Lead Adventure Forum

Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Dilettante Gamer on February 10, 2016, 09:20:33 PM

Title: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Dilettante Gamer on February 10, 2016, 09:20:33 PM
The purpose of this stickied thread is to gather all GoT-related efforts and discussions in one, easy-to-find source. 

This first post will serve as the primary collection of: 1) Adventurers’ project threads, 2) visual references of heraldry, armor and other material culture and 3) other sources of inspiration such as scenery and projects from around the web beyond LAF.


This is a community effort! Please send all feedback, suggestions and questions to Dilettante Gamer via PM so we don't clutter up the thread. Thanks!!!


Game of Thrones Adventurers Roll Call

First among equals is Frank Becker, whose work inspired many of us and sets a high standard for these projects, whatever our varied talents and aspirations:

Frank’s
“SAGA – Westeros” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=44719.0)
His blog: https://tabletopdeutschland.wordpress.com/

Admiral Alder’s  “Game of Thrones WIP” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=65091.0)

Agis'  “A Song of Ice & Fire minis” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111277.0)

Akula's  “AKULA'S Game of Thrones Project (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=113100.0)

Arget8's  “Inviting you to a wedding (GoT Freys)” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94277.0)

Askellad's   "Game of Thrones, my minis project" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=99549.0)

Barbarus’   “GOT: A Saga of Ice & Fire” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=98527.0)

biomenace’s   “Wargaming Game of Thrones / Westeros n 28mm” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=76897.0)

Captain Blood’s   "To Westeros with Captain Blood!" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=62778.0)

Charlie_’s    “Perry Miniatures medieval blog”  (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=81825.0)   
His blog: http://theriverlandsatwar.blogspot.com/

Cimmerian’s    “Not another aSoFaI thread!”  (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=70093.0)

Coenus Scaldingus'    “A(nother) Song of Ice and Perry, and quite some Fire too thread!”  (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=103943.0)

CyberAlien312’s   “List of Miniatures Fit for A Song of Ice and Fire/ Game of Thrones”  (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=54484.0)

Darathar's   “Darathar's Adventures in Westeros”  (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=103077.0)

Devoted of Slaanesh’s    “Westeros for SAGA and Black Plague”  (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=71678.0)

Dilettante Gamer’s “Direwolf & Dragon Rampant - Gaming in Westeros” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=50534.0)
His blog: http://dilettantegamer.blogspot.com/

Don Voss’s “Don's GoT” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102920.0)

Faber’s “Another SAGA GoT project” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=84873.0)

flags_of_war’s   “Westeros SAGA Project” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=69122.0)
His blog: https://www.facebook.com/thecamlachiewolfe

**GS**’s   “Saga C&C in Westeros” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=70736.0)

Gunner Dunbar’s   “Another Game of Thrones project” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=74275.0)
His blog: http://gunnerswargamming.blogspot.com.au/2015/03/now-taking-commissions-gunners-painting.html

Hammers'   “What am I doing?” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=88563.30;topicseen#lastPost)

Harry von Fleischman’s    “Archers in Westeros armies” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=78677.0)

HappyChappy439's    “A Stannis Baratheon project log” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=106274.0)

horridperson’s   “horrid visit to Westeros: Dornish test” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=81678.0)

HvM’s    “HERE WE STAND – Impetus on Bear Island” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=41342.0)
His blog: http://hvm-workbench.blogspot.com/search/label/Westeros

jimbibbly’s  “Jimbibbly’s infrequent WotR and GoT thread” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=50049.0)
His blog: http://jimbibblyblog.blogspot.com/

King Arthur's "WESTEROS - Perry Miniatures - House Cerwyn Project" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=87866.0)

LordOdo’s  “A Song of Ice and Fire – Game of Thrones” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=62055.0)

Magus Kasen's  “Wargaming Robert's Reebellion” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=99852.msg1238779;topicseen#new)

