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Other Stuff => The Lead Painters' League => Season 11 => Topic started by: Captain Blood on February 10, 2017, 06:27:40 PM

Title: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 10, 2017, 06:27:40 PM
Lead Adventure Forum proudly presents:

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/20/577_27_02_15_7_18_45.jpg)

The Lead Painters’ League 11

This year, the Lead Painters' League will be held for the eleventh time.

The basic rule remains: paint 5 figures as a team, take a pic, resize the pic to a maximum of 1000 x 1000 pixels, and send it in.
 
In more detail…

Lead Painters’ League 11 (LPL11) Rules


1. Duration

The Lead Painters' League is held once a year, consisting of 10 rounds, with each round taking a week of real time.

2. Number of Participants

The maximum number of participants is 50.

3. Entry Requirements

To take part in the league, you must submit three new teams (to be featured in the first three rounds) by the specified deadline.
See below for this league’s season's deadlines.
Participation is on a first-come, first-served basis. The first 50 LAF members to submit three painted teams will take part in the league.

   - You may not enter your LPL11 registration pictures before Friday 17th March 2017, 19.00 pm GMT. Entries sent before this date and time won't be accepted.
   - The final deadline for entries is Friday 31st March 2017, 12.00 noon GMT. Remember, you must submit THREE teams by this date.
   - You MUST specify which of these THREE teams is to participate in the first round, which in the second round, and which in the third.

4. Teams

A ‘team’ consists of 5 or more fully-painted miniatures or models in any scale up to and including 40mm.

A ‘new team’ is a set of your painted figures or models, photos of which have NOT previously been published ANYWHERE on the Internet (this only applies to the miniatures in their painted state, of course).

All figures or models must be on finished bases, which may be textured, decorated, painted (with a pattern or in a solid, finished single colour) or consist of clear plastic (such as "flying" bases or clear acrylic/Perspex shapes).

The figures must form a plausible ‘team’ by following a common theme AND being ‘on the same side’ - thus, for example, 2 Vampires and 3 Witch Hunters do NOT form a legal team, whereas 5 Woodland Indians do.

A miniature mounted on a steed of any kind (horse, lizard, warg, pig, motorcycle, squig or space hopper) still counts as a single figure.
Larger beasts such as elephants and vehicles such as trucks, count as a single figure with their mahouts or drivers; any extra figures such as fighting crew or passengers count as separate, additional figures.

5. Team Photographs

You should submit a single photograph of the figures in the team, which may NOT be a collage or composite of individual images.

The maximum image dimensions are 1000 pixels wide by 1000 pixels high. The maximum file size is 1Mb (due to technical limitations and to reduce load time for slower internet connections).

You may NOT use any kind of digital manipulation except for basic image correction to white balance, colour balance, sharpness, brightness and contrast.

The following modifications are expressly FORBIDDEN:
•   Any added text
•   Any special effects (e.g. glow effects, artificial shadows, coloured outlines)
•   Additional close-ups
•   Alternative viewing angles
•   Digitally-added background imagery
•   Digital removal of base edges, addition of smoke, flames, etc
•   Any kind of frames
The above list is NOT comprehensive. In short, any modification that goes beyond making the picture representative of the actual figures (see above) is not allowed.

6. Backgrounds

Your backdrop may be a single colour or gradient, or you may use physical terrain pieces to provide a scenic backdrop for your miniatures.
You may not use a photograph as a backdrop, nor any form of illustration or painting portraying woods, hills, sky etc.
Any terrain must be in the photo from the start (i.e. you must photograph the figures in front of it). You may not digitally add in a background image at a later point.

7. Submitting Photographs

When submitting photographs, the following details must be supplied in the text body of the e-mail:
•   Team Name: to a maximum length of 30 characters (including additional information such as "decals used" or "xx mm scale").
•   Member Name: even if it is for the last round of the league, always remember to add your forum username to ease administration and avoid mix-ups.
•   Declare if the team is new – i.e. previously unpublished (see 3. above).

To help us with administration, please also put your user name, team name and intended round in the mail header  (e.g. "SamSamplename Crusader_Cavalry  Round 2" and, if possible, in the file name (e.g. "SamSamplename_crusader_cavalry_rd2.jpg"). This is useful for keeping track, especially for a larger number of participants. Further details as specified under 7.a. need only be put in the text body.

8. Match Pairings

In each round, participants' teams will be paired off in one topic for each match.
The first round pairings are completely random.
From round two onwards pairings are made using an algorithm devised by Westfalia Chris, based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss-system_tournament

LAF members may vote for either of the two teams.
Each LAF member has a single vote on each and every match.

9. Winning, drawing and losing

If the vote difference is 11 votes or more, the team with the higher number of votes is declared the winner and receives 30 match points. The team with the lower number of votes is the loser and receives 10 match points.

If the vote difference is 10 votes or less, the match counts as a draw and both teams are awarded 20 match points.

10a. Vote share bonus points

1. Both contestants' total vote scores are added to determine the total vote score.
2. Next, each contestant’s individual score is divided by the total vote score to determine their share.
3. Each contestant receives 1 vote point for every ten per cent of the total vote score.
4. For fractions of ten per cent, the lower score is rounded up to the next full ten, the higher score is rounded down. This means that unless a contestant receives zero votes, the minimum score is always 1, the maximum score is always 9.
Example: If, in a match, 500 votes were cast, of which 400 were in favour of contestant A and 100 in contestant B, contestant A receives 8 vote points (80%) whereas contestant  B receives 2 vote points (20%).
If contestant A received 370 votes (74%) whereas contestant B receives 130 (26%), contestant B's vote points are rounded up from 2.6 to 3.

10b. Newly painted team bonus points

In rounds 4 through 10, any new (i.e. unpublished, cf. 3 above) team will receive 10 points the first time it participates. Older, previously published teams may also be submitted to participate, but will not receive this ‘new team’ bonus.

11. Themed bonus rounds

Rounds 1, 5 and 10 are bonus rounds featuring a specific theme – a creative challenge for participants. Participants don’t HAVE to follow the theme in these rounds, but they will win extra bonus points if they do.
In these rounds, if you submit a new team for a bonus round that matches the bonus round's theme, your team receives an extra theme round bonus as specified below (in addition to the 10 point ‘new team’ bonus).

This year, the bonus themes are:

Round 1 - Tribesmen

A team comprising figures that represent a group of tribesmen or recognisably tribal warriors. From any historical period, fantasy or sci-fi setting. Ancient Germans, Zulus, Amazonian Indians, Dothraki – they’re all tribes. Think of a legitimate tribe, paint a team of at least 5 figures and earn 10 extra theme bonus points.
(If you are at all in doubt as to whether a subject meets the theme 'Tribesmen', feel free to ask).

Round 5 – Ship’s Crew

A team comprising members of a ship’s crew. Any ship, any crew. From Jason and the Argonauts, through the Age of Discovery, Nelson, Das Boot, and any other crew you can think of. From the Enterprise to Serenity or the Nostromo. The Nautilus or the Black Pearl. Think of a ship, paint a team of at least 5 figures representing its crew, and earn 10 extra theme bonus points.

Round 10 – Big Brother, Little Brothers

A team consisting of one large character, creature or entity, and at least 5 regular-sized figures TO THE SAME SCALE that recognisably relate as a set.
For example, Father Dagon accompanied by 5 Deep Ones. Or a Tyrannosaurus Rex accompanied by 5 velociraptors.
The bigger figure or model must visibly be - as an absolute minimum - at least twice as large as the other figures in the team.
Please note, for this bonus round theme, the teams must be 'figures'. Transport / vehicles / ships do not qualify (so, for instance, a big spaceship and 5 fighters wouldn't count).
Paint a team of a big brother (or sister) and at least 5 smaller plausible relatives, and earn 15 extra bonus points.
 
12. Unfair Means

During any round in which a team is participating in a match, you may NOT post images of that team elsewhere on the internet, nor ask other people to vote in your favour. This would constitute unsporting and ungentlemanly conduct.

13. Bonus Awards Points

There are 105 bonus points available to be collected during Season 11:

Round 1  - 10 pts theme bonus: ‘Tribesmen’
Round 2  - no bonus
Round 3  - no bonus
Round 4  - 10 pts new bonus
Round 5  - 10 pts new bonus, 10 pts theme bonus: ‘Ship’s Crew’
Round 6  - 10 pts new bonus
Round 7  - 10 pts new bonus
Round 8  - 10 pts new bonus
Round 9  - 10 pts new bonus
Round 10 - 10 pts new bonus, 15 pts theme bonus: ‘Big Brother, Little Brothers’

14. The Championship Title

After the final round of the league (round 10), the winner will be the participant who collected the greatest number of league points. Should two participants have scored an equal number of league points, we will hold a ‘paint-off’ - but probably this will not be necessary.

