Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Charlie_ on August 22, 2015, 12:47:10 PM
-
Hello all,
Some of you may have seen a few of my threads over the past few weeks, about returning to the wargaming hobby after 10 years away. I'll be using this one thread to track all my progress from now on.
I was a Warhammer Fantasy Battles player many years ago, and gave it up for the same reasons most people do (time, costs, lack of enthusastic opponents, etc). I've always kept interested though, and have watched the changes happening in the Games Workshop side of the hobby. Recently I've come to the conclusion that what GW now offers has pretty much ZERO that appeals to me. I've always liked the gritty, realistic, believable side of fantasy, rather than the over-the-top comic book side of it. So goodbye GW!
And hello George R R Martin. Like many (most?) of us, I was hooked by the HBO series Game Of Thrones, and put off reading the books as I thought it would spoil the show for me. Well this year I could put it off no loner and dived into the books. Yes, the show is no longer so great. But my god, what good books! A Song Of Ice And Fire has everything that I like in fantasy, and it would make sense that if I ever returned to wargaming it would be via Westeros.
So why is this in the Medieval section, not the Fantasy section? Well when I say I like my fantasy realistic, I mean it! So though the medieval army I plan to raise will be set in GRRM's world, the only way that really will come across is through the flags and heraldry. In all other respects, this project will be a 15th century European one. Actually, it will be flexible. 90% of my miniatures are going to be in neutral, adaptable colours, with just characters and banners there to help assign them to factions (either real world or fantasy). But more on that at a later date.
And like many (most??) of you here, I am a big fan of Perry Miniatures. Their War Of The Roses range is perfect, as that's always been my favourite medieval era, and over 5 plastic box sets they have pretty much everything covered. Looks like a converter's dream!
So with this log I plan to share with you my progress from start to... well, however far this takes me, of a late medieval project, using mostly Perry's plastic kits (thanks to many other threads here for really inspiring me to go this route). To be used for both historical and Westeros purposes. And hopefully sometime in the future I'll be able to rope some of my friends in to play some games!
So with all that planned out, I made some purchases. I already had some Citadel paints and some old Citadel miniatures knocking about, so I got some stuff to complete my new hobby workstation (which can be hastily packed away when I need to eat - that's my dining table!).
(http://i.imgur.com/KNNFILp.jpg)
As you can see, I also purchases a lightbox so I can hopefully get some good quality photos. I went for Vallejo Game Colour for the new paints, as I can't bring myself to use the ridiculous names GW now uses for all its products. As of now my paint collection is a mix of the two.
I've started painting up some of my old Citadel miniatures to give my brush skills some practice - see what I came up with at my other thread here (which will be updated sporadically with any random Citadel things I do on the side). Currently finished - some vintage wood elves and a Mordheim freelance knight.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=81657.0
Against some good advice I got here, I ordered the Perry kits from Wayland Games. A week later, I give them a call - apparently my order won't be shipped til the end of the next week! Impatient, I went and ordered a couple of the kits elsewhere to get me started. I went for Renedra, as I also needed lots of bases from them, and it arrived the next day!
(http://i.imgur.com/mmrVRtn.jpg)
I went for the Bows & Bills and the Light Cavalry sets as I thought between the two of them it would give me lots of scope for converting and kit-bashing.
Next post - my first attempts!
-
Ok, so I weathered the glue fumes and got stuck in.
Wow, these things are delicate! You can bend those spears just by looking at them funny! Luckily I haven't broken anything yet.
(http://i.imgur.com/N1viHjk.jpg)
Here are two archers and a billman. I love the huge variety of heads and the subtle differences in the body poses. It means every figure comes up with its own character and story, beyond what I plan for it. I really love the look and pose of the guy in the middle, but you can't really make it out that well with this pic. Obviously I'm gonna be making a lot of archers and billmen, this is just a selection.
(http://i.imgur.com/mn5oJ5Q.jpg)
A cavalryman. These are some fine horses! I've alreay made quite a lot of these spear-armed horsemen, this is just the first one I did. They look so natural and dynamic with spears lowered for the charge...
(http://i.imgur.com/0sAuNGI.jpg)
Some sort of mounted officer, perhaps a messenger, or perhaps he's just dropped his spear. These kits are gonna give me lots of scope for making characters and command figures.
(http://i.imgur.com/mLNDjIQ.jpg)
My first kit-bash! The crossbow arms are from the cavalry box. I really like the pose and face combo on this guy, it looks like he's got his mind on something else as he takes a walk, or perhaps he's scanning the floor trying to find his quiver which he seems to have misplaced...
(http://i.imgur.com/1APU4sX.jpg)
And another kitbash, to make a spearman. I quite like the result, and plan to make a group of these guys. Though to do so means using lots of the rare and precious spear-arms from the cavalry set. I'm thinking they will look good with large shields / pavises (which I'll have to wait for the mercenaries box to get hold of).
(http://i.imgur.com/9RgA1Jj.jpg)
And this is an experiment with basing, to build up the base before priming. The billman has a mix of PVA and sand, the crossbowman has a mix of PVA and flour. We will let them dry and see how they both turn out.
So far I am very impressed with these kits, and am enjoying myself immensely. Things are only going to get more fun when my Wayland Games order finally arrives, giving me foot knights, mounted men at arms, European mercenaries and the Agincourt set!
I'm also really liking the thin Renedra bases. Having been used to GW slotta-bases, these make a very nice change.
One thing I found tricky was assembling the bill arms which come in two pieces. I much prefer the pose these ones give, but lining them up sometimes doesn't work and requires some shaving / repositioning. Any tips? Also annoyingly there are only two of these such arm pairs per frame.
Another thing is attaching all the sword-and-buckler pieces, which I'm aware that most billmen and archers require. Depending on how I've positioned the arms, these can be tricky to find a place for.
