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Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: olyreed on October 20, 2015, 08:18:20 AM

Title: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on October 20, 2015, 08:18:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGbxmsDFVnE

nice!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Earther on October 20, 2015, 09:44:03 AM
I've got goose bumps!  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: von Lucky on October 20, 2015, 11:00:59 AM
What's that red droid? I want one!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on October 20, 2015, 11:10:03 AM
What's that red droid? I want one!

He. he, that one catched also my eye, nice retro design!

And some pics from Spiegel.de:
(http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-910859-galleryV9-cjfe.jpg)

(http://cdn3.spiegel.de/images/image-910862-galleryV9-zwiw.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elbows on October 20, 2015, 12:25:30 PM
Personally the biggest hook for me was the re-done music.  Sounds really good.  I loved the intro scene where she's descending into the (Star Destroyer/Super Star Destroyer?).  I'm not huge on the lead guy constantly looking weak/baffled at the moment, but perhaps that's just intentional in the trailer.

Unfortunately the lead bad fella doesn't look too solid to me.  Overall, pretty stoked - good trailer as well.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 20, 2015, 12:51:13 PM
Love it !!!!!

Star Wars making shit night tonight  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on October 20, 2015, 01:21:06 PM
Is it me or does that look like Darth Vader with a silver helmet in the foreground of the bottom photo!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Andym on October 20, 2015, 01:33:47 PM
Ohhhh! I'm trying not to get excited!!!.........but it's not working!

Have you noticed the official poster? It seems to have a certain big metal planet in the background( or something that looks similar)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Comsquare on October 20, 2015, 01:35:40 PM
Saw it this morning and love it  :-*

Looking so forward for december.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on October 20, 2015, 01:40:06 PM
And no Luke Skywalker!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on October 20, 2015, 01:56:02 PM
And no Luke Skywalker!

True rumours going wild atm. He is only a force spirit now, he is the bad guy etc etc
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 20, 2015, 05:22:15 PM
Have you noticed the official poster? It seems to have a certain big metal planet in the background( or something that looks similar)

Yeah, I noticed that and thinking about it they've got all three main locations in the first film; desert, ice and temperate  ??? Trying to fit too much in?

Who cares, it'll be awesomesauceonastick :D

True rumours going wild atm. He is only a force spirit now, he is the bad guy etc etc

There are pictures of him wearing a hood 'in character' and I would assume he would be in it...

cheers

James
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Predatorpt on October 20, 2015, 05:25:45 PM
True rumours going wild atm. He is only a force spirit now, he is the bad guy etc etc

I really hope he's the bad guy, like in the "Dark Empire" storyline:

(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/7/71/Darkempire3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070921214522)

The official word is that they will use some ideas/parts of the Expanded Universe, so I've got my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 20, 2015, 05:27:36 PM
I though EU was out completely?

cheers

James
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Ajsalium on October 20, 2015, 06:07:39 PM
Ohhhh! I'm trying not to get excited!!!.........but it's not working!

Have you noticed the official poster? It seems to have a certain big metal planet in the background( or something that looks similar)

That's not a planet! That's a space station! :o
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: uti long smile on October 20, 2015, 06:20:03 PM
Snoopy dance!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on October 20, 2015, 06:36:50 PM
That's not a planet! That's a space station! :o

 lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Michka on October 20, 2015, 06:51:05 PM
This is gonna be so damn much fun!!!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Rhoderic on October 20, 2015, 07:22:44 PM
I'm excited and intrigued. If I was allowed to voice one concern, the trailer feels very "heavy" and bombastic. I hope the sense of high-flying "space western"-style adventure, which was part of what made the original films great, won't be lost in a haze of Wagnerian fatefulness. Keep it fun! Throw in some space pirates or something!

But mainly, I'm excited and intrigued, whatever the mood of the film will turn out to be.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on October 20, 2015, 07:43:55 PM
Can't disagree, Rhoderic.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: goon3423 on October 20, 2015, 08:30:11 PM
I'm being cautiously optimistic, the prequels were such garbage this has to be better....right?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: area23 on October 20, 2015, 08:56:47 PM
I was almost in tears this morning! I read an interview with the director last summer and I believe it will be pretty amazing.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Constable Bertrand on October 20, 2015, 08:57:18 PM
Interesting that Han needed to tell the main girl/guy that the stories were all true.
...

Id imagine partying around the galaxy and a ruined empire would be known about.
Seems the Empire tried its best to carry on as normal (space station, darth helmet galactic oppression) and it worked.

So its a re-booted Ep 4?  ;D

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mr. Peabody on October 20, 2015, 09:02:21 PM
Trailer managed to push some buttons, didn't it?  8) Certainly was more than I was expecting and leaves me optimistic.

If I was allowed to voice one concern, the trailer feels very "heavy" and bombastic.

Don't want to quote you out of context Rhoderic, I'm excited too. But I wouldn't mind something 'heavy' if it meant the storyline was well done.

I mean, a classic story that entertains fans of all ages is no doubt a tricky thing to craft, so I hope they don't just take the easy way out and sell toys to the current generation of 5 to 10 year-olds.

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Commander Vyper on October 20, 2015, 09:26:59 PM
Is it me or does that look like Darth Vader with a silver helmet in the foreground of the bottom photo!

Captain Phasma mate.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Rhoderic on October 20, 2015, 10:11:07 PM
I mean, a classic story that entertains fans of all ages is no doubt a tricky thing to craft, so I hope they don't just take the easy way out and sell toys to the current generation of 5 to 10 year-olds.

Oh, I certainly wouldn't want a repeat of The Phantom Menace with its Donald Duck droids and flavourless, inconsequential villains. I'd just prefer more of the same formula that the original trilogy had, and that included a heavy dose of pulpy "high adventure" alongside all the "epic" stuff.

As you say, one easy way out is to make the film a two-and-a-half-hour advertisement for children's toys. Another is to rely on a Terribly Bombastic Wagnerian Soundtrack and a collection of Epic Movie Tropes to the point where they become crutches.

But all I'm saying is that the trailer felt a bit heavy on the "epic" and light on the "high adventure". I don't want to make too big a ruckus about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mr. Peabody on October 20, 2015, 10:20:06 PM
No ruckus, pulpy-high-adventure is awesome, same page here.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 20, 2015, 10:41:42 PM
But all I'm saying is that the trailer felt a bit heavy on the "epic" and light on the "high adventure". I don't want to make too big a ruckus about it.

The target audience for this trailer initially was the 'not so bothered' crowd so that's why I'm thinking more action and less story but I'm hoping that the film will be a good balance  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Michi on October 20, 2015, 10:58:04 PM
Impressive.
Most impressive!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Dalcor on October 20, 2015, 11:10:45 PM
I have bad feelings about it...

I am still afraid I will be disapointed because now I am realy realy excited...

I feel much fear in me...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: chromedog on October 21, 2015, 04:00:59 AM
I though EU was out completely?

cheers

James

EU has ALWAYS been out.  It's never been "canon" (at least not in the way that counted - George Canon - aka "G-canon" - which was limited to 6 movies, TCW and rebels).  Not that it can't become canon, but if it wasn't in TCW/Rebels or the 6 other movies, it isn't considered "movie canon".  There is stuff that WAS EU that is NOW canon, though ... so there's hope for that "legends" stuff, yet.  :D

The planet isn't a death star (moon sized weapon) so much as a weapons system built INTO a planet.  No pesky thermal exhaust port to worry about, or central reactor.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on October 21, 2015, 05:13:59 AM

The planet isn't a death star (moon sized weapon) so much as a weapons system built INTO a planet.  No pesky thermal exhaust port to worry about, or central reactor.

Seeing that huge Trench in the Starkiller Base i wouldn't be so confident  lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on October 21, 2015, 07:53:14 AM
The shot of the girl crying/angry over a body, one question, is that Luke laying there? not the best screen cap. Could this be the Ben Kenobi moment
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: bandit86 on October 21, 2015, 08:08:27 AM
In the opening scene I thought that was a teenage mutant ninja turtle  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: goon3423 on October 21, 2015, 01:36:41 PM
The shot of the girl crying/angry over a body, one question, is that Luke laying there? not the best screen cap. Could this be the Ben Kenobi moment
There's a very persistent rumor that's Chewbacca  :'(.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: cyagen on October 21, 2015, 03:24:59 PM
Been thinking about it for a while and it may well be that Luke is already dead and only appears as a spirit to whatever the Jedi is in the new films.

So far the only shots of Luke that I've seen where in front of a blue screen....

I hope I'm not right and that we'll see him in full master Jedi mode, open a can of whoop@$$ on the first order... lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Malamute on October 21, 2015, 04:26:01 PM
There's a very persistent rumor that's Chewbacca  :'(.

There's an even more persistent rumour it is Han Solo who is killed off. Its all over the internet today.... :o
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on October 21, 2015, 05:11:15 PM
There's an even more persistent rumour it is Han Solo who is killed off. Its all over the internet today.... :o
Why not even great old heroes die one day!
I always like Chewies death in the Vong war, noble and fitting scarifies!
Only how Han reacted afterwards drove me nuts!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on October 21, 2015, 06:04:14 PM
I wouldn't trust any rumour about character death or identity - remember in the original trilogy they filmed fake scenes and dialogue just to keep rumours secret. If anyone's going to pull that again, it'd be a Star Wars director.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Cubs on October 21, 2015, 06:20:04 PM
The rumpled cloth is a clue in that photo. She has clearly mixed her dark wash and whites wash and her work shirt has come out a dirty grey colour. It's how I react.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elbows on October 21, 2015, 11:00:52 PM
^This, and the split ends...all those split ends.  It's enough to drive you to tears.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: BlackWidowPilot on October 21, 2015, 11:48:43 PM
To Hell with the rumors, and who give's a womp rat's ass about split ends or what Luke Skywalker will be wearing on the red carpet?! Release the movie already before I go completely barking mad! lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on October 22, 2015, 07:04:05 AM
To Hell with the rumors, and who give's a womp rat's ass about split ends or what Luke Skywalker will be wearing on the red carpet?! Release the movie already before I go completely barking mad! lol
Oh yes and amen to that!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: 6mmfan on October 22, 2015, 07:41:35 AM
Awesome trailer. I found out our department's christmas party is a private screening of this movie the day before it is released in our country! (BTW I work in a IT department)  lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Constable Bertrand on October 22, 2015, 09:52:30 AM
Awesome trailer. I found out our department's christmas party is a private screening of this movie the day before it is released in our country! (BTW I work in a IT department)  lol

Can I skip my pub booz up at the pub and hang with you guys?

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Dr. Zombie on October 22, 2015, 06:28:34 PM
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/Fredejensen/D54C2032-077F-4D6B-9551-8EAA44EBC2A0_zpsus0dtjzl.jpg) (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/Fredejensen/media/D54C2032-077F-4D6B-9551-8EAA44EBC2A0_zpsus0dtjzl.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 22, 2015, 06:29:06 PM
Nooooooooooo
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on October 22, 2015, 07:04:17 PM
 lol lol lol

Though for a half-second I was confused, trying to imagine what a fish's ears looked like...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: tnjrp on October 23, 2015, 06:42:59 AM
Without knowing anything about anything and just looking at the trailer, I would've bet the new black robe & helmet bad guy is really Luke Skywalker on a bad "like father, like son" trip. But that doesn't seem to be a possible plot twist o_o
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on October 23, 2015, 09:07:51 AM
Well someones done a mash up of the trailers and put them together so if you wanna see them have a look here
http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/trailers/625111-star-wars-supercut-reassembles-the-force-awakens-trailers#/slide/1
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 23, 2015, 09:23:51 AM
I saw that and to my mind it could've been put together differently but, each to his own, it's all good  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on November 06, 2015, 09:35:13 PM
Well I don't know how to put up the link, but the force awakens Japanese trailer is out with some extra bits in it
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 07, 2015, 12:44:49 AM
Love it!