The three highest placed participants will be awarded Gold, Silver and Bronze medals shown on their LAF account and post info.

15. Timings, Registration and Deadlines

The first round of LPL11 will open for voting on Sunday 2nd April, 2017.

Entries to any round must be received by 12.00 Midnight BST (GMT +1 hour) on the Friday before the next round opens on the Sunday.

Which means that you have until 23.00 GMT on Friday 31st March to get your first three teams in at lpl@leadadventureforum.com.
The deadlines for LPL11 teams to be submitted will be as follows:

Round 1  - Friday 31st March
Round 2  - Friday 31st March
Round 3  - Friday 31st March
Round 4  - Friday 21st April
Round 5  - Friday 28th April
Round 6  - Friday 5th May
Round 7  - Friday 12th May
Round 8  - Friday 19th May
Round 9  - Friday 26th May
Round 10 – Friday 2nd June

PLEASE USE THIS RULES THREAD ONLY FOR QUESTIONS OR CLARIFICATIONS ON THE RULES.
FOR GENERAL COMMENT ON LPL11, PLEASE USE THE GENERAL LPL11 THREAD
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 15, 2017, 04:25:15 PM
For the "Tribe" round, I'm guessing, Orcs, Kobolds or Dwarfs bands are OK? If they'll all from the same species that is. :?

Are they tribal?
We're looking for subjects that anyone would automatically and immediately associate with the idea of tribes, tribal or tribesmen.

So for instance, Apache, Masai or Ancient Germans are widely known as tribes or part of tribal cultures.
Vikings on the other hand are not. Maybe they lived in tribes - certainly in family groups. But you don't think of Vikings as tribesmen.
Generic cultures, types or ethnic groups are not necessarily tribal / tribesmen.
I would say Orcs, Kobolds and Dwarves are not known for being part of tribes - so wouldn't qualify.
 
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on February 15, 2017, 04:57:05 PM
For round 10 would a 40K space marine Dreadnought be okay as the big brother  along with some space marines or would that count as a vehicle?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Deano on February 15, 2017, 05:02:07 PM
would a post apoc / mad max type group count as a tribal entry?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 15, 2017, 05:45:48 PM
For round 10 would a 40K space marine Dreadnought be okay as the big brother  along with some space marines or would that count as a vehicle?

Yes. That would count. It's a big figure, like a robot, right? Like a kind of giant space marine, only more machine like. In which case, fine. If it was more of a vehicle it wouldn't be.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Wirelizard on February 15, 2017, 06:30:43 PM
The bump to 1000px by 1000px is appreciated!
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 15, 2017, 07:02:05 PM
The bump to 1000px by 1000px is appreciated!

We had that last time too :)

would a post apoc / mad max type group count as a tribal entry?

Don't really think so, sorry Steve  :(

I know that the stereotypical post-apoc / Mad Max savage wasteland dwellers sport what are known as 'tribal tattoos' - so there's a kind of 'tribal' vibe going on. But they're really gangs of mutants and misfits, not homogenous tribes in the true sense. They are not tribesmen.
I think the test with this theme category is to put the word 'tribesmen' after it and see if it works.

So: Masai tribesmen, Ancient German tribesmen, Pathan tribesmen, Bedouin tribesmen, Game of Throne Hill Tribes tribesmen etc etc - yes.

But Viking tribesmen, Dwarf tribesmen, post apocalyptic tribesmen... They don't quite fly.

I'm afraid it is a little bit subjective.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Orctrader on February 15, 2017, 07:55:30 PM
Round 1 - Tribesmen

Copplestone (and others) "Cave Girls" converted with shields and spears as Lost World Tribeswomen.  Would these count for the bonus?  (As I just happen to be converting them now... ::) )
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Basement Dweller on February 15, 2017, 08:08:00 PM
More Tribesmen question...sorry...

How about Necromunda Ratskins...Ratskin Tribesmen rolls off the tongue for me. 
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 15, 2017, 08:12:35 PM
Round 1 - Tribesmen

Copplestone (and others) "Cave Girls" converted with shields and spears as Lost World Tribeswomen.  Would these count for the bonus?  (As I just happen to be converting them now... ::) )

'Cave tribes' seem plausible. I guess they may have been more extended family groups than tribes, but tribes of cave people feel like they qualify.


The easiest thing of course, would be if we all just stuck to the obvious tribes which we all know. But I guess that wouldn't be quite such a challenge ;)  lol
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 15, 2017, 08:13:36 PM
More Tribesmen question...sorry...

How about Necromunda Ratskins...Ratskin Tribesmen rolls off the tongue for me. 

I actually don't know what those are, sorry. I shall consult a higher authority - the LAF LPL mod team - and get back to you...
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on February 15, 2017, 08:36:49 PM
Hope it doesn’t get out wrong, as I don’t want to start a polemic, but, I think tribe is a dubious term… at least as soon as we get out of the historic realms…

I just checked Wikipedia (yes, I know), and they refer to a gang of Kobolds as "tribe".

The easiest thing of course, would be if we all just stuck to the obvious tribes which we all know. But I guess that wouldn't be quite such a challenge ;)  lol

Sticking to the usual suspect (i.e. historical tribes) sure make things easier… if you already get figures that fit the bill in your collection.

… BTW, are Zulu a tribe or a clan? ;)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Plynkes on February 15, 2017, 08:53:55 PM
… BTW, are Zulu a tribe or a clan? ;)

They are a people. The largest ethnic group in South Africa. If they are a tribe then the English are a tribe. I love the idea of this round (well of course I would!), and it seems clear to me what is intended if people approach it in a straightforward manner rather than looking for loopholes. But that word is unfortunately semantic fertile ground for those who hold close in their heart of hearts a dear love of nit-picking. :)

Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on February 15, 2017, 09:07:19 PM
…it seems clear to me what is intended if people approach it in a straightforward manner rather than looking for loopholes. But that word is unfortunately semantic fertile ground for those who hold close in their heart of hearts a dear love of nit-picking. :)

That exactly want I don’t want to do… I’m just trying to know if I got something in my figure collection that fit the theme of the round… I’ve got "lost in translation" quite a few times before with LPL rules and team terms… ;)  

Thanks for the info on the Zulu… just thinking, again, are Melanesian warriors a tribe? I got some Pulp figures to paint ;)

Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Plynkes on February 15, 2017, 09:11:01 PM
Oh, I wasn't accusing you, Calimero. It is a great idea for a round, but also rather a vague one. I think we can expect many more requests for rulings yet.

Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 15, 2017, 11:36:01 PM
Yes, it's open to interpretation. Whatever theme you choose, it's open to interpretation  :)
This possibly slightly more than most, I do appreciate. But feel free to keep asking, and I'll let you know. It's not a problem.

The Prof has found a Warhammer 40K reference which does indeed state that Necromunda Ratskins are a tribe, so they're in!

Zulus are a people, that's true. A mighty people. But since they fit most people's image of African tribal warriors, rightly or wrongly they're in, along with any other African tribes you can think of  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Basement Dweller on February 15, 2017, 11:48:54 PM
The Prof has found a Warhammer 40K reference which does indeed state that Necromunda Ratskins are a tribe, so they're in!

Woohoo!

Thanks for checking.  I will get filing mold lines and basing my poor old ratskins who finally get to see the light of day.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Jagannath on February 15, 2017, 11:55:10 PM
I'm sorry, I've got another Q:

- there's a lot of 6mm on my desk at the no, does (for example) 3 stands of infantry and 2 tanks (i.e. 5 'bases' of miniatures) count? Or 5 tanks?

