Lead Adventure Forum

Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Matthewc451 on June 23, 2015, 01:34:15 AM

Title: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matthewc451 on June 23, 2015, 01:34:15 AM
Little Wars Melbourne 2015 is over and I believe I have recovered enough to share my thoughts in a lucid manner. I ran a table to promote the forthcoming release of “A Right Bloody Mess” (ARBM) and received considerable interest. Christmas is the target for publication.

ARBM is the background for an Australian Civil War starting in 1933, pausing in ‘39 while we help with Hitler and Japanese, before hostilities kicking off again in 1945.

Based upon Western Australia seceding from the Federation following an over whelming majority supporting the action in the 1933 referendum.(The referendum and the result actually happened however, like the American Civil War, no provision existed in the constitution for a state to leave). The Northern Territory also joined WA forming the Dominion of Westralia.

WA rather than waiting for approval, just withdrew once the referendum result was known. Having spent the prior decade preparing for this eventuality they were well placed.

Victoria, in consultation with WA also intended to secede, and with five years planning was ready to act once the referendum results were known. VIC pushed things a bit further taking control of the border city of Albury, with the population's consent. This early encroachment upon  New South Wales was seen as an act of aggression and sparked a desire from many of the towns in the Murray – Murrumbidgee basin to also voice their desire to join VIC.

The actions of WA, NT and VIC caught the rest of the states totally unprepared. Against the backdrop of the Great Depression, Australia’s Armed Forces had dwindled to nearly nothing, although large stockpiles of arms, ammunition and equipment existed in every state.

ARBM is Rules and Scale agnostic, the intention being to provide the starting point and background and allow gamers to make what they will of the future. ARBM provides a number of advantages for gamers:
•   The conflict occurs in an environment and culture that Australian gamers know and can visualise. Since there has never been a war on our soil we rely on photos and descriptions of the landscape in any historical game. I may visit an overseas battlefield but will never really understand the environment, weather, etc. Similarly I don’t expect anyone from Europe or America to understand the red outback of WA.
•   The long timeframe (1933-1939) allows for huge changes in technology and world affairs.
•   Because of the large timeframe existing figures can be used or repurposed. I currently have 6mm, 15mm and 28mm forces in the works. I hold no grudge against 20mm, but I have to stop somewhere. For some of the book's artwork I am using 54mm figures as well as my own mods.
•   Army lists will be provided for numerous systems, from Chain of Command, Bolt Action to Pulp Adventures.

As most of the soldiers taking part will be dressed as civilians, or wearing WW1 surplus or WW2 tailored wear armbands are worn by most forces for recognition purposes. Below are the Armbands and flags of some of the factions.

A Google Group (ARBM1933) has been created to provide a specific forum for discussion (I cast no dispersions on Lead Adventure, quite the contrary, it is a goldmine.) I also have a Blog which I will try to keep updated. http://arbm1933.blogspot.com.au/ (http://arbm1933.blogspot.com.au/)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jE9tJWmj8SQYMdgrLhN3_bDnzfGOTUFCE9jEDF3XJ3w=w629-h614-no)
I have not included Communist, Nazi or Union graphics, although they will be in the book upon release.

I look forward to hearing peoples thoughts and plans.

Matthew
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: aktr on June 23, 2015, 09:41:00 AM
It sounds really interesting
Being from Blighty I don’t know much about Australian history but I have a soft spot for interwar war whether fictional or real (I think it’s the tanks ;D). Will there be details of any Intervention forces? And who do you think would intervene with it being quite far away from the ‘great powers’
The big question is will I be able to get this in the UK either in hard copy or digital format

Cheers

Andy
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on June 23, 2015, 12:15:12 PM
After seeing the lovely 15mm stuff you had on display at Little Wars, I have gone through my collection and put together some WWI mounted Serbians (as New Guard mounted arm) and Koori (trackers with a police command on a camel) along with Eureka Miniatures' WWII partisans to get a force together. I aim to use Early War Flames of War brieifings (pick and mixing platoons as I feel like) to get the company level feel, but heavily restricting tanks and other AFVs.

I really look forward to this project developing.

PS Your painted 6mm stuff was also very enticing.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matakakea on June 23, 2015, 05:17:38 PM
So New Zealand gets to retain the Bledisloe Cup until the ockers sort themselves out?  :D
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on June 24, 2015, 12:44:45 AM
Good luck with your concept. Although I've never participated in a game based on a hypothetical conflict I am drawn to their creative and whimsical potential. If it weren't for an excessively long queue of existing projects...

However, the assertion 'Since there's never been a war on our soil...' echoes straight out of what W.H Stanner identified way back in 1969 as 'the great Australian silence'. The cumulative documentary evidence of colonial history, human memory, and forty-five years of dedicated scholarship say otherwise. 
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Nic on June 24, 2015, 04:12:24 AM
I have just sent Alan Marsh some pictures to start making a few 28mm figures for this.
As time permits Eureka will be supporting this as much as possible.

Nic EUREKA MINIATURES
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Etranger on June 24, 2015, 04:24:21 AM
And some Emus Nic?

(for those that don't know why https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War )
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on June 25, 2015, 01:18:32 AM
After posting it occurred to me that all those games of AK47 Republic I've played in years gone by reside fully in the realm of the hypothetical; we just never pinned the setting down to a specific year or country. And I'd forgotten about a brief flirtation the gang had with VBCW. I even organised and ran one of the few games that graced the table before the transient excitement evaporated.   
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matthewc451 on June 25, 2015, 03:01:20 AM
Hi All,

Let me try and answer some questions.

I will be including details of the the primary players, but expect all sorts of new minor factions to be created by players. I for example have created "The Geelong Workers Union." As for army lists for major factions I hope to produce lists for multiple systems and provide them as Free PDFs.

One of my primary intentions is to provide few details after 1933, thus allowing players to take "history" in whichever direction they wish. If Britian or NZ, etc decides to get involved then it is the players decision. I can see Germany wanting to resestablish its colonies in the Southern Hemisphere or Japan seeing involvement in Australia's civil war as an alternive entry into their pacific solution.

As for format, initially it will be printed, however I will offer PDFs after an initial period.

Hope this helps, I am happy to answer any questions. Back to the PC for me to work on the last few pages and artwork. Then back to the archives for more background info.

Matthew
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on June 25, 2015, 09:47:10 AM
Some years ago, long before VBCW and its imitators appeared on the scene, I formed a vague notion of doing something along these lines, and did some reading about inter-war ideological struggles in Australia. Some of the material I encountered emphasised the powerful antipathy then prevalent between protestants and catholics, which broadly aligned with the left-right division. One book mentioned an incident in which the opposing factions armed themselves and prepared to shoot it out, with the protestants defending their parish church from the evil papists. I don't know if this dimension of the contemporary socio-political landscape is considered in your book, Matthew, but if not you might want to factor it in.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Testudo Maximus on July 05, 2015, 12:22:34 PM
Ive always wanted to do VBCW gaming in 28mm, it looks so good .  But not being form Britain allot of the factions do not make sense to me , I just cant get my head around who is who .This project brings it all a bit closer to home and the thought of a conflict like this going on in places as diverse  Collingwood all the way out to Gundagai makes it really appealing .
I will be watching this with great interest and looking to do something in 28mm I reckon . With Eureka miniatures involved the project just became allot easier to get into . cheers Tom 
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Dent on July 16, 2015, 11:45:46 AM
The 3rd Workers Brigade (Broken Hill) of the Australian Labour Army has been forming, on the NSW/SA Border.