MattW’s    “Westeros (not again!)” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=70807.0)

nickelkers’ “A Song of Ice and Fire (A Game of Thrones Blog)" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=65331.0)

Ogrobs' “Wherein I paint stuff, starting with Game of Thrones" (http://leadadventureforum.com/http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=90399.0)

Orange's “Men of The North" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=96781.0)

rfitchmc's “The Battle on the Green Fork" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=100407.0)

Sangennaru's' “The Hunters of Wolfswood - House Mormont" (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94172.0)

shadowking1957’s   “Game of Thrones Nights Watch” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=54394.0)
His blog:  http://shadowking-shadowkings.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/heroes-miniature-colony-87-nights-watch.html

Silent Bob’s “Game of Thrones Factions” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=54045.0) and  “Game of Thrones photos” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=66556.0)
His photos on Facebook:  “Simon Brown: Wargames Stuff” (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004032433286&sk=photos&collection_token=100004032433286%3A2305272732%3A69&set=a.254301558047590.1073741828.100004032433286&type=1&l=4af711f250)

Silent Invader’s “Games of the North 10/2” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=83691.0)
His blog: http://www.silentinvader.uk/index_chapter_wargaming.html

Sukhe_Bator’s “A Song of Fire and Ice in 25mm” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=46045.0)

The_Baron’s “Game of Thrones Project” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=80717.0)
His blog: http://returntologansworld.blogspot.com.au/

tomek917’s  “Tomek’s Westeros Project” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=51246.0)

tomrommel1’s ”Tomrommel1’s Game of throne figures” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=82156.0)
His blog: http://wargamesgazette.com/

Whyarecarrots’ ”The Battle of the Trident - ASoIaF project” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111091.30)
His blog: http://whyarecarrots.blogspot.com/

Wolfslord’s “15mm Fantasy and Game of Thrones progress on my blog” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=31707.0)
His blog: http://wwpd-wargaming-blog.blogspot.com/

Wulko's  “Wulko's Westeros” (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=103927.0)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread - Westerosi Heraldry References
Post by: Dilettante Gamer on February 10, 2016, 10:06:47 PM
From Sukhe_Bator:
There is evidence to suggest that GRRM has in mind a hierarchy of banners denoting rank and status with the Main/chief banners being on taller staffs and also multi-storey flags in use [presumably of the longer and narrower pennon/pennant/standard variety]

‘Hallis Mollen went before him [Robb Stark aka acting head of House Stark]… carrying the rippling white banner of House Stark atop a high standard of grey ash’ (GOT, p.562)

[At the Green Fork] ‘The white of House Stark was seen everywhere, the grey direwolves seeming to run and leap as the banners swirled and streamed from the high staffs’ (GOT, p.663)

'with 3 banners going before them, the crowned stag from the high staff, the direwolf of Stark and Lord Beric's own forked lightning standard from shorter poles' (GOT, p.453)

'A column of armoured men... They are flying a purple unicorn below the lion of Lannister... a son of Brax' (COK, p.592)

The North

Stark
Umber
Mormont
Reed
Karstark
Manderly
Bolton
Glover
Flint
Wull
Norrey
Liddle
Hornwood
Tallhart

The Iron Islands

Greyjoy
Harlaw
Botley
Drumm
Goodbrother
Codd

The Vale

Arryn
Royce
Hardyng
Redfort
Grafton

The Riverlands

Tully
Mallister
Piper
Vance
Bracken
Blackwood
Frey

The Westerlands

Lannister
Clegane
Brax
Crakehall
Lefford
Payne
Swyft

(http://)