...I don't think I've ever seen any 6mm in the LPL?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 16, 2017, 08:41:31 AM
You can enter just five 1/300 scale / 6mm figures if you like. Or five tanks or other models.
Tanks might be in with a chance against the larger scale miniatures that most people enter - 28mm in the main, although plenty of other scales do make an appearance from time to time.
But 6mm figures are rather unlikely to stand much chance in a match up against 28mm or 15mm figures.
It's entirely up to you, of course.
It's meant to be fun and enjoyable, and to put on a show for the viewing pleasure of the forum. But it is a competition format, so there is a kind of responsibility on participants to make their entries plausibly competitive.
Not sure that five 6mm figures would be.
There again, five figures or models is a Minimum. There's nothing to stop you entering an entire 6mm army! Maybe that would give five larger scale miniatures a run for their money :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on February 16, 2017, 09:11:50 AM
Given this here discussion, the Round 1 theme seems a bit obscure to me, especially when it comes to fantasy tribes people.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Nord on February 16, 2017, 09:38:55 AM
More esoteric than obscure, such fun.

According to the all knowing wikipedia, Picts were a tribal confederation of peoples. Good enough for me.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Nord on February 16, 2017, 09:42:31 AM
If I paint a cannon with four crew men, does that constitute a team of five?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 16, 2017, 10:19:30 AM
If I paint a cannon with four crew men, does that constitute a team of five?

Yes. A team is composed of a minimum of five figures or models. So four figures plus a model artillery piece would be a valid team of five figures/models.

The exception, as per the rules, is vehicles, whereby a vehicle and driver figure count as one item, not two.
But a vehicle (with or without driver) plus four more figures would be a valid team.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 16, 2017, 10:29:27 AM
Given this here discussion, the Round 1 theme seems a bit obscure to me, especially when it comes to fantasy tribes people.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism)

True, but we're not going to be too pernickety about it Peder  :)
Of course it's very hard to define. So where participants want to enter a team which is not obviously tribesmen, from obvious historical / fictional tribes that most people would instantly recognise as a tribal culture or people, we just have to make a judgement on a case by case basis. So feel free to keep asking  :)

I accept that this theme is much easier for people using a historical team, than for fantasy / sci-fi. There again the round 10 theme is very much easier for fantasy / sci-fi enthusiasts, so hopefully it's a reasonable balance :)

Yes, Picts qualify. The concept of 'Pictish tribes' is referenced all over the place.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Michi on February 16, 2017, 10:32:59 AM
"Cave Girls" converted with shields and spears as Lost World Tribeswomen.  Would these count for the bonus?  (As I just happen to be converting them now... ::) )

I look most forward to see what you will do...  :D
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on February 16, 2017, 10:56:33 AM
True, but we're not going to be too pernickety about it Peder  :)
Of course it's very hard to define. So where participants want to enter a team which is not obviously tribesmen, from obvious historical / fictional tribes that most people would instantly recognise as a tribal culture or people, we just have to make a judgement on a case by case basis. So feel free to keep asking  :)

I accept that this theme is much easier for people using a historical team, than for fantasy / sci-fi. There again the round 10 theme is very much easier for fantasy / sci-fi enthusiasts, so hopefully it's a reasonable balance :)

Yes, Picts qualify. The concept of 'Pictish tribes' is referenced all over the place.

Fair enough. As usual it is always best to get a individual ruling if one is in doubt.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 16, 2017, 11:23:46 AM
Indeed. And if we didn't have the bonus round themes to minutely dissect, what would we all have to talk about in the long run-up to the LPL itself?  lol

It's all part of the fun  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Jagannath on February 16, 2017, 01:41:27 PM
Excellent - thanks for above. I did mean 5 bases of 6mm (so 25 odd blokes).
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on February 16, 2017, 02:06:55 PM
…So feel free to keep asking  :)

Ok, Kobold don’t count as a Tribe. That’s fine. Would they count for round 10 if they are accompanied by a dragon?

Again, according to Wikipedia, they are a "tribe" of dog-like, humanoid creature akin to dragons… ;)

Sorry, I am pulling your leg, but, it does come from a genuine question… lol
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 16, 2017, 02:54:06 PM
You could definitely do five small dragons and a great big dragon.

I always thought in D&D terms kobolds were a kind of small, animal-faced goblin. Nothing remotely like a dragon...
In mythology, a kobold is just another kind of sprite.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 16, 2017, 02:59:39 PM
Regarding the 'Big Brother' theme- I understand that a vehicle doesn't count, but what if the 'Big Brother' is double the size of companions physically AND happens to be in a conveyance of sorts? 

Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Timbor on February 16, 2017, 03:33:09 PM
One other question for the 'Big Brother' theme - what if you have something such as a mounted commander and 5 troopers (be it a medieval lord on horse, or a scifi commander on some sort of hovercraft or something)?

The model for the 'big guy' would still be big, but that is more due to the mount rather than the size of the 'big brother'...
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on February 16, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Regarding the 'Big Brother' theme- I understand that a vehicle doesn't count, but what if the 'Big Brother' is double the size of companions physically AND happens to be in a conveyance of sorts? 

as long as he's not a vehicle that shouldn't be a problem but if you're not sure, just PM us what you had in mind and we can discuss


One other question for the 'Big Brother' theme - what if you have something such as a mounted commander and 5 troopers (be it a medieval lord on horse, or a scifi commander on some sort of hovercraft or something)?

The model for the 'big guy' would still be big, but that is more due to the mount rather than the size of the 'big brother'...

No, that wouldn't count. Guys on mounts aren't big, they just sitting higher :) Big Brother's supposed to be physically double the size of the rest of the team, without mounts being conisdered.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Orctrader on February 16, 2017, 07:01:55 PM
Question on Fantasy miniatures "Team"

Non-GW.  Think RPG, Fantasy "Adventurers", Dungeon Crawl, etc.

I was about to paint some of the above.  Would, say, a Dwarf, Wizard, Elf, Barbarian, & Paladin be a legal team?  Or would I have to have 5 Dwarfs, or 5 Wizards, etc?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 16, 2017, 07:10:25 PM
Question on Fantasy miniatures "Team"

Non-GW.  Think RPG, Fantasy "Adventurers", Dungeon Crawl, etc.

I was about to paint some of the above.  Would, say, a Dwarf, Wizard, Elf, Barbarian, & Paladin be a legal team?  Or would I have to have 5 Dwarfs, or 5 Wizards, etc?

Mixed race adventuring parties have always been allowed in the past- Fellowship of the Ring, Space Smugglers with humans and aliens, etc.
A group with a unified purpose.

One team type that has shown up a lot in the past that I have never been sure about is gladiators. In the photos they're often clearly fighting each other, but are still a unified team for LPL purposes? I suppose one could say they are a 'familia' from the same ludus...
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on February 16, 2017, 07:49:55 PM
Question on Fantasy miniatures "Team"

Non-GW.  Think RPG, Fantasy "Adventurers", Dungeon Crawl, etc.

I was about to paint some of the above.  Would, say, a Dwarf, Wizard, Elf, Barbarian, & Paladin be a legal team?  Or would I have to have 5 Dwarfs, or 5 Wizards, etc?

Sure, it's a proper adventuring party. As Matt said, they have always been allowed. Unified purpose is the key word.


Mixed race adventuring parties have always been allowed in the past- Fellowship of the Ring, Space Smugglers with humans and aliens, etc.
A group with a unified purpose.

One team type that has shown up a lot in the past that I have never been sure about is gladiators. In the photos they're often clearly fighting each other, but are still a unified team for LPL purposes? I suppose one could say they are a 'familia' from the same ludus...

Gladiators are also a group with unified purpose - entertaining, just like a sport team. Fighting each other but with one aim, to please the spectators
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Orctrader on February 16, 2017, 08:02:21 PM
Thanks gentlemen  for the confirmation on "Fantasy" team.  I'll continue to paint then... ::)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Ethelred the Almost Ready on February 17, 2017, 05:46:28 AM
I have followed the LPL for several years and have often thought it would be fun to enter.  I am, however, a notoriously slow and indifferent painter.  In the last few years I have hit a rut in gaming and painting.  Again, I am tempted to enter.  The problems being, living in the antipodes, I suspect it may be difficult to order and paint figures before the deadline.  Still, will think about it...................!

As a person procrastinating about entering I would like to comment on the bonus round for tribesmen as I think this is a potential source for disappointment.  The definition of tribesman or tribe is very open and what one person thinks is appropriate may not be seen that way by another. 
Dictionary definitions:
Tribesman:
1. A man who is a member of one's own tribe.
2. A member of a tribal people.

