I think I will get up at 3AM local and watch.
Peder
(get a Now TV box James, they've also got all the Star Wars films, Clone Wars and Rebels).
I don't have enough time to watch whats on normal telly and dvd let alone get another source of things to watch lol
cheers
James
I have just started on Star Wars; Rebels too.
If you have not seen that with the boy, give it a go.
He will love it.
(As I must confess I am enjoying it too.... ;)).
I only do dvd and finished watching Season five on Friday.
Roll on next year lol
We're about half way through Rebels season 1 but have focused on Clone Wars for continuity.
I think I will get up at 3AM local and watch.
Peder
I gave up part way through season 2. Haven't missed it.
Well, hopefully you watch Walking Dead, or you are missing the two reasons to own a TV.
That was fun :D
I'm still enjoying it. More so than the books, which I gave up on due to overdosing on misery. I'll be watching tomorrow (get a Now TV box James, they've also got all the Star Wars films, Clone Wars and Rebels).
I kinda lost respect for GoT last season. The plot moved with all the speed and suspense of a glacier, too much focus on cheap shock thrills - the amount of degredation and rape that female characters have to go thorugh got too much for me.
And the Sand Snakes - what a let down :? Rarely have I been so disapoointed for something I looked forward to. Poor dialogie in all their scens, poorly choreographed fights, flat characters... Meh.
Now yes I know, the show is the show and the books are the books.... But damn. If you've read the books and just seen that episode, you will know what plot / characters I am talking about. WTF??? It does seem that all the wonderfully complex plots of the book have been done away with for cheap thrills, which upon close scrutiny really make NO sense. Ah well....
No spoiler, and I'll try not to gush but that was pretty ruddy good. It seemed to me that they've upped their game even further in the location, graphics, scenery and props department. Very inspiring. Budget increase, advances in tech or both, I guess.
Well, hopefully you watch Walking Dead, or you are missing the two reasons to own a TV.
The books had all sorts of extra intrigue that kept things interesting, and could balance out the other plotlines when they were depressing.
Charlie_: Is the local bowyer Steve Ralphs?
I've got a couple of recurve bows made by Steve....
I can think of a few people who wont be surprised, though.
;D ;D :)
I'll still be watching every episode of course. ;)
Here is a spoiler which may tilt the balance of a few sceptics among you: Carice van Houten is showing her bosom to the camera again.
Episode two was very good.Lots to like.
I really think the whole Melisandre / Davos / Jon's resurrection thing makes no sense. Why the hell does Davos care so much about John, he barely knew the guy! And cares so much that he is willing to turn to the Red God and the woman he despises to try and bring him back from the dead! Which of them first said "Hey wouldn't it be cool if we could bring him back from the dead?" He basically goes to her and asks "So, do you know any magic spells that would re-animate him?" And that whole last scene was so.. obvious. As if any viewer was NOT expecting that predictable gasping-as-he-opens-his-eyes bit at the end.
Episode 2 was much better than 1 (although I still enjoyed that one ) I'm just pleased Thrones is back!
I'll be happier when Ramsey Bolton gets his come uppance though...
It really irritated me that Roose got killed by Ramsey. In the books and earlier in the show, Roose is always fully aware of what kind of monster Ramsey is and he's always ten steps ahead of him. Roose would've had Karstark ready to stab Ramsey in the back in the event that he had a son.
SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 1 AHOY
See that's one of the events which may still actually happen in the book, in fact its perfectly plausible. But the way they did it was just.... boring.
Wow, ANOTHER semi-major character being stabbed unexpectedly.... I think most viewers must be getting immune to the emotional impact of stabbings by now. If it happens in the books, I think it would be much more effective if it happened 'off-screen' as it were, so certain POV characters hear the news that Roose Bolton is dead, and there are rumours his bastard did it. Much more interesting!
Also, in regards to Davos...
I'm gonna quote a youtube video I just watched about the episode, which put it better than I could - "Davos comes in, and asks Melisandre to resurrect Jon Snow. WHY? Why on earth would Davos want Jon Snow resurrected? What is his dog in this fight? Davos essentially had two motives - to make Stannis king, and help the wall in their fight against the white walkers. Davos barely knew Jon, and what he did know about Jon was that he was a pretty divisive leader - he got himself assassinated. Why would Davos, a man who blames Melisandre for the death of his son, go to her and ask her to resurrect Jon? The whole reason they went to the wall was that dead people were rising, and marching against it. The entire Davos character is someone who doesn't like black magic, but now randomly for no good reason he wants Melisandre to dabble in it and resurrect Jon. Davos speaks with all this urgency in the scene, but there's no urgency."
I really don't think you should be posting spoilers here. Read this thread from the start and I think you'll see it it the nice thing to not do.
Episode 2 was much better.
Still, the huge plothole at the end of episode 1 is still irritating...
SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 1 AHOY
Melisandre takes her necklace off earlier in the series. If that's the only thing holding her together, then she should've been old woman form in a bathtub scene earlier on.
I liked that scene. I't is not really clear that it is the necklace which is the One Ring of Melissandre. Maybe she draws powers from it, maybe she just decided to let go for a night and 'act her age'.
Anyway, I am sure the people at Elizabeth Arden is very interested to know how she does that.
It's also a big deal because the reason Melisandre can start doing her magics and all that is because the dragons are back in the world. Or at least it's very, very heavily implied that it is the case.
You can tell when the writers get away from GRRM's book-script since they start to act weird and the lines are awful. I mean, in the latest episode Tyrion says, "I drink and I think a lot, that's what I do." The flanderisation is unreal.
Heavily implied in the books or TV or both? It's entirely possible that I've not been watching closely enough but I haven't taken that connection from the TV.
Regarding last week's 'continuity blunder', I just don't see it that way. I also imagine that's she powerful enough to reveal herself as and when she wants to - she's actually more powerful than she herself thought, as she discovered this week.
That line by Tyrion was my favourite* of the episode. It seemed so apt and amused me. :D
*closely followed by 'next time I get a good idea like that, punch me in the head' ;)
It's also a big deal because the reason Melisandre can start doing her magics and all that is because the dragons are back in the world. Or at least it's very, very heavily implied that it is the case.
See that's one of the events which may still actually happen in the book, in fact its perfectly plausible. But the way they did it was just.... boring.
Wow, ANOTHER semi-major character being stabbed unexpectedly.... I think most viewers must be getting immune to the emotional impact of stabbings by now. If it happens in the books, I think it would be much more effective if it happened 'off-screen' as it were, so certain POV characters hear the news that Roose Bolton is dead, and there are rumours his bastard did it. Much more interesting!
Ah thanks TFB :). That all helps with my understanding.
It kinda makes me glad I didn't read* the books as if I had, I would have been invested in them, and doubt I would be enjoying the TV presentation.
*to be honest I hadn't even heard of the books until I started watching the TV presentation, and I didn't pick that up until part way through series 1. :o
The Rickon thing is moronic. What a mischaracterisation of almost every Northerner in the series.
The Rickon thing is moronic. What a mischaracterisation of almost every Northerner in the series.
Yeah, that bit did have a very contrived feel. I wasn't keen on it. The Arya stuff is also getting very samey and a little clichéd.
I'm not a fan simply because [spoiler incoming]....
They killed Shaggydog! He should at least have had the chance to maul some bad guys.
And yes, the Arya storyline is without a doubt the most boring part of the show now. Shame, as her scenes used to be among the best.
I still hope there is SOME sort of northern conspiracy going on that will bring the Boltons down. Even if the Umbers are aligning the wrong way. Still... Smalljon doesn't seem particularly matey, he might well be planning to ally with Ramsay to defeat the wildings then turn on him?
They've re-introduced House Umber and House Karstark and so far painted them as 'bad guys'. I'm hoping they introduce some 'good guy' northerners out for revenge. Wyman Manderly? Lady Dustin? The Mountain Clans?
- Don't like the way Weiss and Benioff are casually killing off so many of the senior characters in a random fashion - that's Prince Doran, Balon Greyjoy and Roose Bolton, all swiftly despatched, as was Stannis at the end of S5. None of this happens in the books, nor looks likely to happen in the books (with the possible exception of Balon's fall from the bridge, which is an accident - probably - and not a push from Euron, who is not there at the time).
The Greyjoy storyline is still largely missing in action.
Where is Littlefinger, he of the increasingly broad Irish accent?
I believe that Jon Snow is not the bastard son of Ned Stark but his bastard nephew...I'll let you work out who is the mum (easy) and then work out the dad !
Indeed, Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark is the most common assumption. Although since that theory has been no.1 on the internet for the last several years, Martin will probably resolve it in some other, less obvious way in the books. Or not resolve it at all, because he's a contrary old wotsit...
HBO will probably go for the obvious, though.
There are plenty other theories. (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow/Theories)
But given that we all want to see Jon Snow riding a dragon, I'm sticking with the theory that he's part Targaryen - despite his rather obvious lack of silver blond hair... ::)
Indeed, Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark is the most common assumption. Although since that theory has been no.1 on the internet for the last several years, Martin will probably resolve it in some other, less obvious way in the books. Or not resolve it at all, because he's a contrary old wotsit...
HBO will probably go for the obvious, though.
There are plenty other theories. (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Snow/Theories)
But given that we all want to see Jon Snow riding a dragon, I'm sticking with the theory that he's part Targaryen - despite his rather obvious lack of silver blond hair... ::)
I want to see Tyrion Lannister riding a dragon, which is obviously in the offing.
Just saw the latest episode...
Yeah, I have lost any faith I once had in this show. That last scene was laugh-out-loud ridiculous....
None of this happens in the books, nor looks likely to happen in the books (with the possible exception of Balon's fall from the bridge, which is an accident - probably - and not a push from Euron, who is not there at the time).
I thought that in the books, Aeron/Asha/other Ironborn were openly questioning why Euron so conveniently turned up after Balon bites the dust, so this could be a "we had no POV character to see it happen vs the omnipotent camera" situation.
Absolutely. And it's a bit of a shame. Rumours, gossip and unreliable narrators are much more fun! The camera leaves no doubt, which is boring.
Just saw the latest episode...
Yeah, I have lost any faith I once had in this show. That last scene was laugh-out-loud ridiculous....
I like the way it ended last night. It promises a way out of the whole tedious slavers bay going-nowhere-storyline Daenerys has been stuck in for the past manny seasons.
Now she might actually go somewhere and do something. Tyrion has also conveniently fixed the whole slavers bay domestic problem.
So now she can retur to Westeros leading a horde of Dothraki and her dragons.
And basically a retread of the finale of series 1 where she emerges from the fire...
I didn't mind the ending, though it did highlight the Dothraki's appalling approach to fire safety. All those braziers and not even a fire bucket or fire escape! They brought it on themselves really.
It was unintentional the first time she did it so I just saw it as her learning from what happened previously and playing her trump card.
The Ramsay Bolton thing is getting a little two dimensional though. He is just an out and out shit and that's all there seems to be about him. Roose should have had him done in ages ago.
But how do you portray a man knowing fullhe has y well of what stuff your 'subject' is made but who has still not realized that you have pushed him one step too far.
That was pretty good. I mean episode 5. A lot of revelations crammed into one episode though, something one is not used to.
Prior to last night, the episodes so far have been mostly setup and little payoff/action taking place. This week changed that in a big way, and next week looks like the big event shaping up in King's Landing will take place, which as yet another event that has not happened in the books yet, I'm really excited for. I have to say, regardless of whether or not we think the "how" is good or how we thought it would play out in the book timeline, the "what" of these events where the show has passed up the book timeline are making the show much more enjoyable for me. I now understand how edge-of-your-seat great the show must have been for show-only watchers all this time. :D
I was not very keen on the idea of the Children chucking mills bombs.
That kingsmoot was seriously underwhelming.
That kingsmoot was seriously underwhelming.
I didn't hate it, but the "lets go kill my niece and nephew me hearties, har har har" Euron was pretty meh/bleh. That line did it in for me. :?
I didn't hate it, but the "lets go kill my niece and nephew me hearties, har har har" Euron was pretty meh/bleh. That line did it in for me. :?
Cool end scene in that episode...but left me cold emotionally. The whole explanation for the "Hodor-Hodor-Hodor" was a bit...dull...
My feelings exactly. Feels like a really cheap explanation...
I wonder if this was in GRRM's mind all along - or whether this is a hastily concocted solution to the mystery of Hodor, dreamt up on the back of a fag packet by Weiss and Benioff... Feels a lot like the latter to me :?
I always figured Coldhands was Benjen Stark... just because it was denied does not mean it is true. They swore up and down that Jon Snow was dead - in fact he was, but then he was resurrected. You could imagine similarly that Coldhands is no longer Benjen Stark, as he is no longer a living person... either way, the Coldhands character was not identified in the books so far.