From the Sydney Morning Herald, 33*

MINERS’ PRESIDENT
Speaks of the King Insultingly.
RELIGION ATTACKED.
WILD LABOUR ARMY SPEECHES
Broken Hill, Sunday.

The miners’ northern president (Mr D. Burtwistle), in the course of an address at a meeting held in Broken Hill this afternoon, to form a Broken Hill division of the Australian Labour Army, spoke in insulting terms of his Majesty the King.
Mr. Burtwistle declared that he always remained seated when “God Save the King” was played at picture shows. Some people, he said, looked at him as if he were ignorant. The position was the reverse.

After thus defining his attitude towards the British Crown, Mr. Burtwistle went on to make some remarks about religion. He said there were those who offer to people in return for lifes well lived a promise of a harp and a pair of wings hereafter. That return would be better made on earth. Rather than be in heaven with some hypocrites he knew, who were certain they were going there, he wanted to be in hell with investigators and scientists, who had been ridiculed down the corridors of time by those who were leading other men along the straight and narrow path to salvation.

Mr. Burtwistle gave the Labour Army the blessing of the Broken branches of the Miners’ Federation, and spoke bitterly of propaganda against the army by people who claimed to be revolutionaries, but were simply resolutionaires. He said that if the workers could get together there could only be one issue – a fight between them and the other section of the community, which made up only 20 precent of the total population of Australia.

“This system cannot be mended,” Mr. Burtwistle declared. “It must be ended, but with the least possible flow of blood.”
“The Australian Labour army will become what the Red army became in Russia,” said Mr. James Kidd. Mr. Kidd further declared that the Labour army was being formed for the definite purpose of combatting the All For Australia League and New Guard. Irrespective of what other speakers might say, the army was formed to fight.

“The Australian Labour army is necessarily a revolutionary movement,” Mr Kidd continued. “The working-class must realise that if they are going to fight, it will not be by the medium of ballot boxes, but of machine-guns. I believe the crisis will become more and more violent until there is a revolution brought about by the working-class rising against economic conditions.
Mr. F. C. Hutt, secretary of the Labour army, told the meeting that if Labour was ever to have a mobile force which could be thrown into action, it would have to be organised on military lines. The proposal was that each Federal electorate should constitute a division of the Labour army to which everybody on the side of the workers could belong, and that then there should be organisation into brigades, and, if numbers permitted, into battalions. A grand council would control the operations of the army from Sydney.
Mr. Donald Grant said that it was his chief desire to persuade the members of the All For Australia League and New Guard present to turn over and join the Australian Labour army. It was the business of the Australian Labour army to defend Mr. Lang against the attacks of his enemies. But if the army had to fight it would also fight for the overthrow of the capitalist system.
A resolution was passed affirming the Broken Hill district’s sympathy with the objects of the Australian Labour army. An unsuccessful attempt was made to hold a meeting in support of the militant “Workers’ Defence Corps” alongside the Labour army meeting.

*Actually from From the Sydney Morning Herald, 13 April 1931, page 9 (Some names and locations changed)
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matthewc451 on July 21, 2015, 01:12:46 PM
Dent,
You have been digging in the same whole as me, and picked up the fact the original post got the date and paper wrong. The original post on my personal blog was from a Rev Dr Dave? No clue as to who he is, but he pointed to another blog with this and another article.

Here is part of the post from my blog: http://arbm1933.blogspot.com.au (http://arbm1933.blogspot.com.au)

The Australian Labor Army, Unemployed Workers Movement and Worker’s’ Defence Corps were all creations of the Communist Party of Australia (CPA). Information on them is thin on the ground, but they occasionally appearing in newspaper articles and CPA files.

They were all militant creations of the CPA, most responding to the New Guard and keeping Lang in power, or to the eviction of families who due to unemployment were unable to pay the rent. Indeed this last factor was a national problem and on occasion lead to barricades and conflict.


BTW I completed the first draft of the primary manuscript on Thursday. This is not a rough document, but nearly ready for circulation/comment/etc from a select few before I hand it to the professional editor. They should receive what is believed to be a publishable document, it's not their job to look for typos, grammar, etc.

This means I can focus upon The remaining artwork, and Volume 2.

Christmas is the target and it looks achievable.

Must get some photos up onto my blog.

Matthew
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Dent on July 26, 2015, 01:59:58 PM
This may be of interest

Directory of Allocated War Trophies - WW1

http://artilleryhistory.org/artillery_register/directory_of_allocated_war_trophies_ww1.html (http://artilleryhistory.org/artillery_register/directory_of_allocated_war_trophies_ww1.html)

Give details of where various factions my find guns to help their causes.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Dent on August 07, 2015, 02:12:47 PM
The Flag of the "Block 10" Workers Battalion

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/C905173/Picture1_zpsub3l4biv.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/C905173/media/Picture1_zpsub3l4biv.png.html)
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on August 08, 2015, 12:05:01 AM
Nice. I'm slowly gathering my forces. I think punch ups at CanCon and at each of the Little Wars is looming...
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on January 09, 2016, 09:04:49 PM
The book is slowly coming along:
http://arbm1933.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/a-right-bloody-mess-publication.html

I've just put the final decals on an Avro 504K for the Tasmanians after I found the half painted thing in the pile. Needs a little weathering, but I'm pretty happy with it.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Ewan on January 10, 2016, 11:08:45 AM
The book is slowly coming along:
http://arbm1933.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/a-right-bloody-mess-publication.html

That's good as I thought the project was dead as it has been a while since there was an update.

Now to start thinking about what figures I will need to buy.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 10, 2016, 10:03:24 PM
In 1933 WA did vote for secession and... nothing happened (!); no mass rallies with rabble rousing speeches by charismatic separatist leaders waving rifles and vowing to defend the new republic to the death; not even a riot. In best Australian tradition there was a grand apathy on the part of the majority of citizens about the whole idea of bleeding for a political abstraction. All it took to thoroughly dissipate any lingering secessionist sentiment was a positive economy. The secessionists had obsequiously asked the British Government to allow WA to secede, and meekly accepted its refusal. The will to act outside the imperial political system didn't exist - so there's simply no historical underpinning for this concept.  

What I don't understand is why a completely historically implausible background set in 1933 has been selected as the foundation for this concept over a series of events from only the year before that brought part of this country as close to the brink of civil war as it's ever been: the New Guard plan to kidnap NSW premier Jack Lang, overthrow the state government, and install its own para-fascist regime. If Lang hadn't been sacked in May of that year the New Guard very probably would have attempted to enact its coup plot, the Australian Labor Army would have reacted, and it would have been on for young and old; and once the fires of armed conflict had been lit in NSW, who knows how much of the rest of the nation would have been drawn into the subsequent conflagration.  
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Happy Wanderer on January 10, 2016, 10:55:04 PM
A year ago when I first caught attention of this idea at Cancon it was the earlier potential civil disorder in New South Wales that we discussed on the drive back to Sydney...as being most viable.