The Reach

Tyrell
Tarly
Redwyne
Fossoway
Florent
Hightower
Rhysling

The Stormlands

Baratheon
Caron
Connington
Dondarrion
Estermont
Selmy
Swann
Tarth

Dorne

Martell
Dayne
Yronwood
Uller
Santagar
Wyl
Vaith
Qorgyle

The Crownlands (Targaryen)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread (VISUAL REFERENCES)
Post by: Dilettante Gamer on February 10, 2016, 10:07:35 PM
HOLD FOR OTHER VISUAL REFERENCES
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread (AROUND THE WEB)
Post by: Dilettante Gamer on February 10, 2016, 10:08:21 PM
<HOLD FOR OTHER PROJECTS AND SOURCES OUTSIDE LAF>
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread (WIP v1.0)
Post by: Dilettante Gamer on February 11, 2016, 04:40:57 AM
<Hold for gaming, rules, scenarios and AAR/batreps>
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: mentok27 on March 22, 2016, 02:26:29 AM
Hi there, this probably isn't the right place but it seems the most likely point to catch the crowd I'm trying to engage.

I'm Looking to ressurect my GoT miniatures project but I've ran into a bit of a problem. I want to take the easy route with shields and banners and just use the transfers available from
http://www.schildschmie.de/?go=artikel&ps=25604&subid=33359 however they don't ship to Australia!

So I was wondering if anyone who has dealt with scildschmie would be kind enough to act as a middle man and do a proxy order then reship the goods my way once they've arrived?




Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: LordOdo on March 23, 2016, 02:11:21 AM
I could do that :)
As long as you promise to start a Westeros thread on here  ;)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: MattW on March 23, 2016, 03:47:38 AM
Not sure if this is the appropriate place, but I came across this thread when looking up visual references for Freys:

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/armour-of-game-of-thrones.226810/

It is full of screenshots of the troops of just about every house as represented in the series.

I didn't get what I was looking for, but I'm sure it'll be helpful for some!
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Dilettante Gamer on March 23, 2016, 04:18:12 PM
Hi there, this probably isn't the right place but it seems the most likely point to catch the crowd I'm trying to engage.

I'm Looking to ressurect my GoT miniatures project but I've ran into a bit of a problem. I want to take the easy route with shields and banners and just use the transfers available from
http://www.schildschmie.de/?go=artikel&ps=25604&subid=33359 however they don't ship to Australia!

So I was wondering if anyone who has dealt with scildschmie would be kind enough to act as a middle man and do a proxy order then reship the goods my way once they've arrived?

Hi mentok - thanks for posting in here.  I thought these transfers were made by someone here on LAF.  I know I've seen them here.  I'd need to go back through all the threads above to find them.  I'd be interested in getting some of these too, but I'd like to get them for specific Fireforge shield shapes as I have a different shape for each household for visual unity.

LordOdo - Your emoticons indicate you know something on this. Say more.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: LordOdo on March 23, 2016, 04:32:08 PM
Well, I have only ordered them before. I don't think anyone on here made them actually, but I might be mistaken. You can select for what shape of shield you want the transfers, when you order houses seperately, not using the deals in which you get a lot houses all together. If anyone wants Connington transfers, I'd happily trade a few, as I've a huge amount of them :)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Dilettante Gamer on March 23, 2016, 06:17:59 PM
Well, I have only ordered them before. I don't think anyone on here made them actually, but I might be mistaken. You can select for what shape of shield you want the transfers, when you order houses seperately, not using the deals in which you get a lot houses all together. If anyone wants Connington transfers, I'd happily trade a few, as I've a huge amount of them :)

Connington - pffft!  My planned Targaryen retinue is waaaay down the queue.   ;D
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: LordOdo on March 23, 2016, 07:04:55 PM
Connington - pffft!  My planned Targaryen retinue is waaaay down the queue.   ;D

Hahahha yeah, already guessed not much people would be interested as most of you do the War of the Five Kings era. I will focus mainly at Roberts Rebellion.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Dilettante Gamer on March 23, 2016, 07:38:27 PM
Hahahha yeah, already guessed not much people would be interested as most of you do the War of the Five Kings era. I will focus mainly at Roberts Rebellion.