Love it!

Love it!

 :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: von Lucky on November 07, 2015, 01:13:34 AM
Nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdAUiyeJMFQ
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on November 07, 2015, 01:28:00 AM
Getting better by each trailer!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on November 07, 2015, 09:00:16 AM
Nice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdAUiyeJMFQ

There's a lot of little new bits in that, very interesting. That really does look more and more like poor old Chewbacca lying there.  :'(
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Ajsalium on November 07, 2015, 07:36:32 PM
What really amazed me is seeing C3PO, still kicking around!
Don't robots in that galaxy far away have their OS updated until they can no longer function? lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on November 08, 2015, 07:00:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jA8fNkU.jpg)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elbows on November 08, 2015, 07:09:35 PM
So that's the "Star Battles" DVD you'd find in about 3 months after release?  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on November 10, 2015, 11:21:56 AM
New tv spot with some little unseen clips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU-s_HAEwsg

The bit at the end with the millenium Falcon coming out of the trees...... :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 10, 2015, 12:24:58 PM
Love it!

Love it!

Love it!

 :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gangleri on November 11, 2015, 06:29:47 PM
For those of you approaching the new Star Wars movie from a more cynical angle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oifhpT0HZ7Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oifhpT0HZ7Q)

These two gents' predictions about previous movies have been eerily accurate, by the way, in particular their predictions about another Abrams flick, Star Trek: Into Darkness.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on November 11, 2015, 11:20:50 PM
For those of you approaching the new Star Wars movie from a more cynical ...

Starting to watch it, but 45 Min of a cynical view is too much for me...
 ::) ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 12, 2015, 07:59:38 AM
Starting to watch it, but ...

Me too! But who cares?!  ;D Lasers, pew pews , stirring score and the falcon doing 'Aileron' rolls.  lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: NurgleHH on November 13, 2015, 07:07:10 PM
Getting better by each trailer!
I Hope it will be as good as expected in the Full Version. The Trailers Are very good.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on November 13, 2015, 11:11:40 PM
I sm pretty sure that I will have fun.

I am one of the few who even liked Ep I-III...  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on November 13, 2015, 11:32:17 PM
I think I'm all trailered out. Movie now, please.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on November 21, 2015, 01:25:34 AM
The crew of the USS Eisenhower made their own version of the Force Awakens trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EypzUduBqiQ
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elbows on November 21, 2015, 04:19:04 AM
As the son of a naval aviator...I fully approve.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on November 21, 2015, 07:46:46 AM
 :) Very nice, I really like it!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Michi on November 21, 2015, 11:52:49 AM
That´s good!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nic-e on December 17, 2015, 04:53:13 AM
I HAVE RETURNED FROM THE CINEMA!

No spoilers!

Film was great, the plot=great.characters=great.world=great.

This is a real star wars film.maybe not like the originals, but new, refreshed, but still so much a fim worthy of the title star wars.

Also, they need to bring out more toys, because i want ALL of the vehicles for the tabletop ,and i will be gaming the hell out of star wars asap.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/yo_zpsbyotvxw6.jpg)
(to show how much i liked it,i got myself the novelty 3d glasses and collectors sippy cup.)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Dr. Zombie on December 17, 2015, 07:21:28 AM
Totally agree. This movie delivered on all accounts. I am definately watching it again - soon.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: tomrommel1 on December 17, 2015, 07:31:50 AM
Have seen it last night !!!! Very very good film !!! Will watch it again!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on December 17, 2015, 08:05:24 AM
Cool, I will see it today at 13:00!  8)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Kpok on December 17, 2015, 09:46:36 AM
I´ll have to wait til the 23rd  :(
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Comsquare on December 17, 2015, 09:50:30 AM
Saw it this night as well and, like the others, loved it  :-*
Definitiv Star Wars by all means, will rewatch it soon again  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 17, 2015, 10:27:55 AM
Hopefully going tomorrow.  Can't wait now after hearing such positive feedback.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on December 17, 2015, 12:04:47 PM
saw it twice yesterday, lots to love, no real big faults, great old and new characters, and JJ managed to hit all the right notes.
will likely see it again this weekend

BTW am I the only one who missed the Fox fanfare at the start?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on December 17, 2015, 04:20:06 PM
Back from the cinema - I loved it!
I was amazed how much love and care the old characters received!
I will see it on Sunday again...

...BTW am I the only one who missed the Fox fanfare at the start?
Damn, now that you mention it! I missed it too.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nils on December 17, 2015, 08:42:25 PM
love it
i realy like "old" han and the new ones
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: area23 on December 17, 2015, 10:27:28 PM
No tears and not extremely amazing as I hoped.  But very entertaining and I love the new characters.
But as said above it's been made with love and they've done a really good job. Mark Hamil actually impressed me.

it's almost like Jar jar binks and midichlorians never happened!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: thebinmann on December 17, 2015, 10:31:04 PM
Yes I saw it yesterday, one of the advantages of living in France. I loved it, but a large part of that was nostalgia...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on December 17, 2015, 11:29:37 PM
BTW am I the only one who missed the Fox fanfare at the start?
Every time I hear the Fox fanfare I am vaguely disappointed when the Star Wars music doesn't follow. I saw Star Wars when I was 5 and imprinted on it like a baby bird on whatever it sees first.

so has anyone shed a tear yet? Or is it not that amazing?
And I am now a thoroughly happy child of 5 again for at least the next few hours. There were several times in the film - starting with the opening Star Wars logo and blare of music - when there definitely was something in my eye.

But it was nothing to worry about. Each time it turned out that it was just some tears, and they made their own way out.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on December 18, 2015, 01:53:11 AM
Is this thread going to be, uh spoiler-safe? ;)

Will be seeing it Tuesday.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nic-e on December 18, 2015, 02:19:57 AM
I specified spoiler free earlier on in my post, i would hope everyone else has the same consideration.  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on December 18, 2015, 07:11:48 AM
so has anyone shed a tear yet? Or is it not that amazing?

Ahem - I did, but I can still cry a bit just seeing the Lion King or Bambi if I really open myself to the movie.  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: phreedh on December 18, 2015, 10:00:28 AM
so has anyone shed a tear yet? Or is it not that amazing?
Eyes misted up in the opening crawl and never really recovered, but I'm a nostalgic and sentimental old sap. :)

Apart from that I concur with previous reviewers in the thread. Some shortcomings, but 100% enjoyable. I'd rank it higher than ROTJ, for now. That might change on repeat viewings - but it's a damn good Star Wars film.

If I should complain about anything, it would be the explanatory emphasis used at times. "What do they look like?" *object appears on screen, which is the punch line of the gag* "Like that!" <- unnecessary foolproofing which spoils the moment a bit. It's like parents referring to their kid as "our son" instead of "Steve". It was a bit blunt at times, spelling things out.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Dr. Zombie on December 18, 2015, 10:17:43 AM
I misted up a few times. But I am getting more and more sentimental as I grow older.

If everyone could just hurry up and see the movie so we can start to talk about it without risk of spoilering it. Then I could tell you when I misted up. And when I laughed and when I cheered. Apart from the part with the X-wings comming in low and fast over the water. (that was in the trailer so we can mention that)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on December 18, 2015, 10:23:46 AM
yep, Eyes misted up when the theme started and that familiar openingcrawl came on screen, and also with the Chewie where home moment with Han, even though that was in the trailer  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: thebinmann on December 18, 2015, 11:02:34 AM
I am getting a bit soft in my dotage. There are entire genres I cant watch anymore cus they make me too sad or upset. Thank god there is still Rom com, light fluffy and nothing upsetting other than the premise for the entire genre. (which I can deal with.)

Don't watch Bridges of Madison County then...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: thebinmann on December 18, 2015, 11:03:23 AM
yep, Eyes misted up when the theme started and that familiar openingcrawl came on screen, and also with the Chewie where home moment with Han, even though that was in the trailer  :D


Wow, have you considered changing your name?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 18, 2015, 03:47:56 PM
Just been to see it.

Loved it!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: thebinmann on December 18, 2015, 06:37:37 PM
Am I allowed to share the two things I didn't like? They aren't really spoilers...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Comsquare on December 18, 2015, 07:18:38 PM
Am I allowed to share the two things I didn't like? They aren't really spoilers...

I think we should wait a little longer before we discuss movie-specific things  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: uti long smile on December 18, 2015, 07:40:05 PM
Saw it earlier. Happy days!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 18, 2015, 07:50:59 PM
At the last minute I went for the 3d showing.  It was empty. There were several great 3d bits that had people in the audience putting hands up against stuff that wasn't there.

It's so nice to be thinking "I can't wait for the next one" rather than "please let it be better"!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Dr. Zombie on December 18, 2015, 08:26:06 PM
I must say I am really impressed with the whole nerd community. Usually the internet is overflowing with spoilers within 15 minutes if a movie premiere. I have found it hard to find any with this.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: galatea77 on December 18, 2015, 11:16:41 PM
I agree there seems to be a consensus not to spoil the movie for others.

Just saw it, totally delivers, after so many disappointing remakes/reboots/sequels I'm relieved this one is so much fun and just so Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on December 19, 2015, 12:01:24 AM
Wow, have you considered changing your name?
Strong men also cry. Strong men... also cry.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Constable Bertrand on December 20, 2015, 08:38:08 PM
Oh my oh my oh my that was an enjoyable film.

The red lightsaber effects and red lasers look very angry now. Tats a very nice touch to the art direction, and captures the vibe of the dark side more rather than blue vs red blades.

Now if only there was a local Disney store I could raid for star wars toys. :(

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Comsquare on December 20, 2015, 08:46:19 PM

The red lightsaber effects and red lasers look very angry now. Tats a very nice touch to the art direction, and captures the vibe of the dark side more rather than blue vs red blades.



Honestly, I liked Kylo Rens lightsaber the first time I saw it in the teaser, but after seeing it in the movie, I love it.
It looks like pure, raw energy, very agressive  ;D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 20, 2015, 09:23:10 PM
Saw it yesterday...what a pile of crap!
So bad that I am going to see it again tomorrow.
 ;)

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 20, 2015, 09:27:28 PM
Saw it yesterday...what a pile of crap!
So bad that I am going to see it again tomorrow.
 ;)



It was one of those films where I genuinely thought "no, don't let it be over!" I'd definitely go and see it again.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: fastolfrus on December 20, 2015, 10:49:07 PM
We went to see it this afternoon.
Lots of gaming potential
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Redmao on December 21, 2015, 12:30:49 AM
This was definitely a good Star Wars movie.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: supervike on December 21, 2015, 01:16:06 AM
This movie reminded me why I loved Star Wars in the first place.

Wonderfully entertaining.

Can't wait until we can discuss it more, without ruining it for others!

Hurry up and see it everyone!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: thebinmann on December 21, 2015, 10:27:20 AM
This movie reminded me why I loved Star Wars in the first place.

Wonderfully entertaining.

Can't wait until we can discuss it more, without ruining it for others!

Hurry up and see it everyone!

Any idea when that might be? Can we start a spoiler thread - though that does hold risks if people stumble across it....
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on December 21, 2015, 11:21:07 AM
I am all for a dedicated spoiler thread, if anybody stumbles into it, so be it!
As long as it is properly tagged as a spoiler thread all should be fine.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on December 21, 2015, 01:16:11 PM
Going tonight, cant wait!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Momotaro on December 21, 2015, 02:23:32 PM
Tomorrow (Tuesday) for me!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: olyreed on December 22, 2015, 07:30:25 AM
watched last night... glory be it was like watching the first film for the first time,
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Dr. Zombie on December 22, 2015, 07:40:16 AM
Possible Spiler ahead!!!