-
You've made a good start in a popular genre.I'll watch your progress with interest. As you mentioned the variety you can get from the Perry wotr sets is vast but have you considered their hundred years war set with more to follow in 2016? Or the fireforge medieval sets? Or northstar's frostgrave soldiers? Or even dark age sets from gripping beast, wargames factory and conquest. The number of plastic medieval and dark age sets now on the market are vast. Others have mix and marched them all together to give more individual variety and to vary the look of their armies for GoT i.e. to help give the north a more rustic older look of equipment while Lannister and Tyrell get the more modern look. Thanks for sharing
-
You've made a good start in a popular genre.I'll watch your progress with interest. As you mentioned the variety you can get from the Perry wotr sets is vast but have you considered their hundred years war set with more to follow in 2016? Or the fireforge medieval sets? Or northstar's frostgrave soldiers? Or even dark age sets from gripping beast, wargames factory and conquest. The number of plastic medieval and dark age sets now on the market are vast. Others have mix and marched them all together to give more individual variety and to vary the look of their armies for GoT i.e. to help give the north a more rustic older look of equipment while Lannister and Tyrell get the more modern look. Thanks for sharing
I have indeed looked at incorporating the other ranges you've mentioned. I think I'm gonna get the gripping beast dark age wariors at some point, to get hold of some bare bearded heads, and use the bodies perhaps with Perry heads and weapons to make some sort of light infantry / skirmishers, perhaps mercenaries from the Free Cities? I probably won't go for the Frostgrave ones, too 'cartoony' for my liking. And I will definitely be getting one of the new Perry HYW sets when it is released, at the very least it will be used as a source of bits and weapons. I've got the English set on order, not sure yet how well it will mix in with the WOTR sets, we will see.
I'm actually not going to be going for the popular Stark and Lannister factions, and have no plans for The North any day soon. But we'll discuss what Houses I will be doing when it comes to painting!
-
Great start, well done Charlie_
Yes, despite the generally briiliant design and engineering of the components, those polearms where you have to attach a wrist to a hand which is moulded onto a haft, are never quite spot on. They always seem to misalign very slightly, so you do need to douse liberally with poly cement to conceal the shonky join.
One more suggestion: it's pretty easy to slice any arm at the elbow or wrist and do a partial limb swap. So, if, for instance, you didn't want to use the light cavalry brigandine arms carrying a spear, to be in that posture, you can always just slice the hand off at the gauntlet and reposition it slightly, or replace with an entirely different gauntleted hand with a different weapon from any of the sets. Depends how adventurous you want to be with your conversions, but hand swaps are dead easy, and give you a vast new range of options, above and beyond what you can already achieve simply by intermixing components :)
Good luck!
-
Good luck with your new project, Charlie. This is a great period to do.
-
I've got to add, that as well as having come very nice conversions/builds there it's great to see someone throw themselves into a project with such enthusiasm and zest 8) 8) 8).
Keep up the great work!
Darrell.
-
Thanks for the interest, folks. I should have the first couple of test paintjobs to show in a day or two!
Captain - yes I will be doing lots of hand-swaps for sure. I haven't needed to yet, but as soon as some of the other kits arrive the conversion potential will increase hugely, and hand-swaps will abound!
I have a question for you actually, regarding poly cement. I've seen you mention a few times how you brush it on to help dissolve mould-lines. How easy it it to clean from brushes? Does it just need a good rinse in water, or does it require a special cleaning fluid? Will it ruin my brushes, or would I be fine using my usual ones as long as I clean them well?
You have mentioned brushing it between fingers to help remove those extra-awkward mould-lines. That sounds seriously fiddly!
-
I have a question for you actually, regarding poly cement. I've seen you mention a few times how you brush it on to help dissolve mould-lines. How easy it it to clean from brushes? Does it just need a good rinse in water, or does it require a special cleaning fluid? Will it ruin my brushes, or would I be fine using my usual ones as long as I clean them well?
You have mentioned brushing it between fingers to help remove those extra-awkward mould-lines. That sounds seriously fiddly!
Now that is a good question- do you mean with a brush that's supplied with the cement Richard?
Darrell.
-
Now that is a good question- do you mean with a brush that's supplied with the cement Richard?
It's much too big, isn't it?
I've got both version of the poly cement, the brush pot and the needle applicator.
-
It's much too big, isn't it?
To be honest, I don't know.... maybe there's a product out there with a thinner brush?
Darrell.
-
I just squeeze a little from the needle applicator onto a palette, and then use an old 0 brush to slap it on. Leave it for a few seconds to start to soften the surface of the plastic, then use the brush to brush away the mould line. Add a bit more cement as you go if you need to. I clean my brush afterwards in Humbrol enamel thinners and it comes up good as new, although to be fair, I have a stack of old brushes I keep for rough non-painting jobs like this. Pretty sure white spirit, meths, or any other type of spirit based cleaner would get rid of the residual poly cement in the brush just as well, although I certainly wouldn't use my best new 10-0 paintbrush for slopping on glue :)
-
very good start indeed !! Will follow your progress closely.
-
It's a great fresh start! I often ask myself a question "what would I do if I'd be starting the hobby NOW?" and something like this is my answer.
Now to your plan, I have a question and I am quite curious about the answer. What noble house(es) army are you going to build? I am just curious about your prefferences. I am as well in the process of building new historical army and tempted by using them for Westeros as well (in my case it's Anglo-Saxon army from 11th Century... would be great Greyjoy army).
Medieval projects are great just because Dan Merseys awesome Lion Rampant ruleset.
-
Now to your plan, I have a question and I am quite curious about the answer. What noble house(es) army are you going to build? I am just curious about your prefferences. I am as well in the process of building new historical army and tempted by using them for Westeros as well (in my case it's Anglo-Saxon army from 11th Century... would be great Greyjoy army).
Well, as you've asked...
I'm going to base this project around the Riverlands. It's a region that has loads of potential for conflicts and different match-ups. Seems whenever there is a war in Westeros, the Riverlands suffer the most as they are right in the middle and have no natural defences such as mountains. So this is going to be House Tully and their vassals.
This is particularly useful, as there are times when the Tullys had to fight their own vassals. During Robert's Rebellion, not all of the Riverlords followed Hoster Tully in supporting the Arryns, Starks and Baratheons, and remained loyal to the crown. So before he could join the war, Tully had to defeat some of his own people in battle.
This means there are several houses I can feature who can be used either as part of the main army or as opponents.
So there will be lots of Tully flags and commanders, along with Mallister, Bracken, Blackwood, Mooton, Vance and others, plus a few generic flags of my own devising.
Below from left to right.... Mallister, Bracken, and two of my own.
(http://i.imgur.com/F4ZTmJf.jpg)
-
Wow, you gave it lots of thought and research.
-
Wow, you gave it lots of thought and research.
Of course!
Ok, update time. I've been busy constructing lots of toy soldiers. Here's a few of my favourites in terms of posture and character....
(http://i.imgur.com/hy0TUWU.jpg)
I've got hold of the mounted men at arms box now, so have more options (the hammer and helmet from the standard bearer are from this kit).