As for the disappointment many feel about the showdown at the Sept, IMO that is basically how things happen in the books. There is a big buildup in tension for chapters upon chapters, and you feel like some climax is coming, and then it is delayed by a new intrigue o_o Frustrating, but addicting at the same time. I found the books to have wayyy more focus on intrigue and politics than fighting, and I found the battle scenes in general to be somewhat sparsely detailed compared to all of the politicking...
Yeah, I think that as an impatient person I find it easier to deal with in a book, where I can keep up a furious pace and continue reading to satisfy my curiosity vs. a weekly TV show. lol I am actually glad he doesn't spend a lot of time detailing the battles, it plays to his strengths and doesn't paint an unrealistic picture of medieval warfare as seems to happen so often in fantasy literature. I did find his writing in The Battle of The Green Fork, one of the few that gets a POV description in the books, to be pretty good.
Battles side, when there are 'fight scenes' they are dealt with really well. A sudden outburst of violence that has you on the edge of your seat and leaves various people dead or dying. Not treated lightly. I think the most effective 'fight scene' for me was with Brienne, when she ran into Shagwell, Timeon and Pyg in a spooky overgrown ruin. Particularly effective as at that point you realise, despite all her training and skill with the sword and desire to be a knight... she's never actually fought someone for real before! She's never killed a man, and you suddenly realise she's just a young woman with a sword (who luckily does know how to use it). Makes the scene really tense and powerful, especially as she has history with these guys.
Absolutely! :-* That might be one of the best scenes in the entire series, and I really hope they find a way to put it in the show in some fashion, maybe merging it into her upcoming jaunt down to the Riverlands.
Unfortunately I don't think that'll happen - they've made her into a killing machine from day one apparently. And there isn't anyone is the show she has 'history' with.Very true on that count.
I've recently been re-reading Feast For Crows and Dance With Dragons just through certain characters... Going back to the characters I enjoyed the most and reading all their chapters in sequence. I've done Jaime, Victarion, Asha and I'm now on Brienne. It's a great way to re-read the books I think, you don't have to commit to re-reading the whole series again, and reading each character's chapters one after another helps give a fresh look on the character and their story. All sorts of little details you missed the first time round...I'm surprised I've never heard this suggestion before but I think I'm going to take you up on that... I had just started A Game of Thrones again, got about 1/2-2/3 through and stalled out. I may start with Davos as he might be my favorite characters.
Anyway, when Brienne travels out to Crackclaw Point, ending in her little showdown, I was really struck at how eerie the surroundings were. Pine forests, bogs and coastline, isolated from everywhere else, very lonely... And a growing sense of unease and danger. And the unfortunate end of poor Dick Crabb!That whole Maidenpool-> Crackclaw Point -> The Whispers sequence was one of my favorites and has stuck in my memory quite vividly. I actually would like to do some House Crabb, Celtigar, and Mooten men in miniature form because of it. They're pretty useful actually, because they were staunch Targ loyalists and so would be usable in the many Targaryen civil wars and rebellions.
Was amazed that the Glovers didn't side with Jon and Sansa as the Mormonds did . The Glovers are supposed to be one of the biggest supporters of house Stark.
Well, in the book yes, but this isn't the book is it?
Well they're going full-on with unkilling favourite killed characters at the minute. Very glad in Sandor's case, I bloody love that scumbag. But at this rate we're in danger of the "anyone can die" thing being completely undone and getting into superhero comic territory, where characters are constantly "killed off" (wink, wink) only to come back shortly after. Kind of undermines the tension of it all, really. What's next? Robb? Ned? Tywin?
Hell, at the rate we're going, Theon even stands a pretty good chance at getting his willy back. :)
(I wonder what would have happened if Theon's real-life big sister Lily had decided to play Alfie's sister in the show like they wanted? I really can't see her as Ironborn, it would probably have been terrible, but the possibility is intriguing. The scene where Theon, er, feels her up is what made her say no, apparently. Whenever I listen to Lily's song "Alfie" I can't help but hear it as being sung by Yara to Theon. Especially when she says "stop being a twat." lol)
To be fair, in the books, there is a mysterious character with one of the septons who is suspiciously described as likeness to the hound, so he was probably always supposed to come back.
And the brilliant Tim McInnery, Blackadder's idiotic chum Lord Percy, as the grouchy Glover (he's making quite a fine line in these parts now - he was playing a fire and brimstone priest in 'Outlander' last... )
It is great to see the Hound back, apparently 'Cleganebowl' is a thing. Who knew?
The Danyrs thing is sort of losing my interest. After episode 5's "build me a thousand ships" from Uncle Squidly (Euron) the "how many ships will I need?", "about a thousand", "no one has that many ships" conversation seemed a touch clumsy.
I feel like Tyrion is somewhat wasted there (as things stand).
I heartily agree. The whole Mereen thing was just boring me to sleep... Clegane got the show back where the nitty gritty is.
In fact I think the show works much better/best in the faux European setting.
I had to avoid this thread for a week as I missed last week's episode. I did enjoy the double feature but the two episodes kind of got mixed into one. Highlights and lowlights?
It is great to see the Hound back, apparently 'Cleganebowl' is a thing. Who knew?
It was also good to see the Blackfish back too, I liked him in the books even if he didn't have a tremendously big part.
Lady Mormont was a scene stealer.
The High Sparrow seems to be increasingly just another powerbroker, simply coming at things from a different angle.
The Danyrs thing is sort of losing my interest. After episode 5's "build me a thousand ships" from Uncle Squidly (Euron) the "how many ships will I need?", "about a thousand", "no one has that many ships" conversation seemed a touch clumsy.
I feel like Tyrion is somewhat wasted there (as things stand).
I'm assuming that episode 9 will be the traditional battle episode so that only leaves next week's episode to set it up. Will it be the Riverrun siege or the Winterfell battle. I deliberately didn't say seige there as I seem to recall Roose Bolton having a go at Ramsay for charging out to Stannis. I was wondering if he will cockily try the same to Jon but maybe he'll be the one taken by surprise?
I dunno... my guess is a Deus ex Machina where Littlefinger appears to ride in and save the day just as Jon's forces are on the brink of defeat. ::)
The Danyrs thing is sort of losing my interest. After episode 5's "build me a thousand ships" from Uncle Squidly (Euron) the "how many ships will I need?", "about a thousand", "no one has that many ships" conversation seemed a touch clumsy.
Yep. I'd put money on it.
Littlefinger of the increasingly Irish accent to the rescue.
That is very funny Steve, and very true. I think now Weiss, Benioff and co are off the leash and running without the constraints of the books, the exposition and dialogue has been a lot more clunky. The first few seasons had lots of killer lines. This season noticeably less so to my mind.
That is very funny Steve, and very true. I think now Weiss, Benioff and co are off the leash and running without the constraints of the books, the exposition and dialogue has been a lot more clunky. The first few seasons had lots of killer lines. This season noticeably less so to my mind.
The one that sticks in my mind recently is "Let's go murder my niece and nephew" from Euron.
That was most definitely a low point in the production. :o
That, and the not at all rousing speech Dany made before the horsemen rabble.
I thought the Arya and the waif chase scene was just like Terminator too ;).
The Hound had some great lines in this episode.
Need to know the rest of Tyrions joke though :).
The trailer for next weeks episode looks like it will be the best of the series and maybe of the show.
I much prefer the idea of the Lannister army consisting of minor lords and knights with their retinues rather than a horde of clone troopers.
Just watched it. I hope the Umbers turn on Ramsay just when the little shit thinks he's won. The Bolton 'phalanx' seemed a little' 300' though.
I remain mystified by the ever-changing snow conditions at Winterfell! What with the melt since Stannis got defeated it's no wonder the southerners don't take the talk of White Walkers seriously......
Wasn't the big cache of wildfire used during the battle of the Blackwater?
Have anyone heard if they are already planning to go past seven seasons?
Another one of the problems on the TV show is that they've pretty much just skipped over the dragon-magic connection...
A lot of people have said to me, "Yeah but like isn't the Red God the real one because Melisandre can do magic?" and the answer is...
I personally really don't care much about Jon's parentage, or at least I really hope it doesn't actually matter in terms of the larger plot. People obsess about this sort of thing... I would LOVE it if Martin revealed it, and it had no effect on the story. An interesting little insight into the back stories of some of the characters.... But irrelevant to the present day.
... too much focus on cheap shock thrills - the amount of degradation and rape that female characters have to go through got too much for me.
I am note very impressed by episode 8. As usual it has its ups and down but it feels, as many episodes in S6 , inconsistent with the storytelling of previous episodes. I have thought several of the episodes in this season all in all great, but there is some hamfisted writing in the history arches and character development. Some cuts seem quite unnecessary in a story so crammed with threads.
The 'joke cut' in for example. What was the point, or at least *necessary* point?
The surrender of Riverrun was completely unconvincing.
The Brianne-Jaime plotline seems uncharacteristically soppy.
The Arya-FacelessGirl bossfight was not bad but I had hoped for more in that showdown, what with all building up towards it.
I really liked the graphics of the bombardment of Merreen, but the turning up of the Queen was too expected and anticlimactic. I was really hoping for Grey Worm or Tyrion or someone local to straddle on of the remaining dragons and go to town with the slavers.
I liked the Brotherhood without Banners cut and I though the kings distancing form his mother was very good.
Agree with all this.
I have found this season weak so far, with more disappointing or pointless sequences than great GoT moments. I think they have literally as well as metaphorically lost the plot.
This interesting article proposes why: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/jun/13/game-of-thrones-season-six-is-wasting-all-our-time
Aside from the interesting whittling vs. sculpting metaphor, I found that article largely the same as reading the complaints on the ASOIAF reddit. That is not to say I disagree, it used to be that The Walking Dead that would make puzzling and frustrating decisions, which I would then contrast with Game of Thrones, a show that was almost completely devoid of them. These last two seasons have closed the gap there somewhat, although HBO is still a far, far better network than AMC (as well as the gap in achievement level between their respective source material, which really shouldn't even be an insult to TWD) and it shows. I have found myself wishing for Fargo season 3 (probably my favorite show currently on TV and an excellent watch if you haven't yet seen it) in the midst of the season climax of Game of Thrones, which would have been unthinkable a year or two ago.
I disagree that Riverrun was pointless. Sometimes, scenes are about the characters, rather than affecting the political plot. In fact, I'd argue that the Riverrun plotline was far more valuable than Jaime's entire jaunt off to Dorne; it has singlehandedly revived Jaime's character arc and development/redemption, while Dorne "gifted" us with the worst line of dialogue I have seen on TV in a long time, and I watch The Walking Dead.
Also surprised to see as much angst about the Blackfish among the fanbase as there is. He was rather a minor character, and the difference in his escaping (in book) vs choosing his death (in show) can be traced to a couple important bits of detail that differs from show to book. In the books, Jeyne Westerling is alive and pregnant; Robb's Kingdom is literally still alive, and contained in Riverrun. Also, Blackfish is not at the Red Wedding in the books. OTOH in the show, Jeyne's counterpart and one of the most stupid and puzzling deviations from the books, "Talisa", ::) is butchered at the Red Wedding, and Blackfish is present, and flees. Robb's kingdom is well and truly dead, and his motivations for an honorable death are also a bit more understandable (survivor's guilt).
Now, I'm not saying I think this was a flawlessly executed segment by any means, and I think some of its shortcomings stem from earlier slip-ups (as I outlined above), but overall I don't think it deserves the panning it has received. The Arya plotline conversely....yeah, not much good I can say on that one. :? The director of that episode, Mark Mylod, has directed several of the lowest-rated episodes of the show on IMDB (which are still stupid-high since even meh episodes of GOT have a lot of great elements). Here's hoping the episode tonight brings the magic back somewhat.
"Battle of the Bastards"... Now *that* is a promising title...
Holy fucking hell... That was like horrible! Not like bad but as in very high sacrifices to get something. Some scenes were like from a horror movie.
I still don't quite understand why Sansa never told them about the Vale army on its way. Made even more odd after her big argument with Jon about their lack of manpower.
I agree though, it is a mystery as to why Sansa did not disclose anything about Littlefinger and the knights of the Vale... especially the night before the battle.
Maybe she's hoping he would die.
I really enjoyed the episode 9 interms of direction, photography, all the action scene were masterpieces! However... the whole battle strategy reminded me of a chinese blockbuster i watched a while ago, it's full of clichet, with spearmen moving with perfect coordination in weird formations without any hope to keep cohesion and with the wildling letting them move without objecting... Not even the 300 spartans were so well-trained! And the whole "wall of carcasses" thing is not even remotely reasonable as well, not to mention the perfect timing of the cavalry (which was not communicating, it was indeed a surprise) that came just at the right moment.