Tribe:
a group of people, often of related families, who live together, sharing the same language, culture, and history, especially those who do not live in towns or cities:


Am I right in thinking that the intention is primitive peoples?
If people are wanting to do a fantasy tribe, would a group wearing predominantly skins or primitive clothing or primitive armour, jewelry etc fit the bill?  Using simple clubs or stone weapons?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but if I am going to order figures I would need to do so soon and wouldn't want my "tribe" being disallowed.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 17, 2017, 07:45:21 AM
I'm sure we can all think of examples of tribes and tribesmen that are not primitive peoples. Although it's true that many primitive peoples are tribal cultures - Amazonian indians, Sarawak headhunters etc etc.

This bonus round theme is actually very easy if you just pick an obvious and well-known tribal subject.
It's only open to interpretation where you pick a subject that is open to interpretation  :)

As mentioned above, the best thing, if you have any doubts about your intended subject and whether it will qualify for the bonus points, is just to ask, either here or via pm.

Also, remember, the bonus theme rounds are not compulsory. There's an optional extra 10 points available if you paint to the theme. But not everyone is in it to chase down points  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on February 17, 2017, 03:11:37 PM
... But not everyone is in it to chase down points  :)

I’ll take all those I can scratch, just to defend my place at the bottom of the final list ;)

I rapidly check thru the thread but I didn’t see a reply to the question as if Pulp Melanesian warriors count as tribe?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 17, 2017, 03:24:03 PM
Melanesians - yes. Fine young cannibals. Definitely tribal types  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Wirelizard on February 17, 2017, 04:13:34 PM
Lovecraft style fishmen tribal enough? They're primitively armed and not wearing anything except ornaments, if that sways anything!

(I've also got about three dozen assorted fishpersons coming up for painting...)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on February 17, 2017, 04:16:50 PM
Finally I get to showcase the opponents of my Jazz Age Indian Army.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 17, 2017, 05:05:16 PM
Lovecraft style fishmen tribal enough? They're primitively armed and not wearing anything except ornaments, if that sways anything!

(I've also got about three dozen assorted fishpersons coming up for painting...)

No, sorry. Deep ones are not tribesmen or tribal to the best of my recollection of Lovecraft!

Just to repeat for anyone trying to identify a suitable subject, it's TRIBESMEN and TRIBES. That means peoples and cultures that are popularly and immediately associated with those words.  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Sinewgrab on February 18, 2017, 04:25:46 AM
For the big brother/little brother - is the current Genestealer Patriarch sufficiently larger than his lesser brethren? I was going to use it as an excuse to get going on my new age Cultists....
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 18, 2017, 09:10:30 AM
For the big brother/little brother - is the current Genestealer Patriarch sufficiently larger than his lesser brethren? I was going to use it as an excuse to get going on my new age Cultists....

I don't know the models in question, but on a quick look on the GW online store, the big genestealer thing looks quite a bit bigger than the regular genestealers, but without seeing them side by side, it's impossible for me to tell if it's at least twice the size... But it looks probable.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Orctrader on February 18, 2017, 09:10:01 PM
'Cave tribes' seem plausible. I guess they may have been more extended family groups than tribes, but tribes of cave people feel like they qualify.


The easiest thing of course, would be if we all just stuck to the obvious tribes which we all know. But I guess that wouldn't be quite such a challenge ;)  lol

Change of plan.  So there is no doubt I'm going to opt for figures that actually have "tribesmen" in the description - just discovered in the pile.   ::)  Of course, the soon-to-be converted cave women can appear in another round.   ;)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Neldoreth on February 20, 2017, 07:04:02 PM
Hey all,

For the big/little theme, would something like Minerva, the Goddess of War in Rome and a number of Roman Legionary Warriors count as in theme? This was a theme I did some time ago for some fantasy-historical mash ups! I'd love to do something similar to this and be on theme!

(http://www.hourofwolves.org/images/armies/marianRomansDBA/5_minervaScale.jpg)

Thanks
n
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 20, 2017, 08:00:02 PM
Roman God/Goddess of War with Roman soldiers. I would say that's on theme, yes.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: McMordain on February 22, 2017, 03:03:48 PM
Two questions concerning round 1 and 10 themes.

Round 1: If I understand right Native Americans are acceptable, so this girl (http://store.bombshellminis.com/10021-luta/) accompanied by this four (https://www.blackscorpionminiatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=98&osCsid=t70c2l7h2ov0jblvh3g1u03sv3) is ok?

Round 10: A Kurnoth Hunter is big enough compared to Dryads for this round? Here is a side-by-side pic of the two. (https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120204018_KurnothHunters04.jpg)

Thanks
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 22, 2017, 03:28:48 PM
Two questions concerning round 1 and 10 themes.

Round 1: If I understand right Native Americans are acceptable, so this girl (http://store.bombshellminis.com/10021-luta/) accompanied by this four (https://www.blackscorpionminiatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=98&osCsid=t70c2l7h2ov0jblvh3g1u03sv3) is ok?

Round 10: A Kurnoth Hunter is big enough compared to Dryads for this round? Here is a side-by-side pic of the two. (https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120204018_KurnothHunters04.jpg)

Thanks

Yes, and yes  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: McMordain on February 22, 2017, 03:32:28 PM
Yes, and yes  :)

Great, thanks! Now I just have to paint them...  lol
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on February 22, 2017, 07:00:49 PM
Roman God/Goddess of War with Roman soldiers. I would say that's on theme, yes.

So that make most "Gods and Mortals" figures sets OK for round 10? ::)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 22, 2017, 07:20:58 PM
So that make most "Gods and Mortals" figures sets OK for round 10? ::)

I don't know what those are, sorry. Link me to an example and I'll let you know.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on February 22, 2017, 09:00:30 PM
I don't know what those are, sorry. Link me to an example and I'll let you know.

From Osprey/North Star: http://www.northstarfigures.com/list.php?man=159&page=1
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 22, 2017, 10:03:32 PM
Yes, I would say so. Big 'God' miniature, plus regular sized miniatures from the same culture or setting. Seems to fit the theme...
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Thargor on February 22, 2017, 10:35:05 PM
Would Freebooters' Fate Amazons counts as Tribeswomen?

http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/index.php/en/shop2-2/amazonen
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Neldoreth on February 22, 2017, 10:39:35 PM
Hey again,

Would lizardfolk fall into the tribal category?

Also, Skythians? Wikipedia refers to them as being separated in terms of tribes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#List_of_Scythian_tribes)

Thanks
n
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 22, 2017, 10:48:47 PM
Would Freebooters' Fate Amazons counts as Tribeswomen?

http://www.freebooterminiatures.de/index.php/en/shop2-2/amazonen

Amazons were, I believe, a tribal culture in mythology, so I would say primitive style amazons, yes.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on February 22, 2017, 10:53:26 PM
Hey again,

Would lizardfolk fall into the tribal category?

Also, Skythians? Wikipedia refers to them as being separated in terms of tribes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#List_of_Scythian_tribes)

Thanks
n

Scythians as in ancient Black Sea / steppe  horse tribes? Yes.

Games Workshop Lizardmen? No, I don't think so, unless you can point me towards something in some codex or other that says they live in tribes.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Neldoreth on February 23, 2017, 04:53:42 PM
Scythians as in ancient Black Sea / steppe  horse tribes? Yes.

Games Workshop Lizardmen? No, I don't think so, unless you can point me towards something in some codex or other that says they live in tribes.

Yes, Scythians... I use the 'k' sometimes because Phil Barker uses 'skythian' in the DBA army lists for some reason :) Thanks, perfect.

n.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Muzfish4 on February 27, 2017, 03:59:52 AM
I am steeling myself to enter for the first time this year. After all, someone has to come last.

I think I am okay with the Copplestone cave people and am sure that a crew for a 'landship' won't cut the mustard for Round 5.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Sinewgrab on March 01, 2017, 02:48:48 AM
Would it count as 'Crew' if I did a, oh, biplane with the field crew? Mechanic, pilot, commander, etc?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 01, 2017, 03:11:05 AM
Would it count as 'Crew' if I did a, oh, biplane with the field crew? Mechanic, pilot, commander, etc?

One model and four accompanying crew would count as a five model and/or figure team, yes.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 01, 2017, 03:13:04 AM
I am steeling myself to enter for the first time this year. After all, someone has to come last.

I think I am okay with the Copplestone cave people and am sure that a crew for a 'landship' won't cut the mustard for Round 5.