(http://i.imgur.com/hy7Es8H.jpg)
And here's the total as it stands right now. Defending the holy teapot...
(http://i.imgur.com/V4xYqMA.jpg)
And here are the first finished test paintjobs! I'm pretty happy. The red isn't relevant to any factions or uniforms, just thought I'd try the same colour on both models. The basing isn't quite finished, as I'm still waiting on some static grass.
(http://i.imgur.com/8c9NkjQ.jpg)
Now I'm going to start a bigger batch of 5 or 6 models, with more variety in colours. See you later!
-
nice paint job
-
Very nice work
-
They look great :)
-
It is all looking very nice.
If this is your first paintjob in 10 years I might hate you a little bit though...
-
Wow, impressive stuff! I always like GOT projects so I'm definitely going to follow this!
-
Thanks all!
-
Progressing nicely
-
Works for me :)
-
Works for me :)
Ditto :)
Darrell.
-
Well, here's some more from you. Really getting back into the swing of painting now.
This one features my first encounter will full plate armour! That's a lot of silver, and not much else. I really like the 'neutral' colours of the billman, meaning he can be added to the ranks of any faction easily. Obviously the standard bearer is awaiting a flag for his pole.
(http://i.imgur.com/agm3En4.jpg)
Two archers. Again, the neutral tones on the guy on the right came out really well I think. And I really like the green on the other chap, I'll have to do some more in this colour and come up with a lord with green and white heraldry for them to serve! Painting skin and the off-white sleeves has been by and far the most enjoyable and satisfying part of it so far.
(http://i.imgur.com/wexmca7.jpg)
And here's the whole gang as it stands right now.
(http://i.imgur.com/93X311R.jpg)
-
Nicely painted bunch.good idea doing some in neutral colours to switch between factions
-
Looking good. Like the basing too.
-
Very good :)
cheers
James
-
Thanks everyone! The next batch of five is ready to be primed.
Like the basing too.
Interesting you should mention that, as I really wasn't sure about it on the first couple of figs. It's ever so simple, just two layers of sand, left unpainted (just sealed with PVA with a drop of brown paint in it), followed by patches of static grass. I wanted something quick and easy as I will be basing lots of these guys. But seeing those finished seven, I think it's worked out nicely! I will stick with this technique.
-
very nice start indeed! And as the captain said the basing is very good
-
Here we go, five more painted. I stuck with neutral colours for all of them except the archer in green and white livery. I'm pleasantly surprised with the dark grey jack on the billmen - I'll do some more like that for sure (I thought I'd screwed it up, it was originally gonna be a lighter grey).
(http://i.imgur.com/B76KgGE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4GZA0lN.jpg)
-
very nice and very fast ;)
-
this thread has made me get my wotr stuff out again, great work
-
very nice and very fast ;)
Well, I've got a whole army to build, and quite a bit of spare time right now, so I'm getting stuck in!!!
Today my order from Wayland Games finally arrived, three weeks and a day after I ordered it. So I now have all six Perry medieval kits, and the conversion potential has hugely increased!
First off I have used the Mercenaries box to build these three.
(http://i.imgur.com/k9TPpZZ.jpg)
The two-handed sword chap is a straight build from the Mercenaries command frame.
The one in the middle required a number of cuts... The right arm is from the mercenaries command frame, the hand and weapon shaft is from the light cavalry set, and the weapon head (is it a glaive?) is from the mercenaries kit again. The head is from the mounted men at arms. Having the extra polearm weapon heads in the mercenaries box is going to be very useful for things like this!
The last one uses the sword-hand I chopped off the right arm from the last guy, and arms from the light cavalry set.
I also had another delivery today, from Flags Of War.
(http://i.imgur.com/zIPDwX0.jpg)
I had planned for one of these to go on the standard bearer I have already painted and posted above, but... shock, horror, the flag is too big! Or the flagpole is too small.....
But with all the spare spears and pikes I now have hanging around it is no problem to lengthen flagpoles. I used the spare spear I had chopped in half to make the glaive guy above to lengthen his flagpole. It's now long enough to take the flag! Pictures soon hopefully.
(http://i.imgur.com/O8Tl3KS.jpg)
I was worried if I'd be able to get the two pole halves to sit together flush and straight, but it was easier than expected, and anyway the join will be covered by the flag so it doesn't have to look too neat.
-
Good progress Charile, and interesting builds.
-
Interesting that you've added to the haft rather than replace it completely. I'm assuming you've pinned the, together?
cheers
James
-
Interesting that you've added to the haft rather than replace it completely. I'm assuming you've pinned the, together?
cheers
James
Quite brave either way! I just lop off spears and replace them with wire as a matter of course....
-
Great progress and great variety
-
Great progress and great variety
Seconded.
I find plastic banner staves a little too fragile and generally replace them with wire.
-
Actually, I've never actually used wire for spears and banner poles. Perhaps now it is time for me to learn?
I think the standard bearer above can be a test run, to see how he holds up. I'm thinking having the paper banner wrapped and glued around the pole will strengthen it, but we will see.
If anyone could direct me to a good tutorial for replacing plastic spears with wire ones, it would be appreciated!
A pack of these looks very useful.
http://store.warlordgames.com/collections/hail-caesar-armoury/products/80mm-metal-pikes-50
Also on the subject of the banners, has anyone here used Citadel Six? It looks like just what I need, as he does commission work for designing heraldry, which will be perfect for some of the more obscure ASOIAF houses I plan to use, and some houses of my own invention. He provides waterslide transfers to go on brass foil banners, supplied with a wire banner pole as well. I plan to commission him to do me a set of several banners, no transfers for shields or livery jackets required. I emailed him a while ago but have yet to get a reply.
-
So, I've been having fun combining all six kits to make some interesting characters.
First, my thoughts on a couple of the kits.
Foot Knights - This set is obviously fantastic, however I think there are only so many ways you can have a man at arms in full plate armour with a poleaxe before they all start to look the same. You do get a full 38 figures in this one, so I will be in no hurry to assemble them all with poleaxes any time soon. Luckily it means you get 6 of each weapon. Cutting weapon heads off and transplanting them to different sets of arms is a very easy conversion, and I'm going to be doing a lot of this. For example, there is only one warhammer in the set (x6), so wouldn't it be a waste to have the same arms wielding it every time? The head can easily be cut off and put on all sorts of other arms.