Again, i really enjoyed the scenes, but my suspension of disbelief was way gone.
And I dont find the deployment of the giant believable. If he could smash though the castle gate, severely, pierced, as if it was made of tinders, why held up by a shield wal. A kick, and there would be a breach in a fallanx no more than two lancers deep and the wildlings(skirmishers) could do their thing. I suppose the Real World equivalent of a giant is a war elephant. I am not all that familiar with their tactics. Were they not best deployed against unfamiliar cavalry, anyone?
Why have there been so many god damn downers when it comes to Season 6?
Its been a perfectly legit season, what made it any less than all the others? I'm starting to think people are just getting tired of the franchise.
Personally I thought the Battle of the Bastards was awesome.
The pile of corpses may have been a bit excessive, but lets put it like this:
1: when two large bodies of mounted men charge each other and collide, the collission itself would be catastrophic. Those horses would have died/dropped where they met, and there were hundreds of them on a seemingly narrow corridor/close formation, so the space to dump all those corpses is pretty small.
2: I've seen multiple dead horses (Barn fire on a family farm killed 4 animals, 1 was a fully grown stallion) and a dead horse is no small thing, people underestimate how much space corpse takes up, times that by 100-1000 and add alot of dead/injured men into the mix and you have a considerable enough pile that you can't just step over them.
As for the encircling shield wall, yeah, a bit perfect maybe, but not impossible. I thought the direction it came from was more unusual as it snaked around them as opposed to advance from the front.
And the Wildlings not intercepting the wierd wall of spears? Well having only just got over the whole phenonmenon of fighting mounted men, a solid wall of shields and spears might take the momentum out of you and make you a tad dumbstruck if you'd never seen it before so...
Anyway, the key issue with critiquing it is, well, the criticisms are heavily perception based, and there is no 'by the book' way in which things happen. At least not in warfare.
I know I'd still watch it just to find out what happens to them, even if it's shit
That sounds like my commitment to watching The walking Dead lol
The rest was pretty good: I enjoyed Mereen
Despite the many criticisms of various parts of the battle (of which I could make many), I think the way they portrayed the chaos, blood and mud of the melee was very effective. Even if the wall of bodies and certain other elements were somewhat silly, the general effect of HORROR worked very well! It was seriously gritty, dirty, blood-and-sweat sort of fighting.... Not pleasant.
Let's hope episode 10 seals it with an even bigger bang :)
Despite the many criticisms of various parts of the battle (of which I could make many), I think the way they portrayed the chaos, blood and mud of the melee was very effective. Even if the wall of bodies and certain other elements were somewhat silly, the general effect of HORROR worked very well! It was seriously gritty, dirty, blood-and-sweat sort of fighting.... Not pleasant.
Certainly. I thought is was *emotionally* one of the most captivating scenes I have seen in television drama. I thought, quite frankly, it was in many parts horrifying.
The sheer fact that Sansa had warned Jon about what he was facing made it all the worse, which has a lot of predecessors both in drama and history. Irrational of him to proceed but not unprecedented. I just don't quite get why she would not have told him? Could she have become that crass? It would, in a way, make sense...
The smile as she realised she'd caught the Bolton army was another. The death of Ramsay and the way she dealt with it underlined it. She has become a realist at the expense of many of the traits that Jon still clings to. She's sort of on her way to becoming a female Littlefinger.
The one thing I just can't really get over is that they brought little Rickon back (not so little anymore) for this season, gave him two brief scenes, AND NOT A SINGLE LINE OF DIALOGUE!!!
That's a problem to you? I've grown accustomed to it, the off hand dismissal of characters.
One line is all I wanted, even if it was something lame like "you killed my wolf, you bastard!" ;D
Perhaps, but I don't think they would have put themselves in so much peril just to make a trap...
Also, now that I think more about it, are there no scouts in the North anymore? It seems that 10 000 knights were able to just walk up the continent without anyone noticing or being alarmed? o_o
The North is a big place (bigger than the rest of the 7 kingdoms combined i think) with a spare population, and considering just how many Northerners are dead or probably on the sidelines about whose side to support, I doubt anyone would want to get their feet wet and start informing on a 10,000 man army.
Bella Ramsey (!), Lady Lyanna Mormont may be my favorite actress (at least supporting) of the whole series. What a lass!
A lot of characters did some impressive teleporting around Westeros this season, most notably Littlefinger.
But Varys beats them all with this episode!
-Sad to see Margery Tyrell go. Excellent character/actress.
I did not foresee Arya popping up to deal with Walder Frey like that. A rather nice, but a rather cursory weaving in of the Frey pie...
I would place money on John Snow/Baratheon King of the North marrying Daenerys. Creating a royal super couple able to defeat both the Lanisters and the army of White walkers.
He's a Targaryan though, isn't he? Bit much to marry his auntie, surely.
I didn't quite get why Tommen just threw himself out of a window. It would have been much cooler if he would have at least tried to stand up to Cercei.
Not at all. Quite the thing, really.
I think tommens suicide was his stand up to his mother.
He knew more than any of her children how much she cared for them, and he knew she'd done what she did for him, at least in her own mind.
He could stand up to her, imprison her, even execute her, and she wouldn't care because she'd have beaten fate and saved her last child.
So he did all he could to defeat her and finally gain freedom from a system he was never in control of.
BUUUUUT...... For what it's worth, I have no idea how the books themselves are actually going to end. Finding a way to bring his epic story to a close without resorting to dumb good v evil showdowns is going to be ultimate test for GRRM as a writer. I don't know how the hell he's going to do it, we'll just have to wait and see! :)
He was killed by Renly and the Red woman, wasn't he?
I was mainly pointing out he's a Targaryan not a Baratheon. But I don't see it happening except where they fall in love, defeat everything, get married then Bran tells them they're nephew and auntie. And then one kills the other in some kind of sub-Shakespeare tragedy. "Noooooooooooooooooo!"
Curious what will happen to Jaime now that Cersei has done excactly what he was trying to prevent by killing the mad king.
Can't imagine this going well. I think we found the one who will kill her. It would be the last nail in her coffin if he turns against her.
Isn't there something in the witch's prophecy that may describe just that?
I must say, the explanation for the "jetpack Varys" or general "time travel" issues people have been having this season is very simple and straight foward: different storylines are taking place at different times. Even the books do this, otherwise we would have even more of the dreaded "Mereenese knot" and a whole lot more dull travel scenes. I get that it's a bit different than say, a nice 2 hour contained feature film where (assuming it's a competent bit of storytelling and not say, the Star Wars prequels ::) ) it's generally considered a slip up if things aren't explicitly shown, but it does make sense considering the constraints of screen time. They have to consider the overall pacing and arc of the season, while also making sure they don't have all their epic action in on episode and lots of travel and slow burn scenes in another. And even with doing this, we still had some awfully slow episodes this season... lol
So now Westros has the equivalent of a Guy Fawkes night to remember.
Would be a bit more like Guy Fawkes if it was the religious party that tried to blow up the Kings Landing parliament. Oh wait, Kings Landing still doesn't have a parliament. It's a purely aristocratic show.
I have just seen the first 5 minutes this morning. Can't say much about that.
You really didn't like the Battle of the Bastards in the last season? Nor Aryas killing of the Freys? Nor Samwell Tarly curing Jorah Mormont from greyscales? I thought it all great stuff.
No Spoilers please, I've only seen season 1.... ;) ;D
I have just seen the first 5 minutes this morning. Can't say much about that.
You really didn't like the Battle of the Bastards in the last season? Nor Aryas killing of the Freys? Nor Samwell Tarly curing Jorah Mormont from greyscales? I thought it all great stuff.
Arya was good but the battle was predictable along with the killing of Wun Wun in Winterfell. Jorah has proved to be a popular character and curing him was again, predictable.
The books and series (at the start) were good as there was a real element of unpredictability in them. You didn't really now what was going to happen next. As soon as HBO had more of a say in what the story line was going to be it became less enjoyable for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'll still watch it and probably like it I'll just be disappointed that it will follow the standard fantasy tropes.
DVD for me ::)
No Spoilers please, I've only seen season 1.... ;) ;DSame for me ,only ever watched 4 of walking dead I think? Seen all of vikings ,peaky blinders and Narcos and sons of anarchy though lol
Its DVD for me and how ever many hours of my time it will take me to watch it all... lol
So, anyone seen it yet? ;D
It starts a bit slow I thought.
Same for me ,only ever watched 4 of walking dead I think? Seen all of vikings ,peaky blinders and Narcos and sons of anarchy though lol
I did not like how the rescue of Asha Greyjoy was directed/written. Very off hand and unrealistic (if that's a legitimate complaint in a world with zombie dragons).I entirely agree, but that's not a really good argument, IMHO: Yes, there are zombie dragons, but they are consistent with the magic world they're in.
Too far invested now to quit! :)
I enjoyed it. Felt like more of the same. Agree the bit with Sam was one of the highlights.
Bit confused though, because I thought the deal was that this final season had taken two years to make, and was cut down to just six episodes (rather than the usual 10) because each episode was going to be like a magnificent 90 minute feature film in its own right.
And yet the opening episode was just the regular 50 minutes...
Colour me slightly disappointed :(
Well we’ll see if the rest of the season lives up to the hype I guess...
It's a legitimate concern story-wise, H. It felt like it wasn't really earned. I thought the story of Asha's rescue would play out over several episodes. But now she's rescued just like that so they can send Theon off to stand in the background with everybody else in the storyline in the North. I know we laugh about all the people they've killed off, but I'm beginning to think they haven't killed enough off. Especially in the North they have too many characters for the amount of story there is. I'm worried most of them aren't going to get much to do.
Whenever Theon is on the screen I get Lily Allen's "Alfie" playing in my head. Makes it hard for me to take his scenes seriously. :)
Bit confused though, because I thought the deal was that this final season had taken two years to make, and was cut down to just six episodes (rather than the usual 10) because each episode was going to be like a magnificent 90 minute feature film in its own right.First two episodes are normal duration (+-55min), last 4 will be +-80min. Didn't realise it either until I started watching it.
And yet the opening episode was just the regular 50 minutes...
Now, the way little Ned Umber is nailed to the wall of Last Hearth, in the center of a spiral of chopped off arms and legs, what does that mean? Do I remember correctly that the Nightking was created tied to a weirwood the center of such a spiral?They also made fancy patterns in the very first ever episode I think, and certainly one with dead horsies north of the wall (Fist of the First Men?) later. Plus in the cave paintings. Just a way the Children of the Forest and White Walkers like to express themselves I guess.
They also made fancy patterns in the very first ever episode I think, and certainly one with dead horsies north of the wall (Fist of the First Men?) later. Plus in the cave paintings. Just a way the Children of the Forest and White Walkers like to express themselves I guess.
I only do dvd
They also made fancy patterns in the very first ever episode I think, and certainly one with dead horsies north of the wall (Fist of the First Men?) later. Plus in the cave paintings. Just a way the Children of the Forest and White Walkers like to express themselves I guess.The 'Game of Thrones' Night King Spiral Mystery Has Officially Been Solved (https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/04/21/the-game-of-thrones-night-king-spiral-mystery-has-officially-been-solved/#6741a53d2506)
But there is no more need to theorize, and we have arrived at an actual answer for this question. I’m not just talking about a really good fan idea that sounds correct, I’m talking about the guy who wrote the premiere and put the flaming spiral in it explaining outright what it means. Here’s Game of Thrones premiere writer Dave Hill talking to the New York Post when asked the question:
“As we saw with Bran and the Three-Eyed Raven, the spiral pattern was sacred to the Children of the Forest, who created the Night King by sacrificing a captured man in a spiral “henge of stones.” The Night King then adopted the symbol as a sort of blasphemy, like Satan with the upside-down cross.”
No one else was up in the middle of the night to watch? I'll keep quiet then..
... but I'd be surprised if anyone is disappointed by ep2.
SPOILER ALERT...should know this by page 22 of the thread... :D
Would be interested to know if anyone else watched the Brienne knight story...the smile on her face...and thought ...”yup she’s dead meat”.
Will be interesting to look back in 4 episodes time - ep.2 seems to be all about pairing characters up...presumably so one of each pair dies to make the loss greater.
I agree- way more interesting. The White walkers are like a side show. :D
Personally I’ve always felt that the whole white walkers storyline was a red herring from the core tale that GRRM set out to write in the first place, which was a pseudo-medieval Wars of the Roses style dynastic struggle with politics, skullduggery, sex and extreme violence.