Connington set to make a comeback under the banners of the Targaryen heir (pretender?) in GRRM's next book if he'd just finish the damn book.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: LordOdo on March 23, 2016, 07:56:45 PM
Yes.. But I doubt anyone is going to make 52 Connington soldiers! ;D o_o
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: mentok27 on March 24, 2016, 11:44:37 AM
Yes.. But I doubt anyone is going to make 52 Connington soldiers! ;D o_o

I'd like too.... I'd need them for my Roberts rebellion targ loyalists.

Gotta get the 9 major houses, their chief rivals, essos nations, free companies, and blackfyre rebellion houses out of the way first. Lol.

Grand ambitions
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: wminsing on May 22, 2017, 04:33:41 PM
Thanks for putting this thread together; I think I'm biting the bullet on my GOT project this year and tons of great inspiration here!

-Will
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on June 27, 2017, 11:26:51 AM
Not sure where this would sit, but I have been pondering a simple campaign mechanism for creating battles and scenarios for my Westerosi.
My basis is to develop a stylised route map with rivers and coastline included but I have hit a wall (not THE wall), but GRRM's refusal to quote distances. My other attempts at campaign maps have broken down the geography into days' marches between key points so you can recreate 'calling the banners' and mustering forces to get a simplified strategic understanding of moving forces around to recreate conflict between the factions and houses.
How do you guys do this? I've found the LR/DR scenarios are ok up to a point, but I kinda want to go a step further...
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on August 11, 2017, 09:16:07 AM
Unfortunately, this wonderful compendium of creative interpretations of the world of A Song of Ice and Fire in miniature, has been adversely affected by the meltdown in Photobucket - a sweeping and indiscriminate act of grand commercial extortion and cultural vandalism worthy of the Iron Bank of Braavos  ;)

So some of the glorious threads referenced out from here, are now missing all their lovely eye candy inspiration  :'(

A plea therefore... If you still have your original pics that were formerly hosted on Photobucket, can you please repost them in the appropriate pages of your GoT thread either as direct downloads, or remotely hosted elsewhere.

You can use the LAF gallery facility to host images of your toys and models if you like - you don't need to be a supporting member to set up an LAF gallery these days.

I appreciate it's a tedious and time-consuming pain in the butt to have to go back, find, re-host and reload dozens of pictures. But without the eye candy, quite a lot of the value and inspiration in this whole endeavour is lost.

So please - if you can find a spare couple of hours. Why not dedicate them to rebuilding the imagery in your GoT threads, like restoring a beautiful picture  :)

Thanks.

Richard / Captain Blood
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Hammers on August 11, 2017, 09:18:26 AM
Good for me I upload to my own server space.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on August 16, 2017, 12:32:21 PM
As something of a technophobe  :?, I'd only just about grasped the image insertion-thingy before the PB/Iron Bank clampdown. Most of my images were less eye candy and more pretty dire w.i.p. shots.
I've been feeling the peer pressure too.
However, I will soldier on and try and finish off units/factions in the wake of a comprehensive reorganisation so I can post new images in due course. A recent advance in years celebration has left me with a fresh tide of plastic to convert into Westerosi, so I'm feeling the pressure to crack on again...
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Thomas Thomas on November 16, 2017, 05:32:30 PM
My wife just led her Stannis/Melisandra army to victory in our Knights and Knaves tournament (part of the Good the Bad and the Ugly world wide event).  Many players were playtesting new armies from the upcoming Olde World Edition but she was using an old Fire and Ice Edition army.

(Olde World covers Europe in roughly the Hundred Years War era and a Fantasy version based on the Olde World.  Fire and Ice covers the War of the Roses with a fantasy version).

Anyway - great to see GOT style armies sweeping all before them.  If I could figure out how to attach pictures on this forum I'd put in some shots from the event.

