Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Andym on February 23, 2015, 04:06:25 PM
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Myself and my brother were at the Model Rail Scotland show on Saturday past. Ever since, I've trawling through model rail forums and tutorials. Its made me realise there's a wealth of stuff out there that would help us all be better terrain/board makers, but its knowing where to find them and the ones that give the best advice.
So this is what I'm hoping this thread will be about. Anybody who finds a tutorial or a walk through and thinks 'I never knew about THAT!' I'm hoping they post a link on this. Be it blogs, websites or even our own beloved LAF, anything that inspires you to go that one step further and try and make your tables better!
I'll start with this. Its a link to a model train website. The stuff on there about building trees, hedges, simple things ( I originally thought were simple, but I'm clearly proven wrong here) like grass, to water effects and buildings. I reckon if I applied this guys theories to my own wargames stuff I could make it waaay better!!
http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/topography.htm (http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/topography.htm)
Edit to mods: I hope I've put this in the right place. The 'How to...' section didn't seem appropriate due to not being full tutorials but links!
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What a great idea.
Having been to Miniature Wonderland in Hamburg last week, I am very inspired by model railway quality standards!
I've always believed wargamers could learn a lot from the love and care (and techniques and materials) railway modellers put into their miniature landscapes.
Then again, for many wargamers, it's still all about the game - a few books for hills and a bit of green baize are quite sufficient.
Not how I see the world - and not what many of us here on LAF aspire to. But for some people, it seems that's what they like...
But building better boards is a great aspiration for my money :)
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exact one learns a lot with railway modellers. my father was one, and I learned a lot by reading the reviews.(loco revues) but it is a bit old, it has had to evolve since my childhood.
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I also think the guys that do the scale model military dioramas have a lot to offer us, although sometimes they can spend TOO ling doing one thing to perfection!
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Great resource Andy!
I dont have anything really to add, I'd just like to see what comes along, but Massive Voodoo has some great tutorials and ideas.
Like using wase electronic waste!
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com.au/2010/01/tutorial-building-base-with-parts-of.html (http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com.au/2010/01/tutorial-building-base-with-parts-of.html)
And realistic Spiderwebs!
http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/tutorial-realistic-spiderwebs.html (http://massivevoodoo.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/tutorial-realistic-spiderwebs.html)
Cheers
Matt
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Found this during the build something process:
http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/nouaillier_a.htm
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Model railway enthusiasts really have some amazing terrain building skills! Lot to be learned from there. I find quite a bit of the ready made stuff for model railways if both of higher quality and cheaper than anything made for wargamers.
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Model railway enthusiasts really have some amazing terrain building skills! Lot to be learned from there. I find quite a bit of the ready made stuff for model railways if both of higher quality and cheaper than anything made for wargamers.
Absolutely! I've taken to buying cheap N-scale buildings from Japan for my Dropzone Commander table. They're waaay cheaper than the resin things offered by Hawk games and usually even cheaper (and certainly a lot better looking) than the laser-cut offerings.
Also, the only source of hobby materials over here is a single model railroad shop, which also offers scale model kits, plasticard, paints etc. So my ideas and purchases are automatically influenced by those sources. I've found some of the scale modeling magazines especially interesting (and I agree; those rivet counters are anal lol ).
I've taken to always browse the isles for anything interesting I can use or repurpose. Too bad they'll be closing down next month. Then it's either the local GW hell store, or the interwebs... :'(
A couple of years ago, I've bought a scale terrain making dvd from a guy who makes dioramas, scale train landscapes, museum pieces, replicas of buildings etc, on which he shows many of his techniques. The results are simply stunning and I've taken many of his tips to heart: David Wright's website (http://www.dovedalemodels.co.uk)
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I have several model railroad books that I use for reference and it's a wonderful area for sourcing tools. :)
One caveat though when looking through railroad pieces and 'how to' guides, remember that they are intended for static displays. Same for dioramas, they aren't intended for gamers to roll dice on or push figures around on.