Targaryen, Stark, Lannister, Baratheon - all still in play. That’s what the denouement is going to be concerned with. And so much more enthralling than hordes of zombies.
The 'Game of Thrones' Night King Spiral Mystery Has Officially Been Solved (https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/04/21/the-game-of-thrones-night-king-spiral-mystery-has-officially-been-solved/#6741a53d2506)
Targaryen, Stark, Lannister, Baratheon - all still in play. That’s what the denouement is going to be concerned with. And so much more enthralling than hordes of zombies.
Personally I’ve always felt that the whole white walkers storyline was a red herring from the core tale that GRRM set out to write in the first place, which was a pseudo-medieval Wars of the Roses style dynastic struggle with politics, skullduggery, sex and extreme violence.
Targaryen, Stark, Lannister, Baratheon - all still in play. That’s what the denouement is going to be concerned with. And so much more enthralling than hordes of zombies.
To be fair, the very first scene of the very first book (and indeed the opening of episode 1 of the HBO series) started with some unfortunates north of The Wall being hunted down by White Walkers, so I guess it's always been part of the plan.
I am thinking that the young girl in the latest episode who wants to fight is the Waif and has came for Arya.Been good so far and looking forward to the next episode.
Based on the pairings provided by AKULA my guesses for "Who doesn't make it alive to see the final credits?" are:
Gendry... Theon... Greyworm... both Jamie and Brianne
Watched ep2 a couple of times today...just watching now for the third time - am sure there will be those that say “no big battle...BORING...” but in the context of the 18 month wait, ep2 was all about reminding us of the characters we’ve become attached to...before they get brutally slain in the next four episodes.
... it just seems that the denouement is a fudge to bring everything to a neat close, almost like George RRRRR Martin never really knew how it was going to end.... just saying......It is a concern I have...
It is a concern I have...
Was it just me or was the 2nd episode more boring than the 1st?Pretty sure he knows how it ends, just no clue how to get there! He can (and does) take years figuring out how character A with knowledge of X can get to character B in place Y at the same time as character C does Z. The showrunners, meanwhile, are pressed for time and rather less interested in the fine details, so just merge characters A and C, and AC then teleports across the continent whenever the plot desires it. Neither is exactly optimal.
I enjoyed the first couple of series, quite exciting, more exciting than the books (I had to resort to listening to the 2-3 volumes on audio books....) but it just seems that the denouement is a fudge to bring everything to a neat close, almost like George RRRRR Martin never really knew how it was going to end.... just saying......
A bit like the TV series 'Lost'Exactly...
But rarely in GoT do characters get to die the way they want! :)I agree - "Valar Morghulis, valar dohaeris" is probably Martin's mission statement for ASOIAF!
Military Lesson #1: "Time spent on reconnaissance is rarely wasted."
Military Lesson #2: "Military engineering exists to keep your enemy in the killing ground. Kill him while he's delayed by it."
Military Lesson #3: "Don't deploy your army in front of the f&%*ing military engineering."
Little Lyanna Mormont got a very worthy end, I like that
I just finished episode 3. I am sure you will mock me but I was quite anguished through the whole thing.
Akky and others gaming GoT: how do you game the night king now? Every model his army kills comes back to fight on his side - seems kinda impossible to wargame with him on the table now?
I just want to know what poor bastards have to clean up after the battle
Lyanna Mormont stole a big piece of that episode, she is/was a great character. Apparently she was only ever meant to have been in one episode but the actress did such a great job that they kept her in.
I thought it was a little over long too, but glad the night king is gone, he was basically the Westeros Plague with about as much character (which was probably the intention).
I think my first pang of loss was to see the dire wolf Ghost set of with he riders. While the relation between man and beast (with the exception of the dragons) is not a central theme of neither film nor book, I always mourned the dire wolves (only Arya's pooch is still alive, right?).
I was actually very disappointed by this episode. First of all it was waaay to dark I was sitting there squinting at my screen to try and figure out what on earth was going on.
you know the enemies one weakness is fire, why don't you have much more of it? And why is the fire you do have dependant upon someone blundering around in the fog on her dragon..? I mean it is quite standard equipment in any siege that you have oil you pour down on your attackers and set fire to it.
The amount of stupid tactical blunders were inexcusable. Even for at fantasy series with undead and dragons. Why the hell would you place your army in front of all your defenses!?
They really did waste their time building all those trebuchets. When you have the castle you don't want siege weapons, you want anti-siege weapons. That effort would have been better spent on cauldrons, ballistae and other such stuff on the walls.
But that didn't really bother me any, if I'm honest. It's just a talking point.
I'm not quite sure why the Night King was so obsessed with Bran, though. If he had lurked at the back his minions would have easily killed Bran for him and the baddies would have won. He was defeated by his desire to do the deed himself. What does he even gain from Bran's death that he doesn't already have? I'm sure someone can come up with a lore reason, but it seems to me that it is entirely for the plot's sake.
I was sort of half expecting Bran to flaunt some greenseer superpower
I've only *just* realised that when Bran wargs into the crows, he does so to lure the Night King to his location.
I just finished episode 3. I am sure you will mock me but I was quite anguished through the whole thing. I don't think I've been this affected by a film/series since the first installment of Lord of the Rings.
I need to sleep on it before I can comment the plot, I feel. *If* I can sleep. Phew...
EDIT: Little Lyanna Mormont got a very worthy end, I like that.
(https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/2820911/size/gn-gift_guide_variable_c.jpg)
On tactics - yeah, I see the complaints. BUT......
.... in the key respect their tactics were spot on given the nature of the enemy. Lure the NK into the godswood, and kill him. Doesn't matter what else you do, because if you don't do that you're going to lose. (They needed some luck for this, but who doesn't in battle?)But didn they succeed in luring the Night King to Bran, given that the wights had basically sclaughtered their way through the forces before he got to Bran? Dany+Jon+dragons were somewhat supposed to jump him once the time came, but Arya was in no way planned. A planned ambush with dragonglass arrows or every person available with valyrian steel weaponry. This was, what, dumb luck? Fate? Not even part of a prophecy, which I found to be the most confusing part (as the prophecies did make it into the show). Arya was never the Prince(ss) who was Promised, or Azor Ahai. The fact that this basically means the whole Long Night invasion of the dead started and ended in the scope of one hour is anticlimactic to say the least.
Not sure what tactics will do against an army that runs at you at full speed, doesn't care for its own safety, literally flows over your lines in waves of troops, puts out a flaming barrier with their own bodies and then uses their bodies to form a ramp to attack the walls of the castle.A suicidal charge against an enemy able to raise the dead seems the worst tactic imaginable. Setting up a (loose) defensive line outside of the castle walls not much better. Maybe sally out if they surround and attempt to starve you, but if they just blindly attack, delay with obstacles and by defending the walls while raining down all the dragonglass arrows, artillery and oil you can muster to thin the numbers. They could hardly have done a worse job, unless they just put Bran outside the castle with no defenders whatsoever (not that Bran appears to have any use whatsoever).
Ultimately it is a TV show and they aim for entertainment and not tactical realism ;) I don't know that I would have liked it if the battle lasted past the end of the episode in any case.
Continuing the discussion though, I actually don't think that anything they did would work against a horde of zombies. I also don't know that the battle would last more than a day despite any better tactics. They created ramps of bodies for goodness sake! I think that hordes of zombies, especially fast ones with weapons, are dramatically under-estimated as a threat. Especially when there is a guy that can resurrect the entire army at the drop of a hat.
The story seemed to be heading in the direction that Bran was going to be something or do something when the Wight King found him. AND why did he want him in the first place?!?They mentioned in the previous episode that the White Walkers want to wipe out "the memory of the world". A memory that so far has yet to produce anything of much note (aside from "use me as bait", which hardly worked, given that the dead slaughtered their way through Winterfel before they finally got to Bran). Why they attack now, after all these centuries (and invaded south, rather than attacking in force when the former Three Eyed Raven had been hanging out north of the wall for considerable time), and whey they were created in the first place, or why exactly they want to spread death and memory loss.. guess we won't know now they're gone.
Coenus S: hadn't thought about the prophecies, that is super interesting. I wonder if GoT prophecies aren't literal (so unlike e.g. LotR ones). So Arya doesn't fit the description of Azor Ahai, but she still *is* the person that the prophecy is about - it is just that the prophecy has a few fictional elements in it reflecting the biases of the religion it belongs to. Sorta fits with religion in GoT, do you think? The different religions are human creations, but they have a common root in some elemental forces at work in that world. So they're not literally true, but have some truth in them.For all the talk of A Song and Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones subverting the fantasy tropes, it shouldn't be forgotten this is not always the case. Stone dragon eggs? Of course they hatched after all. Jon being stabbed? Sure he'd come back.
Not sure what tactics will do against an army that runs at you at full speed, doesn't care for its own safety, literally flows over your lines in waves of troops, puts out a flaming barrier with their own bodies and then uses their bodies to form a ramp to attack the walls of the castle.
To be frank my cat would have a better plan than the one used by Jon and the crew...
As it turned out Arya was the Captain marvel of the plot. Guess that works but it was less of a surprise.
The Golden Company turning up is interesting given it has a very different direction in A Dance with Dragons.
Lordy...
So what's the rest ofya's verdict of episode 4?
Lordy...
So what's the rest ofya's verdict of episode 4?
It’s still great - looks great, great characters, great lines, great overall story - but the glaring plot conveniences, teleporting, ridiculous non-tactics, and general preposterousness of how events unfold are getting increasingly silly, and feel at odds with the kind of gritty believability (for a fantasy story) of the first few seasons.
So - still enjoying the ride, but despite myself, getting increasingly disenchanted with all the short cuts and daft, illogical occurrences... ::)
Oh..and my bet.....Sansa on the throne....or it gets destroyed so there is no throne and the north wields the power under Sansa, till everyone gets p*ssed off with her and...so it continues. No happy ending. lol
SPOILERS!!!
I enjoyed it. More skullduggery and politics, with some good dialogue. ‘She’s hateful - and so am I’. Nice.
But really, the whole teleportation thing is in full flood again - one minute the half drowned survivors of the Euron Greyjoy’s ‘ambush’ are hauling themselves ashore on a beach near King’s Landing. Next scene they’re all reunited and dry in council back at Dragonstone like nothing’s happened...
SPOILERS!!!
the whole teleportation thing is in full flood again - one minute the half drowned survivors of the Euron Greyjoy’s ‘ambush’ are hauling themselves ashore on a beach near King’s Landing. Next scene they’re all reunited and dry in council back at Dragonstone like nothing’s happened...
SPOILERS!!!
I enjoyed it. More skullduggery and politics, with some good dialogue. ‘She’s hateful - and so am I’. Nice.
But really, the whole teleportation thing is in full flood again - one minute the half drowned survivors of the Euron Greyjoy’s ‘ambush’ are hauling themselves ashore on a beach near King’s Landing. Next scene they’re all reunited and dry in council back at Dragonstone like nothing’s happened...
And honestly - what is the point of dragons if they are that easy to kill? Doesn’t it just undermine the entire point of the story?
And again, the whole military tactics thing has just been fried on the altar of storytelling expediency. So Dany would ride her dragon straight towards Euron’s ships and into the teeth of his giant, dragon-killing crossbows, but wouldn’t fly around behind them with her air superior manouverability, and unleash dragon fire on the whole fleet?
I appreciate the story needs to be served, but it surely needs to cling onto some kind of internal logic, otherwise it just becomes nonsensical.
It’s still great - looks great, great characters, great lines, great overall story - but the glaring plot conveniences, teleporting, ridiculous non-tactics, and general preposterousness of how events unfold are getting increasingly silly, and feel at odds with the kind of gritty believability (for a fantasy story) of the first few seasons.
So - still enjoying the ride, but despite myself, getting increasingly disenchanted with all the short cuts and daft, illogical occurrences... ::)
Is thought the ambush took place before Dragonstone? Will have to watch again to check, but they were supposed to be sailing there before linking up with Jon at Kings Landing.
Anyway, it’s pointless really moaning about it I accept. You just have to take it at face value, enjoy the ride and the things which are great about it
Anyway, it’s pointless really moaning about it I accept. You just have to take it at face value, enjoy the ride and the things which are great about it, and ignore the fact that they’ve clearly given up on any sense of internal logic when it comes to where people and armies are, how they got there, and behaving in any ways that make logical sense when they do get there.
Unfortunately they went beyond the point where I can suspend my disbelief. :(
I don't understand why is it so hard to write the show in a way that is logical and internally consistent.