Thomas J. Thomas
Fame and Glory Games

(http://)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Ragnar on February 17, 2018, 02:11:35 AM
Are the mods aware that all these links are now broken as a result of the server move?
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on February 17, 2018, 08:30:52 AM
Ah, thanks. No, I wasn’t aware. I will try to fix when I have time. Thanks for thoe tip...
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Ragnar on February 17, 2018, 11:28:29 AM
No problemo.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 17, 2018, 11:36:29 AM
Don't bother doing mine again, there's nothing to see  ;)

I'll start a new one soon enough though.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on February 17, 2018, 12:00:32 PM
Okay, I could go in and remake all the links manually, but it's an issue across the site where people have linked out to other LAF topics, so a more systematic fix will be looked for where the old .de links are given. Bear with us for a few days...  :)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on November 30, 2018, 10:53:18 AM
I've updated the compendium index with a few of the more recently posted GOT / ASOIAF projects here on LAF.

If you have a miniatures project based on the works of GRR Martin which you are charting / sharing here on LAF, and you'd like it added to the compendium, please PM me to let me know. Otherwise I'll only get round to adding them once I spot them - which can sometimes take a few weeks or even months with the sheer volume of content that gets posted on LAF these days.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 09, 2019, 01:03:37 PM
I have been pondering a simple campaign mechanism for creating battles and scenarios for my Westerosi.
My basis is to develop a stylised route map with rivers and coastline included but I have hit a wall (not THE wall), but GRRM's refusal to quote distances. My other attempts at campaign maps have broken down the geography into days' marches between key points so you can recreate 'calling the banners' and mustering forces to get a simplified strategic understanding of moving forces around to recreate conflict between the factions and houses.
How do you guys do this? I've found the LR/DR scenarios are ok up to a point, but I kinda want to go a step further...
I'm still pondering this one, since GRRM's broad brush approach is fine and dandy for the storyline but the resultant maps, like those for Tolkien's Middle Earth, are only really good for larger strategic play. Most of us I imagine have smaller forces for more localised actions. Allegiances to the factions in the civil wars would aggravate long term border disputes between neighbours and the like which seems an area ripe for game play. Has anyone else developed a simple campaign system for their more local grudge matches beyond selecting one off scenarios from LR/DR and the like?
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: LordOdo on May 09, 2019, 03:39:41 PM
I'm willing to help thinking, as I may need a certain system for exact the same reason! I'm getting back to my Westeros stuff (or actually, more like starting over)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 09, 2019, 03:56:21 PM
I'm willing to help thinking, as I may need a certain system for exact the same reason!
By the old gods and the new, Lord Odo!, I thought I couldn't be the only one out there thinking this... I've been concentrating so much on the miniatures I haven't sat down and pondered how I was to pit the factions against each other! I don't believe there's enough accuracy/detail in the maps to do the traditional hex based system, but maybe a simpler DBA style web/network showing the main routes between settlements and indicating relative distances is possible, with perhaps the underlying terrain affecting terrain selection on the table. There appear to have been some interesting discussions among the boardgame geekers which we could adapt to a miniatures-based game... https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1963083/lets-build-campaign-mode-map-and-upgrades
Plus in my case it will help generate scenarios for solo games
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: LordOdo on May 09, 2019, 09:40:55 PM
I'm mostly interested in sologaming as well, so we could focus on that. I'm about to start reading over all the books (because I have just begun to draw all Westeros heraldry canon based, see image) and I could note down all the mentioned distances, if that would help in any way..

Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 10, 2019, 08:58:18 AM
I can certainly help you with the canon heraldry... as I have conducted a similar exercise in the past for the North, Crownlands, Riverlands, Westerlands, Vale and parts of the Reach.
Martin uses the sigil or emblems/badges of the houses, not the more familiar heraldry we are used to from the middle ages, and is only occasionally more expansive with his descriptions. Martin is good at giving the sigils but not the full heraldry. If you are very lucky the sigil colour will be cited. I have not found any other ref to the House Mormont other than the 'black bear' so I have left the field colour plain white. In Medieval heraldry factions often shared tinctures to show affiliation. This means a black bear on white works well for Northern houses and shows support for House Stark. In the case of Houses known to be closely associated with the Lannisters for which the field colour is not known you might opt for a similar system and adopt yellow/gold or red, or both as a faction marker if you wanted to go slightly off-canon. I discovered similar gaps in our knowledge researching regimental flags when I gamed the English Civil War period which required some educated guesswork in several instances.