Who was the guy played by Max von Sydow? Did I miss something completely?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Comsquare on December 22, 2015, 08:35:55 AM
Possible Spiler ahead!!!



Who was the guy played by Max von Sydow? Did I miss something completely?

Quote from WookieeLeaks:
"The rumor going around is that Max von Sydow plays a character named Lor San Tekka, a man in possession of information vital to the quest..."

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Giger on December 22, 2015, 11:58:10 AM
just got back and I am not happy

This was not the movie I had hoped for. Unlike Mad Max's reboot this one left me damm cold and underwhelmed.

God I wish they had hit the brakes at Jedi and gone and did something else with their creativity.

I expect to be nuked from orbit for voicing my honest opinion but such is life.

Of course I will still say go and see it because everyone else on the planet will, I dont begrudge anyone that.

Thank the lord I'm not the only one who thought this, my initial reaction was 'That was alright' but it didn't exactly set my world on fire.  I am seeing it again as I might just need some time with it but I was hoping we'd get something new with this one not a re-hash of what came before.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on December 22, 2015, 04:07:06 PM
when we can discuss it without screwing it up for someone else then I will clearly state my case regarding its full of fail state.

I am giving up on star wars and declaring the Scurvellian protocols in effect where every movie post Jedi never fucking happened in my personal SW universe. I'm sick of people pissing over my childhood memories of something special in order to make more money.
Oh my, so much Dark Side energy...  ::) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 22, 2015, 04:31:45 PM
Hmmm enjoy it you did not!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: von Lucky on December 22, 2015, 07:49:55 PM
So 'Caravan of Courage' is out Scurv?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on December 23, 2015, 12:03:02 AM
Just back from seeing it. I have to side with Scurv and Giger. (Guys, maybe we could form a society (http://i.imgur.com/aqBeym1.jpg))

Was there a spoiler thread?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Commander Carnage on December 23, 2015, 04:26:37 AM
Finally saw it. It was OK. My guess if I was 10 again I would have been more impressed. It was clear where the movie was going for shock value. I liked the heroes but the villains sucked.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Giger on December 23, 2015, 09:57:01 AM
I'm seeing it again tonight and then again next week, I'll have my final judgement by then though I'm not sure it's going to change that much.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nullBolt on December 23, 2015, 10:01:43 AM
SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE!

Did you guys like that spoiler? I bet you did.

I'm going to see the movie tonight but I've watched most of it online and I can't say I'm overwhelmed. The plot isn't that bad but the main villain is tacky and the new actors are fucking awful. Jesus, I know they wanted new blood but they could've got new blood with some sort of talent.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on December 23, 2015, 10:34:25 AM
What's a snape?

I liked the heroes but the villains sucked.

The plot isn't that bad but the main villain is tacky and the new actors are fucking awful. Jesus, I know they wanted new blood but they could've got new blood with some sort of talent.

Could barely stand the heroes, myself. I wanted to like them, I honestly did, but...

Okay, spoilers.

I liked the plot, the story, whatever you want to call it, well enough. The problem is, I liked it better when I saw it years ago, and it was called Episode IV: A New Hope. There's a dumpy little droid running around with vital intelligence for the good guys, because of course there is. There's a lonely kid from a desert planet who turns out to be strong in the force and gets whisked up in the adventure, because of course there is. There's a cantina where they go looking for transport, because of course there is. There's a masked, black-clad dark side villain who talks to giant holograms and sticks a lightsabre into the elderly mentor father-figure near the end, because of course there is. There's a giant round superweapon that shoots planets, has bits that need to be sabotaged, and has a weakness that has to be poked at by X-Wings (not to mention trenches and superstructures to fly through), because of course there is.

Well, it's not all like A New Hope. There's an obnoxious hypercompetent mechanical-genius force-genius pilot-genius kid from a desert planet, played with the range of a plank of mdf, and the misfit sidekick who constantly flails around and jabbers unfunny nonsense. Where have I seen those before?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on December 23, 2015, 11:27:54 AM
Another for the didn't like it crowd here. Neither I nor the wife are fans. There was a little I liked, but far more I disliked.

Better than the prequels? Sure. But that's a low bloody bar. Looked like Star Wars? Sure. I guess they hired decent concept artists.

Underlying concept and general plot idea was sound, but the execution was disastrous - as it was for the prequels. Once you get past the flash and glitter, everything that really makes for a great story fails to hold up. Pacing was terrible, characterization suffered immensely, there was way too much noise and cacophany with no chance to digest or reflect, there was no sense of scale or space, the villains were interesting but hilariously ineffectual, everything was suborned to fanservice, and there were way way way WAY too many convenient coincidences. Anytime the plot needed anything to happen, it just happened. It was incredibly lazy storytelling. It was bad storytelling.

Abrams is a hack. George Miller can school him before even waking up. You want a movie to watch? Go see Fury Road again.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Momotaro on December 23, 2015, 01:14:52 PM
Another for the didn't like it crowd here. Neither I nor the wife are fans. There was a little I liked, but far more I disliked.

You're gonna need a bigger treehouse for your club guys :(  

CGI was used well, there were some smart call-outs to other films - the TIE fighters framed against the sun, the very first shot of X-Wings on the water.  The battles had a strong, visceral quality to them, and the humour was decent ("That's NOT how the Force works!").  The rest just didn't do it for me, for all the reasons Fram and Vermis give (and which have often been pointed out as flaws in the films Abrams or his scriptwriting crew have worked on - Into Darkness and Prometheus being amongst the worst offenders).  I can't believe I saw the same movie that so many people are raving about.  

My wife isn't a Star Wars fan especially, and she was just bored.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: The Somnambulist on December 23, 2015, 06:12:42 PM
Loved it.

Hated Fury Road.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Commander Carnage on December 23, 2015, 07:06:55 PM
I should mention although I didn't think it was great my kids loved it and have been playing Star Wars constantly since seeing it.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on December 23, 2015, 08:20:30 PM
I think when the dust settles, I am going to basically think of TFA as being about as good as the prequels, which I disliked a lot, but maybe a bit less than most people.

The prequels had a few partially redeeming qualities. The visuals were beautiful and looked Star Wars-y at least. Ewan MacGregor was a great Obi-Wan. Iain MacDiarmid was great, period. Christopher Lee made as great a villain as he always does. But ultimately the story was bad and very poorly told. The incredible story that might have been, about a galaxy-spanning civilization brought to ruin by the complacency of it's rulers, the hubris of it's guardians, and the ego of its greatest, most beloved hero will never be told. Instead, a great fictional franchise was brought to ruin, thanks to the hubris and ego of the story's original creator. Which is sort of poetic, I suppose.

In the same sense, I think TFA had good things. Fin's arc and character, good visuals, some spotty instances where the scale or pacing were done right (like Rey exploring the Star Destroyer and the depiction of her life on Jakku), the interactions between Han and Leia, the basic plot idea about what happened to Luke and the galaxy after RotJ, that he tried to teach new Jedi and it went wrong, that the Rebellion won a partial victory but not a complete one and so the galaxy is still very much scarred by war. But overall the script and direction were very poor and the great story that could have been told, wasn't.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on December 23, 2015, 08:30:51 PM
Couldn't agree more, Fram. I think you've hit several nails on the head. (Edit: in your previous post! Though good points in your last one, too)To pick out a few bits:

characterization suffered immensely

Some might disagree, but I think Reyne or whatever her name is, is one of the most jaw-dropping examples of a Mary-Sue that I've seen in film. (In terms of a 'perfect' character, if not a self-insert) She fights for droid rights; outfights an entire gang of thugs; can make the Falcon turn on a sixpence with... I gather no experience of anything but speeder bikes; out-mechanics Han and Chewie, who are, in a classic Mary-Sue move, immediately wowed by her; seemingly automatically knows what a Jedi mind trick is and how to perform it; out-jedis and out-lightsabres a trained force user... At the end, instead of going to one of her and Han's oldest and closest friends (i.e. Chewie) Leia goes and hugs this kid she's never clapped eyes on before. And then Reyne is somehow chosen and trusted with the all-important task to fetch the potential saviour of the resistance, the long-lost Luke.

But as far as I can tell, the most character development she had is that she was left on Jakku, makes a couple of half-hearted attempts to stay or return there that are forgotten seconds later, and is a bit scared a couple of times. Oh, and the film comes right out and calls Han her father figure a couple of minutes after they meet.

I can't get my head around it. What was the reasoning?

Quote
the villains were interesting but hilariously ineffectual

Heh. See above. But at times I had the feeling I was watching some sci-fi version of the Hitler Youth. They were badly missing a Grand Moff or two.

Quote
everything was suborned to fanservice

I know what you mean, given my last post. But while I get there would need to be some kind of continuity from Eps 4-6, I think there were a few too many bits like, "you guys remember star destroyers? Here's one in the sand!" "You guys remember AT-ATs? Here's one in the sand!"

"Ho-ho-ho let's chuck her down the garbage chute to the trash compacter nudge nudge wink..."

Bah. There's more terrible characterisation. Captain whatserface stands around for a few minutes, doing little except looking metallic, before she ends up as the butt of a 40-year-old joke.

Quote
and there were way way way WAY too many convenient coincidences. Anytime the plot needed anything to happen, it just happened. It was incredibly lazy storytelling. It was bad storytelling.

I'm still not sure what the whole deal with the resistance. If the republic was reinstated against the remnants of the empire (remind me why the EU was kicked out again), surely the republic had an army that might be active against them? Or at least an intelligence network that might pick up news of a gigantic gun sticking out of a planet, before it blasted them out of the sky? Is the republic gone along with those few planets, then? What's the resistance's relationship to them, 'cos they come across as somewhat autonomous despite using the republic's navy, and seem all alone now. What's their role? Is their name a not-so-subtle flag, and they're some kind of maquis in first order space, solidifying the nazi themes? Are there any answers?

Bah. It's not as bad as trade blockades around Naboo, but it serves up a bunch of fridge logic. It's one of those movies that keeps bringing up hints of an unmade movie you might rather see. The first film was easier: evil empire shuns democracy, shoots planets, rules with iron fist. Bish. Heroic rebellion forms to fight it. Bosh. Ooh, 'clone wars', mysterious and kewl. Until they weren't so mysterious. Or kewl.

I should mention although I didn't think it was great my kids loved it and have been playing Star Wars constantly since seeing it.

I think that's another problem - too many miles on the clock.  ;) lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on December 23, 2015, 08:37:18 PM
I think if you remove the nostalgia glasses it comes off very poorly. A lot of the people who love it have been saying almost the same thing, that "It was Star Wars!".

I'll concede it managed to look like Star Wars, but it sure didn't know how to tell a story the Way Star Wars did.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Malamute on December 23, 2015, 10:16:52 PM
Loved it.

Hated Fury Road.

 lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gibby on December 23, 2015, 10:43:20 PM
You all raise valid points, and those same things were not lost on me. That said, I really enjoyed watching it - I wasn't bored the entire time, and I rarely go to the cinema so I guess the big screen effect still gets me. Heck, to me it was what I want from Star Wars.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 23, 2015, 11:04:49 PM
....Heck, to me it was what I want from Star Wars.

Me too.

I have seen it twice now and enjoyed it both times.
In fact, I think that I enjoyed it more the second time as I could really enjoy the background stuff more.

I think that the whole point of this film was to play it 'safe' and keep as many people happy as possible while setting the scene for the future.

This could (will?) be the biggest franchise of all time so they were never going to break it and risk any serious divergence from the original 'formula' in the first film.
They can take those kind of risks with the spin-off that are planned but the core must be treated very carefully.

The difference with this franchise compared to most is that it is the older generations (the original fans from thirty odd years ago) who have to be appeased rather than the kids.