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One caveat though when looking through railroad pieces and 'how to' guides, remember that they are intended for static displays. Same for dioramas, they aren't intended for gamers to roll dice on or push figures around on.
Exactly. Therefore to me, the ultimate modeling is creating terrain that is both as realistic and visually pleasing as possible, while at the same time being sturdy enough for use in games. And preferably with a functional interior as well.
It's why I've shied away from using foamboard and foam in general so far; I'm not convinced those materials are rugged enough to survive many battles (and still retain their looks). Same goes for cardboard actually (seems like I only trust plastic(ard) and MDF as basic building materials... ::) ).
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Constable-that spiderweb tute is great! Those guys at Voodoo know there stuff!
Von Lucky-Great minds think alike. Thats the same bunch of guys as I posted in the my first post! ;)
I tried using their theories on a test patch of grass. I made a quick and cheap static grass applicator out of a couple of bits of rubbish. Its not electrified so it doesn't make the grass stand directly up on end, but I like it.
Applicator...
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20150224_165540_zpsvrae3bce.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150224_165540_zpsvrae3bce.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20150224_165533_zpsme0tnezi.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150224_165533_zpsme0tnezi.jpg.html)
And here's the results. First I painted and highlighted the ground...
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02-24%2016.57.19_zpstdrtfkto.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02-24%2016.57.19_zpstdrtfkto.jpg.html)
A layer of pva glue...
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02-24%2016.56.50_zpsd7jsretk.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02-24%2016.56.50_zpsd7jsretk.jpg.html)
And this is what I could do with what I had in the house. I'd like maybe different colours of grass to use...
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02-24%2016.56.20_zpsmi7ryw7j.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02-24%2016.56.20_zpsmi7ryw7j.jpg.html)
Definitely room for improvement still!
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Superb thread. I have recently visited a (new to me, but well established) model shop, primarily aimed at rail enthusiasts and have found some excellent products, which cross over well between the two hobbies. My best find so far is a 1/72 windmill by Dapol.
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As a major warning about using a lot of the railroader techniques, there are a lot of them that are extremely, visually impressive but don't hold up for wargaming.
Pay attention to the materials and consider ways to up durability because with gaming terrain, you are going to be handling them a lot unlike a lot of railroad layouts that will largely be untouched in comparison.
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Good point! Well worth remembering SotF!
Heres another great tutorial. Such a small detail but so well done. Corn stalks.
http://www.warfactory.co.uk/wp/2015/01/05/corn-stooks/ (http://www.warfactory.co.uk/wp/2015/01/05/corn-stooks/)
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Good point! Well worth remembering SotF!
Heres another great tutorial. Such a small detail but so well done. Corn stalks.
http://www.warfactory.co.uk/wp/2015/01/05/corn-stooks/ (http://www.warfactory.co.uk/wp/2015/01/05/corn-stooks/)
I'd wasted so much money early on thanks to a hobby store that used to be around, it specialized in trains and had a few things for other use...so many things that looked cool, but did not hold up well there such as some riser hills that pretty much shattered on me mid game...
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Whoops - didn't click on your link or pay attention to the URL.
There really is a rich seam of untapped modelling goodness out there.
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Nae bother Von! i'm hoping people will post their own tutes they've been following!
Got another one here. Its called 'Frocks'. Using sofa foam to build cliffs and mountains. I've used it a couple of times. Its cheap, easy and a good atternative to cork bark. You don't have to use powders to colour them. Watered down paint work well too......
http://members.westnet.com.au/mjbd/html/foam_rocks_-_frocks.html (http://members.westnet.com.au/mjbd/html/foam_rocks_-_frocks.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/geoff_FRock_192_zpssvpw63tp.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/geoff_FRock_192_zpssvpw63tp.jpg.html)
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Holy cow! :o
And just yesterday I was asked to prettify some upholstery foam, which our DM intends to use as rocks (a gorge to be exact) during tomorrow's session.