Given the impoverished nature of Bear Island I'm planning on giving the House Mormont levy troops round shields like my Norse-inspired Ironborn, and given the longevity and likely cultural isolation of House Mormont a bear sigil inspired by more ancient looking Celto-Norse designs. Only the Captain will have more C13 looking armour like the Northern houses on the mainland and only the immediate household troops will be equipped with appropriate heater shields.

I am experimenting on using the bare bones of the maps published in the books as a basis for my campaign map. There are a few references by GRRM to specific distances e.g. Acorn Hall to High Heart is a day's march apart, while Fairmarket to the Twins is 8 days in heavy rain. On the book map they are 2mm and 16mm apart which works out well. I plan to use that as a benchmark for calculating march distances between the main points. I can use any variation/inconsistency to factor in likely differences in terrain (Acorn Hall to High Heart looks quite hilly, while Fairmarket to the Twins looks pretty soft going on the map). 
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on May 10, 2019, 02:16:44 PM
Interesting to know the distances you think are involved SB... It’s quite hard to gauge from the books, where most journeys to anywhere seem to take many days or sometimes weeks (unlike the miraculous teleportation increasingly evident in the latter seasons of the HBO series).
But then on foot, or by cart, in a medieval world, in a time of war and banditry, on largely unmade roads, a journey of 100 miles could easily take a week or more.
Most people seem to have Westeros mentally pegged as broadly the size of Western Europe from, say, Norway (Beyond the Wall) down to Andalucia (Dorne). Others have it as essentially the British Isles, which are, let’s remember, including outlying islands, around a thousand miles from top to bottom.
I’ve always thought it somewhere in between.
What do you think? :)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 10, 2019, 04:04:57 PM
I've seen discussions which peg Westeros (based on the wall being 300 miles long) to somewhere in the region of 3,500 miles top to bottom. Martin himself is cited as saying Westeros was comparable in size to S America. Presumably there is a fair amount of uncharted 'arctic waste' at the top end...
Kings Landing to Winterfell comes out at around 1500 miles, and the Wall a further 630 miles from there. Sunspear to the Wall is cited as a little over a 1,000 leagues. I've been looking at the map here which can be zoomed in for a larger format http://quartermaester.info/
By and large it seems to pan out as a fair basis for a campaign map. However Martin's deliberate vagueness for better storytelling results in something akin to a tube map, hence my less accurate 'network' approach. The various book references to travel times do not take into account the terrain. Casterly Rock to Oxcross is cited as 3 days ride, but the actual distance on the map as the Raven flies is not much longer than the purported 1/2 days ride from Acorn Hall to High Heart. King's Landing to Tumbleton is cited on the Wiki as being '50 leagues SW' but measures out at about 90-100 miles on the map if you believe Acorn Hall to High Heart is a 1/2 days ride /full day's march (approx. 10-15 miles). Wargamers using any map we come up with based on Martin's 'data' will be akin to ECW commanders using John Speed's 1610 maps. When you look at those it was a wonder there were any battles at all! Still where would be the fun if we knew for sure where the enemy were!?!
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: AKULA on May 10, 2019, 04:18:57 PM
Following this discussion with great interest - I need to think about campaign rules as well.