Agincourt To Orleans - I'd heard how the figures in this one are slightly taller, and it's definitely true! So much in fact that I really don't think I'll be using the bodies much at all. I put one of the archer bodies together with some bill-wielding arms from the WOTR set, and he towers over all the other billmen. Combined with the archaic clothing and armour, it really makes him stand out. However the arms and extra bits in this set are invaluable! In particular some of the man-at-arms weapons, though frustratingly you only get two of each, so I will have to use them carefully.
Here are some of the new builds I've made I'm really pleased with.
This chap on the left is obviously gonna be some sort of general. The arms are from the mercenaries command sprue, on a foot knight body. The fellow to his right uses the weapon head-swapping I was talking about - the poleaxe is from the WOTR command sprue, but with the warhammer head from the foot knights. He does maybe look like he's grabbing his crotch though... I'd quite like to make a few of these guys in standing poses to act as a bodyguard for the leader, though there are only a few fully armoured bodies to choose from that aren't walking.
(http://i.imgur.com/uuHWVNl.jpg)
And here are three veteran retainers. The first on the left features arms from the WOTR set, but with an axe-head from the foot knights set to make a brutal looking double-handed axe.
The other two both feature spear-arms from the Agincourt To Orleans set, the one in the middle having had the speartip replaced by one of the polearm heads from the WOTR command frame.
(http://i.imgur.com/sEGOvri.jpg)
That's it for today, building them has distracted me from painting a bit, now that I've at least sampled every set I need to knuckle down and get painting!
-
Very nice kitbashing. Particularly like the middle chap at the bottom.
As you are no doubt finding, the building of new figures is terribly addictive, and pushes painting backwards ::)
I know how it feels, trust me :)
-
Nice conversions. I recently bought another box of the basic infantry, partly to increase my stock of individually based WOTR figures to play Lion Rampant as well as ACOP and partly to try some conversions with the bits from the light cavalry and men at arms boxes.
-
Actually, I've never actually used wire for spears and banner poles. Perhaps now it is time for me to learn?
If anyone could direct me to a good tutorial for replacing plastic spears with wire ones, it would be appreciated!
Personally, I was never too devoted to wire spears, although I haven't had long experience with either type. I've used them if that was the most convenient source for the minis (metal ones, usually) or as replacements for broken plastic spears (rarely), but then I've also fashioned the odd replacement spear from styrene rod (http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/Historical/Ealdorman01.jpg.html). I think I just prefer the moulded heads and 'heft' of plastic spears - I'll be using metal rod for some high elf spearmen, but mostly because I can pin the chunky plastic heads back on. Otherwise I'm looking with interest at the Fireforge plastic spears. I might change my mind if those turn out too fragile.
But I digress. It's fun watching your kitbashes as well as doing them. :) And those metals are impressive. Did you mention what paint of method you used with those?
-
Otherwise I'm looking with interest at the Fireforge plastic spears. I might change my mind if those turn out too fragile.
I was thinking those Fireforge spears look rather chunky? But I've only seen them in the box, not actually in use.
As for the metals - couldn't be easier! GW Mithril Silver, followed by an appropriately watered down black ink, then just careful Mithril Silver highlights again to neaten things up.
-
Well, here it is in all its glory! The colours of House Tully!
(http://i.imgur.com/mcwy92E.jpg)
It's from Flags Of War, their 'fantasy medieval fish banner' of course. Gotta say it's very nice, this is actually my first time ever using a printed paper flag like this, wasn't quite sure how it would turn out. I'm very pleased! I even messed it up a bit cutting it out, and was pleasantly surprised to find how easy painting over the white edges was to neaten it up.
The set included two identical flags, so the other one will be carried by a mounted man at arms at a later date.
Meanwhile, here's the latest four from the paintbench. Took longer than I wanted as I was distracted by other things.
(http://i.imgur.com/11OgSik.jpg)
I also bought lots of movement trays from Warbases. I will be using a Warhammer-based system, hence the 20mm bases, and purchases loads of movement trays for all all formations I am likely to be using.... 3x5, 3x6, 4x6, etc etc... They are lasercut MDF, and very nice indeed. Not sure how I'm gonna paint them yet - just spray them black, or texture them the same way as I have been doing the individual bases?
Also, there's something I've been wondering about in terms of men at arms. The archer to MAA ratio has been debated to death, but what about bills to MAA? I'm thinking about this because the idea of having all the dismounted MAA fighting together as one unit just doesn't seem right. Surely they would be spread out among the lightly-armoured billmen? Or maybe not - would all the English nobility actually stand shoulder to shoulder in their full plate armour and wield their pole-axes together?
I've been constructing a lot of heavily armoured infantry for an elite unit, but the idea of all of them in full plate just doesn't seem right to me. Which explains some of the conversions I've posted previously - veteran retainers who are more heavily equipped and experienced than the average billman, but don't have access to a full harness. I don't want to just use all the bodies from the Foot Knights set either - there are definitely some I like much more than others.
If a MAA wasn't a knight, how likely was he to have access to a full suit of plate?
Would the nobility provide good quality armour for particularly loyal and long-serving veteran retainers?
Would the MAA be fighting together, or each leading groups of billmen?
Any thoughts about 15th century infantry would be welcome, not just English but European as well.
-
Well that seemingly simple question is a massive can of worms, which has indeed been argued to death and back again - mainly because the evidence is so tenuous, that in summary, nobody knows. So you can take a view, but the truth is, best to do what looks right to you.
Like you, I'm doubtful that the wealthiest men able to afford full plate (referred to as 'harness' and 'white armour' in the day) banded together into units. Seems much more likely to me that these well off, upper class types, fought along with their men, who were probably less well armoured to varying degrees. Acting as leaders, shock troops, and stiffeners of resolve. But I don't think you'll hear anything on the matter that hasn't already been said here: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=59060.0
It would be better to avoid having the same old debate all over again in your thread here - that's why we've got the sticky :)
-
Well that seemingly simple question is a massive can of worms, which has indeed been argued to death and back again - mainly because the evidence is so tenuous, that in summary, nobody knows. So you can take a view, but the truth is, best to do what looks right to you.
Like you, I'm doubtful that the wealthiest men able to afford full plate (referred to as 'harness' and 'white armour' in the day) banded together into units. Seems much more likely to me that these well off, upper class types, fought along with their men, who were probably less well armoured to varying degrees. Acting as leaders, shock troops, and stiffeners of resolve. But I don't think you'll hear anything on the matter that hasn't already been said here: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=59060.0
It would be better to avoid having the same old debate all over again in your thread here - that's why we've got the sticky :)
Ahhh yes, that thread. I've read through that all before, and looking through it again it's got some very interesting things within!