Cave people are tribal, yes.
A land ship is transport, so wouldn't count as a 'big brother' for the round 10 theme bonus.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Sinewgrab on March 01, 2017, 03:53:43 AM
And one last question - I have been building an Easterling army for Dragon Rampant, and I am painting an armored troll along with some light conversion work to go with my Easterling troops - can I use that as a "Big Brother", as I am trying make him match paint wise and to some extent look wise?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: dbsubashi on March 01, 2017, 04:27:39 AM
Do Game of Thrones Hill Clans from the Mountains of the Moon near the Vale of Arryn count as Tribesmen?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 01, 2017, 09:07:18 AM
Hill Tribes, yes, definitely tribes.

5 men and a troll, no, afraid not. Not really related as a species.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: angstpuppet on March 08, 2017, 08:39:30 PM

Round 5 – Ship’s Crew

A team comprising members of a ship’s crew. Any ship, any crew. From Jason and the Argonauts, through the Age of Discovery, Nelson, Das Boot, and any other crew you can think of. From the Enterprise to Serenity or the Nostromo. The Nautilus or the Black Pearl. Think of a ship, paint a team of at least 5 figures representing its crew, and earn 10 extra theme bonus points.


So for Ship's Crew would 40k Horus Heresy era Breacher Marines work as Ship's Crew?  Part of their role was ship to ship boarding combat in space.  Below is a lexicanum link explaining their role.  I am hoping to use this league as a chance to get some of my many Heresy Emperor's Children painted, if I can get myself motivated.  I keep trying to join every year and every year something blows up in my life.  Maybe this is my lucky year.  http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Breacher_Siege_Space_Marine
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 08, 2017, 11:52:55 PM
Sorry, but I think it's a bit tenuous.
Space marines are space marines. They may travel by spaceship, but are they really the ship's crew?
'Ship's crew' means people who crew a ship.
There again, I suppose you would say that - for instance - colonial marines are part of the ship's crew of Battlestar Galactica.
But GW space marines?
I will consult with a higher authority, and get back to you...  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Orange on March 09, 2017, 12:50:41 AM
One model and four accompanying crew would count as a five model and/or figure team, yes.

In response to Sinewgrab's thing above, does this mean the ship (or plane in his case) and four crew count toward the 'Ship's Crew' points?

And along the lines of Space Marines, would pirates count, or are they supposed to be non-combatant crew?

Have a couple of ideas along those lines :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: angstpuppet on March 09, 2017, 01:42:49 AM
Sorry, but I think it's a bit tenuous.
Space marines are space marines. They may travel by spaceship, but are they really the ship's crew?
'Ship's crew' means people who crew a ship.
There again, I suppose you would say that - for instance - colonial marines are part of the ship's crew of Battlestar Galactica.
But GW space marines?
I will consult with a higher authority, and get back to you...  :)

It is fine e either way.  Basically that round is the only one where the miniatures are not built.  I have back ups and I am more in it for the idea of getting stuff painted than for winning.  Thanks for the quick response and for running this. 
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 09, 2017, 07:14:43 AM
In response to Sinewgrab's thing above, does this mean the ship (or plane in his case) and four crew count toward the 'Ship's Crew' points?

And along the lines of Space Marines, would pirates count, or are they supposed to be non-combatant crew?

Have a couple of ideas along those lines :)


Pirates crew pirate ships, so qualify as ship's crew.

A team needs to include 5 figures or models. So usually, four pirates and a cannon would count as a 'legal' team according to the rules.
However, the theme bonus for round 5 specifically spells out 'paint 5 figures representing a ship's crew'.
So for this round, to qualify for the bonus points, it needs to be 5 FIGURES.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on March 09, 2017, 08:56:20 AM
Sorry, but I think it's a bit tenuous.
Space marines are space marines. They may travel by spaceship, but are they really the ship's crew?
'Ship's crew' means people who crew a ship.
There again, I suppose you would say that - for instance - colonial marines are part of the ship's crew of Battlestar Galactica.
But GW space marines?
I will consult with a higher authority, and get back to you...  :)

Sorry, but to claim that marines are not a part of a ship's muster would have you answer to a lot of historical men of the service.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Plynkes on March 09, 2017, 09:10:55 AM
Sorry, but not to claim that marines are not a part of a ship's muster would have you answer to a lot of historical men of the service.


Yeah, but the word "marine" is thrown around to cover all kinds of troops. Royal Marine Light Infantry weren't part of a ship's crew, neither are modern Royal Marines. French Troupes de Marine weren't part of a ship's crew. USMC aren't part of a ship's crew. These are all more properly called Naval Infantry if you want to be sniffy about it, yet they are still known as "marines."

Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: marianas_gamer on March 09, 2017, 09:18:14 AM
I can not speak to the other services but the USMC was assigned to capital ships until at least WWII. I am not certain whether they were actually consider crew members but they did have assigned posts during action  :?
Lb
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 09, 2017, 09:19:24 AM
Sorry, but not to claim that marines are not a part of a ship's muster would have you answer to a lot of historical men of the service.


Agreed - in the case of historical (and present day) seagoing navies. Clearly the red-coated Royal Marines pictured around the dying Nelson at Trafalgar were part of 'the crew' of HMS Victory. Although, as Plynkes says, technically speaking they were an attached body, not part of the sailing crew in the truest sense.
Nevertheless - as I mentioned - you could certainly extrapolate that idea out to certain imaginary settings like the colonial marines forming part of 'the crew' of Battlestar Galactica.

But Warhammer 40K space marines? They're not really 'ship's crew' in the same sense are they? They are called space marines, but that's just a nice title for a generic, sci-fi, power-armoured, stormtrooper-type faction, right? They're not really ever associated on the GW gaming table with ships as such. They're just beefed-up, comic book, sci-fi soldiers.

Anyway, I've never in my life played Warhammer or 40K or any of that stuff, so am only going by what I have seen and picked up over the years.
I've asked the rest of the LPL moderator team for a view, and am happy to be corrected  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Plynkes on March 09, 2017, 09:24:47 AM
Your Trafalgar example would count, I think. They would be on the ship's books. The Royal Marine Light Infantry were a different animal. Formed to be part of Naval Brigades - quick reaction forces that could be sent at short notice to reinforce British forces around the world. The word Marine is used both for these types of fellow and the actual shipboard soldiers, the latter of which would, in my opinion count for the round, but the former would not.


(Though the sailors in the Naval Brigade would be formed from ship's compliments, so you probably would have to allow them :))


Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 09, 2017, 02:47:07 PM
I am kicking around doing a group of 40K Imperial Navy (offciers, ratings, engineers) for the 'crew' round. I personally don't think average Space Marines (Astartes) would be considered crew in the sense that they don't operate anything on the ship. There is an official 'Master of the Fleet' miniature but it would take some work to make five marines that are all clearly 'crew'.

This is from the 40K Lexicanum (which cites sources and is usually very in-line with 'canon'):

Quote
Unlike the vessels of the Imperial Navy, a Space Marine ship has a relatively small crew. A Space Marine is far too valuable to waste in manning a gun or watching a surveyor screen, and so only the officers aboard a vessel are likely to be Space Marines, as well as the few Techmarines who oversee the engines and perform other mechanical duties. Almost all the ship’s systems are run and monitored by servitors; half-human cyborgs who are wired into the vessel’s weapons, engines and communications apparatus. There are also a few hundred Chapter Serfs to attend to other duties, such as routine cleaning and maintenance, serving the Space Marines during meal times and other such honoured tasks. These serfs come from the Chapter’s home planet or the enclave they protect, many of them Novitiates or applicants who have failed some part of the recruiting or training process. These serfs are fanatically loyal to their superhuman masters, and indoctrinated into many of the lesser orders of the Chapter’s Cult. Although human, they still benefit from remarkable training and access to superior weaponry than is usually found on a naval vessel, making them a fearsome prospect in a boarding action – even without the support of their genetically modified lords.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 09, 2017, 03:04:25 PM
Okay, thanks Matt. Happy to take your steer on this.
Will see if The Prof has any additional views on it, but it feels like we could reasonably claim 40K Imperial Navy crew miniatures would count as a sci-fi ship's crew - whereas space marines are really just space marines...  :)

Speaking of sci-fi ships' crews, I would love it if someone did the crew of the Nostromo, really - complete with the exploding stomach and baby alien...  :D
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on March 10, 2017, 09:21:24 AM
I'm with Matt on this, Space marines aren't a part of crew, they're more or less passengers on their way to the next battle. The fact that they travel with space ships doesn't make them to crewmen. Otherwise we would have to allow the complete list of 40k characters/armies. Inquisitors, Imperial Guards, Adeptus Mechanicus troops and so on also travel with space ships. It's a common way to travel in the dark future :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 10, 2017, 10:36:02 AM
Thanks Alex. That's a 'no' to 40K space marines qualifying as Ship's Crew then.

