Better wargames on grounds of Terrain....

[Elbows]

Gilbear, this was our table for the Mordheim Street Fight scenario.

[Pijlie]

The problem is even worse with Naval games.

I ran a large game of Jutland recently and reading the histories of the action made clear weather was a big deal.

Yet I ran into the same problem as discuss above - how to make those problems felt without slowing down the game.

The solutions provided by the rules (it being a naval wargame) weren't all that helpful and ultimately we played without weather, which I honestly think is a real shame.

Actually we solved that problem through a sort of terrain trick. We played the maneuvers and approach of the Jutland fleets with squadron counters on a double blind strategic map depicting the entire North Sea. Weather influenced visibility for ships, planes and airships in different ways and determined what the fleets could observe and what not. The game leader would confer the observations (or lack thereof) to the fleets. This in turn determined their decisions on course and speed. As soon as the fleets got close enough to each other, we transferred the fleets onto the tabletop and used miniatures and tabletop rules.

This in turn resulted in tactical plans and assumptions on behalf of the admirals and eventually in Beatty running into the same trap as in reality, facing the entire High Seas Fleet with just his battlecruisers and QE battleships!!

I could not think of a way to use weather on the tabletop, but this worked perfectly.

[Pijlie]

Gilbear, this was our table for the Mordheim Street Fight scenario.

That's a seriously nice table and proves everything I said about paper terrain

Graffam stuff?

[tin shed gamer]

Elbows,
During your game,was there any chance of you throwing a ball? If there wasn't . Then someone  didn't get the memo .

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Elbows:

Lovely, and also pretty original given the constraints. Very well done! 


@ Pijlie:

The card terrain in Elbows' photo is the old Mordheim (and Blood on the Steets?) terrain put out by GW.

[Elbows]

Yep, it was 30-40% of the original Mordheim card stuff mixed with my scatter terrain and hand-made Mordheim stuff.

[Wirelizard]

One of the first wargaming websites I ever tripped over, back when the web was young, dinosaurs ruled the earth, and some of you hadn't been born yet (so, the late 1990s)  was of a Belgian wargaming club, Schild en Vriend, whose motto at the time was "Visual Appeal Is Everything".

That site and the Major-General's (now lost, as far as I'm aware) formed my opinion that good looking playable terrain was as essential to the full enjoyment of this hobby as well painted figures and a collection of funny looking dice.

[Pijlie]

That site and the Major-General's (now lost, as far as I'm aware) formed my opinion that good looking playable terrain was as essential to the full enjoyment of this hobby as well painted figures and a collection of funny looking dice.

Fear not. Nothing is really lost in the digital age:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071228014907/http://www.zeitcom.com/majgen/index.html

[Polkovnik]

Terrain is important there's no getting around it. There's not single land battle through out history where its not been a factor.

In most ancient battles, terrain was not a significant factor.

But the empty Ancients tables always puzzle me. Terrain usually had a huge impact on the outcome of battles, so it is strange that Ancients tables feature so little terrain.

Ancients table generally feature little terrain because real ancient battles didn't feature much terrain. In fact, I suspect the set up rules of many ancient wargames rules actually allow for more terrain than was generally present.

[Elbows]

That's being a little disingenuous to the reality that terrain played a huge part in ancient battles...but it was on a more strategic level (and yes, might not be represented on the actual tabletop).  Also it's tough to represent muddy ground, or a slight raise in a hill, etc. on the tabletop.  Armies frequently maneuvered for quite a while (if they could afford it) to meet the enemy on either equal ground or with advantage.

Also, terrain is particularly ill suited to movement trays etc. 

[Pijlie]

In most ancient battles, terrain was not a significant factor.
Ancients table generally feature little terrain because real ancient battles didn't feature much terrain. In fact, I suspect the set up rules of many ancient wargames rules actually allow for more terrain than was generally present.

"Most" might be a little grand. I agree with Elbows that terrain was always important, but often avoided. However there are numerous Ancient battles where it played a crucial role, Magnesia and Trasimene Lake to name a few.

[Polkovnik]

I agree with Elbows that terrain was always important, but often avoided. However there are numerous Ancient battles where it played a crucial role, Magnesia and Trasimene Lake to name a few.

If it was avoided, so the battlefield was pretty much devoid of terrain, how is it important ?
How did terrain play a crucial role at Magnesia ? I've just read some stuff online about it, and I've not seen anything that indicates that terrain played any role in the battle.

[Pijlie]

If it was avoided, so the battlefield was pretty much devoid of terrain, how is it important ?

As Elbows indicated, terrain always played a strategic role, as commanders tried to find the most favorable (and probably empty) battlefield.

How did terrain play a crucial role at Magnesia ? I've just read some stuff online about it, and I've not seen anything that indicates that terrain played any role in the battle.

Ah stupid of me. I confused it with the battle of Pydna. There the broken terrain disrupted the Phalanx' integrity and enabled the Romans to enter the Phalanx blocks and break them up.

But there are many more examples. The narrow pass at Thermopylae, the ambush at Lake Trasimene, the ambush in Teutoburg forest, the river guarding the flank at Hydaspes, the passes during the Anabasis, the circumvallation at Alesia, the forest at the British rear at Watling Street, the mountain at Mons Graupius et cetera