I think I'm going to go with quite low numbers of full plate - it's going to take a very long time for me to use up all the bodies in the Foot Knights box, whilst I will keep on making billmen and bowmen.
Here's my latest four.
(http://i.imgur.com/0gnqKbx.jpg)
These area some of my favourite kitbash conversions I have done lately. All feature parts from across various kits. The sword-and-buckler man uses arms from the Agincourt To Orleans set, which fit very nicely onto the WOTR sets.
-
Yes indeed, i did pretty much the same thing with the sword and buckler man. That spearman also works extremely well though. Keep 'em coming :)
-
Keep 'em coming :)
Ok!
(http://i.imgur.com/cdJJGYp.jpg)
Lots of steel on this batch.
The banner uses an old Citadel transfer, part of a bulk set I got off ebay. I will be using these for more simple heraldry like this to represent 'anonymous' houses to be used for any faction.
Here's a question... The chap with the 2-handed sword. Is that supposed to be drawn from the empty scabbard provided in the foot knights set, which I've used here? It's a little too long if you put them side by side. Or do you think he would carry the 2-handed sword, and have another sword as a side-arm? The difference in length between the single and 2-handed swords really isn't much.
-
Lovely updates. On one piece metal models I have seen a regular sword in hip scabbard while they wield another two handed, while on others I have seen a two handed strapped to their back while they wield sword and shield and have an empty hip scabbard. Saying that I'm sure there must be some where the two handed sword is their only weapon so perhaps they may carry them at the hip? Whatever the case historically this is for a fantasy-medieval theme so I'd say go with what feels right for you. Thanks for sharing
-
So, a lot of the Perry WOTR metal figures are nothing special when you consider that you can pretty much make them with the plastic kits. However there are some which you can't (or at least I can't!), and one which I really liked the look of was the standing men at arms with polearms. They are in cool poses, leaning on their pollaxes. So I got the set, the first bit of metal to add to the plastic mountain.
This next batch features the first of them painted. I've gotta say after working with plastic for a while, metal is a nightmare! Plastic is just so much 'cleaner', if you know what I mean. But still, I really love this model, and I think he came out great! Beside him is one of my earlier conversions who I am also extra happy with - I liked the combination of equipment I put together for him, but thought it might be wasted on his boring pose. But I think the colours have made him work great! Also one little breakthrough for me here - I've managed to successful paint a bit of stubble on their faces. Lots of my soldiers from now on will be sporting 5 o clock shadows! I might even go back and add it to some of the earlier ones who I think it will suit.
(http://i.imgur.com/0OS07H0.jpg)
And here's three less interesting ones from the same batch.
(http://i.imgur.com/5WsHU3G.jpg)
That's now 30 minis painted! Another batch or two and I think it will be time for a group shot.
-
Nice work Charlie :-*
Darrell.
-
Lovely figures, looking forward to your cavalry. :)
-
Very nice - well done :-*
What colour & brand are you using for your silver Highlight on the armour?
-
Great additions. Thanks for sharing
-
Thank you all!
What colour & brand are you using for your silver Highlight on the armour?
The only silver I'm using is Citadel Mithril Silver. For all the armour I just basecoat with this, then carefully black ink, then neaten up / highlight with Mithril Silver again.
Lovely figures, looking forward to your cavalry. :)
Er yes, I suppose I'm looking forward to painting all those horses as well! o_o
-
Nicely done Charlie_
Yes, the metal figures are pretty crude compared to the plastic figures - although strangely, once painted up, they look just as good.
And yes, I've painted around 50 cavalry, and the horses are, sad to admit, an absolute chore... :(
(I actually enjoy painting the horseflesh, but all the tack is a ruddy, fiddly palaver... And I've got another 10 to do on the paint table right now... Putting them off... )
-
All very interesting Charlie, an good thread to follow.
I like your painting style and your kit-bashing is producing some very fine mini's.
-
Looking good. :) I think Captain Blood has a point - I'd be hard-pressed to tell these from the plastic minis after you've painted them.
I've managed to successful paint a bit of stubble on their faces. Lots of my soldiers from now on will be sporting 5 o clock shadows!
There's a point. I take it clean-shaven was the fashion in 15thC western europe? Not much face fungus going round?
And congrats. :D
-
Stunning collection!
-
Thanks for all the comments guys!
Five more, a grim looking bunch. I'm very please with the swordsman - the arms are from the 100 Years War set.
(http://i.imgur.com/ttPs3H4.jpg)
And here's a couple of conversions I came up with.... I wanted to make use of the bodies from the 100 years war set, but as the heads aren't separate and couldn't really be replaced without skilled sculpting work (the joys of bascinets and aventails), I was struggling to see how I would. I've done one with WOTR arms, but he looks far too 'archaic' amongst the others for my liking.
But I've found they are very easy to cut through the waist, separating the torso from the legs. I can do the same with the WOTR foot knight set, and voila....
(http://i.imgur.com/S66eg3E.jpg)
They don't look like anything special, but doing this gives me even more options for bodies in full harness. The one on the right gives me another standing pose, great for command figures, and the one on the left gives a great new running pose. They both just need some minor green stuff work to fill the gaps, but its pretty much a clean cut on both of them above the swordbelt. I think the one on the left has worked the best, and I'll be matching those same legs with that torso at least once more...
So technically the leg armour is 'out of fashion', but who's gonna notice?
Also, I got some movement trays custom made from Warbases. I always found archers annoying to rank up, even when modelled to have the front rank firing and the second rank not. They just seem to be stepping on each other's heels.... They need space to fire those longbow!!! I asked warbases about making me some trays with a 10mm gap between ranks, and they said.... Not a problem! I've got lots of them made, 2 deep with frontages from 5 to 10 wide... And also some single rank ones, which can be added to make three rank units as well. I have a box full of movement trays which are gonna cover pretty much any formation I wanna put my units into.
The custom designed tray you can see on the bottom left. I cannot recommend warbases enough - not only will they make ANY size or configuration of laser-cut base and movement tray you want, but their prices are very affordable!
(http://i.imgur.com/PZX1wD7.jpg)
-
Thanks for the tips about the conversions. I had not thought of cutting the figures at the waist -it gives me some new options to play with;)
Warbases are a great company as you say.