Even bearing that in mind you will never please all of the people all of the time.


(And for the record: I could not stand the prequels, so this is a MASSIVE improvement).
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Captain Blood on December 23, 2015, 11:14:13 PM
Just saw it. Liked it. Thought Daisy Ridley acted the socks off the rest of them. Some very nice cinematic moments. Yes, a lot like the original Star Wars in many ways. But overall, different enough yet familiar enough to be enjoyable on its own terms, and as a worthy if somewhat belated follow up to the original trilogy. Looking forward to the extended edition  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on December 24, 2015, 02:45:36 AM
I'm finding that a lot of my conversations with the diehards among my friends are going something like this:

Fanboy: I really like McDonalds, it's so tasty.
Fram: I don't. When I eat it, it makes me feel sick. It's made with bad ingredients and is really bad for you.
Fanboy: But it's really tasty. It's good.
Fram: Okay, I get that you like it and that's fine, but those mcnuggets are still made from pink slime.

I wish they'd stop trying to convince me that just because they find it tasty, it must be a four-star cordon bleu.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Johnno on December 24, 2015, 03:03:44 AM
I quite liked it. And I'll probably see it again next week.

That being said, I had a few issues with the acting, story line etc but visually it looked and felt like Star Wars to me.

I've heard from a friend that there is a team behind Star Wars who have to approve everything, to keep it consistent. They don't want to mess storylines up. So accepted cannon or legends may no longer be so. Has anyone else heard about this?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on December 24, 2015, 03:08:42 AM
That used to be the case with Lucasfilm. I would assume Disney has some kind of staff who at least look at continuity, but if they're the same people or if their roles are as substantial or comprehensive as what Lucasfilm had, well, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: chromedog on December 24, 2015, 06:30:53 AM
I liked it.
I also hated fury road (I liked mad max and road warrior (aka Mad Max 2) there were no other mad max movies.

Also found Jedi to be cool when I was 14.  32 years later, it doesn't stand up to watching again.  Unless you skip the teddy bear scenes. 
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Zaheer on December 24, 2015, 07:57:55 AM
I think if you remove the nostalgia glasses it comes off very poorly.

I'm of an age where I never got fitted for nostalgia glasses, and I think because of this I enjoyed this one more than any other Star Wars film. Smiled a bit, chuckled a lot and was kept entertained all the way through. This may be because I have never had particularly high expectations of Etar Wars and went in thinking 'I want popcorn fun, put the brain into neutral' and was rewarded for that attitude. Like Mason said (or quoted), I got pretty much what I expected from Star Wars, but a fair bit more than I hoped.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Momotaro on December 24, 2015, 09:38:12 AM
Hey Zaheer - you're making Force Awakens scenery now!  ;)

As for the film... if you enjoyed it, more power to you!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Zaheer on December 24, 2015, 11:07:43 AM
Hey Zaheer - you're making Force Awakens scenery now!  ;)

Yes, that's a happy little accident isn't it!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gailbraithe on December 24, 2015, 12:14:58 PM
I was mildly disappointed by the film.  Would have been hugely disappointed, except I've never once understood why anyone thinks JJ Abrams is a good director or screenwriter, as I've found all of his previous projects to be poorly plotted messes of  continuity snarls and flashy gimmick.  So I deliberately tampered my expectations.

I like Finn, though I don't think the character makes any sense at all.  The idea that Stormtroopers would be assigned sanitation jobs makes no sense to me, and absolutely nothing about Finn's behavior at any point in the film suggests this a guy who has been raised in a fanatical military order since birth.  I thought the actor was great, I like that they let him have human flaws, but it felt like the whole Stormtrooper background was tacked on to justify later elements of the plot.

I also like Kylo Ren a lot more than I thought I would.  I was really, truly shocked by how very good Adam Driver was in the role.  I found myself wishing he had played Anakin in the prequels, because I thought he came a lot closer to portraying a young, still immature, emotionally conflicted Darth Vader than Hayden Christensen.  I thought the revelation about his parentage was...cringeworthy (it smacks of "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."), but the character was pretty cool overall.

Then we have the film's villain, Rey.  Wow did I ever hate this character.  I have to completely agree with everything FramFramson said about her being the most Mary Sue to Mary Sue.  Her characterization seemed to consist entirely of jaw set in grim determination as she proceeded to prove herself superior to every character to ever feature in the series.  I think the only character that was ever close to being this ridiculously OP was Lil' Anakin in Phantom Menace, and she's every bit as annoying and obnoxious.  I think the most offensive suggestion of the entire film is that somehow she inherits the Falcon after knowing Han Solo for like two days.  Over Chewie.  This is anti-Wookie discrimination of the highest order.

Ignoring the poorly realized characters, we're left with the plot.  Which was great, when it was used in A New Hope.  Here it is far more poorly realized, with nearly everything being driven by coincidence and contrivance.  It's the difference between the brilliantly orchestrated plot that leads naturally to Luke and Han rescuing Leia from the Death Star and Han and Finn going to the Starkiller and happening to wander across Rey as she rescues herself (naturally we wouldn't want to show her ever need any of the other characters).

I don't want to go on too long, so I'll just talk about one small segment which I think summarizes all of the deep and terrible flaws in this movie:  In both A New Hope and The Force Awakens the heroes find themselves on the Millenium Falcon, travelling through hyperspace to meet up with the Rebellion/Resistance. 

In A New Hope this is one of the quieter moments of the film, where the characters are allowed to breathe and we get to learn about this amazing world we find ourselves in.  We get the Obi-Wan Training Luke scene, which explains The Force and sets up the film's climatic moment, and we get the great character moment between Chewie and R2D2 ("I suggest you let the Wookie win.").

In The Force Awakens the same story beat -- the quiet after a big action scene, travelling in the Falcon -- is used to show us Finn randomly picking up Luke's training sphere and casually tossing it aside, as if to say "Remember that scene in A New Hope?  Remember how much better that scene was than this one?" and is immediately followed up by Finn accidentally turning on the holographic game table, as if to say "Remember that scene in A New Hope?  Remember how much better that scene was than this one?"

And that is The Force Awakens in a nutshell.  A never ending series of scenes that ask us to recall better scenes in the original trilogy.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on December 24, 2015, 12:28:45 PM
I would assume Disney has some kind of staff who at least look at continuity, but if they're the same people or if their roles are as substantial or comprehensive as what Lucasfilm had, well, I have no idea.

I found myself wishing that, if Disney holds the reins now, they could've given it to John Lasseter instead of Abrams.

I like Finn, though I don't think the character makes any sense at all.  The idea that Stormtroopers would be assigned sanitation jobs makes no sense to me, and absolutely nothing about Finn's behavior at any point in the film suggests this a guy who has been raised in a fanatical military order since birth.  I thought the actor was great, I like that they let him have human flaws, but it felt like the whole Stormtrooper background was tacked on to justify later elements of the plot.

Yup! Though I didn't particularly like him. Like I said, I tried to, but he's just all over the place. Scattier than a... scatty thing.

When he mentioned he worked in sanitation, I half expected a 'wah wah waaahh!' bit in the soundtrack.

Quote
And that is The Force Awakens in a nutshell.  A never ending series of scenes that ask us to recall better scenes in the original trilogy.

Yes. I guess this is why it looks like Star Wars, but for me it didn't really feel like Star Wars. Not fully. More like... The Chronicles of Rey-ddick.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gailbraithe on December 24, 2015, 01:34:10 PM
To expand on my problem with Finn:  Again, I really like John Boyega's performance, I found him very likeable and far more heroic than Rey Invincible.  But he shouldn't have been likeable.  He should ahev been a rigid, narrow-minded, poorly educated jerkass with no comprehension of how to interact with normal people.  He should have been deeply traumatized and express it through anger, intolerance and violence.  That's how a person actually raised within a fascistic military order to be an unthinking, emotionaless killer would actually be.  Even if they had a moment of clarity and realized we are the baddies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU), they would still be deeply traumatized and require years of unlearning before they could fit into normal society.

But Finn just seems like a normal guy.  If anything, he seemed like an escaped slave.  I don't mean to racialize it, because John Boyega is black, but that's what his portrayal made me think -- less disillusioned murderthug, more grateful to be finally be free slave.  In fact, he seems so normal, and not even misguided, that it raises a serious concern about the Stormtroopers.  Are they all just sacred child soldiers who haven't realized they are on the wrong side?  Because I've always assumed that the Stormtroopers were brutal, hateful thugs who took glee in terror and slaughter, that they were a hand-picked elite of the most ruthless, vicious and nasty thugs the Empire could round up (or clone).  And that makes mowing them down like blades of grass sort of morally neutral.

It's like, sure, blow up the Death Star.  Everyone on board is a huge asshole anyways.  But now with Finn, it raises this serious ethical quandary of you're basically killing a ton of innocent slaves.

I am almost certainly overthinking it, but to me it's just a sign of how slapped together these characters are and how sloppy the writing really was.  Finn's background seemed to have been added as an afterthought, as if to answer the question "Why would they send Finn to take down the deflector field?" rather than being the genesis of the character, and I really feel like that particular background/story -- a child raised from birth in a fascist military order who becomes disillusioned with being a murderthug -- demands more thought and more exploration than this movie was willing to give it.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Agis on December 24, 2015, 01:55:51 PM
Oh my again.  ::) I fear I will avoid this thread, the sheer amount of negativity is a bit too much for me.  :(
I liked Ep I-III, I am used to be looked strangely at because of it , I really like Ep VII and I really do not like all the bad interpretation here.

Just one example:
...Then we have the film's villain, Rey.  ...  I think the most offensive suggestion of the entire film is that somehow she inherits the Falcon after knowing Han Solo for like two days.  Over Chewie.  This is anti-Wookie discrimination of the highest order.
Where and when in the movie is she inheriting the Falcon??? Is it really suggested?
She just flies WITH Chewie to Luke. For me it is just that, no less no more. Not worth a second of thoughts...
Maybe Leia and Chewie decided to just let here fly the Falcon for this one trip.
etc etc

IMO a lot of the above is always assuming the worst or bad thing. (or what the poster things is bad).
And all in all, please keep in mind - it is JUST A MOVIE!  ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gailbraithe on December 24, 2015, 02:22:53 PM
Just one example:Where and when in the movie is she inheriting the Falcon??? Is it really suggested?

She's in the captain's seat, while Chewie is serving as her co-pilot, which suggests she's the new captain of the Falcon and Chewie is now her sidekick, which would be entirely in line with the formula Luke + Han - Character Flaws = Rey
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: mpennock on December 24, 2015, 02:35:31 PM
I agree with Agis, I loved Episode VII. Of course, since I also enjoyed Episodes I-III you may feel free to ignore my opinion.  ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 24, 2015, 03:07:15 PM
Just saw it. Liked it. Thought Daisy Ridley acted the socks off the rest of them. Some very nice cinematic moments. Yes, a lot like the original Star Wars in many ways. But overall, different enough yet familiar enough to be enjoyable on its own terms, and as a worthy if somewhat belated follow up to the original trilogy. Looking forward to the extended edition  ;)

Pretty much my thoughts.  I think the nostalgia goggles are in full effect here;  This movie is about as good as ROTJ, because frankly that movie doesn't hold a candle to ANH and ESB but is still competent and enjoyable.

I must have had lower expectations, because it met/exceeded mine.  Better than the prequels? check.  No endless scenes of walking/talking or shot/reverse shot conversation scenes? check.

I guess it kind of amazes me that people pick apart these plot hole inconsistencies because I didn't think this movie would ever have passed that test.  This movie was the reintroduction of Star Wars.  All the fan-servicey ANH nods and wink wink/nudge nudge moments were a little cringe-worthy but probably a bit necessary to win people back after the dumpster fire of the prequels; I have hope that with the franchise reestablished, they'll start telling more novel stories in future installments.