I was planning on cutting the surface a bit (he already cut the basic shapes) to create some texture and then spraypaint them and add some small patches of flock. But I think I'll hold off on that and will get myself some joint cement/topping coat (whatever that translates to in Dutch) and do it right this weekend...
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Brilliant find Andy...
Going to have to throw away all my cork now... ;)
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Love that link Andy now bookmarked.
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If you get Polyfilla in Belgium Daeothar, its this stuff mate....
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/7EB1F1E0-BF92-437A-BC35-F2E9D217BFF9_zpsufmskx1h.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/7EB1F1E0-BF92-437A-BC35-F2E9D217BFF9_zpsufmskx1h.jpg.html)
Use an old decorators brush to slap it on. The rougher the brush the better.
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Cheers Andy; I think I know which stuff to get now... :)
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Holy cow! :o
And just yesterday I was asked to prettify some upholstery foam, which our DM intends to use as rocks (a gorge to be exact) during tomorrow's session.
I was planning on cutting the surface a bit (he already cut the basic shapes) to create some texture and then spraypaint them and add some small patches of flock. But I think I'll hold off on that and will get myself some joint cement/topping coat (whatever that translates to in Dutch) and do it right this weekend...
Warning!!
If you're using upholstery foam (squishable foam rubber), anything that is even remotely rigid will crack and break over time when picking up the pieces, putting minis on it, etc. Even spray paint will dry crispy and brittle and break when the foam get's compressed a bit (which it will) you'll be constantly having to fix it. Frocks works for model train layouts because it is not being moved about and handled, but wargames terrain is very much the opposite.
Upholstery foam is a fine product, but you've got to stick to flexible materials like acrylic paints and washes. I did a bunch of foam hills using heavy layers of spray paint and spray textured paint.http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2012/08/terrain-tutorial-caverns-and-rocks-fast.html
They look great and are reasonably sturdy, but a few months after I wrote that post I found that the edges crack sometimes. the next batch will be all acrylic paint with just a light dusting of spray paint for highlights and a touch of texture.
You could put it on a very sturdy base and use alot of filler, but I think using joint cement on upholstery foam for miniature gaming terrain is asking for trouble.
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The trick to it Eilif is the plaster you use. The finishing skim I use is fairly runny and if you use an old brush and squidge it in, it soaks partially in. You might find you were using some sort of hole filler which doesn't take as well.
I've been copying the frock method for a couple of years now and the pieces have kicked around my brothers garage with no damage mate!
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Thanks, good To know. Maybe I'll give it a shot. I've promised my buddy some cliffs in April and I've salvaged some really thick pieces of foam from old couches.
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I'd love to see the results mate!
Here's another tutorial. This time its for sculpting......
http://mandragoreminiatures.free.fr/home.htm (http://mandragoreminiatures.free.fr/home.htm)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/17web_zpsldciz8ij.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/17web_zpsldciz8ij.jpg.html)
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Great ideas in this thread!!
Another great tutorial (IMHO). I'm very tempted to start a winter game board ::)
http://www.wargamingtradecraft.com/2015/01/creating-snow-and-ice.html (http://www.wargamingtradecraft.com/2015/01/creating-snow-and-ice.html)
And another one with a good tip to keep your glue in good conditions:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Prevent-Super-Glue-from-Drying/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Prevent-Super-Glue-from-Drying/)
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That super glue idea is pretty ingenious and cheap!
I tend to use it pretty quickly, but I've had a few bottles go bad in my time. I bet it would work with a larger jar and more rice for Gorilla Glue which is also moisture activated and tends to go bad over time.
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Now that there's a place to pin these things, I keep bumping into great pages:
http://gothamcitysub.com/
(http://www.gothamcitysub.com/pics/VS2.jpg)
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I believe that the skills that Model Railway Modellers use are in the main inter-changeable with wargaming. I regularly browse and pick up Model Railway Modelling magazines and search through forums - you are rarely disappointed.
Tony
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Now that there's a place to pin these things, I keep bumping into great pages:
http://gothamcitysub.com/
That is lovely! I spotted a NYC police Bus in one of the pictures, but darned if that doesn't look like my Chicago. The extended supports sending the "EL" over the road are a common sight not far from my house.