I have bought movement trays for my Agincourt Project, Swiss Burgundy Project and Modern Skirmish from Warbases.
They are very good, affordable and quick.
I received the Warbases casualty markers yeterday so I will do some converted figures for them.
-
Goodness me, nearly a month without an update? My pace has slowed a little through October as I've been rather busy with work, but I'm back on track now!
So, where were we....
I now need to stop playing around with making interesting characters and start bulking out the core infantry.
I decided I needed more painted up in the House Tully colours of red and blue....
(http://i.imgur.com/CHVbQsu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eSwiTAb.jpg)
This one is a metal Perry, from their WOTR standard bearers set.
(http://i.imgur.com/gtavbqU.jpg)
And some 'neutrals'...
(http://i.imgur.com/acvC6eD.jpg)
I now have enough billmen/halberdiers and archers to start putting them together into formation!
(http://i.imgur.com/GGYS592.jpg)
I also placed an order with Crusadar miniatures. Their 'War Of The Roses' range (perhaps '15th century' would be a better label) looked really good to me, and potentially great to mix in with the Perrys. Well, it arrived the other day, and I'm very impressed! Very nice models. And notably 'cleaner' metal when compared to the Perry metals - barely any cleanup needed, no missing details, etc... In particular the archers look fantastic, and the 'pikemen' are gonna make great standard bearers, of which I am going to need a lot. Looking forward to painting these!
(http://i.imgur.com/Yiei7vN.jpg)
And in other news, I've been designing my own banners, and think I have finally 'cracked it'. I went and got these printed off today, and am very happy. The next batch will feature a few flags. Some of these are GoT houses from the Riverlands, whereas others are 'generic' ones I've made up myself (some of which I will give names and histories to, so they can be placed in the GoT world).
(http://i.imgur.com/TzOGhcs.jpg)
-
A worthy update 8)
cheers
James
-
Another great update, thanks
-
Coming on apace now. The Crusader longbowman does look surprisingly good.
-
nice update indeed
-
Thanks guys!
Here's the latest batch, featuring a few interesting things.
(http://i.imgur.com/aX71hK7.jpg)
Some more soldiers for House Tully. The banner we have already seen in a larger size... If you remember, the 'fantasy fish banners' I got from Flags Of War was fantastic but surprisingly large, so it did not actually fit onto the banner poles that come with the Perry kits. It works fine for a main army standard, but as I'm going to have lots of these flags spread across the army, I asked Iain at Flags Of War if it was possible to get it in smaller sizes as well. He said no problem, so I got some in 30mm and 20mm square. This is the 20mm one.
The archer on the far right is one of the Crusader Miniatures metals. I really like how he came out! I'm definitely gonna be painting up more of these and mixing them in with the Perry plastics. They are pretty much a perfect match in terms of scale once you've added a few mm to their bases, perhaps a bit more slender in appearance. The one weak point is the hand holding the bow, so I'll be replacing these with plastic Perry bow hands in future where possible.
(http://i.imgur.com/iaxPrNB.jpg)
And here are two banners I made myself! Those who have read A Song Of Ice And Fire may (perhaps) recognise it as the heraldry of House Bracken, a vassal of House Tully. I designed it using the Coat Of Arms Design Studio form Inkwell Ideas as a starting points (http://inkwellideas.com/coat_of_arms/free-version/), and then adjusted it into a square shape (rather than a shield) and added a bit of 'rippling' which you can't really see to be honest. I got it printed off, along with six other designs, on a variety of different papers from different stationary shops.... And agonised over which to choose (the colours came out differently each time, some were great but too thick and wouldn't 'bend'). Some of the other designs I still haven't managed to get right when printed off, but for some reason this one just worked with no problems.
The banner bearer on the left is another from Cruasader Miniatures, and the one on the right I've actually already posted a while back with an inferior banner. I decided he needed something better, so chopped off his plastic flag pole, drilled out his hands and gave him a new wire one. This is actually my first time drilling out hands and using wire spears, so I was apprehensive at first, but I pulled it off ok and gotta say it looks much better!
(http://i.imgur.com/M2LOxr7.jpg)
For all these smaller vassal houses, I plan to have one 'big' banner to accompany the head of the house, and one or two smaller ones to assign to units when needed.
That's all for now!
-
You're really displaying the versatility of the Perry plastics, there's loads of good conversions in here.
Impressive painting, too. :)
-
Nice additions. Lovely colourful banners. Thanks for sharing
-
Oh I like the idea of the amount of banners! Great execution too!
-
Just read through the thread in one go, top notch work all around!
This might just push me to purchase Perry plastics again o_o
-
Just read through the thread in one go, top notch work all around!
This might just push me to purchase Perry plastics again o_o
hihihi I've yours ;)
-
hihihi I've yours ;)
Haha, indeed :D If I get more and end up doing nothing with them, perhaps you need more? :)
-
really love the way you do bases and the movement trays (a new variant on that approach for me) - looks great.
-
Haha, indeed :D If I get more and end up doing nothing with them, perhaps you need more? :)
Drop me a message if so :) I just ordered some myself though, and I've not even finished yours yet.. ::)
-
really love the way you do bases and the movement trays (a new variant on that approach for me) - looks great.
Thanks, I'm surprised people like my basing so much to be honest, it really is a very simple method I use.
I'm undecided yet whether I'll texture and paint the movement trays in the same way yet, as they do look rather nice as they are. But that decision can wait until I have more done!
-
Latest batch....
Three soldiers in the livery of House Tully.
(http://i.imgur.com/MMpbqMt.jpg)
The archers are both metals from Crusader Miniatures. Very nice sculpts, I enjoyed painting them! The one in the middle has had his bow hand replaced by a plastic one from the Perry kits - the hands are the weakest point of the Crusader sculpts, and are easily replaced. The one on the right though couldn't be replaced without some resculpting of the leg, but oh well, he will do!
(http://i.imgur.com/Jpc8GEX.jpg)
A man-at-arms accompanied by the banner of House Goodbrook. The man-at-arms is a Perry metal, I really like the set it's from. I've painted two of them so far. They are all in standing poses leaning on their poleaxes, which makes them very useful for command groups.
The standard bearer is another metal from Crusader, one of their 'pikemen'. Not as wonderful as their archers, but still perfectly acceptable and a very useful pose for holding flags! Note his funny little hands....