Hopefully no more death stars/starkillers/endless mcguffins though. Tired of that plot device.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: mpennock on December 24, 2015, 05:34:06 PM
Quote
I note unlike the films detractors who have clearly stated why it sucked on many levels you have not stated why it is a good film other than you like movies most people dont.

The film's detractors have clearly stated why they dislike the film - whether that makes the film "suck" or not is open for debate. I happen to disagree with them, and really don't want to get into the realm of spoilers with a film that has only been out for a week. To be honest, it seems to me that based upon the expectations some people took into the theater with them, pretty much any film was going to be a disappointment.

Each to their own.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: The Somnambulist on December 24, 2015, 05:44:11 PM
I still loved it!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: supervike on December 24, 2015, 06:37:29 PM
I think the critics have some good points, but ultimately, it was pretty fun to watch and 'felt' star warsy.

I also do not hate the Prequels (but freely admit they SHOULD have been much better and could have been so)  But they had some great elements.


All that being said, a few little tweaks I think would have helped make the story a bit better.

1.  Rey should have had an earlier scene (for instance in the crashed Destroyer) where she uses the 'force' instinctually.  Without any thought.   Maybe to save herself from a fall, or stop something from fallng on her.  It could have been done with her still not being sure what exactly happened.  This would have gone a long way to show why she got so powerful so quickly, once she learned the 'force' was a real thing, and not just myth.  She had it all along, just not aware of it.

2.  Kylo Ren should have not unmasked at all, until the scene with his Father.  That would have made that scene way more impactful, and shown that he, even if he is a evil sith wannabe, still is torn.  Dad says "take that thing off, you don't need it".  THAT should have been his first unmasking.  It would have also been cool to get that 'hey, he's just a angry kid' vibe right then as well.
 
BUt those are minor quibbles, I'm still excited that it was decently realized and enjoyed the heck out of it.

Bring on the Directors cut and Blu Rey(Ray).... :-*


EDITTED TO ADD:  Oh, and I LOVED Fury Road.   Probably my favorite film of the year.


Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Captain Blood on December 24, 2015, 07:16:04 PM
This has nothing to do with the quality of the film and everything to do with your intestinal fortitude... ...Luckily I dont think he has seen blade runner so I might be able to get away with watching the directors cut of that GOOD sci fi film instead of this lump of poorly made crud we are discussing.

Just keep it civil please. You don't like the movie - we get it. You're entitled to your view - although your rage seems disproportionate. Say what you don't like about the film by all means. But personal comments and vitriol aimed at belittling other people's views aren't acceptable. So please cut it out.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: majorsmith on December 24, 2015, 08:05:36 PM
I think you guys take this movie way too seriously, it's a 12 rated film in the uk, switch adult mode off and get back to when you first watched the other films, if you watched this back then you would love it. It's a fairytale in space.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Inso on December 24, 2015, 08:20:06 PM
After reading all the comments on here, I can only add one thing...

... I am SO glad that there wasn't a Jar-Jar Binks character in the film that I am able to look past some (if not all  >:D ) of the obvious flaws.

OK... maybe two things...

I am also glad that BB-8 was such a cool little character that didn't become a robotic version of Jar-Jar.

I felt a little empty when I left the cinema... like I had seen a good film... but it did little for me.

I enjoyed it... the time flew... but... I was waiting for something new to happen and it hadn't. I can't say I was disappointed because it was entertaining and had all of the flavour of a Star Wars movie... but there was nothing new.

If you hadn't seen A New Hope, this film would be much better.

I'm looking forward to a semi-robotic Darth Maul turning up in Episode VIII  :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gibby on December 24, 2015, 08:57:58 PM
I think you guys take this movie way too seriously, it's a 12 rated film in the uk, switch adult mode off and get back to when you first watched the other films, if you watched this back then you would love it. It's a fairytale in space.

Well said. I reckon if IV, V and VI came out today, plenty online would be picking them to bits.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nullBolt on December 24, 2015, 09:43:33 PM
I always find it funny when I hear people argue stuff like, "It's just Star Wars, you shouldn't expect clever plot lines."

Star Wars has some great plotlines in the EU. Even more mainstream stuff like KotOR has an exploration of good and evil (well, 2 does) and shows that the Force, even in it's very black and white nature, may not hold the answers to moral quandaries.

I'm not expecting KotOR2, but I'm expecting something with an inventive and intriguing plotline. If you erased the EU then you have literally anything you want to work with. It's like being given godly powers and using them to just feed and clothe yourself. Meaningless.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on December 24, 2015, 10:09:19 PM
I always find it funny when I hear people argue stuff like, "It's just Star Wars, you shouldn't expect clever plot lines."

Yup! I'm partly in Scurv's frame of mind - I'd like to see more reasons why it was good, not scoldings to ignore that it was mediocre. I don't even want clever plot lines, just ones that aren't confused.

I'm about done, anyway. I'll just say I could overlook the inconsistencies and plot holes and enjoy it - as I did with the first three movies (I actually like ewoks, for the luvva Mike) - if there wasn't such a suspension-of-disbelief-breaking, push-you-out-of-the-story element in the form of guess who.

If she actually develops a character in the next movie, beyond the new 'chosen one', I'll be less of a Comic Book Guy about it.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Captain Blood on December 24, 2015, 10:53:01 PM
Yup! I'm partly in Scurv's frame of mind - I'd like to see more reasons why it was good, not scoldings to ignore that it was mediocre.

It's not incumbent on anyone here to argue why they like something.
There are lots of pieces of music I like. I'd find it quite hard to articulate why I like them. And I shouldn't have to. That's the nature of creative stuff - music, film, art. It works at an emotional level. I like it / you don't like it. Fair enough.

It's perfectly reasonable to not like something. It's okay to criticise. God knows, I do it all the time - models I don't like. TV programmes I don't like. Conventions I don't like. Say your piece by all means.
But a/ I try to keep it proportionate, friendly and avoid inflammatory language. And b/ I don't demand that people defend their opposing view. Express your dislike the movie as much as you like. But don't start getting on other people's backs because they don't happen to share your view or because they don't want to get into an argument about it.
That's all :)

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 25, 2015, 08:38:41 PM
Well then,

following the locking by the good Captain, which I consider to have been necessary, I have decided to re-open this thread.

I would, however, strongly remind everybody that we will not tolerate ad hominem attacks of any kind. Still, in order to provide the discussion with proper momentum, both sides of the spectrum should provide some discussion points.

Back to topic, then!

I saw the film last weekend (2d, German dub) and will go to see the 3d English version on Sunday. Personally, I would have preferred a slightly revamped version of the Thrawn trilogy rather than what we have now, but IMHO, it does show some promise and has me thinking about an "alternate design Star Wars project", which is a good thing in my book.

Why did I like it? Very nice special effects, not too much VFX overkill, although some parts come close. Likeable characters with some potential if they don't mess it up too much. Good thing they got Kasdan for the script.

Foremost though, a lot of vehicles and scenes that lend themselves to 28mm. Planning for a First Order transport build as I type, although I also liked the ramshackle rebel resistance shuttle very much.

I wasn't too fond of the very "meta-heavy" parts, what with all the reference jokes - just a bit too thickly applied. Too much reliance on out-of-the-movie information - once I googled the stuff after the movie, it did make sense (e.g. Hosnian, demobilization), but the movie would have greatly benefitted from some strategically-placed expository dialogue without reverting to a wordfest.

Also, some very manifest stupidity on the Neo-Empire's side. Misallocation of resources if I ever saw it.

Finally, on the good side again, I quite liked the courage they had with regards to the survivability of established characters.

I hope that the next movie will be a bit "braver" and more stringent the way ESB was in regard to ANH.

And with that, feel free to discuss.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mark Plant on December 25, 2015, 10:46:54 PM
The main disappointment, and let's be honest I'm on this board because of it, is the lack of new vehicles and races for us wargamers in the new film. If someone released a new set that works with the WotC prepaints I was prepared to be all over them. Thousands of dollars worth of all over them.

But the same characters repeated (Han, Leia, Chewbacca) -- no thank you -- and Ren is just another evil dude in black cloak with light sabre. That silly wee yellow female figure with the glasses isn't going to cut much swathe on the wargames table.

Stormtroopers that aren't the same won't merge with my current collection, and ones that are the same won't give me much extra variety. Where were the cool jet bike type things? Instead we get more Tie fighters and X-wings!

What new races did we get, or extra variety of old ones that will pad out our ranges -- where were the Twileks, the Rodians, the Trandoshans and I was really hoping for a Hutt.

So all told, very disappointed.  >:(  This was an excellent marketing opportunity to sell me stuff and instead I got a bunch of stormtroopers and rebel fighters wearing the same old kit.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: NurgleHH on December 25, 2015, 11:28:16 PM
I saw the movie last monday (German version). J.J. Abrams suprised me with a good and fast story. It works well with old story going to new story. At the end you want to see the second part as fast as possible. No too long lasersword duels or battles. This movie works. So, for me it is very good. As wargamer it is nice, that I can use my old Westendgames miniatures for part seven. So, I am also as wargamer not dissapointed.

But it is my opinion, other ideas about the movie may be also ok. May the force be with all of us...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Andym on December 26, 2015, 07:56:23 AM
Ok the good points.
1. You could obviously see where they spent the money. The film looked amazing. From the sfx to the sets, all brilliant.

2. The new characters came across as very likeable. Finn, Rey, Rylo(when they eventually let his character show through) and the guy that played the Empire First Order General were ALL great.

3. The Millenium Falcon. Nuff said.

4. Harrison Ford. It's best thing he's been in for a long while and, for me, he makes the film.


Bad points.

1. The story was too much of a re-hash of the originals. I agree with Chris, the Admiral Thrawn book trilogy would have been a good way forward instead.

2. Rey's Jedi skills seemed to appear out of no where. One minute she didn't know how to do certain things, the next second she was a master at it.

3. The new Stormtroopers seemed to have awfully big heads for their bodies. I don't remember them being that bad in the originals!

.....and the most important one for me.....

4. I have to wait a year and a half for the next one!, :'(

Overall, a good film....and for me, the good points outweigh the bad.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nullBolt on December 26, 2015, 10:11:57 AM
3. The new Stormtroopers seemed to have awfully big heads for their bodies. I don't remember them being that bad in the originals!

They were just as big but the old Stormtrooper head design was a lot better:

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/2/21/Shock_troops_SWE.png/revision/latest?cb=20140619091751)
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/8/8e/FOStormtrooperCmdr-Fathead.png/revision/latest?cb=20150913021925)

The old helmets had the "head" bit only be the upper half. The new ones have it be the whole thing which gives them a real bobblehead look. Not really intimidating.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 26, 2015, 10:52:43 AM
Not so keen on the new Stormie look myself.
Those helmets keep making me think of an old fashioned and exaggerated moustache,  Poirot-style.
 ;)

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: wolfie907 on December 26, 2015, 12:50:37 PM
I liked it I would  rate it higher than rotj because no ewoks ( loved them as a kid but they are no good walking teddy bears come on now) was quite happy with bb8 even though he essentially  stole r2's part   Rey was alright even force powers up till she kicked the new Vader ass with no training at all  for me the best star wars is esb hands down so I was cool with them making it like a new hope but with better effects that movie is great and the special effects were awesome but we have better tech now I think the new one is prettier the little orange lady was not the greatest but definitely  better than the weirdos in Jabbas palace Han was great like what they did with the character lent some weight to the film it was telegraphed but good none the less Finn was good but I'll agree that he was way to convenient and his attitude doesn't fit the background I was most disappointed  by Leia Carrie Fischer was very stilted and her interaction with Han didn't feel right while they copied the death star I think they cleaned up the weak point much more convincingly what with having to take out shields on the ground  then open a hole  then fly into the guts and had to cause major damage instead of just hitting one spot
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gibby on December 26, 2015, 01:03:57 PM
Not so keen on the new Stormie look myself.
Those helmets keep making me think of an old fashioned and exaggerated moustache,  Poirot-style.
 ;)



Well thanks, Paul, now I'll never unsee that!  lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Momotaro on December 26, 2015, 04:36:37 PM
I like that Nien Nunb was there AND survived the attack on the Starkiller base.  But I'm an old softie that way :D
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 26, 2015, 04:41:26 PM
Should we get a "spoiler alert" message in the thread title now?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Pijlie on December 26, 2015, 07:13:26 PM
I thought it was a charming remake of part IV. That is also my main point of critique.

