming me into finishing something, though... ::)
Now, about the Aerial Depot made from a 1/1200 inverted WWII carrier...
Doug
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Space 1889 is great. I love your vessels. The black and white striped one takes my breath away. Very well done!
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Thanks, The black and white stripey ship was my attempt at a sailing 'ship of the line' and was based upon these drawings I did below (to get my head around the design)
Of course it was made for GDW 'cloudships and gunboats' rules and I think had a hull size of 60 with 32 rod guns, 80 heavy guns and 8 light guns. and an armour value of 2, which means that it would very quickly swat any combined fleets of smaller ships of equal build points, that was a slight failing of the build system, size did matter but if you didnt build these monsters you would never know. anyway I had fun doing the drawing and then building the model, there was a sister ship which never got finished and if you look in the storage box picture you'll see her unfinished sister, just carved foam and cocktail sticks with lines drawn on, These models are quite rough when you get microscopically close but I was never that bothered as I just wanted to make and play, quality always came second to quantity and having fun of course (there isnt enough time to do everything I want to do, so something has to slip). storing them in boxes can be fun in itself and here are a few 'boxed' pics as to my mind you rarely get to see where they spend most of their lives and everyone boxes things differently, in my experience.
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A very impressive collection of scratch builds. If only these were available commercially I'd soon be parting with cash. Especially with that british heavy ship, she's a must have.
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Great collection. Thanks for sharing.
Post some pics of your games if you have some.
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Here are a few pics from 2013 of a small campaign run at Barrow in Furness wargames club. it a was fun and I 'slid' up the damage effects so battles were very quick. it means you can have many battles in a night and whip through a campaign.
incidentally, the campaign system I use for 1889 comes from 'space 1889 empires' a module for the 'warp empires' generic system. this was available free on the 'warpspawn' games website. (sorry havnt learned how to insert links yet..will learn) though of course I used my own tactical rules.
The pictures were taken by 'Tel' who played in the campaign and has his own games blog of most of the games he plays in at the club, full write up on the site 'Tels kingdom' www.telskingdom.co.uk (Thank Tel, great pics and fun write-ups, as always)
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You're a bad man showing all these again :D
cheers
James
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I hope showing them has had the desired effect lol and you're now thinking of making your own...
Sorry, but look forward to seeing them when finished. :D
Paul
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What rules did you use for this game?
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These are quite fantastic.
Thank you for posting the images.
Tony
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What rules did you use for this game?
He speaks of his home-brewed on the second page, including how 'They were a version of my spaceship rules which have also lasted.'
I queried him a bit on these on Starfleet 1889 thread, but not to the extent of asking for a copy. ;)
Doug
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I'll have to ask James for a copy
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Chaps, in an odd sort of way both of my current threads are converging simultaneously
The rules I use for the sky galleons are my own creation which are called 'DTS naval'. It stands for dramatic tactical system. I also use a variant of the same system for my generic spaceship games 'DTS space'. Both involve graphical plans of the ships divided into 'compartments' upon which damage is literally (and spectacularly sometimes) marked.
The naval (and flyer) version is only 3 pages of rules so I'm thinking maybe I could scan them with a few pages of flyer plans and just post them here. If you think that would be useful.
They don't exist virtually (eg Ms word), only on old printed sheets.
Anyway, will have a think and put them up later maybe.
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lovely stuff, thanks for showing it :)
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The naval (and flyer) version is only 3 pages of rules so I'm thinking maybe I could scan them with a few pages of flyer plans and just post them here. If you think that would be useful.
They don't exist virtually (eg Ms word), only on old printed sheets.
Anyway, will have a think and put them up later maybe.
Please do scan them. They may be perfect for a project I'm working on :)
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Ok, for what its worth, and as requested, here are my rules. well, DTS naval in its last form from 2002. I should really tidy these up and post them on the free wargame site sometime. Ive scanned the 4 pages of rules as literally that is the format they exist in! I never got round to typing them up properly for some reason and the ones you are looking at were cut and paste versions, and a bit tatty too!
Anyway, also scanned are the ship sheets for a fair few 1889 flyers, mostly designs you may recognise from a well known game, though some are made up and all of the canal boats are made up to suit models I had lying about. Hope it prints ok if anyone decides to have a go.