You’re probably right. I thought they were heading to KL, but it may be they were ambushed outside Dragonstone. Even so, that just opens up more plot holes. Like how did Euron teleport with an entire fleet from KL and get into position unseen just outside the enemy stronghold? And when we last see Tyrion apparently drowning at sea, Grey Worm and a few bedraggled survivors hauling themselves ashore on an isolated beach, and who knows what happened to Varys, with every one of their ships sunk - yet suddenly they are all warm and dry and having a conference back in Dragonstone and no time has elapsed... and Euron didn’t try to finish off the survivors?Varys was in the background with the others on the beach...
Anyway, it’s pointless really moaning about it I accept. You just have to take it at face value, enjoy the ride and the things which are great about it, and ignore the fact that they’ve clearly given up on any sense of internal logic when it comes to where people and armies are, how they got there, and behaving in any ways that make logical sense when they do get there.
::)
Out of interest what finally tipped you over the edge?
The 800 foot high wall of ice, the army of undead, the dragons, the seeming messing travel time/distances, or the fact that Winterfell has a Starbucks?
;) :D
Whilst not a GOT fan (Joe Abercrombie is more my thing),I do enjoy this thread, it's the running synopsis ,reading events second hand,your comments the primary source; very amusing.
Not sure I agree about the Dragon, he was clearly already wounded following the battle and a strong theme of GoT is everyone can die really easily. The point made by Sansa was rammed home as he took the plunge...
Not sure they were easy to kill either - the Night King was pretty tough with his javelins (though he had a big weakness and the standard bad guy weakness of arrogance leading to stupidity etc) and the second do go was severely weaken.
And I loved the shock value of it.
Something tells me neither Ayra or The Hound Will survive, pity I'd have loved a spin off film or series about those two....
I can accept magic and dragons and big icewalls if it is established as part of the word the writer is building. What I cannot stand is stupidity for the shake of drama, inconsistent rules of how the world works, characters acting in ways which are out of character just to further the plot or to fit the current narrative theme.
The internet has gone crazy, declaring GoT ruined, lumping it in with Star Wars, Star Trek and Doctor Who as the latest in a line of destroyed franchises.
I wonder if the show runners are still following the outline given them by Mr. Martin, or if they have said "fuck that shit," chucked it in the bin and gone entirely off-piste? Would be interesting to know.
The internet has gone crazy, declaring GoT ruined, lumping it in with Star Wars, Star Trek and Doctor Who as the latest in a line of destroyed franchises. I'm not really there yet, but I can see where they are coming from in some ways. It's definitely not as good as it used to be. I watched some old clips with Charles Dance earlier, and found myself thinking "I miss those days."
It’s becoming politicised? Dragons and zombies? Hilarious.
On the left they are saying that the massacre of the Dothraki is a metaphor about immigration, and that it is "problematic" that these outsiders of colour all got wiped out, and that makes the show somehow pro-Trump or something.
I wonder if the show runners are still following the outline given them by Mr. Martin, or if they have said "fuck that shit," chucked it in the bin and gone entirely off-piste? Would be interesting to know.
Deadwood is making a comeback! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0WrXmhvXTA
If teleportation, invisibility and missiles with tracking devices had been introduced in the series as an existining type of magic, things would be fine(ish), but while the dragons and zombies fit in, Euron's ship ambush with perfectly aimed bolts does not.
Deadwood is making a comeback! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0WrXmhvXTA
The internet has gone crazy, declaring GoT ruined, lumping it in with Star Wars, Star Trek and Doctor Who as the latest in a line of destroyed franchises. I'm not really there yet, but I can see where they are coming from in some ways. It's definitely not as good as it used to be. I watched some old clips with Charles Dance earlier, and found myself thinking "I miss those days."
It’s becoming politicised? Dragons and zombies? Hilarious.
I did see something in one paper yesterday claiming that the series was discriminatory in some way because none of the characters ‘of colour’ lasted (following the demise of Missandei). But seeing as this was substantiated by claiming Oberyn Martell (played by a hispanic American actor), as a person of colour, and seeing as pretty much every significant character has died - or will do shortly - irrespective of ethnic origin, I took this with a pinch of salt.
Bonkers that people will seek to find some sort of political import or advantage in something as entertaining yet essentially silly as an escapist sword and sorcery yarn. ::)
Well..............Episode 5 was pretty damn intense. :o
Yes, I enjoyed it too. Quite a few main character deaths that I hadn't expected this episode but the last. (unless the night king comes back and raises them all again... plot twist? lol )
Have to say, I really enjoyed that! No idea how it is going to end.
So the latest Targaryen monarch proved to be just as mad in the head as the worst of her forebears.
I really get the feeling they don't want us to be on Daenerys' side any more. There is hardly a shot when she isn't grimacing like a mad woman or has a thousand-yard-stare.
I have some mild gripes, but on the whole I thought the episode a good one.
I thought it ruddy good. Quite ’The Bunker’.... And a whole lot of other tropes. Am I tve only one who thinks they are letting the directors roam quite wild lately?
By the way: Arya will kill Danaerys, and possibly Cercei, she and Jamie are not dead. Varys has ade sure Westros knows Jon is the trueborn king.
Not only has Dany gone full Targaryen, but Greyworm had the blood lust as well...(understandably signposted after Missandei’s execution)...did you note the look on his face when Jon tried to stop the slaughter? Will be interesting to see whether his mood has changed after the destruction of Kings Landing...if not, am half expecting him to go for Jon.Yeah, thought that was a great subtle bit!
The dragons are useful only when the plot demands it and those scorpions are useless when the plot demands it.
So why didn’t this week’s Daenerys+dragon do that to the Iron Fleet last week, since it managed to do it so completely effortlessly this week? Stupid and irritating.
So why didn’t this week’s Daenerys+dragon do that to the Iron Fleet last week, since it managed to do it so completely effortlessly this week?
Now we really know why the night king attacked in the dark!You're over thinking it...
Have D&D forgotten that Winter is Here? ...... The Night King had nothing to do with the season, AFAIK.
The Golden Company was a bit disappointing I must admit. Given that they were supposed to be 20,000 strong, they could have done with some CGI multiplication, per the Unsullied in previous episodes.
I don’t recall their appearance from the novels, but I rather liked their outfits in this. Kind of Byzantine, which I think works in the context of Essos as against Westeros.
The main problem was that there only appeared to be a few dozen of them, rather than the promised 20,000. They deployed in front of the city (again!) And they did absolutely nothing. lol
Totally agree on LH's acting! Hadn't really realised how subtly good she is. Here's a more positive spin on the dragon stuff: Daenerys didn't need/think about tactics before, convinced of her invulnerable dragons; now she knew she needed to change her angle of attack. So she did - steep dive rather than almost horizontal charge. And it worked! I also wondered about the refuelling though - I'll give you that.
But yeah, fantastic spectacle, and as you say that is where the budget went. Now we really know why the night king attacked in the dark!
I read an interview the other day (will see if I can dig it out) where GRRM hinted that the weather cycle wasn’t natural (either the Night King or something else). It was noticeable that the blizzard followed the NK, and the storm broke after he was killed.
I agree, I liked the look of them, although I don’t fancy having to paint loads of those shields :D
Could definitely have done with a few more wide shots of them to build the tension (and convey the scale), but there was more than a few dozen...
(https://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/AKULADEEP/E0C1F3F3-0CF3-403D-BD96-E7C140984C31_zpso8ztzpdm.png)
Interesting that there are a few holes in the line...lack of discipline compared to the Unsullied, or are these the ones that Euron killed on the voyage over... ;)
There was a scene later with Tyrion walking through the shattered gates where there were a whole bunch of Golden Company running away from the city, so I took it as the rest broke left and right ...away from the breach, and the charging Targaryen/Northern forces.
It’s becoming politicised? Dragons and zombies? Hilarious.
Regarding the Golden Company, they were used simply to show the power of the dragon - I liked it. It reminded me of the way George Lucas used the sail barge in RotJ - after it taking weeks of worker hours to construct he just blew it up... Just because something is beautiful doesn't mean it lasts forever, and because of that it has more impact.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/e8/79/d6e8792de06698dd6e3a57b0a8e2225f.jpg)
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9f59bd08bcef24145329ccc4219f261a)
Are you serious?!? What impact? It was just CGI on CGI action and it could've been any mercenary company or rows of potted plants. If I'm not mistaken, the dive bombing run on the ships was reused footage from the Mereen battle.
If I'm not mistaken, the dive bombing run on the ships was reused footage from the Mereen battle.
As for TV entertainment, I think it is safe to say the show is sans pareil.
You are mistaken.So what? I get it, you're a show fan, so reasonable criticisms are simply dismissed...
See this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ9QQMXTftY&t=72s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ9QQMXTftY&t=72s)
..which I fond jaw-droppingly impressive. The built 17 streets in the backlot of the studio and a wall of containers to keep the press out.
This "how we did it" confirms that there really is no substitute for live action at close quatrers. The did try it a lot in The Hobbit, i suspect that is why it feels so much more artificial than the LotR flick.
I seriously recommend all fans and cineasts to watch that Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 5 "Game Revealed" from HBO. I got as much of a kick out of it as I did from the broadcassted episode.
I also recommeend all those dissappointed in the plot choices of David Benioff and D.B. Weiss to take a gander at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W8j6wOvxuo&t=311s
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W8j6wOvxuo&t=311s), Game of Thrones | Season 8 Episode 5 | Inside the Episode. I am not satisified with all turns of events myself, but I respect the process they are going through to keep tying everything together. All in all I think they have done a good job. As for TV entertainment, I think it is safe to say the show is sans pareil.
Sorry, but you are mistaken, the Mereen battle had different ship designs, the sky was crisscrossed with flaming missiles, and Daenerys wore a different outfit.I wasn't referring to the close ups or the CGI arrows...
(Edit) ah, Hammers beat me to it.... lol
It really takes some acting to make me (and apparently many others) to hate Cersei as much as I do.If you think staring down, looking like you're constipated or disappointed, in almost every scene, throughout the series constitutes good acting... lol
The Wire
The Golden Company was a bit disappointing I must admit. Given that they were supposed to be 20,000 strong, they could have done with some CGI multiplication, per the Unsullied in previous episodes.Golden Company (https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Golden_Company)
I don’t recall their appearance from the novels, but I rather liked their outfits in this. Kind of Byzantine, which I think works in the context of Essos as against Westeros.
The main problem was that there only appeared to be a few dozen of them, rather than the promised 20,000. They deployed in front of the city (again!) And they did absolutely nothing. lol
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/may/15/a-song-of-ice-and-ire-how-game-of-thrones-enraged-its-audience
The Wire, Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, Sons of Anarchy, Godless, Deadwood, Battlestar Galactica... Humm... I beg to difer. ;)
So what? I get it, you're a show fan, so reasonable criticisms are simply dismissed...
I read an interview the other day (will see if I can dig it out) where GRRM hinted that the weather cycle wasn’t natural (either the Night King or something else). It was noticeable that the blizzard followed the NK, and the storm broke after he was killed.
Someone asked why the seasons are so messed up. Martin said he couldn't give an answer necause that would be telling! He did say that there would eventually be an answer in one of the books, and the answer would be a fantasy (as opposed to a science fiction/science based) answer.
My longest-standing complaint about the show is that its warfare has got steadily less medieval. I lament the vanishing of all the glorious full helms that were in evidence at the start of the show (think Brienne, the Hound, etc.).Don't forget the lack of color in a pseudo-medieval setting in contrast with the battle scene from Knights of the Round Table(1953): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9X6dxQ3nIk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9X6dxQ3nIk).
The most ridiculous aspects of the show's approach to warfare are Martin's fault, I think: the bowless invincibility of the Dothraki (just why are these light cavalry so effective?) and the very existence of the Unsullied: child eunuchs would not grow up to be formidable soldiers, let alone look the real soldiers they use as extras!
But - as with the Long Night - I was gripped throughout and am very much looking forward to the conclusion.
Ha, "injury-time character development", I like that. :)
If I'm not mistaken, the dive bombing run on the ships was reused footage from the Mereen battle.
Sorry, but you are mistaken, the Mereen battle had different ship designs, the sky was crisscrossed with flaming missiles, and Daenerys wore a different outfit.
(Edit) ah, Hammers beat me to it.... lol
I wasn't referring to the close ups or the CGI arrows...
So what? I get it, you're a show fan, so reasonable criticisms are simply dismissed...
Don't forget the lack of color in a pseudo-medieval setting in contrast with the battle scene from Knights of the Round Table(1953): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9X6dxQ3nIk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9X6dxQ3nIk).