Matt has done a lot of research however, so it'll be interesting to see how he fans the flames of conflict in WA with the background you describe and have it spill over into a great conflict ala AVBCW.

Interesting stuff so I shall watch with interest how this spins out.

Cheers

Happy W
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 12, 2016, 05:31:26 AM
There's a detailed analysis, including the military aspects, of the Lang crisis and the potential for civil war had he not been sacked by Andrew Moore at www.schools.nsw.edu.au.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on January 12, 2016, 07:36:29 PM
As a what-if (both scenarios), it's probably pointless to argue if one could happen or not over the other (when there's a chance both could cause all out civil war - albeit with various probabilities). Wargaming is all about what-ifs anyway.

Best just to let go and wargame whatever you want to (whether it's ARBM or not) and have fun; you do remember how to have fun?
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 13, 2016, 01:21:04 AM
... or for that matter, various degrees of improbability.

Isn't this supposed to be an open forum for the free discussion of the subjects presented? Once a participant - whether or not personally connected to the originator of a project under discussion - defensively stoops to infantile, snide, sarcastic personal attacks, no further mature exchange is possible. 
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on January 13, 2016, 11:44:48 AM
Totally agree.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: FramFramson on January 13, 2016, 08:22:39 PM
... or for that matter, various degrees of improbability.

Isn't this supposed to be an open forum for the free discussion of the subjects presented? Once a participant - whether or not personally connected to the originator of a project under discussion - defensively stoops to infantile, snide, sarcastic personal attacks, no further mature exchange is possible. 

You could have just replied "No."
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 14, 2016, 08:52:11 AM
For a plausible alternative history you ideally need a single, easily expressed 'What if...?'; a clearly identifiable decision point at which history could have taken a very different turn. In the case of an alternative history set in 1932, the 'What if...?' is unmistakable:

What if Premier Jack Lang hadn't been sacked by the governor in May?

At that moment tensions were at boiling point, representatives of all factions were openly making inflammatory pronouncements and threats of militant action, and/or preparing to bring secret plots to fruition, and right-wing figures had stated unequivocally that he and his administration would be forcibly removed and the apparatus of government taken over at gunpoint.  It was only his dismissal that defused the ticking time-bomb - and just in time. Tensions then ebbed away and there was a return to a less belligerent political atmosphere in which the probability of civil war markedly diminished.   

The more coincident decision points required to generate a 'What if...?, the more implausible it becomes.

I'm curious: what's the single decision point in the 1933 scenario from which a convincing 'What if...?' can be constructed? :-) (see...I'm having fun!).



 
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Arlequín on January 14, 2016, 10:25:06 AM
For a plausible alternative history you ideally need a single, easily expressed 'What if...?'; a clearly identifiable decision point at which history could have taken a very different turn. In the case of an alternative history set in 1932, the 'What if...?' is unmistakable: 

Different strokes for different folks. The degree of plausibilty required is reliant on individual tastes; for some it has to be eminently plausible, while others are quite happy with just a whiff of 'maybe'.

Let's face it, the most commonly played 'what if' of the 20th Century is Operation Sealion, something totally implausible (even to Hitler in the final analysis)... yet millions in the UK (including the government) were convinced it was going to happen. You have to hand-wave away so much to make it work, yet WWII gamers will go at it all the same in spite of that.

While I am supportive of adult discussion here, I would think that considering the project is six months down the line it might be a tad late to point out 'the year before would have been better'. It might be more constructive instead to offer possible reasons why it could still work in the chosen time frame, rather than suggest tearing down the house and starting over... purely my opinion as an observer of course.

 :)
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 14, 2016, 10:38:41 PM
There's an obvious, very major difference between a hypothetical Operation Sealion and the ARBM concept, Arlequin: the historical context. WW2 was real and in progress in the proposed OS time-frame, and its hypothetical belligerents were real belligerents actually engaged in a desperate life-or-death struggle. In contrast, ARBM has to be generated from and imposed upon a peaceful Australia. It's a much shorter step to the former than the latter.

As you asked, I think the only way to rationalise the 1933 scenario is as occurring in some sort of parallel reality or universe, rather than alternative history that can be traced to events taking a different turn at a single historical pivot point. If gamers are happy with that, I say good luck to them. In the end it's all just mucking about with toy soldiers anyway. :-) (the fun just never stops).   



Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 15, 2016, 06:18:21 AM
For those who might want to take up the 1932 'Lang Crisis' option, from my reading I've identified six possible 'sides':

1. The New Guard and other, smaller fascist and near fascist elements, bent on replacing the constitutional state government with a para-fascist regime.

2. Conservative federalist forces determined to remove Lang's administration and end his moves towards a more socialistic system, and reimpose federal control of state revenues. These would include the military forces of the Commonwealth, and paramilitary organisations that Andrew Moore has identified as cooperating under the auspices of the Old Guard, but which other commentators believe operated independently.

3. The NSW Police Force, determined to uphold its position as guardian of public order and security, and inimical to any groups it considered a threat to its power.

4. Popular left-wing elements such as the Australian Labor Army, who vowed to defend the Lang government from right-wing threats, but had no revolutionary agenda.

5. Smaller far-left organisations, such as the Communist Party, who could be expected to exploit any disorder to further their own revolutionary plans.

6. Groups advocating independence for rural regions.

There are some very interesting potential martial dynamics here. For instance, as might be expected, the police had had a long history of confrontation with organised labour, but in 1932 the unions wholeheartedly supported the constabulary's show of force against right-wing plotters. And perhaps surprisingly to some, the 'Old Guard' and New Guard were bitterly opposed to each other, and could be expected to violently contest power if the various factions had opted for the bullet over the ballot.

Even for those who choose this scenario over ARBM1933 as published, I'm sure there will plenty of relevant and useful material in Matthew's book.

     

     
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 19, 2016, 01:39:20 AM
On the subject of potentially useful 28mm figures for the NSW 1932 option, because the action would be kicking off in May and you'd probably be looking at a fairly short conflict that didn't extend into the Summer months, many of the figures used for VBCW would work just as well for this concept. The only proviso I would make when considering the options is that some packs, such as many of the dedicated sets from Footsore, contain figures with a mixture of British and non-British weapons (e.g. Mausers; dodgy even for VBCW, IMO, both from an historical accessibility and unit logistics perspective) that would be very unlikely to turn up down under in any numbers. There would be large stockpiles of the standard British-pattern weapons and equipment used by Australian military forces available, and these would be the first preference for all factions due to familiarity, experience, and logistics considerations. For combatants unable to access this materiel the next best option would be assorted obsolete military/police, and civilian sporting weapons.

I see that Reiver Castings has an extensive dedicated VBCW range, which although not of the same sculpting standard as the likes of Footsore (but much cheaper!), has all its civilian figures kitted out with British weapons and equipment.

Of course all this applies equally to ARBM1933, except that with it being envisaged as a much longer, multi-season conflict, figures in distinctively Aussie summer gear (slouch hats, militia in singlets etc.) will also work, and would help to more obviously set it apart from VBCW. No doubt Eureka's forthcoming range will reflect this antipodean aesthetic.         
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Ragnar on January 19, 2016, 04:13:42 AM
Mods, please put Leigh's ideas into a separate thread.

This is meant to be Matthew's ideas.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 19, 2016, 05:33:28 AM
Really?