 :)
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 10, 2019, 04:41:36 PM
I just want a mechanism to assemble my forces and converge on the enemy which gives something of the flavour of the 'period' and the difficulties of manoeuvre. I knew I couldn't be the only one! We've all been too busy before now assembling our armies and playing catch-up with the good Cap'n!
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 13, 2019, 01:02:18 PM
I was looking at this Map at the weekend which seems to have all my campaign needs...
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/e/e7/Map_of_westeros.jpg
In the absence of anything concrete (and consistent) from Martin to go by, this would be as good as any reference off which to base relative distances and march rates etc.
References that do exist for the King's Road state it is nothing more than a trackway in places. For Valyria read 'Roman', which it ain't! If that is the condition of an 'A' road in the Seven Kingdoms, then apart from the Rose, Gold, River and High roads marked out, anything else is almost certainly not worth plotting and should be considered as 'off road' for movement penalties etc. Cumulative penalties for off road + movement through hilly terrain + weather conditions, would factor in most campaign eventualities.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 15, 2019, 09:03:37 AM
The things you do for your hobby. I have been entering Monty Python territory looking up the speed and endurance of Ravens "African or European?!" I hear you say...
“Doves and pigeons can also be trained to carry messages,” the maester [Aemon] went on, “though the raven is a stronger flyer, larger, bolder, far more clever, better able to defend itself against hawks ….”
In ASOIAF Ravens originally had the ability to communicate messages verbally, but as this ability was lost over time they reverted to being mute message carriers. Their ability to defend themselves against interception and their endurance probably mitigated against their somewhat slower speed compared to ordinary pigeons.
Racing pigeons are able to fly about 1,100 miles, reaching 50mph at moderate distances (500 miles) and nearly 60mph (under 100 miles) A 4yr old racing pigeon apparently covered 582 miles in just under 14 hours (averaging 41mph). In the real world wild ravens have been clocked at 25mph but I am assuming Maester-trained Westerosi Ravens must have been roughly equivalent to pigeons otherwise they would have shifted to using those instead.
I am assuming therefore that Westerosi Ravens can match the lower speed of pigeons @ an average of around 40mph. This would give them an effective range of around 500 miles in 12 hours and 1000 miles in 24 hours.
Looking at the map this places all the main Riverlands houses within a day's Raven of Riverrun. This would give Houses with vassals closer to hand a potential advantage in mustering their forces and those spread further apart more headaches. This would only work if I work in something about the amount of time taken for a message to reach its destination or declare that no units may move without receiving initial orders and cannot deviate from those without receiving subsequent Ravens.
I am looking at introducing a simple campaign mechanism to 'raise the banners' possibly using the DBA PiP system 'Player initiative points' (Roll 1D6) for 'command points' to move units or columns or dispatch a raven. This then raises the question of where I send a Raven when I have Houses with banners represented but 'no forwarding address' mentioned by Martin! This is the case for Paege, Charlton, Erenford and Haigh and a number of other lesser houses. I'm pondering a 'phone tree' system where designated major Houses may then Roll to call in their own vassals and use pre-designated mustering points. The Player would then have to divide his PiPs between ALL the Houses under his command, marshalling resources etc. and deciding which strands of activity to follow.
Interdiction of Ravens then becomes an option for besieging forces as When Robb approached The Twins in Game of Thrones to prevent Walder Frey alerting anyone of his movements. In those situations a besieged player would have to declare expending points on Ravens (but possibly not how many) and the besieging player would have a roll to attempt to intercept if they had missile troops. If they were lucky enough to score multiple hits they could conceivably kill some or all of the Ravens dispatched, thus wasting the enemy's PIPs and hampering their attempts at a relief.
The Player would be represented by a Commander in the field with one or two nominated subordinates. The Player would be the only one pro-actively sending Ravens on the move. News of defeats, victories etc. would be at umpire's discretion or an assumed response to events.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: LordOdo on May 15, 2019, 11:47:00 AM
I like the way you think. Furthemore I'd like to see a difference between the household guard (professionals, who stand ready) and levy troops (other men, farmers etc who have to be mobilized and recruited for war). So when one gets the call for war, it is significantly quicker to just summon household guards.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Johnno on May 15, 2019, 12:08:36 PM
Martin uses the sigil or emblems/badges of the houses, not the more familiar heraldry we are used to from the middle ages, and is only occasionally more expansive with his descriptions. Martin is good at giving the sigils but not the full heraldry. If you are very lucky the sigil colour will be cited. I have not found any other ref to the House Mormont other than the 'black bear' so I have left the field colour plain white.