Martin did set up the battles, but D&D ignored the details, such as pikemen at Blackwater. The Dothraki are supposed to be mounted bowmen and we saw it last season.
https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/122846-wouldnt-the-unsullied-be-weak-wout-testicles-to-produce-testosterone/
I don't see the Unsullied as formidable, especially as depicted on TV: they're good in organized groups, but fail as individuals, like in the street fights in Mereen against the insurgents.
I’m not sure why you are taking this tone in what has otherwise been a very civil discussion....
Indeed. It’s a friendly, civil discussion amongst fellow enthusiasts. If you’ve got some aggression to get out of your system, do it elsewhere. This isn’t that kind of forum.I don't know why you couldn't bring this up via PM. :-I
I still reckon in the books, if it comes to Dany invading Westeros with a dothraki horde, she'll suddenly realise what an awful idea it is. Either they will simply refuse to cross the sea, or they will but prove completely ineffective in the siege warfare that taking Westeros would probably require.When I first saw that scene with the armada of ships ferrying troops, I assumed Dornish sailors, but then I noticed Dothraki and wondered: how much time had lapsed? The Dothraki fear crossing the narrowest part of the Narrow Sea and possibly island hopping via Stepstones, yet here they are manning ships. ??? Essos has more cities than Westeros, but simply pillaging or the threat of hinterlands might be why the Dothraki earned such a reputation for savagery. The stand of Unsullied proved how mounted raiders are ineffective vs infantry in formation, even a thin red line of Lannister spearmen in the Battle of the Goldroad.
I gotta say, just focusing on the military side of GoT, the show really irritates me. All the military have what I call 'stormtrooper syndrome' - they are all depicted as faceless automatons.I think it might be cheaper to outfit everyone identically and the producers/prop department assuming the viewer being unable to differentiate between Tyrell, Baratheon and Lannister soldiers, though this was ignored in the Battle of the Bastards, lol aside from the Bolton pikemen and pavisiers.
This works for the Unsullied of course.
But both the Tyrell troops back in season 6 (I think?) and the Lannister troops who take Riverrun (also season 6?) are portrayed as all wearing identical uniforms, marching in perfect lockstep. It just looks silly I think, and nothing like the more historical vision I had in my head when reading the books. Of course, this is just personal taste. But I would much prefer to see all the armies as being much less disciplined, and varied in their armour and weaponry, with heraldry of individual knights and lords in evidence.
(at least the Tyrell troops had spears and shields - the Lannister troops seemed to be equipped with just swords!)
And then we briefly got the Golden Company... who apparently were another host of stormtroopers / clones. I'd much preferred them as say, heavy cavalry... In the books they are supposed to feature a lot of Westerosi exiles, or descendants of those who fought (and died) for Daemon Blackfyre in the Blackfyre rebellions..... Many of whom have (dubious) claims to lands and estates in Westeros. Well that's probably just among the leadership and officers... But I always imagined them as having a more Westerosi style of fighting rather than the other more exotic / eastern mercenary companies.
Again though this is just personal preference - if the show is intentionally trying to distance itself from medieval Europe aesthetically (and perhaps a more classical vision of warfare).... Then fair enough :)
Yes! Older films seemed to be a lot better at depicting individual heraldry (a notable failure of Braveheart)I don't seem to hate Braveheart now as I did years ago...
True - but am I not right in thinking that both books and show put a lot of emphasis on their charge and arakhs? It's been a long while since I read the books, though.Until the Battle of the Goldroad, I would've said the Dothraki in the TV show aren't the same as in the books, but I suppose it doesn't matter anymore, as the series is about to end. Ser Jorah mentions that their bows have longer range than Westorosi ones - probably composite - and they're better riders, but I don't recall the latter in the show - was there ever a cavalry battle?
They're touted as "the best infantry in the world", no?Depends on what's meant by "best" and how much of this has to do with the sales pitch...
There's a lot of specious reasoning on that thread, and a huge underestimation of the role of strength. It's strength that makes fighters quick and agile; I agree with the poster there who said that DEX and STR aren't as separate as RPGs would have us believe.Strength without skill is useless and based on their training enforcing discipline, Unsullied group tactics make up for their lack of strength and only 1/3 of the boys survive to adulthood. Also, they imbibe the wine of courage, numbing their pain senses and maybe testosterone is one of the secret ingredients. Adrenal glands produce small amounts of testosterone and there are female soldiers on the frontlines. Phalanxes aren't rugby scrums: othismos debate.
Eunuchs lose muscle mass rapidly, even when castrated as adults. They also have frail bones and tend to suffer from scoliosis and osteoporosis eventually. But the Unsullied are castrated when very young - so they wouldn't develop adult mass and strength in the first place. They'd be essentially overgrown children.
The books handwave this with "training". But eunuchs wouldn't respond nearly so well to training as normal men, and they'd be more vulnerable to overtraining and exhaustion. So they'd be starting from a position of severe weakness and then "running to stand still" in avoiding muscle loss, fat gain and gynaecomastia.
So, basically, your uncastrated conscripts who do a bit of training would be getting stronger (and would be heavier, stronger and more aggressive to start with) while your Unsullied would be trying to stave off muscle loss, flab and injuries.
To make matters worse, the Unsullied fight in a phalanx-type formation. Imagine a giant rugby scrum with normal forwards on one side and a bunch of flabby kids who've never undergone puberty on the other ... ouch!
But what GoT can do is sustained mood. I thought the echoes of the likes of the sack of Magdeburg, not to mention Dresden and Hiroshima, were chillingly well done. It looks like there'll be more of that next week.
Her change was dramatic, but then again I wasn't convinced by Anakin in SW either.
It is still by far the best mainstream telly around at the moment.
Exaktly! GRR Martin again and again says borrows and steals from history, he even says it is his process. of course the scriptwriters have done the same. I very much think the carpet bombing of Kings Landing is supposed toevoke memories of vengeful bomb raids and artillery barrages as those of the British at Dresden, the German Blitz and the Soviets at the end of WWII (just to name a few).
But that's the problem: it doesn't work as such. Dresden, Hiroshima, Tokyo, Berlin, Coventry... all of the were ruthless political/strategic decissions. They weren't product of a childish tantrum, but planned actions of strategic terrorism. They were used to communicate an idea: you are powerless against us and either unconditionally surrender and submit yourself to our mercy or you will be wiped out. Even when the war ended, violence by the victors was focused, planned, not indiscriminated. In GoT is the action of a character that fits into the "scorned, mad woman" literary trope. That's what makes it so out of character. Daenerys has proved before that she can be ruthless, but always rationally, politicaly cruel... but now, out of the blue, she becomes a ravaging harpy, bent on destruction, for no other reason that "she is mad".
If the writers wanted to evoke Dresden or Tokyo, they should have shown the whole scene as a deliberate action taken by the "good guys" after rationalising the need to destroy innocent civilians in order to topple a murderous regime, not as a temper tantrum. Means justify ends is more compelling as plot device than "look! I am mad!".
I dont't agree. She clearly says that if she can't be loved whe will be feared and she uses that to justify her ignoring the bells, to really drive her supremacy home. To me, that works.
She clearly says that if she can't be loved whe will be feared and she uses that to justify her ignoring the bells, to really drive her supremacy home. To me, that works.
That's not how the scene is built. It is clear that it is a spur of the moment decision, not meditated. It isn't planned. She behaves like a disorganized psychopath. She is the Manson family, not Hannibal Lecter.
There is nothing political in her actions.
Just a thought, but I've seen a lot of "clues" within the series turned into red herrings or getting nowhere altogether. Hence the setup of the burning of King's Landing was the Dragon Queen feeling robbed of her victory by Jon and his troops on the ground. Unfortunately it wasn't continued as such – e.g. by a more significant lack of Targaryen troops, Lannister soldiers readily surrendering to Jon, and citizens welcoming him as their saviour from Daenerys' wrath, all contributing to the queen's perception of betrayal.This make perfect sense and explains why Daenarys ennobled Gendry and why she saved Mirri Maz Duur. She was expecting another Mereen, the scene itself being a copy of El Cid at Valencia, and when she didn't get the expected reaction, everyone and everything was committed to the flames. A bit more effort with the camera and better facial expressions from Clarke, that silent scene could've shown this, but it failed on several levels. The whole comparison with Dresden and WWII fire bombings is pretentious prattling - wonder how D&D will handle their Star Wars and ACW series. :-I
Perhaps this whole subplot was one of the "bare bones" provided by GRRM, which the writers were supposed to flesh out themselves. It's such a pity D&D have proven their inabilities at character-driven storytelling over the last couple of seasons. :?
Another case in point: For a very short moment I expected Varys to reveal yet another heir to the Iron Throne in his letter. (Based on the books my guess would've been Tyrion as bastard of Aerys II, so he comes out as the legitimate ruler of the South while his 'wife' and last remaining intellectual equal Sansa would declare Northern independence…) But I'm now rather frustrated by the series and don't expect anything meaningful from it. Here's hope GRRM will continue at some point (or nominate a 'successor') to wrap up the story in a more orderly fashion.I never expected this theory to pan out...
Here's hope GRRM will continue at some point (or nominate a 'successor') to wrap up the story in a more orderly fashion.
Expecting an orderly wrap up is a bit much to hope for. In all the things I have read by Martin there has never been a happy ending. There's just an ending.
That's not how the scene is built. It is clear that it is a spur of the moment decision, not meditated. It isn't planned. She behaves like a disorganized psychopath. She is the Manson family, not Hannibal Lecter.
There is nothing political in her actions.
Expecting an orderly wrap up is a bit much to hope for. In all the things I have read by Martin there has never been a happy ending. There's just an ending.
Expecting an orderly wrap up is a bit much to hope for. In all the things I have read by Martin there has never been a happy ending. There's just an ending.
Burn them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
I did notice that but it appeared to be stored on upper floors of buildings....so don't know what the point of that was as when Cersei blew up the city before she stored it all underground, for maximum damage (confined explosions go upwards!). Also, why didn't they load those javelins with some sorta of wildfire device....that would have been fun to watch.
why doesn't Snow (and Queen Dany) have a personal guard? Cersei has one...so doesn't every ruler with sense. Heck, the tyrant Maduro down in Venezuela has it own personal bodyguard. Hitler had the SS, Alexander the Companions, Napoleon the Old Guard, etc. GoT has been a fun show to watch but whomever is the military advisor/consultant clearly doesn't have a clue about the subject! Where is Dale Dye when you need him! ;)
2) In the show, during Ser Jorah's duel with Qotho, the latter couldn't penetrate the former's armor with his arakh, though later the Dothraki have no issue slaying armored Lannister soldiers. Maybe it's safety related: in Sharpe's Waterloo, French cuirassiers were killed after getting their breastplates smacked with swords.Oh yes, armour actually being functional, rather than decorative. I wish more shows would illustrate that, or in this case, remember it. No wonder the main characters don't bother wearing helmets - armour is clearly useless anyway.
Numerous times in the show she has wanted to take the extreme and violent course of action but been talked out of it by, variously, Jorah, Tyrion, Varys and Jon. Feeling betrayed by all her advisors, with 2 of her 'children' and her two closest confidants dead I can see her taking the action she's wanted all along. She's her father's daughter.The father she wasn't raised by, a man she never knew? Just inescapable genetics than ey? That's a bit bleak.
Speaking of which, why doesn't Snow (and Queen Dany) have a personal guard? Cersei has one...so doesn't every ruler with sense. Heck, the tyrant Maduro down in Venezuela has it own personal bodyguard. Hitler had the SS, Alexander the Companions, Napoleon the Old Guard, etc. GoT has been a fun show to watch but whomever is the military advisor/consultant clearly doesn't have a clue about the subject! Where is Dale Dye when you need him! ;)Jon had a big, lovely, loyal dog at some point.. until they decided dragons and countless exploding buildings were more important things to spend the CGI budget on. Poor Ghost. At least he's safe up North with Tormund now, no doubt getting a nice saucer of giant's milk each morning.
I feel the buildup to Mad Queen Dany was insufficient and very sudden, but mostly problematic in the execution. No shots or scenes of the peasants showing hate towards her or jeering etc, and rather than going to the Red Keep first and then getting carried away, she just strafes streets full of civilians block by block. Dany is tempermental and has the Targ fire&blood attitude in her, but it was a bit too 0-100 for me and seemed like abject cruel murder rather than "sorry, you're in my way and I'm getting my way!"
I've been pretty disappointed in this season, though I feel like a lot of the complaints are rather nitpicky. I do think the way the cast has reacted to this season says something about how they decided to resolve/ignore character arcs - I think Emilia, Pilou, Kit, Peter, Gwendolyn, Nicholaj, Lena, Conleth, Nathalie, and Jakob have all voiced some displeasure/confusion/concern regarding their characters or overall plot choices.