Rey looks better than Luke. Images were great. BB8 out-acted everyone.

My expectations were rather low and I guess that helped. But seeing it once will probably suffice for now. 
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: NurgleHH on December 26, 2015, 11:35:49 PM

1. The story was too much of a re-hash of the originals. I agree with Chris, the Admiral Thrawn book trilogy would have been a good way forward instead.

I like the books, good translation for us in germany. Even good material for the SWRPG. But years ago Lucas said, this won't be the next parts. So, not unexpected, but sad. 
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nullBolt on December 27, 2015, 12:58:32 AM
Just rewatched it and some things were really glaring.


Other than that, it was a pretty good film.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 27, 2015, 05:45:43 AM
Basically, Finn is the new trilogy's Jar Jar.

Hmm, he had me fooled.  If he's the new Jar Jar, I think that really shows how nitpicky this all is.  lol  Didn't really dislike any characters in this film, aside from smokers-cough Leia, who didn't really say or do anything of note. 

I would say that for Rey being a Mary Sue, I get where that is coming from, it just personally didn't bother me that much.  Her weakness is her trust/abandonment issues with her family backstory, and while I would agree with the argument that these were not utilized/employed enough in the film, I imagine this will be examined more in the sequel.  Although if they make her somebody's daughter, I give up. Enough is enough with the callbacks. I get that this was basically the makeup sex with the fanbase, but okay, we're all good again, now do something original.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gailbraithe on December 27, 2015, 06:03:01 AM
  • As others have mentioned, the fact Finn seems like he was press ganged rather than raised as an indoctrinated member of the First Order is a huge plot hole. He could've just been a guy from Tattooine Jakku and not had the whole inconsistency and moral problems associated with the fact they blew up a PLANET with god knows how many innocents on it.

You know, the more I have time to think about it, the more this really, really bothers me.  JJ Abrams has basically stripped the entire Good Vs Evil dynamic out of Star Wars, and turned it into a moral quagmire.

If we taken Finn's origins as given, then the First Order Stormtroopers are essentially child soldiers.  And given that the Starkiller appears to be the base of operations for the First Order, its seems likely that recruits still in training would be found somewhere on the planet.  That means when the Starkiller blew up, there is a very real chance that hundreds, possibly thousands of innocent children were also killed.  Never mind all of the adult Stormtroopers who, like Finn, had never seen combat and had never been given an opportunity to think and decide for themselves.

It's one thing when the Empire uses clones or recruits the scum of the universe to serve as its thugs (they know what they are signing up for), but when your enemy is using press-ganged children to fill the ranks of its army, that requires the heroes to take a different tack that wholesale slaughter.

And let's not even get into the horrific racial implications of the First Order officers, who seem to be entirely white, kidnapping black children to use slave soldiers...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: wolfie907 on December 27, 2015, 12:52:46 PM
Vader is a voice over so I'm not sure how he acted better it's two separate people. Is Vader more bad ass yes if you don't want to consider what they did to the character in the prequels I think it was brilliant to make a young dark side user throw tantrums, his parents are galactic leaders and heroes so of course he is a spoilt brat that makes sense to the character he has too much power and doesn't want to live in others shadow him turning to the dark side is hardy a surprise in these circumstances 
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 27, 2015, 03:02:29 PM
I did like the music in the new mos eisley cantina. I also accept it was better music for a hive of the galaxies scum and villainy than 'do da do da do dado...' which is not exactly dead hard in any ones language.

I liked the music too, but I dont get that music has to be in any particular style to be 'hard'.
Hannibal Lecter had a thing for chamber music and I dont think anyone could accuse him of being 'soft'.
Maybe the cantina patrons were just 'chilling out'...?
 ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 27, 2015, 05:18:00 PM
I liked the music too, but I dont get that music has to be in any particular style to be 'hard'.
Hannibal Lecter had a thing for chamber music and I dont think anyone could accuse him of being 'soft'.
Maybe the cantina patrons were just 'chilling out'...?
 ;)


Maybe it was jazz night?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elbows on December 27, 2015, 07:26:04 PM
Saw it yesterday and put me decidedly in the middle of the argument.

On the whole I would say I was a bit disappointed.  It's a "good" movie and I won't hesitate to own a DVD copy at some point, but I doubt I'll be seeing again in the theater, nor was it "great" nor did I leave the theater smiling and in awe.  I think it severely under-delivered.

That being said, my expectations were pretty high.  The movie was not offensive to me, just very weak in a number of areas which killed the buzz for me.  Still, I at least enjoyed the initial blast of the Star Wars theme and the scrolling text.  Always makes me happy.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: shandy on December 27, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Ok, I've now watched it twice - wasn't planned, but who am I to skip such an opportunity?  :)

I really liked it. I liked Rey and Finn, and I don't think Rey is any more Mary-Sueish than, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger in most of his movies - that's how action movie heroes are! I also liked how the old stuff was introduced, how we first saw the Falcon and Han and Chewie. I agree that Kylo Ren was a bit of a wuss.

I generally liked the humour and most of the dialogues. I saw it in 3D and liked the visuals. Memorable scenes: Rey climbing around the wreck of the star destroyer, the X-Wing attack over the lake - generally the tiny starfighters zipping around made me want to play X-Wing again!

My 12-years old nephew, who grew up on the prequels (and found the old movies the boring grown-ups loved so much rather, well boring) said it was the best Star Wars movie - us old hands may mourn the EU (I wouldn't have minded to see a Thrawn movie), but I guess it's time a new generation gets its Star Wars…
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: FramFramson on December 27, 2015, 07:38:41 PM
I think Kylo Ren was an interesting character - having the Dark Side villain remind you of twits who ragepost on the internet was a pretty neat idea. He was acted competently - Adam Driver's acting didn't ruin the character concept, but he didn't really add anything either.

The real problem was that he was ineffectual and silly as the actual villain. He was beaten by two rank untrained amateurs, and even played for laughs by his own minions.

Snokes has a silly name and even looks rather silly. The one cool thing about him was when you thought he was an actual giant (which would have been a cool Star Wars alien-y twist), but then it turns out that no, he's just regular human-sized.

Hux was alright but seems like a small boy trying to wear big boy pants. They needed someone with more gravitas for that role, a Tarkin to scowl disapprovingly about his younger charge's infantile tantrums.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nullBolt on December 27, 2015, 07:42:07 PM
Hux was alright but seems like a small boy trying to wear big boy pants. They needed someone with more gravitas for that role, a Tarkin to scowl disapprovingly about his younger charge's infantile tantrums.

(http://i.imgur.com/7RezWcz.png)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: shandy on December 27, 2015, 07:46:05 PM
I think Kylo Ren was an interesting character - having the Dark Side villain remind you of twits who ragepost on the internet was a pretty neat idea.

Now that is clever, I haven't thought about it this way - brilliant!

Quote
Snokes [...] then it turns out that no, he's just regular human-sized. 

I must have missed that - where does it turn out he's human-sized? I was wondering about his size myself...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: von Lucky on December 27, 2015, 08:36:03 PM
Saw it last night. Thanks to this thread I was made a little more objective going in to see it. The movie was good, not great. Disney et al were obviously at pains to not repeat the errors of episodes I-III, so they copied much of IV as they could get away with.

The reason for sticking with a tried and true formula (as the wife pointed out) is that the main audience are kids so that Disney has a cash cow for at least the next 30 years. Deal with it people with inner kids who are way over 30.

I liked that the First Order is now an equal opportunity employer when it comes to women, however Captain Phasma was underutilised. Additionally, there were still not any women in positions of higher authority.

While I like the updating of the armour, Stormtroopers need more butt protection.

Daisy (Rey) was the stand out and agree that she was a great hero (and a female one which was nice). Adam (Ren) was always going to have a hard time - acting teenage boys is tough.

SPOILERS
I think the biggest error made was not have him look anything like the rest of his family.

I also think that Solo ("Did you just call me Solo?") isn' t dead (worked for Gandalf). All the oldies (even Hamill's scene) were great. Ford really slipped into the old role with ease. Didn't like that he kept taking Chewie's gun to shoot guys - that was a bit insulting. Finally, with Rey getting the driver's seat of the Falcon in the end I'm not sure if everyone knows (subconciously at least) who she is. Did I miss that confirmation?

The humour and references to past films overall was really well done. That was obviously done to also bring the oldies along for the ride.

I'm with Elbows - a good film, but not great. The safe option was taken as there was a lot of pressure from people like us. I look forward to the next episode.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 27, 2015, 08:45:43 PM
The safe option was taken as there was a lot of pressure from people like us. I look forward to the next episode.

My take on it exactly.
Dont risk alienating the audience in the first act.
 ;)



Snokes has a silly name and even looks rather silly. The one cool thing about him was when you thought he was an actual giant (which would have been a cool Star Wars alien-y twist), but then it turns out that no, he's just regular human-sized.

I reckon Darth Snoke-Dog is really, really tiny.
In fact, I reckon that he is so small that he lives next door to Dangermouse in the kerb, hence the serious case of (very) 'little man syndrome'.
Why else would you feel the need to make yourself appear so big?
 ;)


Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 27, 2015, 11:44:16 PM
I got the impression that the Kylo Ren character was supposed to be a gifted jedi but one that was seriously flawed; he was petulant,  emotionally unstable, and generally a brat. Some of the exchanges between Snoke and Ren and Ren and Hux made me think that Snoke saw him almost like a plaything and a trophy over the Resistance. It was clear that Snoke was instrumental in Ren's destruction of the new jedi, probably rather easily corrupting him and that Snoke continued to pull his strings. I thought the temper tantrums were quite appropriate (and the stormtroopers backing off made me laugh) for a partially trained pet. I don't think he's supposed to be the new Vader,  he's more like the new trainee assistant Vader intern. This is purely my take on things and I certainly don't claim that it's what was intended by the writers,  just what it made me think.

I liked the film. I would like to see VIII pick up a fresher story though. I guess the star destroying /killing device plot shows the inflexibility of the Empire /First Order, or the First Order strategy meeting went along the lines of:

"you know what they would just not expect again, a deathstar"

"OH EM GEE! You're a genius Arthur, it's the last thing they'd think we'd do. We are so doing this!"


Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 27, 2015, 11:47:54 PM
"you know what they would just not expect again, a deathstar"

"OH EM GEE! You're a genius Arthur, it's the last thing they'd think we'd do. We are so doing this!"

It sounds like the New Order have the same senior management team as one of my previous workplaces.....

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: CompanyB on December 28, 2015, 01:17:26 AM
Saw this last night.  My son is exactly the same age I was when my dad took me to the original film in 1977, 8 years old.  And he was blown away.  He said his mind was blown and he's been singing the star wars theme and swinging a toy sword around with light saber sounds all morning.  This was me almost 30 years ago.  So yes...this movie rocked.

Lets face it, these movies are about the Skywalker Family and the destiny that surrounds them...everything will revolve around them and those whose destinies are forever intertwined with theirs.