I wasn't aware that, apart from the owner's LA Miniatures board, a commercial exclusivity arrangement applied to this or any other thread on this site. If that is the case I think the site moderators should have some sort of system for openly declaring at the start of a thread if it's primarily intended to promote and advertise a particular product, and if there's a commercial agreement between the parties; or better still, set aside a separate advertising board solely for that purpose.

Anyway, much of what I've posted here relates equally to NSW1932 and ARBM1933; I'm just offering gamers an alternative more grounded in history. And as I said, Matthew's book will be of equal interest whichever way someone might decide.   
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Ragnar on January 19, 2016, 06:48:59 AM
Or there is just manners.

Edit: who said anything about commercial exclusivity?
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Arlequín on January 19, 2016, 08:52:43 AM
Or there is just manners.

Like it or not, when a topic is posted in a forum, the inference is that it becomes open to discussion. That discussion may sway to and from support of a topic or a principle and you cannot really dictate how contributors should respond. We have rules preventing personal attacks, offensive language and other less palatable behaviour, but we don't have any that stop rudeness or bad manners - just like the real world.

You can of course apply the real world solution of ignoring those that offend you though.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Happy Wanderer on January 19, 2016, 11:15:20 AM
Gents,

As one privy to the contents of ARBM 1933 I think Leigh's suggestions are actually very relevant to this topic. In fact it may make for an excellent 'small scale' curtain raiser that sets the scene for the later conflagration that ARBM33 proposes.

Also, the numbers of people interested in interwar counterfactuals is relatively small so if we were to work together I think it can only be for the betterment of ARBM33 and all concerned...I appreciate your sentiment Ragnar and Leigh but I think we all have ARBM33 best interests at heart even though approaching it from a different direction...so we're all looking for a good outcome...hope that wasn't too preachy-sorry

I'm sure to be using my VBCW BUF in a setting more akin to Leigh's factional descriptions in the Lang Crisis as the site of the events is very local to me. I shall also repurpose my SCW militia as La Perouse Anarchists or other leftist militias of Redfern, our Dad's Army and WW1 Abyssinian Crisis British will do for Federalist forces and even a few of my VBCW police will be able to o be used I think..must check on NSW copper uniforms in 1932!

Throw in some of Eureka miniatures kangaroos and other bits and pieces and it'll all be quite usable with most of the miniatures all ready to be used.

I suspect that some/all of these types wil turn up a year later so they can be used for deployment in ARBM33 proper!

All sounds good to me!

Cheers

Happy Wanderer
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on January 19, 2016, 11:38:23 AM
I agree, at the end of the day everyone's going to have their own version of how things play out; it's all hypothetical anyway.

I'm currently prepping a pair of ALA SPAD S.XIIIs, the chance of them flying in Australian skies in 1933 in my version of events is... 100%. I'm right as there is no wrong.

Leigh has provided an alternative, I just think Leigh needs to work on his people skills. That's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 19, 2016, 12:18:55 PM
That's a good point about the potential 'curtain raiser', or catalyst, relationship between a hypothetical Lang Crisis conflict and ARBM1933, Happy Wanderer. Broadly, how do you see events unfolding to produce this outcome?
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 20, 2016, 02:23:01 AM
I'm no expert on the introduction dates of inter-war/early WW2 equipment, but I suspect that the latest WW2 release from Perry miniatures could possibly be of great interest to prospective ARBM players. There's nothing glaringly too late to my untutored eye, but the experts here will be able to better judge their suitability; rolled shirt sleeves for Summer campaigning, too!   
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Happy Wanderer on January 20, 2016, 04:50:48 AM
Hi Leigh,

I'll be honest, I haven't quite got that far...staring at the ingredients not yet sure how or what the recipe will be.

As as Perry minis, ideally the ones to get are Peter Jackson's private Perry WW1 range. The latest French troops with a slouch hat might work but post '37 British kit won't do for 1932 in Sydney.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 20, 2016, 05:00:32 AM
I understand that infantry equipment would be wrong, but is there anything in particular about the new yeomanry cavalry that wouldn't work?
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: carlos marighela on January 20, 2016, 07:35:41 AM
People can play with whatever toys appeal to them and this a fantasy topic anyway but all the Perry miniatures are wearing '37 pattern webbing. The clue is in the name, it was introduced into service British Army starting in 1937, so well after the nominal dates for the scenario. Actually the introduction date is somewhat nominal, it didn't really start rolling out in great quantities until just before the outbreak of the Second World War. Up until then '08 Pattern webbing was the dominant type and if you look at photos of the Militia in the 1930s and even the 2nd AIF, pre-embarcation for Egypt, you'll see extensive use of '08 webbing. Probably inconsequential to many but it really does give a quite different look to the figures.

Pretty much any Great War era Australian figure would do for this project, with probably the Gripping Beast ones having the best and most suitably scruffy range. Things had not changed by the '30s.

A group of us looked at doing this around 20 years ago, about the time that Michael Cathcart's Defending the National Tuckshop came out*. We went for the earlier Lang inspired scenario. As a project it never quite got off the ground. Minifigs' 15mm Great War figures and Command Decision's OTT was how we intended to game it out.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on January 20, 2016, 10:28:19 AM
I agree - you can make this genre as weird as you want it to be (some game VBCW as close as possible to what kit (uniform/vehicles) was available at the time to those who are are little more liberal with BUF black shorts, Morris men, etc).

I'm with Leigh - the Perry figures can be used for ARBM (you you go for the more fantasy-laden spectrum of the above). Men and women aren't prevented from sewing together kit that just happens to look very similar to what was to come out ~5 years later. Same reason I'm using SPAD S.XIIIs for my communists, it's possible (although extremely unlikely) that some were kept in a good enough condition after the RCW to ship to Australia. Meh - it's happened for real in at least one parallel universe.

Link here for the Perry Miniatures figures:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=86406.0
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: starkadder on January 20, 2016, 10:38:19 AM
One of the better descriptions.

The light horse militia of the 30's also did not get front-line equipment. Like most such formations they took what they were given. My father was one of them.

http://www.lighthorse.org.au/resources/manual-for-dress-equip-and-conduct/manual-for-dress-equip-and-conduct-6.-pictorial-dress-ww1 (http://www.lighthorse.org.au/resources/manual-for-dress-equip-and-conduct/manual-for-dress-equip-and-conduct-6.-pictorial-dress-ww1)

My father was an active unionist, an ALP man and part of the Domain crowds on the eve of Lang's sacking. While there was a lot of anger, piss and wind, it was his belief that nothing would have happened. He told me that the level of anger was about the same as Whitlam's sacking in 1975. Nothing happened there either. He was involved in some desperate late night punch-ups in Western NSW but that was as much about Catholic-Protestant tensions as much as anything else.

The whole thing is a fantasy. Go for your life. Have fun with it.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Arlequín on January 20, 2016, 10:44:56 AM
Certainly the new Perry yeomanry (and their dismounted counterparts to follow) should be a godsend for this project. There was no 'Pre-WWII' revision of cavalry kit and head-swaps not withstanding, they should work from the Great War to 1942.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Happy Wanderer on January 20, 2016, 10:56:29 AM
That's interesting Carlos. Given the factions that Leigh outlined how do they tie in with how you perceived the Lang Crisis developing into something more serious? I mean, was it a locale Sydney basin fracas thing or or something bigger ala ARBM?