For so many reasons this season was always going to be rushed. From the book not being finished and even Martin not necessarily knowing how he wanted it to end. He's well known to be a far from pacey writer, there was always going to be the risk that the TV show overtook his books. Then you have the actors. Many started out as relative unknowns, or actors/actresses who's careers had quietened etc. Since the first series several have risen to the level of movie stars. This means that their availability becomes reduced and more expensive. Shooting a longer series therefore may have a much more difficult task in terms of getting people committed to shooting and in terms of expense. As with many TV series, often they end before their desired finish. As a result the last season often feels a bit 'choppy'.GRRM wanted about 10 seasons. HBO was happy to have this last season be 10 episodes. It's purely the showrunners who decided against either.
So far I haven't seen any drastic alterations.Dorne? Azor Ahai, Nissa Nissa and Lightbringer? The prince that was promised? Valonquar? Aegon Targaryen/Blackfyre? Starks being able to warg? Lady Stoneheart? Horn of Winter? Euron's Dragonbinder?
GRRM wanted about 10 seasons. HBO was happy to have this last season be 10 episodes. It's purely the showrunners who decided against either.
Dorne? Azor Ahai, Nissa Nissa and Lightbringer? The prince that was promised? Valonquar? Aegon Targaryen/Blackfyre? Starks being able to warg? Lady Stoneheart? Horn of Winter? Euron's Dragonbinder?You misunderstand me. I meant none of the TV series characters have drastically changed this season - at least not in ways that shouldn't have been expected. I wasn't comparing to the books.
I'm with Akula. I actually think people are looking at this in too much isolation and with too much simplicity.
She threatened to do this in the last episode. We'd already had a discussion about it with other characters. Tyrion feared it but didn't want to believe she was capable of it, at the very least he understood that she was close to snapping point hence his threats and desperation in the attempted negotiations. Jon was more or less the same. Varys believed she could, and indeed, would do it and warned Tyrion of such and suggested Jon as being more level headed.
I also think it ignores something else going on. Another play for the throne. Daenerys wants to be wanted by the people as much as Jon is. She hasn't the time, the ability or the charisma to win them over the way he has done. So she can't be more popular than Jon. What better, then, to make Jon less popular? To burn the city he is in theory leading the attack against. Drag his name down rather than bring hers up. He was part of the slaughter of Kings Landing. Jon the fair did nothing to protect the innocents. Will they be so ready to back him now he has the same blood on his hands, of those innocents?
Strength without skill is useless and based on their training enforcing discipline, Unsullied group tactics make up for their lack of strength and only 1/3 of the boys survive to adulthood.
Also, they imbibe the wine of courage, numbing their pain senses and maybe testosterone is one of the secret ingredients. Adrenal glands produce small amounts of testosterone and there are female soldiers on the frontlines. Phalanxes aren't rugby scrums: othismos debate.
Game Of Thrones Season 8 Is A Disappointment - Here's How We'd Fix It (https://screenrant.com/game-thrones-season-8-disappointment-fix/#leave-comment)...
I think I'm right in saying that a typical woman would produce more testosterone than a typical prepubertal castrate; both have adrenal glands, but women also get testosterone from their ovaries.
What did you all think of 'Cleganebowl'?
It seems after killing him off, they brought back The Hound a few seasons later as he was a popular character, and everyone wanted to see him fight his brother. Ok, fair enough, can't complain too much.
What I thought was weak writing was how in season 6 he pretty much just decided to go south and kill his brother for no apparent reason other than fan service. But I'm not gonna make a point of complaining about it.
Clegane's brother is responsible for his burn, right? I always assumed that was motive enough to kill him.
Yeah, but why does Sandor wait all his adult life before deciding to go kill him?I agree that is odd, but the sister backstory would just make this even more puzzling, as he has even more reason to do it sooner.
lol I never thought of that!? Makes it even funnier now.
I don't think it sucked. Rushed hell yes, all it could be NO. But that's the show since season 5. It started like Lord of the rings and ended like the hobbit movies in a sense. I can see why it's a colossal project to undertake i'd burn out too which is probably why show runners should know when to hand a project over but probably can't fit legal reasons etc.I heard one train of thought saying that the whole thing about sending Jon to the Nights Watch was just a plan of Bran so that Jon could go North and live out his days with the Wildlings as the Night's Watch is a completely pointless group now anyway. Makes sense to me. But yes, Jon's character would honour his debt I am sure, especially after killing the woman he loved.
Can anyone else see Jon abandoning the nights watch to live with the free folk? No one can stop him. The nights watch is too small, Sansa won't care, noone south would care and the second the unsullied handed back the city they became weaker than any full army in Westeros.
I don't think it sucked. Rushed hell yes, all it could be NO. But that's the show since season 5. It started like Lord of the rings and ended like the hobbit movies in a sense. I can see why it's a colossal project to undertake i'd burn out too which is probably why show runners should know when to hand a project over but probably can't fit legal reasons etc.
Can anyone else see Jon abandoning the nights watch to live with the free folk? No one can stop him. The nights watch is too small, Sansa won't care, noone south would care and the second the unsullied handed back the city they became weaker than any full army in Westeros.
I did not foress Bran becomeing the king just to mention one
But that is the entire problem with the way the show ran...as they develop all these characters and then fail to bring things through...and instead give the crown to 'Bran the Broken' because he was being a peeping tom and got shoved out of a window by Jamie Lannister (one of my fav characters). That said, I don't think Jon Snow was fit to rule anyone, let along lead an army. He proved time and time again to be useless. In the first battle of Winterfell we charges right into a battle and gets his army encircled! At the second battle of Winterfell he sits on his dragon on the ground for ages instead of toasting the undead, which would have saved some lives. Then before the gates of King's Landing he does bugger all...and once the city is breached, he can't even control his own forces. What sorta leader is that? Not a good one! I could go on and on but Jon Snow is useless. Heck, he kisses Dany for sticking her in the gut. And where was Dany's guards to make sure a heavily armed Jon Snow was allowed in...the only weapon Snow didn't bring was a scorpion! Just bad writing and a plot my 7 yr old could better write.
While the show has been entertaining at times it has also demonstrated a lot of failures for such a resource-intensive show. HBO should be ashamed at this. This is right up there with the Soprano's crap ending, True Detective Season 3 (where the lead detective gets dementia and can't remember who the person is! Ahhhhhhhh!), etc....just a long line of bad story telling.
Well at least we have Chernobyl, which is looking pretty good with two (2) episodes thus far....and a Deadwood movie that looks promising.
Not a spoiler at all, and despite overwhelming literary evidence to the contrary, according to filmmakers Middle Earth and Westeros share a unique feature in warfare - they never invented the ditch/moat!
It seemed very anticlimactic to me. The death of Dany was rushed and without much wow factor.
Jon simply can't keep any vow he has ever made. A vow to the Night Watch, he broke it. A vow to
be King of the North, he broke it. A vow to follow Queen Dany, broke that too. A vow to go back to the
Night Watch, nope he rides off. Hey, a great hero uh.
So the North can go independent but not the Iron Isles who have been fighting for independence the whole show?
Yara just sat there and voted for Bran. Right.
I kind of enjoyed it while it was happening, but I've felt that way about every episode this time, only for the episodes to fester in my mind and get worse as time goes on and the more I think about them. Maybe the key is to not think about it! lol
Yeah, but why does Sandor wait all his adult life before deciding to go kill him?
Lazy fan-fiction of an ending after eight years...
Can't wait for the reboot!
Can anyone else see Jon abandoning the nights watch to live with the free folk?
I loved the scene where Tyrion found the bodies of Jaime and Cersei. Peter Dinklage is great when you give him something to work with. Pity we haven't had much of that in recent years. I don't think that character has had anything interesting to do since he shot Charles Dance on the toilet with a crossbow.
Loved it. Sure it was rushed, but we all knew it would be. A good ending to the series and in style.
“Bran the Broken” or “Bran the schemer”?
And essentially, let’s face it, the Starks won.
If that’s not a fulfilling and just end to the story cycle after everything that’s been done to them and all the injustices and trials they’ve been put through for the last nine years, I don’t know what is :)
I just want it recorded that the Dylan guy who started that petition is categorically not me! (One of my pals has already accused me of that).
Though if I did remake it, it would be an entire season of Tyrion rearranging chairs, that bit was great.
I just want it recorded that the Dylan guy who started that petition is categorically not me! (One of my pals has already accused me of that).
Though if I did remake it, it would be an entire season of Tyrion rearranging chairs, that bit was great.
The final winner would be... Winter.
So were you drinking when you watched it??? ;D
No, I just managed my expectations well ;)
Yeah but I am confused as winter came to King's Landing but in the final shot of Jon Snow going north they show a plant growing through the snow. So does that mean winter is over? If so, won't the man-made ice wall separating the north and wilds melt (global warming ;D )? Just wondering why it would be snowy down south and then spring already in the north?Exactly! Yet another example of S8 writers ignoring S1 to S7 and the whole ASOIAF backstory/history. A cheap meme for hope like the plant at the end of Hayao Miyazaki's 1984 Naussicaa. It would be a colossal waste of White Ravens announcing that Winter has arrived, let alone the North's famous catchphrase'. The wall has stood for many weather cycles so would not melt. It also makes no sense for the Freefolk to go North again to a Land of Always Winter when the weather was supposedly going to get apocalyptically worse! The predictions were all that the long summer would be faced with an equally long winter. Resources have been squandered or burned in all the conflict. Old Nan told stories of people freezing in their castles, mother's killing their children rather than seeing them starve. The North Remembers - and so do ASOIAF Fans!
I do maintain though that the final scene should have been Robert Baratheon saying 'and that's what will happen if we don't kill her now!'
Catelyn Stark wakes up from a terrible dream as Ned Stark is just getting out of the shower ...
a fulfilling and just end to the story cycle after everything that’s been done to them and all the injustices and trials they’ve been put through for the last nine years
And that's exactly my problem. It was a happy end for most characters who survived this last season's mayhem. The books as well as the TV series have gone to great lengths tearing down their audience's expectations. As much as I – grumpily – loved the scenes of Brienne honouring Jaime's deeds or Tyrion conferring with his fellows – it was all about each and everyone back on the old tracks. Which have led whereto exactly? Westeros and a good part of Essos plunged into bloody wars, social crisis, and general turmoil. For some reason I'm not convinced the solution to all the desaster and upheaval caused lies in "Let's just switch to a 'presidential system', uhm, 'elective monarchy', because it'll be fine…" ::)
I actually felt belittled by the writers who thought it fit to brush aside Sam's proposal of a different solution, no matter how improbable it was - and thereby ridiculed fans who'd hoped for a more apt and witty conclusion to a series of world-shattering events.
That said, the last episode wasn't as bad as I feared based on the season so far. Some scenes were drawn out, perhaps to cover a lack of meaningful dialogue and action. Others were touching and played to the strengths of actors to shine before the curtain fell. First and foremost, I'm glad to have finally seen the (or one possible?) end to a story which I picked up somewhen in the early 2000's – fully expecting its conclusion before I would reach book 4 or 5… :D
I dunno, but one fellow at the meeting looked like he was from Dorne. He was dressed just like old Inigo Montoya used to when he was in the show.
That said, the last episode wasn't as bad as I feared based on the season so far. Some scenes were drawn out, perhaps to cover a lack of meaningful dialogue and action. Others were touching and played to the strengths of actors to shine before the curtain fell. First and foremost, I'm glad to have finally seen the (or one possible?) end to a story which I picked up somewhen in the early 2000's – fully expecting its conclusion before I would reach book 4 or 5… :D
Interesting to hear you expected a happy clappy reformed world ending. I never saw the ASOIAF universe to have the potential for that sort of thing. It’s all about struggle and temporary gains.
IMDB have them down as some unnamed Riverland and Vale lord. Highly unsatisfactory.
one wonders why they felt the need to invent a couple of random additional lords
...strangers from beyond the sea do not live long on the Island of Buttterflies. The Ghiscari seized the island thrice in the days of the old empire; The Valyrians erected a fort there whose walls of fused dragonstone can still be seen; a company of Volantene adventurers once built a trade town, complete with timber palisades and slave pens; corsairs from the Basilisk isles have landed on Naath countless times. Yet none of these invaders survived, and the Naathi claim that none lasted more than a year, for some evil humour lurks in the very air of this fair isle, and all those who linger too long on Naath soon succumb. Fever is the first sign of this plague, followed by painful spasms that make it seem as if victims are dancing wildly and uncontrollably. In the last stage, the afflicted sweat blood, and their flesh sloughs from their bones.