Just to remind everyone, one week to go before the lists open!
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on March 10, 2017, 11:00:29 AM
Thanks Alex. That's a 'no' to 40K space marines qualifying as Ship's Crew then.

Just to remind everyone, one week to go before the lists open!

I think I'll have to pass this time.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 10, 2017, 11:28:31 AM
I think I'll have to pass this time.

But Peder, things just won't be the same without the additional game of 'spot the doggy'  ;)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: angstpuppet on March 10, 2017, 05:18:26 PM
Thanks Alex. That's a 'no' to 40K space marines qualifying as Ship's Crew then.

Just to remind everyone, one week to go before the lists open!

Cool, cool.  I adjusted my painting list accordingly and this allows me to get more done with models that are already built.  It also allows me time to take a breath on building more spruce maroons so that is nice as well.  My wife's ridiculous Stormcast dudes won't build themselves. 
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: dbsubashi on March 11, 2017, 02:55:38 AM
Continuing with my GoT theme, would 5 Wildlings and a giant count for Big Brother/Little Brother? Not quite the same species, but GoT giants are said to mate with humans.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 11, 2017, 08:59:58 AM
Continuing with my GoT theme, would 5 Wildlings and a giant count for Big Brother/Little Brother? Not quite the same species, but GoT giants are said to mate with humans.

Yes, that would count. The Giants and the other Wildling clans and races are all part of The Free Peoples, so there's a clear and direct relationship. They are part of the same set, if you like.
Good idea  ;)  8)

Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: AWu on March 11, 2017, 03:50:55 PM
Would GW Beastemen count as Tribe?

In he Mordheim source material they are but I would like a ruling before I commit

Quote
For the tribes of Beastmen the battles
fought in Mordheim are part of a great
religious war, an effort to bring down the
civilisation of man which offends the
Chaos gods
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 11, 2017, 04:36:25 PM
If they are clearly described as being in tribes in GW source materials, then they count as tribesmen, yes.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: AWu on March 11, 2017, 06:42:54 PM
Dunno how they are described in Warhammer - never played that, but they are clearly Tribes in Mordheim where this quote comes from
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 11, 2017, 09:34:49 PM
Well, Mordheim is a GW product. Beastmen are a GW product line. i guess we must take it that they know what they're talking about.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Muzfish4 on March 12, 2017, 08:53:43 AM
Was thinking about other tribal options and (almost) kicked myself for not considering the 'Peoples of the Sands' from Blind Beggar miniatures.

Their creator describes the miniatures as representing: "a Desert Nomad Tribe suitable for Sc-Fi, Post-Apocalyptic and Steampunk settings."

So, would these guys qualify as 'tribal' for the purpose of the contest?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on March 12, 2017, 10:02:45 AM
Dunno how they are described in Warhammer - never played that, but they are clearly Tribes in Mordheim where this quote comes from

Beastmen in Warhammer World are tribes, without doubt.


Was thinking about other tribal options and (almost) kicked myself for not considering the 'Peoples of the Sands' from Blind Beggar miniatures.

Their creator describes the miniatures as representing: "a Desert Nomad Tribe suitable for Sc-Fi, Post-Apocalyptic and Steampunk settings."

So, would these guys qualify as 'tribal' for the purpose of the contest?

No idea but our Mason is their creator, so we could ask him. If he says they are tribes, so be it :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 12, 2017, 10:06:43 AM
Well if Paul made them and says they are tribesmen, who am I to argue?  :)

This is, you will appreciate folks, the difficulty with themes... It's fairly easy to say that such-and-such a real world, historical culture was or wasn't tribal. Or, at least, we can all think of plenty of cultures and peoples that clearly were / are tribal.

Unfortunately, once you cross into the realms of fantasy and sci-fi, it's rather more difficult. A set of miniatures might look or feel primitive in some way - but that doesn't necessarily make them tribal. So all we have to go on really, is the word of the person or people who designed / invented / sculpted that set of miniatures...

(Edit: Or as The Prof just said!  lol)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 12, 2017, 10:25:54 AM
Also, I've received a question: Why would Game of Thrones Wildlings and Giant qualify for 'Big Brother, Little Brothers' when, for instance, a group of LOTR Easterlings and a cave troll, would not?

This is a very fair question. To explain:

The defining feature to qualify for this theme is that the big brother is in some obvious, recognisable way, of the same or a closely related TYPE to the little brothers.
Simply being on the same SIDE, doesn't count.

So, a GoT giant and accompanying Thenns, for instance, are - according to George RR Martin's books - all Wildlings, all part of the Free Peoples, of the same culture, and related.
Similarly, a Roman god of war accompanying a band of Roman heroes or soldiers, are related and of a distinct type - they are all Roman.

Conversely, whilst a group of (human) Easterlings and a cave troll are on the same side, they are not a related type in any other way. They are humans from one distinct culture, plus a troll from another.
If that was an acceptable 'Big Brother, Little Brother' grouping, then you'd effectively accept that any large fantasy creature can be paired with any group of regular-sized fantasy miniatures - proving they're all good, or all evil.
There has to be some stronger connection of shared type than that.
Hope that helps.

It's not an exact science I'm afraid. We'll continue to take each and every suggestion on a case by case basis, so please advise if you want to check out if your proposed team would qualify for the theme bonus points :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on March 12, 2017, 06:11:34 PM
"tribesmen" is the very definition of "can of worma"
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 12, 2017, 06:27:42 PM
"tribesmen" is the very definition of "can of worma"


Truthfully, every theme turns into a can of worms because - quite understandably - participants tend to want to paint a group of miniatures they are going to want to keep and use, so try to find a way to make the miniatures fit the theme even if they are somewhat borderline. I'm sure Sci-Fi and Fantasy wargamers don't want to have to paint 'obvious' tribesmen like Tupi, Pathans or Ancient Germans. So there's always going to be a bit of debate. It's not a problem - it's been the same in every single LPL so far :)

It's fine for people to ask if a particular potential team would or wouldn't qualify :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Sinewgrab on March 12, 2017, 07:19:46 PM
A Giant in an Orc/Goblin army would then qualify as Big Brother, as they are an essential part of the GW Warhammer Mythos for the race (up until AoS, at least)?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on March 12, 2017, 07:33:28 PM
Truthfully, every theme turns into a can of worms because - quite understandably - participants tend to want to paint a group of miniatures they are going to want to keep and use, so try to find a way to make the miniatures fit the theme even if they are somewhat borderline. I'm sure Sci-Fi and Fantasy wargamers don't want to have to paint 'obvious' tribesmen like Tupi, Pathans or Ancient Germans. So there's always going to be a bit of debate. It's not a problem - it's been the same in every single LPL so far :)

It's fine for people to ask if a particular potential team would or wouldn't qualify :)


Sorry. Didn'tmean to be a dick about it. The thene just seems cause an unusual amount of confusion.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 12, 2017, 09:18:20 PM
A Giant in an Orc/Goblin army would then qualify as Big Brother, as they are an essential part of the GW Warhammer Mythos for the race (up until AoS, at least)?

What you're saying is that in Warhammer Fantasy Battles, you can have giants in an army of orcs/goblins - that doesn't make the giants of the same type as the orcs / goblins, any more than having war elephants in a Macedonian Successor army makes an elephant big brother to a human being in the phalanx.

Obviously a giant orc or goblin would qualify. (So the Goblin King with a party of goblins, for instance? Perfect). But no, a traditional style fantasy giant is not the same type as orcs or goblins.



Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Neldoreth on March 13, 2017, 04:10:27 PM
Would the "From contaminated Seas" miniatures from Lead Adventure count as ship's crew?

(http://www.lead-adventure.com/images/pa_11.jpg)

(http://www.lead-adventure.com/images/PA_12.jpg)

Thanks
n
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 13, 2017, 04:41:58 PM
Yes. They definitely look like seafarers to me  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Muzfish4 on March 14, 2017, 04:32:41 AM
Beastmen in Warhammer World are tribes, without doubt.


No idea but our Mason is their creator, so we could ask him. If he says they are tribes, so be it :)

Just got confirmation from Mason  that they are tribal.

Now to get painting....