Any info on how you planned to expand out the Lang Crisis to make a 'VBCW/ARBM' world out of it would be interesting to hear....given this is kind of what we were thinking.

Cheers

HW
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 20, 2016, 01:17:35 PM
A 'Lang Crisis' scenario presumes that the Governor either declines to sack Lang, or prevaricates too long over the decision to satisfy impatient conservative and right-wing plotters. It's triggered by simultaneous, or near simultaneous, 'Old Guard' and New Guard military operations against Lang's administration and its supporters, compelling them and the NSW Police Force to respond militarily. It's not about a hypothetical more extreme left-wing reaction to his sacking, Starkadder.

According to Andrew Moore the military was already swinging into action, some conservative militia units were starting to mobilise, and the New Guard was on the point of launching its coup when the Governor suddenly sacked Lang and it all came to a screeching halt. 'For want of a nail...'

That's exactly my point, Arlequin. I thought, looking at the photos on the Perry website, that that bandolier equipment doesn't appear very different to WW1 kit, so I wondered if yeomanry, as second-line units, might still be equipped with outdated gear, and that the cavalry figures might therefore be ideal for ARBM etc. I also thought that their being depicted in shirts makes them more adaptable to representing irregular and improvised units, with the shirts painted in civilian shades. Another possibility that occurs to me is that, with those pith helmets looking very much like the type worn by the NSW police, you could replace the heads with the Perry Aussie slouch hat separate heads and use the original heads to convert Footloose RIC into our own constabulary.





   
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Arlequín on January 20, 2016, 06:56:30 PM
The only slight detail I can imagine being different is the shirt collar. In the British Army the old 'greyback' collarless shirt was replaced by a KD 'airtex' shirt in the mid '30s... but you'd really have to be pedantic to let that bother you. Australian units I don't know about.

The Yeomanry were actually first-line Territorials and within the Cavalry Division itself were regular units like the Household Cavalry and the Scots Greys... all of which retained their horses until September '41. The cavalry gear had been in use since 1905 (iirc), it wasn't so much outmoded or obsolete, but that the cavalry were happy with it.

Bearing in mind you're talking pre-1935, it might be worth considering that in the British Army at least, mechanisation of the cavalry had not actually begun. I'm sure someone knows better than me, but I recall that there were two armoured sections, each of two Vickers Mediums (one in NSW and the other in Victoria). The 19th LH (1st Armoured Car Regiment after 1934) had armoured cars, but I've no idea of number or type. That part of the regiment later became a motor-machine gun unit suggests they didn't have a full complement of ACs though.
 
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: LordOdo on January 20, 2016, 08:28:18 PM
I like the idea of an Australian civil war (just for gaming of course ;))

Might game some skirmishes myself.
The central person in my storyline will be an Austrlian imigrated fascist by the name Joseph Reiter.
Created this;

(http://i.imgur.com/BYBJ9a8.png)
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 20, 2016, 09:14:14 PM
The presence of collars on those yeomanry shirts makes the figures more useful as civilian political militia. You could even putty over the puttees (sorry) on a few to turn them into riding boots or loose trousers for a more irregular effect. I can already imagine them with shirts painted black (interestingly, the BUF had a presence in Australia).

I see what you mean about the Woodbine Design Gallipoli figures, Carlos: a nice random assortment of  costume and equipment. The only issue is the SD caps on some, but they could be replaced with Woodbine or Perry slouch/tin hat separate heads easily enough - except for the ones with neck curtains, which would require considerably more work. I suppose one could add a putty collar to create civilian-style shirts where necessary. And there's also the Brigade Games range for even more variety. You could visually differentiate militia and regulars by reserving the 'casually attired' figures for the former, and using figures in regulation WW1 uniform and equipment for the latter. 
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 21, 2016, 08:28:49 PM
A caution based on a closer perusal of the Brigade Games range:

For some reason the dismounted light horse figures don't match the mounted figures: they're in shirts, shorts and puttees or long trousers, with infantry equipment (perhaps based on the LH at Gallipoli), whereas the mounted figures are in the regulation tunic and gaiters with bandolier equipment. What this means is that the 'dismounted LH' are actually additional infantry variants, and there are no dismounted LH figures. Nice as the mounted LH figures are, is there any point buying them if you can't deploy them on foot? However, all is not lost as very nice matching foot and mounted LH figures can be found in the Battle Honours 28mm WW1 range made by Old Glory 15s.

All but one pack of the bespoke Brigade Games ANZAC infantry are Kiwis in lemon-squeezers, so they'll need to have their heads replaced (or at least the Montana peaks filed down ) if you want to use them.

On a slightly different note, for those considering 20mm I notice that the police in the Irregular Miniatures VBCW range are, for reasons unknown, wearing headgear that looks very much like the NSW police pith helmet!
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 22, 2016, 05:44:02 AM
On the subject of 20mm, while the figure options aren't as abundant or ideal as for 28mm there's one very important consideration that might just push some people in that direction: the availability and accessibility of suitable vehicles, aircraft, and buildings.

I've been investigating, and I was flabbergasted by what's available in the way of highly detailed period HO model railway building models, many in MDF. Have a look at, for instance, Modelsnmore and prepare to be amazed! You could very easily create an entire town, or even a convincing inner city suburb. They have a couple of large hotels, and obvious objectives in an urban battle such as a barracks(!) and a town hall, along with all the trimmings to convincingly create any urban or rural 1930s Australian environment.

This stuff doesn't come cheap though, so it would probably have to be a club/group investment, and accumulated over the long haul. If your group were going down this path I think, rather than collective ownership, it would be better to have individual ownership of models so that if/when interest in ARBM wanes, or someone moves elsewhere, participants could sell their models (perhaps to other participants, so the models stay in the collection)and reclaim some of their investment. There is the slight consolation that 20mm figures are cheaper than 28mm. 
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on January 22, 2016, 09:47:08 PM
Good find (http://modelsnmore.com.au/) other option is to use the kit as inspiration for scratch-building in same/other scales or seeing what from other manufacturers might suit this setting. While there is a lot of archival images available for this period, sets like those from MnM can consolidate a look.

One reason I'm sticking to a rural setting to start off with, but an urban one with W class trams (available in some scales) is enticing.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 22, 2016, 10:58:40 PM
Other HO manufacturers include Model Train Buildings, Aus-scene, Old Dog Authentic, and Outback Model Buildings, and an architectural model maker called Little Building Company has a 1/100 range.

So far I haven't found anything in S scale, so the search continues.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 22, 2016, 11:34:07 PM
A cheaper option is card/paper models. Hayler Heritage makes commissioned models, and there's one free downloadable model on its website: the Boot Factory, Bondi Junction.

Australian-card-kits.com ostensibly has a number of useful models... if only I could work out how to access them.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 23, 2016, 12:22:34 AM
What else am I going to do on a Saturday morning, right?

