Twilight 2000 Armor Pen. Stats Question

[Mako]

I ran across some on-line vehicle and weapons stats for Twilight 2000, and was wondering about the weapons penetration values for tank guns, since it appears there are a number given in series, as below, with slashes between the four different ratings provided:

Weapon - 105mm M-68/L-7 gun - NATO
 
Reload - 2
 
Range - 410
 
Round Type - APDS
 
Damage - 23
 
Penetration - 88/77/65/42
 
IFR - Nil
 

I'd like to know why there are four different ratings, and when they are used?

A conversion factor for the armor ratings would be helpful too, to centimeters/millimeters of armor.

Any idea what the damage rating of 23 equates to?

Finally, I'd like to know what a range of 410 means - perhaps that's equivalent to 2,050 yds./meters, and/or 4,100 yds./m..  Surprisingly, there are no range bands given for the weapon, so perhaps the penetration values are for those - seems logical to me.  However, I'm not sure what they equate too - possibly pointblank, short, medium, and long range?

If so, how do those ranges equate to the 410 range given, as presumably a percentage of them?

Any light you can shed on the above will be appreciated.

[Gun bunny]

I ran across some on-line vehicle and weapons stats for Twilight 2000, and was wondering about the weapons penetration values for tank guns, since it appears there are a number given in series, as below, with slashes between the four different ratings provided:

Weapon - 105mm M-68/L-7 gun - NATO
 
Reload - 2
 
Range - 410
 
Round Type - APDS
 
Damage - 23
 
Penetration - 88/77/65/42
 
IFR - Nil
 

I'd like to know why there are four different ratings, and when they are used?

A conversion factor for the armor ratings would be helpful too, to centimeters/millimeters of armor.

Any idea what the damage rating of 23 equates to?

Finally, I'd like to know what a range of 410 means - perhaps that's equivalent to 2,050 yds./meters, and/or 4,100 yds./m..  Surprisingly, there are no range bands given for the weapon, so perhaps the penetration values are for those - seems logical to me.  However, I'm not sure what they equate too - possibly pointblank, short, medium, and long range?

If so, how do those ranges equate to the 410 range given, as presumably a percentage of them?

Any light you can shed on the above will be appreciated.

the l-7 is the main gun on the British challenger and the M1 Abrams
(which switched to 120mm at the M1a1)


Range: Every weapon has its own value, in meters, for close range
Medium range is twice this.
Long range is twice medium range (four times close range).
Extreme range is twice long range (eight times close range).

Larger weapons have a damage multiplier instead of a base damage number.
These weapons have their damage number preceded by x .

Weapons with a damage multiplier instead of a base damage number inflict damage equal to
4D6 times their multiplier at close range,
3D6 times their multiplier at medium range,
2D6 times their multiplier at long range,
and 1D6 times their multiplier at extreme range

APDS = armor piercing discarding sabot
 

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Armour is based on one unit equivalent to 5mm of RHA at 90°. So a car is likely to have armour of 1, WW2 armoured car somewhere in the 2-5 range. A WW2 tank might have armour 15. There are issues with scaling based on tech levels.

Penetration and damage are separate: in one game the player's BRDM was hit on the side with an ATGW. The majority of damage was to underwear, and the BRDM no longer floated as it now had holes each side.

I will admit to the difference between the versions fading in my memory. It is a long time ago.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

The L7 was the main gun on the Centurion, the Chieftain had the L11 120mm rifled gun (the M1A1 used the Rheinmetal 120mm smoothbore).

[Ultravanillasmurf]

IFR is (I think) Indirect Fire Range, and you cannot fire the L7 indirect (hence nil).

[Mako]

Ah, I see.

Thank you for all the replies.  That fills in a lot of the details.

For the tank gun ranges then, the penetration values make sense - one for each range.  On one of the charts I have the third value is longer than the second one, which is a bit confusing, but no doubt just a typo, since most of the others are not like that.

Anyone know which range is given for them, e.g. "Medium", or "Long" range - 410 for example, for the 105mm cannon?

410 = 2,050 meters/yds., so I'm guessing that is probably the "Long" range value, since it isn't rated for indirect fire, so presumably isn't permitted to fire 8,200 m./yds., even though I suspect it easily could, if elevated enough.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Not quite sure where you get your range from: close is 410m so extreme is 3280m.

Are your stats from version two of the game?

[Mako]

Ah, I see.

Your values make more sense.

I was multiplying the 410 x 5m (per unit) suggested in one of the posts above, and assuming that to be either "Effective Range" (frequently provided as a baseline for many sets of rules), "Medium" or "Long" range, since the value wasn't defined.

The 410m "Close" range value works for me.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

.I was multiplying the 410 x 5m (per unit) suggested in one of the posts above, and assuming that to be either "Effective Range" (frequently provided as a baseline for many sets of rules), "Medium" or "Long" range, since the value wasn't defined.

The 410m "Close" range value works for me.

Sorry I was unclear, the armour and penetration values are in units of 5mm RHA.

Interestingly I found the second edition Soiet vehicle guide. They rate the frontal armour of a T34/85 the same as that of an M4A3E8 with the turret front 16(80mm) and hull front 12(60mm).

The L7 guns in the NATO guide differ slightly from the ones in the original post (only slightly).

[Mako]

Hi UVS.

Actually, you were quite clear, but I appreciate the follow-up message.

Just me drawing false conclusions based upon other game scales I've seen in the past, like 5m/unit, or 10m, 20m, 25m, or 50m per unit as well.