Thanks for your patience with this enquiry.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Wirelizard on March 14, 2017, 08:38:19 PM
5. Team Photographs

You should submit a single photograph of the figures in the team, which may NOT be a collage or composite of individual images.

Wut?  :?

Last LPL I managed to enter was LPL7, so it's been a while since I've reviewed the rules closely.

When did the "no collage/composite" rule kick in, and why?

I totally get and support the "no photoshoppery" rules, and reluctantly accept the "no text" ruling, but this one doesn't really make any sense.

Previous versions specified that all figures must be seen in at least one included view, which makes sense, but that multiple views after that was allowed.

These are figures. They're three dimensional objects. Not allowing multiple views seems like an unnecessary restriction. It takes a lot of the gloss off the bump from 800x800px up to 1000x1000, too.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 14, 2017, 08:48:51 PM
When did the "no collage/composite" rule kick in, and why?

I think the 'No montage' was introduced in LPL 8. As for 'why' I think it was because some members don't have the access to Photoshop or programs that allow a person to make slick composites. I was not super happy about that rule at the time because I like to include some detail shots, but it does force a person to think the 'single shot' through, so I'm ambivalent about it... adapt and overcome and all that. I'm probably partly to blame as I was putting in borders and stuff to make the detail shots pop ;)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 14, 2017, 09:19:32 PM
Yes. What Dr Mathias said. It's been that way for the last three or four years.
I too liked to include alternative views, but the Prof felt, and on balance I agree, that there was just too mich jiggery-pokery creeping in, and it was getting away from the basic premise of the LPL: paint 5 figures, take a photo of them, send it in. That's it. Back to basics  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on March 15, 2017, 01:49:51 PM

I won’t be able to send pictures for the first 3 rounds before next Monday… I hope all 50 places won’t fill up during the weekend  ;)

As usual, I’m struggling to take decent pictures. The ones I’ve done so far are too dark, too bright or too yellow… that’s when they aren’t out of focus  lol
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Vanvlak on March 17, 2017, 08:04:51 AM
Photos taken, but internet at home down and probably not back on before next week - so I'll only make it if 50 do not register before Friday, as I can't hang around at work til late.  :'(
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Neldoreth on March 17, 2017, 03:42:44 PM
@Calimero, I feel your pain. For the first three rounds of entries I spent a total of six hours setting up terrain, taking pictures, adjusting lighting, exposure, focus, camera angle, etc. etc. The process of taking good, vibrant pictures is very challenging for me! I'd totally buy a camera that was smart enough to do it all for me :)

In any case, I'm ready with the first three entries. I can't believe I have to wait another 3 hours and 18 minutes before I can submit them!!!! :D

Thanks
n
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 17, 2017, 05:42:40 PM
Painting figures is the easy bit. Experienced LPLers will all say the same thing - it's getting the right image that's the difficult bit. I usually have to shoot about 50 just to get the one I want where the composition, light, focus, etc, is all just right...  ::)

It's great when it all comes together though :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on March 17, 2017, 06:48:41 PM
... It's great when it all comes together though :)

I haven't reach that point yet ;)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 18, 2017, 03:04:03 AM
Do eggs (hatching or not) count as part of a team?

(https://sho3box.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/wp-1477422752461.jpg)

(Hoping Cheetor doesn't mind me using his cool Cirripods as an example ;) )
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on March 18, 2017, 07:27:15 AM
But Peder, things just won't be the same without the additional game of 'spot the doggy'  ;)

I made a mistake in thinging the pics *have* to be entered by March 17th. It's March 31st, right? So there is still some hope.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Muzfish4 on March 18, 2017, 07:32:45 AM
Sadly, may not be able to enter.

Just out of an unexpected four day stay in hospital.

Will try to get stuff done prior to deadline but am not overly hopeful.

Thanks for the patience in answering my questions.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 18, 2017, 08:33:27 AM
I made a mistake in thinging the pics *have* to be entered by March 17th. It's March 31st, right? So there is still some hope.

Correct Peder. Deadline is 31st March. (Unless we reach our ceiling of 50 contestants before then, but as we only have six registrations so far, I think that's unlikely :))

Do eggs (hatching or not) count as part of a team?

Matt, I don't see why not. The basic rule is five figures or models. These are individual models, so would count.

Sadly, may not be able to enter.
Just out of an unexpected four day stay in hospital.

Sorry to hear that. Hope you stage a full and healthy recovery :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Jagannath on March 19, 2017, 03:19:46 PM
*Sorry* turns out I do have another question. Just looking at my painting queue for future rounds - I've got some Peter Pig old west on the go. Would two characters mounted, on foot and as a casualty (i.e 2 sets of 3 models) count? I appreciate they don't really form a plausible team, in a sense.

In case it's not clear what I mean, I mean two sets like this

(http://www.peterpig.co.uk/WESTERN%20marshall%20heals.jpg)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 19, 2017, 03:47:14 PM
Yep!  :)
That's six models. The minimum for a legitimate team is 5.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Muzfish4 on March 20, 2017, 03:15:56 AM
Sorry to hear that. Hope you stage a full and healthy recovery :)

Thanks for the kind words.

Good luck to all participants and I hope to be able to enter next year.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Sinewgrab on March 20, 2017, 03:46:38 AM
Painting figures is the easy bit. Experienced LPLers will all say the same thing - it's getting the right image that's the difficult bit. I usually have to shoot about 50 just to get the one I want where the composition, light, focus, etc, is all just right...  ::)

It's great when it all comes together though :)

Honestly, I use it as an excuse to paint small groups I have meant to, or finish chunks of armies.  I will never be the same caliber painter that some of the participants are, so I just hope to participate, and not look ridiculous in the process.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Nord on March 23, 2017, 12:06:44 PM
I have a half painted anvil of doom that I might enter - it's this model.

http://www.solegends.com/citcat9x4/c93540-03.htm (http://www.solegends.com/citcat9x4/c93540-03.htm)

A figure on a steed counts as one figure, but does an anvil count as a steed?  lol In other words, to make this a legal entry, would I have to add one or two additional dwarfs?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 23, 2017, 01:01:33 PM
I think the best way to think about it is as 'separate models or figures'.

So a cannon and four crew is five models/figures and so a legal team.

But four men on horseback are still only four models, even though they might be comprised of 8 pieces to start with, because a mounted figure on horseback presents as a single piece.

In the case of your anvil, is the dwarf the 'driver', or is the anvil a model in its own right, and the dwarf a separate figure that happens to be standing on it?
Tricky.
I'd err on the side of caution and paint an extra dwarf or two if I were you, for the avoidance of doubt  ;)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: AWu on March 28, 2017, 05:47:14 PM
Ok
One more question before submitting photos

I am reading this part of the rules and it is unclear to me if printed backgrounds composed into image as background of the scene during taking photos?
 They are not specified as not allowed but are not listed as allowed either but rule suggest they might be not allowed

Quote
6. Photography Backgrounds

Your backdrop may be a single colour, a gradient, or a scenery setting including terrain pieces. Note that the backdrop must be in the photo from the start (i.e. you must photograph the figures in front of it). You may not digitally add or paint in a background image at a later point.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Neldoreth on March 28, 2017, 06:25:05 PM
Ok
One more question before submitting photos

I am reading this part of the rules and it is unclear to me if printed backgrounds composed into image as background of the scene during taking photos?
 They are not specified as not allowed but are not listed as allowed either but rule suggest they might be not allowed


I agree it isn't entirely clear, but I believe it means you may have one of the following backgrounds:

I am presuming that you can combine the above as well, so you can have a terrain setting with a gradient as a backdrop behind that... But since that list doesn't include an image of scenery, or an image of a real-life scene, I don't believe you can have it.

Thanks
n
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: AWu on March 28, 2017, 06:30:07 PM
That was how I read it but I would like definite answer to that.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 28, 2017, 06:53:44 PM
It is a good point. It isn't completely clear at the moment, so I am going to take it up with the LPL moderator team and we will clarify the rules on that as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 28, 2017, 08:19:30 PM
It would be nice to have example photos, i.e. 'This is allowed' and 'This is not allowed'.