Anyway, Casula Hobbies - possibly exclusively - stocks a brand of HO card Aussie buildings called LJ Models. It's an extensive range, but there are only a few images on the site, so it's difficult to tell how many are of the right period. I guess if you're interested in a particular model(s) you could just ask via email.   
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 24, 2016, 04:49:28 AM
With the benefit of a night's sleep, a couple more thoughts:

As indicated above, there's no shortage of suitable laser-cut MDF building models in HO scale. There are also some in N scale, and one or two in O scale. Despite an intensive search though, I haven't found anything in S scale (1/64). If S scale models were a viable product presumably they'd already be in production. But there are railway modellers working in that scale in this country; I found websites for two specialist clubs, and the existence of clubs implies the existence of unaffiliated hobbyists - all currently obliged to resort to scratch-building for their miniature structures. If suddenly there was a whole new market for 1/64 historical Australian building models they might become viable.

I recall a conversation at a show a couple of years ago with representatives of one of our MDF wargame building manufacturers (I can't remember the name), during which they indicated an openness to responding to customer suggestions for new models. If all intending ARBM 28mm gamers emailed such companies demanding building models in 1/64 scale (and highlighted the potential train brain sales) I think it's possible we might just see the first stirrings by the time ARBM is published.

While viewing the Woodbine Design Gallipoli list I couldn't help but notice the Leach Trench Catapult model. I amused myself with the idea that, because of a desperate shortage of 'heavy' weapons of any sort in a military environment characterised by improvisation, it's not too far-fetched that a veteran with experience in its use could have revived the idea and the less well-equipped factions at least might have adopted it into their arsenals. Like the original (made by Gamages department store, and issued 20 to a division) it could even have been mass produced. And maybe some would have been mounted on trucks for use in urban combat, lobbing grenades over buildings. IF AVBCW can have its touches of military whimsy why shouldn't ARBM? And I'm sure Woodbine would have no objection to gamers finding an additional use for this unusual model beyond its narrow Gallipoli application.         
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Arlequín on January 24, 2016, 12:19:48 PM
With something like the Leach catapult, I'm sure there would be someone (or a few someones) who might pipe up with the suggestion in lieu of a Stokes mortar being available.

Necessity is indeed the mother of invention too, so it's not that later ideas could not be brought forward in time either. There is a point where you can go too far with that however (well short of some guy knocking up a Panzer IV in his garden shed for example), but I would be loathe to suggest one and limit anybody's individual enjoyment. 'Ned Kellying' some civilian vehicles and adding a variety of armament to them is not rocket science though.

This was fourth in the line of 'LP' armoured cars designed in Australia in the '30s.

(http://www.warfare.altervista.org/Marmon-Herrington/bandicoot2.jpg)

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-armour/allied/bandicoot.htm
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Happy Wanderer on January 24, 2016, 08:22:38 PM
Excellent find there Leigh on this buildings, particularly the Casula LJ Models card buildings....shame their website is crap without pictures.Regards Laser cut buildings, Mike Parker of Battlefield Scenics has moved into this area an maybe he is the man to run with this idea. I picked up one of his new offerings at Cancon and they look pretty good. If he were to make up five or six 'Aussie' buildings they have use beyond just Australia I'm sure and then there's the whole 1/64 S scale thing as you say.

Some of Mike's stuff
http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=166604


I note one of the comments in that thread said "He reckons he'll make things on demand for buyers, rather than production runs. He does mdf bases and houses for Nic at Eureka Miniatures"

So it sounds like a match made in heaven...a burgeoning new-ish on demand laser cut building by the same blokes involved in Eureka Miniatures.


Certainly he'd be a go-to man on this one I would think.

Cheers

Happy W
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: carlos marighela on January 24, 2016, 08:31:23 PM
Yep. People forget that the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation, sprang up almost overnight and ended up churning out hundreds of Wirraways and Boomerangs (albeit with large government orders). Tanks in their hundreds rolled out of former railway manufacturers. People forget that there was a reasonably large industrial base in the country at the time, overwhelmingly centred on Victoria dn NSW, although if you survey what's become/becoming of places like Fishermen's Bend today it's entirely understandable that people would forget.

The trouble with a game based around walloping the Sandgropers, is that unless it's n 'over by Christmas' and fixed by diplomacy, WA has neither the population or industrial base to survive.

Anyone in Melbourne looking for cardstock and MDF Australian buildings (mostly HO) would do well to look into Train World in Brighton. They have extensive stock of these.

Alas, nobody produces Victorian workers cottages. I live in inner Melbourne and by far the most popular house styles around my parts are single story workers cottages, California bungalows and the odd double fronted single storey and federation style house. Beyond that there are clusters of double storey terraces but the old Victorian workers cottage is by far the most prominent item and would have been in the 1930s. Alas, none of the pubs in Leigh Metford's link evenly vaguely resemble the local establishments. Pubs are an indispensable item. There used to be about 30 + in Fitzroy alone and pretty much all of them dated to before the 1930s.

By the by, the Perry wooden cottage is a pretty useful item for 28mm gamers. It's easily modified, has a nice verandah and if you relace the roof with a tin one it looks the part.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 24, 2016, 11:56:02 PM
Do you mean Battlefield Accessories, Happy (if that's not too familiar)? I had a look at the company's website, and it does indeed seem like there might be a good chance of seeing a result there if people were to bother Mike with enough requests.

There is the proviso that the production feats you cite occurred under a wartime economy in a united country mobilised across all social strata against foreign enemies and under threat of invasion Carlos, in which national defence had been elevated to No 1 priority at all levels of government and society. I doubt that such achievements would have been possible in the circumstances of civil war, with different industrial zones controlled by opposing factions and a large proportion of the industrial workforce actively opposed to the professional and ruling classes. Of course, there would have been much conversion of production facilities to war production on a local level, as seen in the Spanish Civil War, but without adequate time, all the pieces of the design and production chain in place, and the essential financial backing, the output of those facilities would have been relatively low, ad hoc, and unsophisticated.

I'm sure I saw workers' cottages on at least one of those HO websites.





 



 
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Jakar Nilson on January 25, 2016, 01:48:54 AM
Tanks in their hundreds rolled out of former railway manufacturers.

AFV Weapons #31 by Profile Publication Ltd. only lists 65 Sentinel tanks, and goes over the difficulties building them, including importing the engines from overseas.

I only purchased the magazine a few months ago, but it was quite an interesting read.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matthewc451 on January 25, 2016, 03:24:24 AM
Hi Everyone, thought it was time for me to dip my oar in.

I think its wonderful that people are talking about the concept of a major interwar conflict in Australia, that is after all the purpose of the thread and why I have put so much effort into preparing a background. BTW it should will be available at Little Wars Melbourne in May.

I have assumed that the key event is WAs secession, where they prepared for the moment and seized it. Victoria, who was currently in political conflict with NSW and Canberra at the time, also chose that moment and put years of preparation into it. The thing that pushes a constitutional crisis into a physical one is the advance of Victorian Troops into Riverina area, which welcomes them, and declares the area captured as Victorian. This is the real cataclysmic event that drags the country into civil war.

It may seen plausible, but when you do the research it was "possible." Victoria and WA were greatly inflamed by Sydney and Canberra as most of the expenditure was going to the greater Newcastle - Sydney area. It got to the point where the two states refused to contribute their agreed share to national projects and initiatives. The Federal Government caved and contributed their share. Similarly, the Riveriana area was rebelling against Sydney for the same region. The Riveriana movement got over 60,000 attendees to two rallies. They wanted to secede. The push was large enough to get a Royal Commission looking into whether NSW should be subdivided. They ultimately suggested that NSW be broken into 3 states. We know how it ended.