For me, Kylo Ren was a better Anikan than Anikan was.  That was the exact angst driven persona I was expecting from the prequels.  So perhaps this movie was trying to bring that feeling back, to make up for not feeling the angst in Anikan's turn to the Darkside.  Kylo Ren is not vader...he can never be.  Vader turned to the dark side to save those he cared about.  He lost his humanity in the process and he ended up being the reason that those he loved died.  He was filled with feelings of betrayal, rage, pain and hate...that's what made him powerful. He was permanently in pain, and basically stuck in a robotic suit in order to survive....never able to achieve his true force potential due to his injuries...hence the intense hatred against ObiWan.  But when he again found he had someone to care for, his son..he turned back to the light.  Kylo (Sky Solo) just has granddaddy issues. He craves power but does't understand what he would need to sacrifice in order to gain it. It's now up to two more films to see if he can be redeemed or even become as powerful as he wants to be (that will take a big sacrifice...)  What's unknown is if these characters are even aware of what transpired with vader and the emperor. Does Kylo even know that Vader returned to the light? Does he know why he tried to eradicate the Jedi?

I like Rey.. It's obvious who she is related too...and that she has been through advanced Jedi training from birth. She was even wearing the Padawan clothing in her flashback to her youth. Ren also suspects who she is...and he knows that she will be powerful...as much or more than he is. Luke had an just an hour of training with a lightsaber in A New Hope.  Compare that to Rey, who in her backstory had 10 years of living on her own in harsh conditions, learning to fight with a staff, building strength and stamina searching for junk parts to trade for food, flight/pilot training on a X-wing flight simulators, and just surviving on Jakku. She doesn't just become adept in the span of the film...she's prepping for this adventure for over 10 years, being watched over by Max Von Sydow's character...similar to how ObiWan watched over and protected Luke.  So of course this movie follows the previous ones.  All the Skywalkers grew up on desert worlds, are good pilots, are good with technology, and are adept with the force.  The difference is that Rey was trained since birth, Luke may have received some training from ObiWan as he grew up on Tatoine, but we won't know until they do that movie  ;)

My only issue with the movies is that you need to watch all the other shows and read the books to get the backstory and fill the holes.  A lot of what transpires right before this film is in the young adult novels released last year.  The CGI Rebels series also has a tremendous amount of backstory leading into the creation of  the Episode IV Rebel alliance, and the use of Dark Side force sensitives in the Empire's Legions.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: Gailbraithe on December 28, 2015, 06:36:11 AM
Luke had an just an hour of training with a lightsaber in A New Hope.

It's never conclusively stated how long the flight to Alderaan took.  We know that Ben was training Luke during the flight, but it's pure speculation to say it was only an hour.  Expanded Universe materials suggest that the trip takes roughly 96 hours, or four days.  Luke could have easily gotten in 24 to 36 hours of practice.

More importantly, the only Force feat Luke uses in A New Hope is Force sense, the easiest and most basic of all Jedi powers.  He would spend years developing his talents before pulling off the telekinesis in the Wampa cave.

Quote
Compare that to Rey, who in her backstory had 10 years of living on her own in harsh conditions, learning to fight with a staff, building strength and stamina searching for junk parts to trade for food, flight/pilot training on a X-wing flight simulators, and just surviving on Jakku.

This is, of course, ridiculously unrealistic.  An orphaned girl abandoned to fend herself on a backwater planet would not develop any of these skills.  She would probably die, and if she didn't die she would be weak, malnourished, and be grossly undereducated compared to the galactic average.

I mean seriously, grow grab a child who grew up in the slums of India, earning their living picking through garbage piles.  You think they're going to be more badass for their rough upbringing?  Of course not.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Ray Earle on December 28, 2015, 07:01:22 AM
Finally saw it last night. Enjoyed it immensely. It's nice to know that after all the years between episode VI and VII storm troopers still haven't passed basic marksmanship training...

For me, only one thing was missing; and that was Wedge Antilles.  :(
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: shandy on December 28, 2015, 09:33:03 AM
This is, of course, ridiculously unrealistic. 

Weeeelllll, faster than light travel? Light sabers? Planets shooting other planets? "an energy field created by all living things"?  lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: Mason on December 28, 2015, 09:34:41 AM
Weeeelllll, faster than light travel? Light sabers? Planets shooting other planets? "an energy field created by all living things"?  lol

Bang on, that..... lol lol

Too much angst in this thread.

It is NOT real, ya know?
 ;D

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: Captain Blood on December 28, 2015, 09:34:52 AM

This is, of course, ridiculously unrealistic.  An orphaned girl abandoned to fend herself on a backwater planet would not develop any of these skills.  She would probably die, and if she didn't die she would be weak, malnourished, and be grossly undereducated compared to the galactic average.

I mean seriously, grow grab a child who grew up in the slums of India, earning their living picking through garbage piles.  You think they're going to be more badass for their rough upbringing?  Of course not.

You seem to be confusing a light-hearted, far-fetched space opera romp with some kind of portrayal of reality that should conform to real world rules.

Star Wars is a JOKE. It's always been a giant joke. Great fun, thrilling, with lots of tongue in cheek humour and moments of high melodrama - but basically one big jokey adventure. It's got dancing alien teddy bears for God's sake. It's not REAL. How can you judge it in real terms of what makes sense or not, and compare it to real world issues?
It's not meant to be serious or taken at face value. It's just a silly, enjoyable fairy story.
Of course you can pick a million and one holes in it, because it's utter nonsense. But then it's never pretended to be anything else. What's the point in analysing to death something that is so self-evidently trivial and fantastical. You might as well criticise Alice in Wonderland for internal plot inconsistencies. It's pantomime, not serious drama.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: shandy on December 28, 2015, 09:41:27 AM
Star Wars is a JOKE. It's always been a giant joke. Great fun, thrilling, with lots of tongue in cheek humour and moments of high melodrama - but basically one big jokey adventure. It's got dancing alien teddy bears for God's sake.

This! And that's a reason why I could never bring myself to hate the Ewoks - I saw RotJ when I was 8, it was my first Star Wars movie and I loved everything about it; I even built an Ewok village out of old logs. Why should I go back and hate it now?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 28, 2015, 10:25:45 AM
This! And that's a reason why I could never bring myself to hate the Ewoks - I saw RotJ when I was 8, it was my first Star Wars movie and I loved everything about it; I even built an Ewok village out of old logs. Why should I go back and hate it now?

Logs???

Blimey, you were posh!
I had to use old toilet roll tubes and cardboard.
We did not have real wood where I grew up...... :'(




 ;)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: von Lucky on December 28, 2015, 10:56:47 AM
Salo, Kids and The Human Centipede are your favourite comedies, right?
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 28, 2015, 11:04:49 AM

We did not have real wood where I grew up...... :'(

 ;)

I just about choked at this. That gave me a good chuckle,  even though it's true and also made me a little sad!  lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 28, 2015, 11:33:11 AM

The line they were playing it safe for the first one and that is ok, is really the one that sticks in my craw. No it is not ok to make boring safe cinema to guard the profit margin. It is such a cop out to quality that to accept it is to invite an era of blandness into cinema the likes of which has never been seen before.


I think that it is the prerogative of Disney to decide what is 'ok' to do or not.
They are the ones who paid billions for the franchise and are not going to risk 'breaking' it to appease a rather small minority.
I reckon that, by far, the majority of people who have seen it have been entertained and are not 'offended' by it as some on here seem to be.

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 28, 2015, 11:39:59 AM
I didn't think it was boring. I wasn't looking for a life changing experience, just a bit of Star Wars based fun with a dose of childhood nostalgia thrown in.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 28, 2015, 11:42:21 AM
I didn't think it was boring. I wasn't looking for a life changing experience, just a bit of Star Wars based fun with a dose of childhood nostalgia thrown in.

You quite obviously were not demanding enough.
Now get back to the cinema immediately and watch it again with much higher expectations!
 >:D

Bloody hippies......



Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 28, 2015, 11:45:18 AM
You quite obviously were not demanding enough.
Now get back to the cinema immediately and watch it again with much higher expectations!
 >:D

Bloody hippies......





 lol

I do actually want to go back and see it but they won't let me in with my bong.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Michi on December 28, 2015, 11:58:51 AM
I had no problem with the movie. I had been twelve again for months of expectation and was still when I sat in the cinema. I experienced not a single second of disappointment. One great movie for a twelve year old. I feel happy as can be and feel happy that I still can feel like being twelve!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: phreedh on December 28, 2015, 12:23:32 PM
Well isn't this a thread full of the same old mopey gripe-mongers...  ;D :-* o_o

I love A New Hope and Empire, I cherish Jedi as it's the first SW movie I saw in the cinema but it's kind of crappy albeit fun romp. The prequels are horrible, but I don't hate them. They're just unwatchable. Ugh. Also, no idea how it factors in but it seems to be important to say... so, I loved Fury Road and thought it was a great piece of art, I hated Prometheus and though it was a waste of time. Completely unrelated to this discussion though. :D

First of all... About Rey
We know nothing about her. It's obvious there's more to her than being an orphan kid on a desert planet learning the ways of the force in 10 minutes. We will get an explanation to it in the next film, I'm sure. Rey had training. She's been flashed by Agents Kay and Jay of the MIB. There's no way in hell the SW canon of jedi training is just chucked out the window. On the other hand, it's way cooler to have this insta-force than the fucking Jedi Hogwarts of the prequels!

And then the rest of the movie...
I loved it. In my opinion it's a better film than Jedi. The plot is wafer thin, but the characters and their interaction is great. I loved Finn (but he makes no sense as a renegade trooper, I fully agree with previous comments on that) and Rey both, they had great chemistry and just the right amount of bickering between them to feel like proper Star Wars. Nothing of the old forced (no pun intended) exchanges between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Clones and Sith. BB-8 was cool, Poe Dameron was OK but felt a little superflous in this film.

Yes, there are too many callbacks to the old films. Apparently it's a JJ thing. I don't know his work well enough to judge him. I see a lot of folks whining about him being a hack etc etc. While I don't think he's the opposite, I think it's a bit harsh to bash him for this film. I was surprised at how well it harkened back to the old days. Physical sets, no more stupid green screens. Yes, ship fights are CGI. So what? It's what CGI is for. At least they didn't just pour as many ships as humanly possible on the screen as in the prequels.

Regarding the First Order and their relation to the Resistance and the Republic... According to the wookieepedia it goes a little something like this: The empire is smashed, the new republic is formed by the rebel alliance (post Endor). The imperial remnants are eventually dealt with and the remains skedaddle off to the "Unknown Regions" (heh). With the galaxy at peace, the new republic (ie old rebels) start to demilitarize and according to some (Leia & co) grow lax. As such, a military resistance is formed. They're a privately funded initiative but they are also supported by the republic. All the while, in the Unknown Regions the first order go about their business and create super weapons for the resistance to resist. It's all a bit shoddy to be honest, that part of the story is ridiculous.

I see the First Order as a bunch of fanboys and that's what the makers intended to. An isolated enclave of ex-nazis in Argentina or the dark side of the moon who 30 years later show up and try to finish what "good old" Adolf started. It's the same thing here, with Kylo Ren being the ultimate fanboy. He doesn't even need to wear a fucking mask and still does. One that is home made and kind of looks crap! He's not supposed to be bad-ass, he's supposed to be a pathetic neo-Imperial with his little shrine to Vader and all. He wants to be as bad as gramps, but can't quite cut it. He wants to be bad so bad that he whines about the light side tugging at him. He's like a mirrored image of his grand father. I love him and thought it very risky and bold to have such a character in Star Wars.