Well they killed everyone else of note, so I guess they had to hastily invent a few more previously unseen nobles... shoddy really, but it makes a kind of sense. Although actually it makes little sense because some of those represented (Tully, for instance, and Tarly) were not one of the great houses, but a subsidiary house? Highgarden wasn’t represented by its new lord, Bronn (the Tyrells all having been exterminated), and there were three Starks but no Targaryen (John Snow, although for obvious reasons). So given that it wasn’t representative of the seven kingdoms / seven great houses, one wonders why they felt the need to invent a couple of random additional lords. Kind of symptomatic of the slipshod approach of the final season, where everything became all rather loose, and internal logic flew out of the window.House Tully of Riverrun is one of the Great Houses, ruling the Riverlands. House Tarly were vassals of Tyrell and due to lazy writing, switched sides, and should now be among Bronn's bannermen, assuming there's still an House Tarly.
Kinvara, a high-ranking Red Priestess, appeared briefly in Season 6, traveling from Volantis to Meereen to pledge her support for Daenerys Targaryen. We haven’t seen Kinvara since, but it’s worth noting that in Season 7, Melisandre left Westeros and traveled to Volantis on a mysterious mission. Melisandre already knew she would die in Westeros, but maybe she needed to prepare Kinvara for the task ahead.
Of course, Kinvara isn’t the only Red Woman in Volantis. There’s an entire Red Priesthood of Volantis. So if someone is going to bring Dany back to life, it’s probably going to happen there.
I wonder if they will get an action figure?
;) :D
The one thing which does bug me with the this wrap up is the rationale why Bran the Broken should be king.
Tyrion says:
"What unites people? Armies? Gold? Flags? Stories. There’s nothing in the world more powerful than a good story. Nothing can stop it. No enemy can defeat it. And who has a better story than Bran the Broken? The boy who fell from a high tower and lived. He knew he’d never walk again, so he learned to fly. He crossed beyond the Wall, a crippled boy, and became the Three-Eyed Raven. He is our memory, the keeper of all our stories. The wars, weddings, births, massacres, famines. Our triumphs, our defeats, our past. Who better to lead us into the future?"
I find this feeble. Or I do not have the insights required to get it.
I guess that roman emperors have been selected on weaker grounds, like Claudius. Perhaps that's from where the scriptwriters picked their inspiration. Claudius, after all, turned out to be quite able administrator and lawmaker.
As I said before, the last season despite some good bits essentially SUCKED as a story...and Condottiere pointed to a good link explaining why. Here it is again. It has some big words in it but I think this group can handle using a dictionary! ;D
The one thing which does bug me with the this wrap up is the rationale why Bran the Broken should be king.
Plan won't work if Bran can warg into Drogon though. I think his reign will be pretty secure if he can pull that off :)what makes you think he didn't... it may explain why Drogon left Jon alone...
what makes you think he didn't... it may explain why Drogon left Jon alone...
The one thing which does bug me with the this wrap up is the rationale why Bran the Broken should be king.
Tyrion says:
"What unites people? Armies? Gold? Flags? Stories. There’s nothing in the world more powerful than a good story. Nothing can stop it. No enemy can defeat it. And who has a better story than Bran the Broken? The boy who fell from a high tower and lived. He knew he’d never walk again, so he learned to fly. He crossed beyond the Wall, a crippled boy, and became the Three-Eyed Raven. He is our memory, the keeper of all our stories. The wars, weddings, births, massacres, famines. Our triumphs, our defeats, our past. Who better to lead us into the future?"
I find this feeble. Or I do not have the insights required to get it.
I guess that roman emperors have been selected on weaker grounds, like Claudius. Perhaps that's from where the scriptwriters picked their inspiration. Claudius, after all, turned out to be quite able administrator and lawmaker.
Oooooooooooooooo, never thought of that! Ha, that really would make him Bran the Schemer!
I thought Jon being sent back to the Night's Watch, even if it maybe made no sense, was a very nice bittersweet ending for his character, and quite emotional actually.
Just remember I coined Bran the Schemer TM ... and I’ve got a deal going with the new Lord of Highgarden to share the marketing rights.
;)
...The books as well as the TV series have gone to great lengths tearing down their audience's expectations. As much as I – grumpily – loved the scenes of Brienne honouring Jaime's deeds or Tyrion conferring with his fellows – it was all about each and everyone back on the old tracks. Which have led whereto exactly? Westeros and a good part of Essos plunged into bloody wars, social crisis, and general turmoil. For some reason I'm not convinced the solution to all the desaster and upheaval caused lies in "Let's just switch to a 'presidential system', uhm, 'elective monarchy', because it'll be fine…" ::)
I actually felt belittled by the writers who thought it fit to brush aside Sam's proposal of a different solution, no matter how improbable it was - and thereby ridiculed fans who'd hoped for a more apt and witty conclusion to a series of world-shattering events...
(Puts on gruff Onion Knight voice) So you're Lord of Coining Fancy Titles now too, are you? :D
Three parts of the books deal with the theme of a desire on the part of "common" folk for freedom from aristocratic oppression, and how that desire is repeatedly thwarted.
1. The Freefolk from north of the wall despise "kneelers" but want to get south of the wall to avoid death. Unfortunately, they trust the arch-kneeler Jon Snow to help them, and his betrayal leads to the near extinction of the Freefolk, and (in the book) the killing of Ygritte (who is a virtual personification of freedom) by Jon Snow.
3. In the books the Sparrows aren't simply a bunch of religious nutters, as they are depicted in the tv series. Instead they are poor people reacting to the destruction brought upon them in the wars between aristocrats. They want to fight back against being mere victims. Religion offers them an alternative organization of society. But they are crushed and annihilated by the much more cunning and vicious Cersei, who restores the old order in spectacular fashion.
3. Daenerys liberates the slave cities, intending a more equitable society there. But her dream, and that of the slaves, is thwarted by the resurgence of inequity and aristocracy. Daenerys seems to want to establish a more equitable Westeros. However, her dream collapses when she goes off her rocker and is betrayed and murdered by Jon Snow.
I think what Martin is trying to tell us is that there is no hope for a more fair and equitable world. So just do the best you can for yourself and your family. I think Benioff & Weis were giving a nod to this message and trolling for a cynical laugh with Sam Tarley's proposal of a democratically elected king and the reaction of the aristocratic oligarchs. I say cynical because they know we live in a modern world that at least gives lip service to ideals of democracy and a more equitable society, and yet here we are wrapping up 8 seasons of a hugely popular series appealing to people's nostalgia for an even more oppressive and inequitable world of slavery and serfdom. I think the writers saw the irony in that, and so do I.
I agree. It was very moving. I thought it made sense. Apart perhaps from Grey Worm, everyone else involved knows that The Night's Watch no longer has a role or purpose. So actually sending John to Castle Black is an act of mercy. They are setting him free to live out his life amongst the Free Folk north of the wall - the great burdens of responsibility and duty he has been forced against his wishes to carry for all his adult life, finally lifted from his shoulders. It's not his punishment - it's his reward.
Well, that's my take on it anyway :)
Now watching Chernobyl and that is a pretty good story telling show...plus I know how it ends! ;D
Well if the writer's and/or director's don't know how to write/tell a story then what better to do than plagiarize others work. Just another reason why I was disappointed by the last season. Oh well....it's over and done with...
And they're all a better love story than Twilight.
Thank goodness I haven't seen those... or read them.Nor me, but from my daughter's explanation, it seems to be about a girl who has to choose between bestiality or necrophilia.
They tried to sell it as a positive. His inability to produce issue suits their new system of no more inherited monarchy, new incumbents of the Iron Slag Heap will be chosen by a council of nobles from now on. They figured this will mean no more mad, bad rulers. Well, I'm all for ditching hereditary monarchy, but getting rid of it never quite worked out that way in our world. Maybe they'll have better luck.Yes, I instantly thought "And that worked out SO well for the Holy Roman Empire..."
Has anyone else seen the HBO GoT production special : 'The Last Watch'. I've just seen a quarter into it but found it very interesting and quite touching, as it becomes quiote apparent that it hasa been so much more than a job to cast and crew. Especially the first read through of the last script gave a glimpse of how 'into it' the actors have been.
I can come up with a few other hypothesis abouth what these petitioners have a problem with in life, like a sense of priority, just to name one.
100% agree, though trying to explain my dislike for this kind of tedious internet "activism" (I bet some of them changed their profile pictures on facebook in protest too) will take us too far off topic I fear.
GRRM has some nice things to say on the finale on his Notablog. And also the rather chilling (to me) promise that, one thing he'll do differently when he finally finishes the books, is *also* tell the stories of characters who were cut out of the TV series (he then names a whole bunch, none of whom I remotely cared about as I slogged through the books :) )
I can come up with a few other hypothesis abouth what these petitioners have a problem with in life, like a sense of priority, just to name one.How about leave 'em be? I don't recall anyone having a go at the defenders of this Disney style wrap up. The petition is reasonable, but won't produce any results, though if it weren't for petitions, some shows wouln't have gotten an additional season or two.
A few in the production crew named a few readons for the need to wrap the series up toot sweet. One was for them to stay sane.
Nor me, but from my daughter's explanation, it seems to be about a girl who has to choose between bestiality or necrophilia.Why only two options? I thought it would be bestiality, necrophilia and addiction...
Yes, I instantly thought "And that worked out SO well for the Holy Roman Empire..."In theory it should've worked, but in reality conflicts between religious and secular authorities, in addition other centrifugal factors, contributed to a messy situation. For over a millennium, the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation did exist as a Central European entity and even as late as 1805, there was demand for its existence from the smaller states - German Armies: War and German Society: 1648-1806 (https://www.amazon.com/German-Armies-Society-1648-1806-Warfare/dp/1857281063). Despite conflicts, compared to the "Byzantine Republic", the HRE was rather stable...
I agree. It was very moving. I thought it made sense. Apart perhaps from Grey Worm, everyone else involved knows that The Night's Watch no longer has a role or purpose. So actually sending John to Castle Black is an act of mercy. They are setting him free to live out his life amongst the Free Folk north of the wall - the great burdens of responsibility and duty he has been forced against his wishes to carry for all his adult life, finally lifted from his shoulders. It's not his punishment - it's his reward.Pre-resurrected or post-resurrected Jon? Being resurrected probably dampened his verve, but still didn't explain the character's behavior in the last two seasons. In the books, Jon dreams of being a conqueror and had Ned been alive, he might've been given a fiefdom. Earlier seasons kind of showed this, but this season's Jon Snow wouldn't have marched down to Winterfell to confront Ramsey Bolton, as he'd be moping about Castle Black - I know the onscreen character was reluctant at first, due to weariness.
Well, that's my take on it anyway :)
I can come up with a few other hypothesis abouth what these petitioners have a problem with in life, like a sense of priority, just to name one.
And don't forget to sign the petition, if for nothing else than to voice your disgust at bad writing from a bunch of grossly overpaid Hollywood types!
https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-game-of-thrones-season-8-with-competent-writers?source_location=discover_feed
It probably won't happen but let the HBO Execs know that they can't keep screwing things up without consequences!
Season 8 in a nutshell: Game of Thrones Season 8 Pitch Meeting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAhKOV3nImQ)
lol lol lol
Getting exiled to beyond the wall was the showrunners not knowing what to do with the character.
3.8m same day viewers on Sky UKJust like Brexit... lol
13.0m live streaming viewers on HBO
Unknown numbers of viewers elsewhere and yet to watch......
Vs
1.6m signatories to the petition
Ha! Ha!A bit sad in what way? Unless there's a re-boot decades later, it's pointless ATM.
Just had a look at that petition thingy, very funny, and a bit sad. Got me thinking, I don't like that girlie buggering about in the Tardis and taking the piss out of the Daleks...
Time for a petition to Auntie?>:(
A bit sad in what way?
Well, it's not actually real life is it...
you know the stuff that actually counts for a piss in the wind?
::)
Just like Brexit... lol
Pretty sure we steer clear of politics on here. ;)
Like arguing over minutiae on an hobby site?
::)
Has anyone else seen the HBO GoT production special : 'The Last Watch'. I've just seen a quarter into it but found it very interesting and quite touching, as it becomes quiote apparent that it hasa been so much more than a job to cast and crew. Especially the first read through of the last script gave a glimpse of how 'into it' the actors have been.
Not seen any GoT. Any good?
Is it now time to talk about how greatly improved and enriched our lives have been by the experience of watching the Game of Thrones tv series? ;)
Watched it last night, Peder. I agree with you - it was quite affecting. Some of the characters (as in the extras and production crew) were amazing. I loved the ‘snow’ guy - hilarious. And complaining about the real snow because it meant he couldn’t spray his fake snow on top of it.