I have identified over 20 factions, so that players can play state vs state if they wish, or the internal conflicts within a single area. I have also created a few factions that represent what I want. The key is not the event, but the ability to represent a landscape and culture that local players can relate to. I have spent considerable time in the UK but it ultimately remains alien to me. I also learned an awful lot during the process.

In my deliberations I rejected the New Guard - Lang angle as it did not naturally lead to civil war and may not expand out of the Sydney region. That said, there is no reason why it could not occur either as a curtain raiser or the main event. It would provide a good excuse why NSW was on a war footing in 1933.

Whatever you do, enjoy it, and delve into local history, its fascinating.

Matt
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Colonel Grubb on January 25, 2016, 12:59:11 PM
I saw your leaflet at CanCon the other day and I really like the concept and can't wait to read the source book for this when it comes out.

However what is the thinking behind the Australian Red Centre faction?
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 25, 2016, 01:37:09 PM
Clearly communist guerillas operating from a base on Ayers Rock (contemporary terminology).
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Leigh Metford on January 26, 2016, 03:31:21 AM
At some point soon after WW1 the Australian army appears to have dropped the British-style SD cap from the uniform issued to other ranks, in which case of course, it shouldn't appear on ARBM figures.

I just checked my email and there was a response from Andy at Gripping Beast to an enquiry I sent them about their Gallipoli infantry packs. They're prepared to make up special ARBM packs omitting figures with SD caps with neck curtains, so you'd only need to replace heads with SD caps with their separate slouch hat heads (these are available either turned up or with flat brim, on sprues of five). Just ask when you order.     
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matthewc451 on January 27, 2016, 06:44:42 AM
Colonel Grubb asked:
I saw your leaflet at CanCon the other day and I really like the concept and can't wait to read the source book for this when it comes out.

However what is the thinking behind the Australian Red Centre faction?


When the referendum was held in April 1933 to ask the question about secession or not, the overwhelming response was a Yes. Of the 237,198 registered voters (voting was compulsory),  68% were in favour. The more interesting stat however was that only 6 of 50 electoral districts recorded a No vote and five of them were in the Goldfields and Kimberley regions.

It is this group that would have objected to the immediate secession that WA, or any other breakup of the Federation. Thus the creation of the Red Centre Faction. They are based in the Kalgoorlie-Coolgardie area, and their area of operation essentially spreads North and West from the wheatbelt. Given they are for of a single Australia, against WA (and Vic), and located in he middle of enemy territory it would be in NSW and Qld's best interests to provide equipment and possibly men. They would also be perfectly placed to harass any road or rail movement between WA and Vic.

One of the things about the region is that a very high percentage of the population was from the Eastern states, and thus that is where their loyalty would lie. Indeed it was the amendment of the electoral roll prior to the WA Federation referendum (to include anyone that had been in the colony for more than 12 months) that got them over the line. Without the push from the Goldfields it would have too close to predict.

The Red Centre are a very interesting faction given that they are in the heart of WA territory, thus nullifying the isolation that would otherwise work in WAs favour. WA having taken the step to secede, now had to fight.

I have Perry 8th army for WA and Red Centre forces. They also make slouch hats at a very reasonable price, it is this very casual look that I want for the hot dry climate of WA.

Eureka Miniatures has Kangaroo already on the mold and the Camel Corps is coming along nicely. I can see Camel and horse back troops trying to attack trains near the SA border.

Matt
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Captain Darling on February 16, 2016, 09:52:43 AM
Interesting thread I'll be looking forward to see what developes.

As an aside in 1980 (SPI was riding high and a big influence at the time) my friend Dave and I created a hex and counter Australia In Crisis game. There was a continent map and a battle map. Units were companies and battalions and it began with NSW splitting due to a political crisis and then we had political events to control the other states options...the whole thing died as we worked out at the time Australia really lacked within its borders the population or industry to support any prolonged conflict. Too few people and resources (as said at the time) over such a huge land mass led to a boring 'simulation'  :-[ A couple of things we found was W.A. was so isolated at the time it could do what it liked and S.A., Tas and N.T. were so people poor they could barely effect any outcome. We started experimenting with international intervention but discovered university and dating....
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on March 28, 2016, 01:49:09 PM
Have just finished a flight of 1/72 aircraft painted as various factions for this. I'm getting excited for its release and the research I'm conducting in anticipation has me discovering random facts like Brazil got the Tiger Moth before the RAAF. (Which means I'll be painting one of them next.)
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Captain Darling on March 29, 2016, 01:06:23 PM
Got any pictures of your aircraft to share Von Lucky?
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on March 29, 2016, 01:38:30 PM
In about 3 weeks ;)
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Ewan on May 30, 2016, 08:00:12 AM
Was there any further progress on the book as I'm keen to buy.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on May 30, 2016, 11:57:54 AM
Yes - saw Matthew yesterday at Little Wars Melbourne. I'll let him fill in the details, but suffice to say things are moving again after a few months hiatus due to illness.

I also managed to pick up a 1/72 Tiger Moth to add to the project for $2 so I'm happy.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Captain Darling on May 31, 2016, 11:13:21 PM
Hey Von Lucky has anyone posted up any pictures of Melbourne Little Wars 2016 you know of (did a Google search
with no success)?
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on May 31, 2016, 11:36:14 PM
There's the Little Wars Australia Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/littlewarsaustralia/

And there's a few people that have posted their various games around the place. Haven't found any blog posts though.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Captain Darling on May 31, 2016, 11:42:30 PM
Of course Facebook thanks Von lucky!

What brand was the Tiger Moth?
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on June 01, 2016, 09:47:41 AM
Just an old version of the Airfix one, ie:
http://mfpilot.com/raf-tiger-moth-biplane-1-72-airfix-kit.html

Will probably paint it as a Brazilian trainer that's been smuggled into Victoria:
(http://alexandrahighcrest.com/blog/wp-content/lg-gallery/Favourite%20Things/de%20Havilland%20Tiger%20Moth%20of%20the%20Brazilian%20Navy.jpg)

The rest of the aircraft were painted for an LPL round:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/images/lpl/s10/r09/von_Lucky_Magpies_over_the_Maribyrnong_rd9.JPG)

Clockwise from top left: former RAAF (one that in this timeline didn't get destroyed in the late 1920s) Royal Aircraft Factory S.E.5 flown by Victorian nationalists; RCW-era SPAD S.XIII of the Australian Labour Army; former (TBC) VVS Polikarpov I-5; another ALA SPAD S.XIII; privately owned Avro 504 flown by Tasmanian volunteers.

Haven't used them in a game, but I'm imagining some sort of WoG/X-Wing hybrid.

Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matthewc451 on June 24, 2016, 04:52:47 AM
Von Lucky's planes are gorgeous in the flesh.

They were one of the lovely surprises at Little Wars. My favourite is a play who is producing a "Country Women's Association" CWA, force for ARBM, complete with tea trolly.