IIRC I have a book at home (possibly Fantasy Flight) which lists the Sigils/heraldry of each house. I'll post the name when I get home.

Not that I would ever try to dissuade someone from reading a book or series of books looking for descriptions but there may be an easier way.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 15, 2019, 12:18:57 PM
I'd like to see a difference between the household guard (professionals, who stand ready) and levy troops (other men, farmers etc who have to be mobilized and recruited for war). So when one gets the call for war, it is significantly quicker to just summon household guards.
I like this idea a lot. I haven't made a physical distinction between household and levy troops in my own units, but I agree a more general fyrd/leidang muster would take a while to put together. The 'phone tree' system would achieve something similar with lesser houses and levies being ordered to RV at pre-determined mustering points once ordered to do so. Given that the households of Lords and lesser houses are most likely to field cavalry, these are likely to be the first responders to any emergency.
I'm assuming the Houses that occupy strategic positions will have resources akin to the Marcher Lords, or those sites could be bolstered by allocations of garrison troops from the overlord. This is why I am most miffed that Martin does not cite the heraldry of House Vance at Wayfarer's Rest, the closest House to the border of Lannister controlled Golden Tooth. I am having to go with non-canon sources (i.e those not specifically taken from the ASOIAF books) in that particular instance. You could also allocate lesser houses who have 'no known address' to bolster the defences of other unoccupied sites such as market towns or even as additional troops in locations on sensitive borders.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 15, 2019, 12:44:02 PM
Not that I would ever try to dissuade someone from reading a book or series of books looking for descriptions but there may be an easier way.
I've already been there and done it, Johnno, but thanks for thinking of me.
I prefer to use the available evidence from the books because the Wiki and other non-canon sources can often be very inaccurate and they jar to those like me and the good Captain who are more familiar with Medieval heraldic charges and devices. In other posts I've highlighted quite glaring errors and embellishments that aren't in the books such as House Charlton has mistletoe sprigs as a sigil but the Wiki shows red instead of white berries; Rosby has chevrons which are the wrong way up (the point downwards) on the Wiki; Manderly should be a simple all white merman; Crakehall is a brindled boar, not a striped one; Glover is a mailed fist, not a plate armoured one, the Ryswells have different coloured horse's heads without any fancy borders... and there are others... the simpler charges work better imho with the use of C13 to C15 proxy figures.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Darathar on May 16, 2019, 02:57:48 AM
I have the world of ice and fire book which is quite in depth and partly written by GrrM if anyone wants info on history, regions or heraldry just let me know and I'll gladly help out. Great art in there too.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Hammers on May 17, 2019, 11:51:13 AM

 on largely unmade roads,


I am not sure about that. According to Ice and Fire, one of the kings, it may have been Aegon II or III laid out roads on a seeminglu roman scale.
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 17, 2019, 12:48:22 PM
Certainly all the descriptions of the roads I have read in ASOIAF would make a Roman weep for shame...
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Plynkes on May 17, 2019, 12:55:04 PM
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/39/163-170519125324.jpeg)


What have the Targaryens ever done for us?


Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: sukhe_bator on May 17, 2019, 01:08:45 PM
You'd think with all those dragons floating about they could at least run to laying some decent tarmac!?!
Title: Re: LAF Game of Thrones Compendium Thread
Post by: Johnno on May 17, 2019, 01:50:21 PM
I have the world of ice and fire book which is quite in depth and partly written by GrrM if anyone wants info on history, regions or heraldry just let me know and I'll gladly help out. Great art in there too.

That's the one I have.