The flag itself I made and printed myself.
(http://i.imgur.com/3SSKzP0.jpg)
-
Nice additions. Metals are good for characters aren't they. Thanks for sharing
-
Nice work 8) 8) 8)
The Crusader Wars of the Roses metals mix very well with the Perry stuff.
Darrell.
-
This week's update....
(http://i.imgur.com/io46RGv.jpg)
Two Perry plastics alongside one of the Perry metals. You can see how the metal chap has horribly malformed hands and a funny face.... The quality of the hands and faces on the plastics is so much higher, and some of the faces are just full of character which gets unlocked once painted, I really like how these two turned out....
Nevertheless the metals have some interesting, useful poses and equipment not available on the plastic kits, so fit in nicely scattered throughout large units of plastics.
He looks a bit shorter than the other two, but that's because he is in a leaning forward pose...
(http://i.imgur.com/pCr0ZGE.jpg)
The man-at-arms on the right is a conversion using legs from the Agincourt set. A bit of cutting was required to remove the torso and give him one from the WOTR, so he wouldn't be restricted to an outdated bascinet (the Agincourt M@A bodies have the heads already attached, and can't really be removed nicely without some proper green stuff skills due to the mail aventails). A few of these conversions expand the range of poses for armoured men-at-arms.
I will use this pair as a command group for my archers.
To those with a nerd-like knowledge of A Song Of Ice And Fire, like I have... he is Ser Desmond Grell! Anyone who can tell me who that is without looking it up wins a cookie!
-
Nice work Charlie. Totally agree with you. The plastics are infinitely better than the metals. And your comment about painting unlocking the faces is spot on.
-
firstly, I agree, there can be some differences in the sculpting of the metals and the plastics- I suppose that it's a lot easier to get a 'three up' anatomically more 'real' than the 28mm dollie/sculpt.
A good paint job on the mini's solves all re: differential between plastics and metals:
(If I may?)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-l3YH8nE5vZk/VVYQn7HH0mI/AAAAAAAAbvM/65xa5U6y4oc/s1600/IMG_4366.JPG)
Darrell.
-
To those with a nerd-like knowledge of A Song Of Ice And Fire, like I have... he is Ser Desmond Grell! Anyone who can tell me who that is without looking it up wins a cookie!
I was close, but I had to look up to check if i was right. I guess you've done a younger version of Ser Desmond? ;)
-
Btw; if you look up House Grell, you'll find a blazon, so you could give him a shield if you'd like
-
And your comment about painting unlocking the faces is spot on.
Some of them turn out to have handsome, slender faces, whilst others are real ugly brutes!!!
A good paint job on the mini's solves all re: differential between plastics and metals:
(If I may?)
Ah yes, that's your work isn't it! Very nice, I'll be adding that set to my list sometime in the future as well.
I was close, but I had to look up to check if i was right. I guess you've done a younger version of Ser Desmond? ;)
Btw; if you look up House Grell, you'll find a blazon, so you could give him a shield if you'd like
Yes, I have in mind that this is all going to be set during Robert's Rebellion, so all the older characters from the book will be a bit younger. Means the army will be led by a Hoster Tully who isn't bed-bound... But I'm keeping it flexible, so it can represent any generation of these Houses. And yes, Ser Desmond has some very nice heraldry, he's going to get a personal flag to accompany him at some point!
-
This week's update, five billmen / halberdiers.
(http://i.imgur.com/rqugyOZ.jpg)
Not much to say here. Two metals among the plastics. Despite what I said in my earlier post, I do really like these metal sculpts, they have character.
Annoyingly my matt varnish just ran out, so their jackets look a bit glossy.
-
Nice work Charlie 8) 8) 8)
Darrell.
-
very nice progress
-
(http://i.imgur.com/zWUJlSn.jpg)
I'm pretty pleased with the axeman, he looks quite menacing don't you think?
And these are two more of the metal archers from Crusader Miniatures. Again, with the bow-hands replaced by Perry plastic bow-hands.
(http://i.imgur.com/TrOgFgM.jpg)
-
Excellent. Like the unshaven chops on the billman. You must have built quite a force already :)
-
Excellent. Like the unshaven chops on the billman. You must have built quite a force already :)
Thanks!
Yes I'm quite pleased with the unshaven faces, I've done quite a few of them now.
And yes, the count now is at... 72 painted.
18 billmen / halberdiers in House Tully colours.
14 archers in House Tully colours.
15 billmen / halberdiers in neutral colours (currently with a House Bracken banner).
12 archers in neutral colours.
And 13 assorted others... men-at-arms, standard bearers and other loose ends.
A lot more to come! For me it's all about large units of ranked up infantry. I find the billmen look best in three ranks, at least 7 wide... When I put both my bill units together they look really impressive! I think 21 or 24 are good sizes, 3x7 or 3x8... So a few more batches and I'll have two big units like that.
My Tully units now feature every model in red and blue uniforms.
My 'neutral' bill unit will be able to change its allegiance just by swapping out a few models, ie the banner and a few livery jackets.
I've got a few models in green livery scattered around, I'm now going to start making a mixed bill & bow formation unit of them, for a house of my own creation. So a banner and a few more green jackets on the way, to be bulked out by the 'neutrals'.
Once I've got at least four hefty battle-ready units, I will do some group shots. Perhaps after Christmas? Then I can start thinking about adding other types... I've got pikes, crossbows and cavalry all waiting patiently (haven't painted a single horse yet!)
It's tempting to have fun just painting interesting men-at-arms, commanders and standard bearers, but I can only really justify doing many more of them once I've got units for them to lead. So until the new year, it's just going to be lots more bows and bills! Then perhaps in January I will treat myself, I've got a few very nice conversions for character models I'm looking forward to painting...
I've got into a good routine now of doing one batch a week, finished the basing, varnishing and photographing on Monday evenings. I was doing batches of 5, but this last one was a batch of 6 and that wasn't too arduous, I'm gonna try a batch of 7 this week.
-
Batch of 7 this week.
It's starting to look like a small army on my shelf now...
(http://i.imgur.com/1AwYuyN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GlAKE4g.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/BGUMTxT.jpg)
-
very good progress :-*
-
Great work, and so constant! I wish I would have your lack of distraction ... 8)
-
I'm loving these Charlie - thanks for the link. Hopefully it'll inspire me to put paint to plastic!
-
Batch of 7 this week.
It's starting to look like a small army on my shelf now...