I have sent the book to the printer, and am waiting for a proof before finalising things. The proof is mainly to check color reproduction. It will be a 266 page, cloth bound hardcover full of useful information (most historical) for gaming in the period. The bulk of the book is faction guides, outlining the major players and minor factions and offshoots. It does not stop the creation of your own factions, indeed I have done so myself, rather it gives you the information to understand the environment  they operate within. I apologise that it is not wargaming porn, but it has some interesting photos and useful maps.

They tell me 30 days till I receive my proof, and then another 30 days before the final books arrive in my hands. On the upside I will have the ability to send an individual copy to any non-Australian country direct from the printer, so questions about availability overseas have been solved.

Happy Painting
Matt
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matthewc451 on June 24, 2016, 05:35:02 AM
Hi,

I have started a new thread asking for assistance, essentially preferences for ARBMs web presence.

Your insights would be appreciated.

Matt
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on June 24, 2016, 03:19:20 PM
Thanks Matt. And good news!

Here's the link to that thread to keep things easy:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=91534.0

I'm also saddened to hear that John from Showcase Models (who I bought the I-5 from) passed away earlier in the year. Very sad news.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Ewan on June 24, 2016, 07:37:45 PM
I will definitely be buying a copy  :)
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: The Breaker on February 22, 2017, 06:00:23 AM
Apologies for the threadnomancy but I was wondering if this project was still going?

Cheers.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Huascar on February 23, 2017, 10:07:22 AM
Nic Fromm Eureka had a copy of the ARBM Book at CANCON in late Jan. Had a quick flip through it and it looked excellent. Unforntaely they could not given me a release date, but can't be too far off. Very keen to  get my hands on this.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Ewan on February 23, 2017, 01:32:25 PM
Hopefully he might bring along a copy to Salute in April 😊
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Sheerluck Holmes on November 25, 2017, 09:40:06 PM
Any news on when the book is coming out? Having looked at a copy at Eureka Miniatures last year, I am very keen to get this.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on November 25, 2017, 09:49:21 PM
Nothing firm, but latest I heard was "by Christmas". It will be announced by Eureka Miniatures I imagine.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: Matthewc451 on December 14, 2017, 04:36:49 AM
Hi Folks,

Brief note.

A Right Bloody Mess has finally arrived from the Printer!!

The courier dropped off two cartons yesterday morning, just in time for the Eureka open days on this Friday/Saturday. (15-16/12/17)

I have had a brief look and everything appears to be in its correct place. I ordered two cartons having not seen a final proof so my anxiety levels were a little high. Fortunately I have little beige pills for that.

I will start a new thread later today. It will include the Table of Contents so folks can get an idea of the scope covered by the book.

BTW both the 1932 Lang Affair and the 1933 secession leading to civil war are covered.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AV7_anFjfic/WioBXhjgTeI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/NtQlCpnNK9UCw1VfyoM314USwezMbV5XwCLcBGAs/s1600/ARBM%2BCover%2BImage%2B-%2B1st%2BEdition.jpg)

Matt
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: von Lucky on December 14, 2017, 06:46:58 AM
Excellent news Matt, I won't be able to make it, but I will try and pick it up in the new year in the shop or at Cancon.
Title: Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
Post by: wharfedalehome on January 26, 2018, 12:44:49 PM
This is a book review of A Right Bloody Mess by Matthew Clarkson. I don’t normally write reviews of, well, anything. I think that if a product is good enough it should sell itself. I know that in an age of mass media and image building this is very much a minority view. So be it. However I think that A Right Bloody Mess (ARBM) is truly exceptional and deserves acknowledging and widespread exposure - hence the review!

The book blurb elegantly and succinctly summarises the entire book for me, so I quote it in full:

Welcome to A Right Bloody Mess, an alternate history of civil war in Australia during the 1930s. A Right Bloody Mess provides you with everything you need to know about the first year of the Australia War, the events leading up to the crisis and its participants. A Right Bloody Mess is a plausible, alternate-reality sandbox environment bursting with historical detail. Created by a wargamer for wargamers, this volume is full of comprehensive information about Australia in the early 1930s and the factions involved in the conflict.

These are ambitious claims I think you’ll agree. But the truth is, Matt delivers these and more with style. OK, enough of the effusion. Here’s the nitty gritty:

Title: A Right Bloody Mess
Author: Matthew Clarkson
Price: £45 / A$80 + postage (you need to ask for local rates as it varies considerably)
Publisher: self published, Australia 2017
Distributor: http://www.eurekamin.com.au/ or direct from the author at: ARBM1933@iinet.net.au
Importer to UK: None at present (but it really deserves somebody to get behind this exceptional product)
Support & Information: from the author at: http://arbm1933.blogspot.co.uk/
Format: hard back, 6” x 9” (your regular hardback book size).
Pages: 275 pages (there is probably more information in this one volume than has been published on all of VBCW in 10 years. OK, this is not a competition, I’m just trying to give you an idea of what you get for your money).
Quality: professionally bound, with colourful dust jacket, beautifully printed on semi-gloss sepia paper (gives it a very 1930s feel), lavishly illustrated with hundreds of images (troops, models, flags, equipment, interesting places, personages, maps, plans – you name it)
Contents: The contents are broken down into 6 sections:
• Section 1 – An Overview of the Australian War (background on Australia in the 1930s, the constitutional crisis over funding that provides the “what if” trigger [ie: like the Edward Abdication crisis in Britain for VBCW] that led to the kidnapping of New South Wales’ Premier, Jack Lang on 13th May 1932 by the New Guard [ie: the “what if”], and what subsequently happened)
• Section 2 – Australian Armed Forces Pre-Secession (a breakdown of Australia’s army, navy and air force in the 1930s including their equipment and weapons, details of civilian weapons and equipment that could be pressed into service)
• Section 3 – Descent Into Chaos (commentary on the factionalisation that led to war, how troops might be organised equipped and uniformed, model figures that you can use or adapt)
• Section 4 – Faction Guide (a long and imaginative list of factions that you could organise anywhere from the towns of New South Wales and Victoria to the outback of South Australia or Westralia. Factions cover left wing union and political groups, state organisations such as police, criminal gangs, right wing extremists as well as immigrant groups and more)
• Section 5 – Wargaming ARBM (using and adapting miniatures, useful rules to model ARBM, setting up scenarios and campaigns, how to play skirmish, platoon ands regimental sized games, how to add roleplaying elements, two fully fleshed out examples of Factions from Section 4)
• Section 6 – Additional Information (the use of Morale and Quality in an Aussie setting, Primitive 30s technology, raising Militia units, taking the history beyond the opening year of 1933, designer notes, useful links)

This is a work of love by Matt and a real thing of beauty. It is an inspiring, fun and intriguing wargame book on a believable, exciting and new campaign. So if you want to know what happened to Jack Lang, figure out who are the New Guard, want to lead the Australian Light Horse into battle or fancy tooling up an old roadster and screaming across the dusty tracks of the Big Red then get this book. Read it and you’ll be hooked, trust me. It’s like VBCW meets Back of Beyond with a dose of Mad Max thrown in. If you think VBCW is a little unhinged and jolly good fun then your Kangaroos will be loose in the top paddock when you’ve read ARBM.

Once in a generation a wargame book sets new standards. ARBM does this and more with it’s novel approach, its exciting ideas and its bravura performance. For me this sits up there with the best - Featherstone's and Bath’s early stuff of the 60s and 70s. Go on treat yourself, you’ll be pleased you did.