There were so many good, redeeming factors that I'll forgive Abrams for making us think that Han Solo never in 40+ years of companionship with Chewie ever tried his bowcaster until now. Meh. A lot of other annoying little things, like Han and Leia never talking about "Ben" but "our son" (so us paltry movie goers would understand who they're talking about), or the jokes being highlighted to death at times and every bloody coincidence happening all at the same time... but then again, the force works in mysterious ways. ;)

It also felt like the movie suffered a lot from being heavily edited for running time in the 11th hour (which I think also happened).

So, I'll leave it at that. I enjoyed it immensely. Plenty of silly things, but many lovely moments too. I look forward to Rogue One next year and I look even more forward to Ep VIII the year after that.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 28, 2015, 12:46:21 PM
lol which is exactly why it is totally awful, always will be and this franchise is over man. Safe is boring tired and mundane and a safe movie has never ever received any critical acclaim or accolades.

I said before that they were playing it safe with THIS ONE.
Once they start reaching out beyond the tie-in to the originals they can go in pretty much any direction they like, so I dare say that there will be plenty 'unsafe' material later.

If they did something 'fresh and new' now there would be plenty of people saying; 'That is NOT Star Wars'.

Patience is the thing with this, I reckon.

Just enjoy it for what it is: Fun!
(Or it is supposed to be..... ;)).

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gibby on December 28, 2015, 01:40:26 PM
Well isn't this a thread full of the same old mopey gripe-mongers...  ;D :-* o_o

I love A New Hope and Empire, I cherish Jedi as it's the first SW movie I saw in the cinema but it's kind of crappy albeit fun romp. The prequels are horrible, but I don't hate them. They're just unwatchable. Ugh. Also, no idea how it factors in but it seems to be important to say... so, I loved Fury Road and thought it was a great piece of art, I hated Prometheus and though it was a waste of time. Completely unrelated to this discussion though. :D

First of all... About Rey
We know nothing about her. It's obvious there's more to her than being an orphan kid on a desert planet learning the ways of the force in 10 minutes. We will get an explanation to it in the next film, I'm sure. Rey had training. She's been flashed by Agents Kay and Jay of the MIB. There's no way in hell the SW canon of jedi training is just chucked out the window. On the other hand, it's way cooler to have this insta-force than the fucking Jedi Hogwarts of the prequels!

And then the rest of the movie...
I loved it. In my opinion it's a better film than Jedi. The plot is wafer thin, but the characters and their interaction is great. I loved Finn (but he makes no sense as a renegade trooper, I fully agree with previous comments on that) and Rey both, they had great chemistry and just the right amount of bickering between them to feel like proper Star Wars. Nothing of the old forced (no pun intended) exchanges between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Clones and Sith. BB-8 was cool, Poe Dameron was OK but felt a little superflous in this film.

Yes, there are too many callbacks to the old films. Apparently it's a JJ thing. I don't know his work well enough to judge him. I see a lot of folks whining about him being a hack etc etc. While I don't think he's the opposite, I think it's a bit harsh to bash him for this film. I was surprised at how well it harkened back to the old days. Physical sets, no more stupid green screens. Yes, ship fights are CGI. So what? It's what CGI is for. At least they didn't just pour as many ships as humanly possible on the screen as in the prequels.

Regarding the First Order and their relation to the Resistance and the Republic... According to the wookieepedia it goes a little something like this: The empire is smashed, the new republic is formed by the rebel alliance (post Endor). The imperial remnants are eventually dealt with and the remains skedaddle off to the "Unknown Regions" (heh). With the galaxy at peace, the new republic (ie old rebels) start to demilitarize and according to some (Leia & co) grow lax. As such, a military resistance is formed. They're a privately funded initiative but they are also supported by the republic. All the while, in the Unknown Regions the first order go about their business and create super weapons for the resistance to resist. It's all a bit shoddy to be honest, that part of the story is ridiculous.

I see the First Order as a bunch of fanboys and that's what the makers intended to. An isolated enclave of ex-nazis in Argentina or the dark side of the moon who 30 years later show up and try to finish what "good old" Adolf started. It's the same thing here, with Kylo Ren being the ultimate fanboy. He doesn't even need to wear a fucking mask and still does. One that is home made and kind of looks crap! He's not supposed to be bad-ass, he's supposed to be a pathetic neo-Imperial with his little shrine to Vader and all. He wants to be as bad as gramps, but can't quite cut it. He wants to be bad so bad that he whines about the light side tugging at him. He's like a mirrored image of his grand father. I love him and thought it very risky and bold to have such a character in Star Wars.

There were so many good, redeeming factors that I'll forgive Abrams for making us think that Han Solo never in 40+ years of companionship with Chewie ever tried his bowcaster until now. Meh. A lot of other annoying little things, like Han and Leia never talking about "Ben" but "our son" (so us paltry movie goers would understand who they're talking about), or the jokes being highlighted to death at times and every bloody coincidence happening all at the same time... but then again, the force works in mysterious ways. ;)

It also felt like the movie suffered a lot from being heavily edited for running time in the 11th hour (which I think also happened).

So, I'll leave it at that. I enjoyed it immensely. Plenty of silly things, but many lovely moments too. I look forward to Rogue One next year and I look even more forward to Ep VIII the year after that.


Well said!

As for Leia, what annoyed me was that Chewie was the one who needed that hug, not Rey!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 28, 2015, 01:53:28 PM
It will be interesting to see if any of the plot holes or gripes are addressed in VIII.

I thought the same about Chewbacca not getting a hug  :'(
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: Gailbraithe on December 28, 2015, 01:56:35 PM
Weeeelllll, faster than light travel? Light sabers? Planets shooting other planets? "an energy field created by all living things"?  lol

The things you are describing are fantastic, they do not exist in reality.  There's no way to say that "a lightsaber doesn't work that way!" because a lightsaber doesn't exist.  The "rules" for lightsabers are determined entirely by the story being told.  There are other elements within the Star Wars films, and all fantasy stories, that exist in our world as well. Those elements don't get a free pass to be completely unrealistic simply because we've accepted the fantasy elements.

Children are real, and we know what happens to children when they are abandoned and left to fend for themselves in hostile environments.  They don't thrive, they don't become super-badasses.  They die or turn to crime, prostitution, etc. Maybe they develop some odd skills like pickpocketing or street smarts, but starship mechanics and piloting?  Come on.

It's the same problem that Finn has.  We know enough about human psychology to know that a child raised in a fascist military order is going to have a lot of psychological problems -- problems Finn shows zero signs of.  Finn comes across as the kind of guy who was raised by a nice family.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: Captain Blood on December 28, 2015, 06:06:20 PM

Children are real, and we know what happens to children when they are abandoned and left to fend for themselves in hostile environments.  They don't thrive, they don't become super-badasses.  They die or turn to crime, prostitution, etc. Maybe they develop some odd skills like pickpocketing or street smarts, but starship mechanics and piloting?  Come on.

It's the same problem that Finn has.  We know enough about human psychology to know that a child raised in a fascist military order is going to have a lot of psychological problems -- problems Finn shows zero signs of.  Finn comes across as the kind of guy who was raised by a nice family.


It's a FANTASY. A  light confection of a fantastical jokey adventure.  People love it - and Harry Potter, and the Hobbit, and all the rest - precisely because it's silly, enthralling, escapist make believe. Why are you intent on trying to conflate a piece of comic book nonsense with real world issues and concerns? You might as well rage against Peter Pan on the basis that real children don't fly...
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: Ray Earle on December 28, 2015, 06:09:24 PM
You might as well rage against Peter Pan on the basis that real children don't fly...

Oh, nice one Richard. Where was the spoiler alert?  ;)

You may as well tell me Santa Claus is just the product of some fizzy drinks company next..  ;)  lol
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: Mason on December 28, 2015, 06:33:48 PM
You may as well tell me Santa Claus is just the product of some fizzy drinks company next..  ;)  lol

Nooooooooo!

You git, Ray!
Why would you say something like that?

Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: Gailbraithe on December 28, 2015, 06:57:12 PM
It's a FANTASY. A  light confection of a fantastical jokey adventure.  People love it - and Harry Potter, and the Hobbit, and all the rest - precisely because it's silly, enthralling, escapist make believe. Why are you intent on trying to conflate a piece of comic book nonsense with real world issues and concerns? You might as well rage against Peter Pan on the basis that real children don't fly...

This is bordering on a personal attack.  When you start questioning my intentions, you're making it personal, and putting me on the defensive, and you're not giving me much to respond to except to attack you back.

What do you want me to say?  That I don't care for mindless pablum, and that unlike you, I prefer to not have to turn my brain off in order to enjoy things?  You may be content to goo and gaw at the pretty lights, bright colors and loud sounds, but I'm not a child.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 28, 2015, 07:04:54 PM
Oh, for hyperspace's sake.  o_o

One last warning to ALL involved (and that means ALL).

I'm afraid I'll have lock the thread once more if this keeps going on.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer) Some spoilers
Post by: nic-e on December 28, 2015, 07:06:37 PM

You might as well rage against Peter Pan on the basis that real children don't fly...

Depends how big they are and how fast you spin round before you let go......
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Mason on December 28, 2015, 07:52:54 PM
 lol lol lol

This thread is just getting silly now.

Why has this become so personal to some people?

I love Star Wars but dont see the need to get angry.
Maybe some of us are not taking this as seriously as others.....?

Time for a very deep breath, I reckon......it just is not worth it.
It is a film, and therefore subjective.
No-one can MAKE someone else like or dislike something, can they...?
It is surely a matter of personal taste.






Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Inso on December 28, 2015, 07:59:47 PM
Look into my eyes... you love Star Wars... it's plot inconsistencies don't matter... you love the way Finn acts... you want to by the 1/6th scale fully articulated action figure with spare hands and a range of weapons...

(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/Inso/PsycSteve_zpstuecanep.jpg)

The film was OK, nothing to write home about but definitely watchable :)
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: nic-e on December 28, 2015, 08:00:26 PM
I'm sat here drinking from my force awakens sippy cup, stating up some force awakens characters, and even i don't have enough flips to give to start arguing over the film. I liked it, i see why others didn't, such is life.

We must all seek to find some balance, after all ,anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering is a path to the dark side.
Remember, when commenting on the internet, be qui gon, not anakin.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Gibby on December 28, 2015, 08:00:38 PM
This thread has truly driven off a cliff!
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: NurgleHH on December 28, 2015, 08:08:29 PM
This threat is like football. More emotions than necessary. Star Wars is a movie, nothing more. Like Mason I think there is no reason to overheat. Maybe closing the threat is better before some bombs are send to members here.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Vermis on December 28, 2015, 08:12:05 PM
Look into my eyes... you love Star Wars... it's plot inconsistencies don't matter... you love the way Finn acts... you want to by the 1/6th scale fully articulated action figure with spare hands and a range of weapons...

Sorry, you're not Rey. It'll take you more than 40 seconds to learn and pull off jedi mind tricks.  lol ;)

Quote
The film was OK, nothing to write home about but definitely watchable :)

The problem in a nutshell.

That said, Gailbraithe, dewd, seriously, I don't disagree with your complaints but I also agree that this is getting out of hand. I think it's getting time to pick up our marbles and go home.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Elk101 on December 28, 2015, 09:24:14 PM
Yeah, I'm agreeing with Dirk on this. Course. Run.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: grant on December 28, 2015, 09:26:56 PM
Saw it yesterday. Generally, pretty good - maybe 7-8/10 on the scale. Some parts I really like others not as much. The humour was very welcome and well done. Villains as mentioned were utter dufus types.
Title: Re: Star Wars VII Discussion Thread (was: Star Wars new trailer)
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 28, 2015, 09:40:13 PM
Well then, I think it is in everybody's interest to lock this thread.

It might be good if, for the time being, folks concentrated on hobby-related topics when it comes to Star Wars VII.