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Here is a real classic, absolutely loaded with useful articles and diversions:
Pacific Coast Airline Railway (http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/)
I have used advice from here many times over the years and I'm following the guide for weathering track right now! :-* :-*
Update... Here is the WIP (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=76186.0) of of my railway embankments, with track weathered following the PCAR guide.
And here is the track weathering article (http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/4x8/weathered_track/) from PCAR.
Note: I used acrylic inks thinned with matte medium and water rather than drawing inks thinned with alcohol. I wanted to be sure of a more durable finish.
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I threadromancy here! ::)
I found this site and I thought it was worth adding to the list...
https://gmart364.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/building-buildings-lighting-and.html (https://gmart364.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/building-buildings-lighting-and.html)
The guys a genius at sci-fi modelling! :o
And there’s also this one for fantasy gamers....
http://mistralvernati.blogspot.co.uk (http://mistralvernati.blogspot.co.uk)
I use Google translate, seen as my Spanish ain’t that good! :?
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I threadromancy here! ::)
I found this site and I thought it was worth adding to the list...
https://gmart364.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/building-buildings-lighting-and.html (https://gmart364.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/building-buildings-lighting-and.html)
The guys a genius at sci-fi modelling! :o
Ah, yes, that one...
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http://mistralvernati.blogspot.co.uk (http://mistralvernati.blogspot.co.uk)
I use Google translate, seen as my Spanish ain’t that good! :?
Well, you are not making things easier for yourself, translating it to Spanish since it is in italian. :)
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Wow; I just had a Andersongasm (yes; that's now a thing :D ).
Those scifi buildings instantly have me wanting to dig out my UFO DVD boxes to watch the entire series again!
A great resource; many thanks for sharing, Andy! :)
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This fellow, building with buiders plasterboard, is pretty cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2puvwGnyW2Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2puvwGnyW2Y)
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Well, you are not making things easier for yourself, translating it to Spanish since it is in italian. :)
I’m going to play the rude British person card! ::) ;)
This fellow, building with buiders plasterboard, is pretty cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2puvwGnyW2Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2puvwGnyW2Y)
Yeah, those are excellent! Dam, that’s good! :-* Now I know what to do with all that plasterboard I have from doing DIY! Now I just need a project to go with it! ???
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This guys work with sci-fi buildings just blew my mind
https://gmart364.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/building-buildings-lighting-and.html
It's a flipping long post, but worth scrolling down through all ten or so buildings. It reminds me alot of the work done by Sean Patten of Necromundicon/IronHands fame, but generally in a smaller scale with a cleaner aesthetic.
Just in case anyone hadn't heard of Sean Patten, his site is here:
http://ironhands.com/
I've been following his site since the 90's and Necromundicon is my bible and guide for creating terrain from junk, toys and other bits. It' well worth digging into the whole site (not just necromundicon) as there's some great stuff buried in there. Almost every game section includes some awesome terrain, vehicles and such.
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Good shout with that one. His imperial War Train is my favourite of his. 8) It’s a skull-train! :o
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Luke Towan's youtube channel is absolutely excellent. Some of his trees are probably too fragile for wargaming, but there's still some really great stuff, and it all looks so easy.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjRkUtHQ774mTg1vrQ6uA5A?app=desktop
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Can we pin this thread please?
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Heres some great pages to look at. These are “proper”, professional modellers. The chair and the chandelier are REALLY impressive. You need to use the “next” and “previous” buttons to see it all.....
https://davidneat.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/model-making-basics-fine-construction/ (https://davidneat.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/model-making-basics-fine-construction/)
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Holy cow! :o
And just yesterday I was asked to prettify some upholstery foam, which our DM intends to use as rocks (a gorge to be exact) during tomorrow's session.
I was planning on cutting the surface a bit (he already cut the basic shapes) to create some texture and then spraypaint them and add some small patches of flock. But I think I'll hold off on that and will get myself some joint cement/topping coat (whatever that translates to in Dutch) and do it right this weekend...