(http://i.imgur.com/1AwYuyN.jpg)
I really like the neutral cloth tone that you have there- what colours are you using on the billmen? I've got my own GoT project that got pushed by the wayside for 10mm fantasy, but all the ASOIAF on this board lately has me inspired to pick it up again...
-
Your progress and pace is really impressive. More nicely painted minis. Thanks for sharing
-
I really like the neutral cloth tone that you have there- what colours are you using on the billmen? I've got my own GoT project that got pushed by the wayside for 10mm fantasy, but all the ASOIAF on this board lately has me inspired to pick it up again...
Thanks, I'm pretty pleased with how it came out on those three actually.
I've been slightly changing and adapting my method on each new batch I do, and I reckon those three look the best in terms of cloth. However I used A LOT of stages on them, and lately I've done the same thing with just three stages that looks just as good I think. So I'm still refining it.
Basically the base coat is citadel colour Rhinox Hide, each layer of highlights adds a bit more of vallejo Bonewhite, stopping well short of pure Bonewhite for the final layer. The first layer after the base coat pretty much covers everything, so is another basecoat I guess. That's all there is to it. As I said, I used probably too many layers on these guys, looks great but took forever. If it's just sleeves like the spearman, three or four layers works fine.
Along the way the mix looks rather purple, but it soon works up to this nice creamy grey sort of colour.
If you look back at some of my first painted ones, it's a similar thing but with a different sort of hue. That's because I changed brown along the way. All companies seem to do a pretty identical bonewhite, but getting different shades of dark brown to match up from different companies is a nightmare! This is what I've settled on though, and I will use this colour going forward.
By the way, I'm aware there have been no updates since December. Don't worry, I'm still busy painting! I'm just not posting up every model I paint now. I've also started working on terrain, so am thinking I'll just stock up on them and then WOW you all with a big army shot on terrain! Though I might post up some of my favourite latest ones sometime before then.
-
:o
I missed this thread!
What a project! I love the whole Riverland concept. Very smart to paint some troopers with neutral color scheme. Sure I'll steal the idea as soon as I finish the Clegane core army. Woa, I'd really like to play with you! Clegane and Lannister Vs Tully and Riverland houses, perfect match! lol
Love the kitbashing and painting too. Keep em going, I want to see the groupshot on the battlefield!
-
Here's a little update, just to prove that I'm still working on it.
I've painted quite a few since the last pics, but I'm not gonna put up every model I paint now. I'll just periodically share with you a selection of my favourites.
So here are eight which I think work particularly nicely, either in terms of poses or painting.
(http://i.imgur.com/sKX76H1.jpg)
I am still really loving how these faces come to life with paint. And duplicates don't always come out the same - note the halberdier with breastplate and the archer in red and white use the same head, but I don't feel they look like clones.
-
Well worth the wait Charlie. Another nice set of figures.
Is the archer, top right, a Perry body and arms with a Crusader head?
Yes, it's incredible how the same head used on different bodies and in different stances or postures, produces a completely different 'feel' (rather than octuplets!)
One of the many joys of Perry plastics :)
-
Well worth the wait Charlie. Another nice set of figures.
Thanks!
Is the archer, top right, a Perry body and arms with a Crusader head?
Ah no, that's one of the Perry metal Italian heads. And you know, I saw the exact same head on another thread here, asked the same question, and went and ordered some when told what it was! It's not the most perfect set for my uses, it features six lots of 2 closed barbutes, two with the great big turban things on, and two normal open faced sallets which are the only ones I wanted really. So I paid £7 for 12 of these heads and 24 ones I'm unlikely to use! Oh well!
-
Hmm. I bought the Perry metal Tudor heads. Didn't much care for them. A bit crudely done. Used a couple, the rest are still in a box somewhere. So I know how it goes...
The truth is, as we've both remarked before I think, the plastics are just so much better in terms of quality. (Heresy to some, I know, but there it is. The evidence of one's own eyes).
-
very nice progress indeed
-
I agree, not one of mine look the same even when serendipitously you find you've used the same part combinations on a different figure. That is the real joy of the Perry plastics when yet another individual emerges off the assembly line.
You should know Captain B. You've probably seen more plastic Perry heads than all of us put together. If you say they're better than the metals then that's good enough for me!
Keep up the great work Charlie, they're coming together nicely. If I had one constructive criticism (and it is only one), I'd say the banners are a little simplistic for the look of the figures.
I find it tricky striking a balance between the look of the figure and the simplistic heraldry mentioned in Martin's books. I'm reevaluating my own banners and looking at how Medieval banners, particularly those with plainer surfaces, were often embellished with simple textured effects and minor details to decoratively fill the space. I'm thinking of flags like the Oriflamme and the WoTR/Tudor standards which often repeat the motifs in miniature and have decorative borders in contrasting colours etc. It seems to me also that the main standards of each house lend themselves more to the pseudo C15 style? where even the mottoes could be used
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=medieval+standards+and+banners&espv=2&biw=2240&bih=1202&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBh6yX3d3KAhWGShQKHfqvBoEQsAQIJg&dpr=0.75#imgrc=dDBuO-on4GwRQM%3A
Martin uses the sigils as a means of expressing affiliation to a group/house, which is a simplistic factional style of heraldry used historically up until the C13. As individuals became increasingly enclosed inside a metallic carapace, particularly shielding the face from view, heraldry evolved accordingly to help identify the individuals within.
-
Here are a few Stark and Lannister flags I did with exactly what you said in mind (https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/fullsizerender-25.jpg?w=150&h=288&crop=1) (https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/fullsizerender-24.jpg?w=264&h=288&crop=1) (https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/fullsizerender6.jpg?w=371&h=396&crop=1)
-
I get your point about the banners, and I'm certainly not against replacing them at a later date if I can work out a more exciting alternative!
For what it's worth, two of the banners I've posted which I did myself are definitely among the super-simple designs I chose to try first.
The Bracken banner (red stallion) is simple but I think works the best.
I'd love to design some 'proper' banners like this using the GRRM houses, but would be at a loss as to what to fill it all up with. And wouldn't have the technical know-how to do something so complicated!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Standard_of_Henry_Stafford_1475_colored.jpg)
-
I do the lettering of the Flags by printing them in the right size and then copying them on the flag design . Then you only have to fill in the colors .
You can do this then too:
(https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/22.jpg?w=600&h=346)
I mean the ribbon with the motto on the flagstaff. Didn't have a better picture sorry