WW1 1919

[GarrisonMiniatures]

Looking through the old Interwar wish list thread it struck me that no-one mentioned tanks like the Leichter Kampfwagons or Sturmpanzerwagen A7V-U. Nor do I know of anyone who produces these in any scale. Considering the interest in WW2 lasting into 1946, I would have expected something similar about 1919. Am I wrong, and 1919 is catered for, or am I right - and why?

Personally I would love models of the above - certainly in 15mm, but I'm a strange sort of person, also tend to get 20mm versions...

Rob

[Arlequín]

Copplestone do a LK II in 1/55th, along with a variety of other early Interwar vehicles. MGM do one in 1/72nd

I may be dead wrong, but with the Russian Revolution and 'civil wars' in Germany and the former Austro-Hungarian Empire, you don't have the same scope for a Great War 'what if', or I suppose the need for one.

If the Great War was only half as popular as WWII, then perhaps you might get a portion of players pushing beyond the armistice, but even in its centenary years it doesn't seem to have generated as much interest as it might have done; at least that's my impression anyway.

[Metternich]

If there can be VBCW, then why not WW 1, 1914-1919 (or even 1920)?  If you like contrafactual history, a good argument can (and has) been made that if the Germans (essentially Ludendorf) had not attempted the Michael Offensive (aka Kaiserschlacht) , and remained on the defensive and remained in the Hindenburg Line (especially given the influx of troops freed up from fighting Russia), they very well might have lasted into 1919 and possibly 1920.   

[FramFramson]

I think the issue there is what does going to five or six years of stalemated trench warfare from 4 years of stalemated trench warfare get you in terms of gaming... Not much, really? The speed of technical advancement simply wasn't half so fast as it was in WWII, where the war and its weapons changed fairly dramatically in a short period of time (1946 sees jet fighting, widespread assault rifles, the introduction of APCs, more rocketry, infra-red and other electrical gear for armoured and even infantry units, the potential for more nuclear weapons, and so on. 1919 sees... more use of light tanks and SMGs?), so pushing for another year doesn't really change the conflict dramatically.

Which isn't to say that technological development was by any means static in WWII, but if you want to play fluid late war WWI combat with SMGs, stormtroops, lighter tanks and such as seen in the other conflicts of 1919, then there's space to play them in late 1918 with very minimal fudging.

Which also brings up the fact that (as you already mentioned) there were a series of real conflicts in 1919-21, so you need not imagine a fifth year of WWI (whereas the developments of late '45 were not used immediately and there's a 5 year gap to the next major conflict, Korea) such that the Freikorps, Russo-Polish war, Tan War, BoB, etc. draws in most people who would otherwise be interested in a what-if? 1919 scenario had the world been at peace for a few years after the armistice and those late war weapons gone unused.  

[GarrisonMiniatures]

Looking up the MGM site found this Review site:

http://www.landships.info/landships/kit_reviews.html#
http://www.landships.info/landships/index.html

Well worth looking at - should probably post these on some other Boards such as WW1 Board...

[Etranger]

Plan 1919 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_1919 All the elements of Blitzkreig without a trendy name...

[Arlequín]

Well worth looking at - should probably post these on some other Boards such as WW1 Board...

You should be wary of the forum cross-posting rule. If you're primarily interested in a 1919 scenario, then this is indeed the right place though.
 

Plan 1919 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_1919 All the elements of Blitzkreig without a trendy name...

Nice and interesting entry, cheers! 

[fantail]

I am a bit late to this party but have a look at the Plan 1919 article from Chandelle magazine...
http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v2/v2n1/1919.html

[Metternich]

Thanks for posting that.  Another weapon that might have appeared in 1919 was the Browning 50 caliber heavy machine gun - the first version was being tested in October 1918.  Would have been a nasty surprise to German defensive positions (would have smacked right through armored shields).

[Arlequín]

Nitro Express 'Elephant Guns' of varying calibres had been the British answer to armoured shields since September 1915 and I imagine it wasn't unique to them.

As an anti-material weapon though, the M1918 would have been a game changer.

I seem to remember that the British were developing an APC alongside its mediums when the war ended.

[FramFramson]

Just a small note. The BAR did in fact see service in WWI. It was in the field being used in active combat by July 1918, and was used to great effect in the Meuse-Argonne Offensive.

[Arlequín]

I was referring to the 'Machine Gun .50 Calibre M1918', not the 'Automatic Rifle .30-06 Calibre M1918'.   

It gets better, 'M1917' can be a pistol, a rifle, a machine gun, or American-made Renault FTs and probably a few other things. I should have just said '.50 Cal'.

 

[FramFramson]

I'm sure the US army was just as easily confused then as we are now, given how shortly afterwards their military naming nomenclature changed

[carlos marighela]

If people fancy a Plan 1919 then most of the miniature elements have existed for some years. Copplestone produced a Medium Mark C, someone else did the Liberty Mk VIII, plus there's Disney toy that can be converted. Tobsen do the LkII and Warlord make a Char 2C.

1/48 Sopwith Snipes, Salamanders and Dolphins all exist in 1/48, albeit at a cost.

[Metternich]

Plenty of manufacturers make a set of Germans armed with MP-18s (which would have been more commonly issued by 1919 than in 1918 - typically, most gamers use a far higher proportion than would have appeared in 1918).  The Germans were also working on lighter anti-tank guns (a wheeled 20mm was being issued) which would have been more prevalent.  A lot of countries were also working on SMGs (e.g. chauchat-ribeyrolles pistolet-mitrailleur) which probably would have appeared in 1919-20 (though only the Germans and Italians issued a true SMG) - But I know of no figure manufacturers that produce them.