Not sure if they're general or subscriber only, but Beasts of War had some rather good tutorials on using upholstery foam.
Cut and tear them to shape for hills and rocks, then pretty much take a large bucket and mix black paint with a lot of water. While wearing gloves squeeze the foam pieces as much as you can before submerging it in the paint mix and release while submerged before removing it after it releases. Repeat a few times before setting it aside to dry on some newspaper.
Dust it with other colors for use and then some thinned down glue for flock and then more to seal it.
Stuff is nigh indestructible and you can flatten it out for storage and transport...
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I don't think this has been up: https://www.svensktmjforum.se/forum/index.php?topic=9653.0 (https://www.svensktmjforum.se/forum/index.php?topic=9653.0)
It's in Swedish, but the pictures speak for themselves.
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Another one I found recently....
https://robhawkinshobby.blogspot.com/?m=1 (https://robhawkinshobby.blogspot.com/?m=1)
There's a few good Star Wars themed boards on there and his Wild West Exodus table with the Devils Tower from Close Encounters and the built in infinity mirrors is inspired!
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I do like the things Rob does. Very inspirational 8)
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Did someone mention Black Magic Craft, yet?
This guy have quite a few useful tips on his YouTube videos list;
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2Rlv-ug-mtnXuMwlpcqFgg/videos
He mainly work with foam board type that are available in Canada (the "pink one") and dollar store (Dollorama) stuff...
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Boulder Creek Railway / Luke Towan YouTube channel has been mentioned before in this thread (and elsewhere on LAF), but if you haven't heard/seen his stuff, he's very skilled:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjRkUtHQ774mTg1vrQ6uA5A
This video is an example of the stunning results:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4EOT1XXc_Y
Some builds are more complicated, but others drill down to individual elements. At the end of the day, building better boards is about a whole lot of elements coming together to add layers of detail.
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Hi All
I got my terrain boards out yesterday … I had them made a very, very long time ago, so long I have forgotten by whom.
Anyhow, I want to make some additional boards (undulating terrain and a wadi) but I’m struggling to find raw materials at the size I need them.
The boards are 24" x 24" (610mm x 610mm), made of dense polystyrene (not the flakey packaging variety). They are 40mm deep, but this isn’t so much of a problem as I will need to laminate for the heights and depths I need.
So … does anyone know where I might source boards cut to size … craft foam (the blue stuff – styrofoam?) would probably work too.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BAZ_j2a1ZZI/YCUy4cYwuDI/AAAAAAAAAiU/0-O0l6w5j-U6r5UjkEseM7FxcGdkqDo3wCPcBGAYYCw/s800/Terrain%2Bboards%2B01.jpg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4aH5k6c7RHg/YCUy4uAg4eI/AAAAAAAAAiY/ez6a5agWrGs_BYZW7eizT3Bh6IbWqZOwwCPcBGAYYCw/s800/Terrain%2Bboards%2B02.jpg)
Cheers
JJ
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I had these guys suggested – look ideal:
https://www.custompac.co.uk/polystyrene-cut-to-size (https://www.custompac.co.uk/polystyrene-cut-to-size)
Cheers
JJ
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Did someone mention Black Magic Craft, yet?
This guy have quite a few useful tips on his YouTube videos list;
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2Rlv-ug-mtnXuMwlpcqFgg/videos
He mainly work with foam board type that are available in Canada (the "pink one") and dollar store (Dollorama) stuff...
I'm just getting back into the hobby and have been following him. I made some of his rubber flooring mat rocky dirt roads for my Republican Romans to stub their toes on. Working on some proper, paved Roman roads too.
One great advantage of living in a wintry hellhole like Canada is the easy access to extruded polystyrene foam insulating board. One of the major manufacturers has realized hobbyists use it and has started selling 2'x2' sheets at the Home Depot for $2.10Cad.
And the Dollarama is, obviously, a national treasure.
Though I'm having trouble sourcing corrugated paper currently.