I was under the impression that printed 'backdrops' are not allowed, so as I understand it, this one would be 'illegal' as it has an image as the ultimate backdrop (even though the image was in the photo, not 'shopped' in):

(http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27642.0;attach=3232;image)

Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Neldoreth on March 28, 2017, 09:12:47 PM
Nice image there Dr. Mathias!

thanks
n
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 28, 2017, 09:25:48 PM
I have consulted with the Admin team, and will amend the rules as follows to make it completely clear:

6. Backgrounds

Your backdrop may be a single colour or gradient, or you may use physical terrain pieces to provide a scenic backdrop for your miniatures.
You may not use a photograph as a backdrop, nor any form of illustration or painting portraying hills, forest, desert, sea, sky etc.
Any terrain must be in the photo from the start (i.e. you must photograph the figures in front of it). You may not digitally add in a background image at a later point.

In other words, as stated above by Neldoreth.

Now, I have received one entry so far which does include some painted trees in the background. As this is not a photograph, and there is very little time left for the participant to remake the image, I am going to let that single entry stand. No complaints about that please.

But from here on in, all entries submitted from today onwards should please abide by this rules clarification.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: area23 on March 28, 2017, 09:34:10 PM
That'd surely be my picture! I won't do it again!  :D

I interpreted it as "Your backdrop may be [...] a scenery setting"
Glad you'll let it be as it took quite an effort to make that picture.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 29, 2017, 04:21:26 AM
No problem. I do appreciate there was some room for ambiguity in the phrase 'a scenery setting'. But now, I think it's clear  :)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on March 29, 2017, 04:49:19 AM
I think technically one of my entries is also breaking the rules, I used a poster of a Galaxy as a backdrop for some spaceships. didn't really think about it, but I could probably retake the pic against a plain black background if I have to.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 29, 2017, 06:50:44 AM
I'll let that stand too, given that time is short. But if you want to resubmit, please do so.
As long as future entries follow the newly explained rule, we should be on solid ground.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Nord on March 29, 2017, 07:41:34 AM
I would have thought backdrops painted by the entrant would be a nice touch, surprised they are not allowed. Glad I didn't bother painting my Caledonian Forest watercolour masterpiece now. Ho hum. You see blue skies and clouds in so many pictures of minis - Wargames Illustrated, Perry Miniatures on their facebook page, even GW did it back in the early days.  ???
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 29, 2017, 08:55:05 AM
Yes, I'm afraid it's not a perfect solution Paul, but it's one of these 'where do you draw the line?' issues. So for this time anyway, the ruling is 'no image backdrops at all' - only figures, models and terrain/scenery.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on March 29, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
Yes, I'm afraid it's not a perfect solution Paul, but it's one of these 'where do you draw the line?' issues. So for this time anyway, the ruling is 'no image backdrops at all' - only figures, models and terrain/scenery.

If you restrict the scene to things you would only see on the game board you are in the clear.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on March 29, 2017, 11:48:01 AM
I would have thought backdrops painted by the entrant would be a nice touch, surprised they are not allowed.

Guys, there are many things which could be a nice touch in a picture. We had this discussion already, years ago. While we definitely agree that a painted background looks good in a picture, at least in many cases, nevertheless this competition is about painted miniatures and (optionally) painted terrain, not about paintings and that's the point. We had examples in the past where you hardly recognized miniatures because of huge and beautiful backgrounds.

We can't make everyone happy, sorry. Just think of the other faction out there asking for a LPL without any terrain, just with miniatures photographed against a plain background. Therefore we think that we currently have a nice compromise on that, allowing terrain and disallowing fancy backgrounds.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: area23 on March 29, 2017, 09:43:14 PM
I actually heartily agree.  I should've figured out how to have the focus pick out the mini's with the background blurred because that actually was the idea. It's really hard to do and better avoided, looking back.  
Some other pictures I made, also previous years, had too much background clutter, scenery bits, which only distracts and really doesn't improve the photo at all.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: TheWeasel on March 31, 2017, 04:58:11 AM
Hello,

Now that I've submitted some entries, I need to pester with two bits of clarification:
1. Is multi-basing allowed, or do models need to be individually based?
2. In regards to the background controversy, would it be allowed to use both terrain/scenery and a gradient behind that?

Looking forward to painting with the lot of you!

Thanks
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 31, 2017, 07:08:09 AM
Yes, to both your questions:)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on March 31, 2017, 08:01:24 AM
Minor amend to the rules to reflext the extension of today's deadline for entries from 12.00 GMT to 23.00 GMT.

There's still time!!!  ;)
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on April 04, 2017, 05:56:04 PM

Will 5 newly painted figures, never seen on the net before, count as a new team if they are surrounded by figures that where showed before?

I ask because I have painted some 15mm figures that might look odd and a little out of place if showed on their own… :?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 04, 2017, 06:46:58 PM
Will 5 newly painted figures, never seen on the net before, count as a new team if they are surrounded by figures that where showed before?

I ask because I have painted some 15mm figures that might look odd and a little out of place if showed on their own… :?


People have included older (previously shown) figures for years, so that shouldn't be a problem. Hammers had a neat recurring theme of a man with a dog that showed up in almost every pic. Contestants do tend to visually separate the new team in some manner (old figures in the background, out of focus, etc) so that the viewer knows what the 'team' is. 
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on April 04, 2017, 06:52:43 PM
What Matt said. It's allowed and wouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on April 04, 2017, 07:06:05 PM

Thanks both for the reply... now I just need to take a decent picture of the (very) little bugger  lol
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Hammers on April 05, 2017, 06:55:35 AM
Will 5 newly painted figures, never seen on the net before, count as a new team if they are surrounded by figures that where showed before?

I ask because I have painted some 15mm figures that might look odd and a little out of place if showed on their own… :?


For good or bad (*I* like it) we have over the years incorporated elements of dramatization in the photography of the competition entries. I believe the inspiration for this comes from After Action reports, a sort of frozen idealized wargaming situation. Often this requires extra miniatures to stage, which is thankfully allowed. The banning of painted backdrops and photo shopped images are consistent with this.

LPL is different in this approach, I don't know of any other miniature painting competition which promotes this.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Plynkes on April 05, 2017, 07:25:41 AM
Personally I think the LPL is much richer for it, and the mini-diorama aspect of many of the entries is for me what makes the contest so enjoyable. It would be a much poorer business without it, and to be honest, if all LPL entries had to be five (and no more) figures on a blank background I might not even bother following it.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Neldoreth on April 05, 2017, 03:45:08 PM
I agree that the story-telling aspect of LPL miniature dioramas (with a focus on 5+ specific ones) is what draws me in as well!

I looks forward to seeing what everyone comes up with for the rest of the league!

thanks
n
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on April 06, 2017, 02:10:23 PM

Might not be the best place to ask this question but, when taking pictures for the LPL do you use the "macro" function of your camera? :?
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 06, 2017, 02:14:38 PM
Might not be the best place to ask this question but, when taking pictures for the LPL do you use the "macro" function of your camera? :?

I wouldn't. In my experience macro is only needed for very close up work, like a detail on a single figure. Additionally macro severely limits depth of field making it harder to focus.


Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Calimero on April 06, 2017, 02:23:44 PM

Thanks! That might be the reason I have so much trouble taking decent pictures... that or just don't have any photography skills lol
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on April 06, 2017, 03:45:16 PM
I'd try a few shots with macro and a few without and then pick the best, the main advantage of digital photography is that you're not limited to the amount of pictures you can take without wasting film  :D
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Admiral Benbow on April 06, 2017, 08:06:27 PM
Gents, may I remind you this is the RULES topic. For any other discussions please use the LPL11 - General Discussion topic. Thank you.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Jagannath on April 14, 2017, 10:02:36 AM
Silly little question - when is it OK to post entries in threads and in blogs? After the round closes I assume? Does that then prevent them from being used in future rounds (I'm doing ok at the mo, but not sure I'll have a new entry for every round). Ta.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Captain Blood on April 14, 2017, 10:24:00 AM
You can post pics of a previously unshown set of figures elsewhere here and on the internet once the round concerned is over.

If you re-used the team in a later round of the LPL, it wouldn't get 'new team' bonus points anyway because it would already have been shown before - in the LPL!

There's no bar on a previously shown team being re-used in the LPL even if you have other images of the same figures elsewhere on the internet - although posts on other sites and social media of the 'here's my entry in a painting competition on LAF - go and vote for me' are clearly not allowed and would result in disqualification if seen / reported.
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: Jagannath on April 14, 2017, 10:30:01 AM
Excellent - thanks. For once I'm interpreting correctly!
Title: Re: THE LEAD PAINTERS LEAGUE 11 - THE RULES
Post by: JamesValentine on April 23, 2017, 12:39:40 PM
this looks like it could of been allot of fun.
its a shame I missed out and can't do jack now