I used to play on large hexes, 3 inch mostly but bigger too with large ships filling multiple hexes (HMS Warrior fills about three 3" hexes!). The only thing I would point out if anyone tries them out is that when you take a hit, the target owner marks his own damage wherever he fancies on his ship, in the face towards the enemy, and the damage result is marked to cross a whole 'compartment' on the ship (not a system in a compartment). The compartment may contain multiple systems, all suffer the damage effect. Remember the cumulative effect of damage on morale and the ability to float, or fly.
It is (for me anyway) pretty easy to make your own ships up. just draw the outline of your ship and populate it with compartments and systems in the compartments. I do have proper creation guidelines and there is a points system but my heads melting just thinking about how to get that all in presentable order so I probably wont bother. Just have fun with what's there and the concepts maybe.
any questions, just ask.
When I do finally get it all tidied up and put on the free wargame rule site, there are many many pages of naval ship sheets, including ancient galleys, Armada period, napoleonic ships and at least 25 pages of naval ships for the Victorian period and ACW.
I know, it should read 'Dramatic Damage System' but DTS seemed better and it stuck.
Enjoy. (I have for the last 15 years)
maybe someone should put a link in here from the 'Rules' sticky too..
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Great stuff. I'm looking at the possibility of doing similar with 1:200 scratchbuilds ;)
These rules would also work with our 'grand scale' 28mm Martian air fleets if we could work out sensible ways of repesenting altitude with our 28mm nefs and skiffs.
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Love it! :D
cheers
James
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Sorry for resurrecting this old thread. Lovely models. If I may, where are the terrain models from?
Thanks.
Mike D
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You have MY gratitude; after the several queries previous, I missed the above images.
HUGE dopey moi! :o
Thanks IP!!!
Doug
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Hi, sorry have been lapse online these days. The terrain in the 1/600 pictures comprise;
6mm mdf boards with 2" hexes cut and pasted from random model railway grass sheets. The canal is a thin separate piece of hardboard with a paper photocopy of 2" hex grid stuck on then sprayed lightly with blue. The banks are thin white wood strips glued on the canal edges. The boards are 2' x 18"
The buildings are a variety of sources-
Mediterranean flat tops are scratch built in card with texture finish.
Domed buildings are from a boardgame called 'hotel' which has many other great micro buildings too skyscrapers/hotels for modern period. Used to be cheap but now getting scarce.
Some others are aquarium resin castles.
City walls are metal irregular 6mm range which I quite like.
Some red roofed buildings are from a boardgame called 'cathedral' which has some really nice and odd plastic buildings.
Hills are polyfoam and roads cardboard.
Jetties are bases of 'hotel' game buildings.
Red weed is doormat cut up and sprayed red, it gets everywhere after the Martian tripods appear!
Most items were free (card) or very cheap, though as I mentioned the secondhand board games may be priced now.
Here's a shot of two 1889 small boards/campaign games also.
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Paul,
I'm lste to the party, but I must say those are brilliant!
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Wonderful stuff thanks for sharing
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Wow!
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Thanks chaps! Glad they are still providing inspiration hopefully. We did get carried away making them I suppose but it was such fun making them I suppose at the time, whittling away! Thing is, I never ever got through all the official 1889 designs as I kept finding new ones and fan ones, that's probably still going on now!
I haven't fought them against each other much for a while but some did come out last year in support of 15mm European ground troops on Mars. The scale difference didn't seem to matter to me as they are 'high in the sky' and distant from the bigger stuff on the ground, my excuse anyway. ;)
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...The scale difference didn't seem to matter to me as they are 'high in the sky' and distant from the bigger stuff on the ground, my excuse anyway. ;)
Not an excuse!
That's the gospel according to the sainted Major General Tremorden Rederring! :D
Doug
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Ah! found a few not great pics of the aforementioned last game with 15mm Brits on Mars fighting the Cephalid menace out in the deserts of Mars (note red weed).
The Brits advanced firstly with tracked contraptions supported by some clunky steam walkers, the aerial gunboats were there but kept their distance mostly while the ground forces mixed it up with the squiddies.
then rather belatedly the infantry and cavalry caught up with the advance and some lancers can be seen rather cheekily poking a small Cephalid flyer who came too close! the cheek of it. probably rather ineffectual, but dashing of course.
shame I didnt get more pics as there was a lot more going on off camera.
fun though, and a workable mix of scales, I thought.
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Photos are still good - showing off the collection. I like the last photo for the mini story it tells.