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Author Topic: Any news on Congo 2??  (Read 4061 times)

Offline Calumma

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2017, 08:01:31 AM »
Really great news!

Any chance we might get a sneaky preview? Perhaps a few hints on the new dangerous terrain that will be included...  :)

Offline Sir Rodney Ffing

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2017, 03:30:46 PM »
Well, it's October now and hopefully publication is fast approaching. Does anyone have news of a confirmed release date?

Offline Kommando_J

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2017, 12:58:13 PM »
A wargames illustrated Prime only flip through of the new book is up!





Offline Kommando_J

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 06:27:14 PM »
Having watched the flip through i'm slightly confused why they chose Mary Kingsley.

Also her expedition wasn't very exploratory (as it was inspired by Sir Richard Francis Burton who climber Mount Cameroon first) at that point in time the caravans as they are in say, 1870 had been essentially killed off with the original (and extremely interesting) caravan culture strong-armed and replaced by increasing amounts of Europeans.

Mainly given that Congo is roughly set in about 1870 and Kingsley had her expedition at the very tail end of the Scramble in 1895 it doesnt reallymfit in with the classic 'flavour' that Congo vocally tries to emphasise.

Don't get me wrong, I shall be buying the book, but I would question why they didn't do Burton and Speke or Samuel and Florence Baker (an actual female explorer!) or a 'generic' campaign so you can make up your own!

Peoples thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 06:29:11 PM by Kommando_J »

Offline Plynkes

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2017, 07:27:32 AM »
I'm not all that sure Burton and Speke, or Speke and Grant are even all that suitable candidates for Congo. They were from that generation of explorers that tended to bargain their way through territory, and thus don't really provide much scope for combat gaming (unless you hang rather a lot of what-ifs on them). It was really Stanley and Peters who brought the idea that the best method of exploring was to shoot one's way across Africa, demonstrating one's superiority to the natives rather than negotiating with them.



With Cat-Like Tread
Upon our prey we steal...

Offline Calumma

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2017, 09:29:46 AM »
Well, she is a famous Victorian lady who climbed Mount Cameroon by a previously unattempted route. I believe that gives her credibility as an explorer. I'm also encouraged by the fact that she valued local peoples' customs and religions - even going so far as criticising missionaries for their practice of conversion. I'm now very keen on tracking down one of her travel accounts and reading it.

The campaign supplement looks terrific and I hope it is a success and ST decide to publish some more volumes.

My only disappointment, is that it looks like there are no new 'environments'. I was hoping that we might get scenarios in new settings. There appear to be new tables for savannah and jungle, although I'm not sure why they are needed. I guess we'll find out when we get our hands on the book... Here's hoping Foundry have some copies at SELWG on Sunday!   

Offline Sir Rodney Ffing

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2017, 10:23:55 AM »
I will buy it, but I have to admit I am a bit disappointed too. I am probably in the minority, but when a campaign book was first announced, I was hoping for something less linear in structure which would throw up random encounters as the expedition moves across the map, possibly suffering desertions, losses to illness etc, and see the player have to interact with potentially hostile village chiefs on the way (trade hongo for food, hire new porters, warriors etc).  OK, probably too much to ask for given Congo's focus on broadly balanced tabletop scenarios, but am I the only one interested in something on those lines?

Offline Captain Reid

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2017, 11:09:36 AM »
I've seen it mentioned that it will be released at Crisis in Antwerp, which would make the release November 4th.

I confess I rather like the look of the new book although it is mainly the new scenarios and creatures that interest me. As to why they chose Kingsley, I'm not sure, except of course she wrote a couple of books and, more importantly, was independent, not being accompanied by a husband.
The Saindoux Campaign of 1757, my French and Indian War blog
Cerro Manteca, 1811, my Peninsular War blog
my Congo blog

Offline Kommando_J

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2017, 02:29:48 PM »
I think actual exploration is needed for exploration, taking a previously un-attempted route to get to the same place...doesn't really count...in that case if I took a competently new route to China I could claim to be an explorer.

''I'm also encouraged by the fact that she valued local peoples' customs and religions - even going so far as criticising missionaries for their practice of conversion.''

She was also a paternalistic racist, cut from pretty much the same cloth as all of them, she took a more sympathetic tone but she still thought Africans were inferiors.

''I'm not all that sure Burton and Speke, or Speke and Grant are even all that suitable candidates for Congo. They were from that generation of explorers that tended to bargain their way through territory, and thus don't really provide much scope for combat gaming (unless you hang rather a lot of what-ifs on them).''

Going to have to school you dear boy...the fact is ALL explorers bargained there way through territories, it was a large part of custom and unavoidable.

''It was really Stanley and Peters who brought the idea that the best method of exploring was to shoot one's way across Africa, demonstrating one's superiority to the natives rather than negotiating with them.''

Stanley also didn't actually get into many gun fights, evidence shows that he exaggerated them as he was used to writing for a bloodthirsty Yank audience when he covered the Indian wars, ironically this would have negative blowback as the British public recoiled, also Burton and Speke were likely the opposite, they new that fighting and killing Africans was frowned upon so downplayed it.

Peters wasn't an explorer really, he came later and helped tear up the caravan system and local custom, he was essentially part of the second wave that would come in and secure previously ''discovered'' territories, he also came way after the classic Congo period of the early 1870's.

For the most part the image of fighting explorers was exaggerated at best,it was the Africans and Arabs having the true fights, Sir Rodney's suggestions really match how actual expeditions went(just finished a masters dissertation on them so I should know lol).

Offline Captain Reid

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2017, 03:27:16 PM »


 But surely Congo is Boy's Own stuff and not really attempting to model the rather tiresome day to day mundane misery of a C19 African expedition.

 If it's printing the legend, which I think it most firmly is, then shoehorning in Kingsley is fine by me although I confess I'd rather they used a fictitious character modelled loosely on her - an Alice Quatermain, if you like.

Offline Kommando_J

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2017, 03:50:06 PM »
''But surely Congo is Boy's Own stuff and not really attempting to model the rather tiresome day to day mundane misery of a C19 African expedition. ''

If we take that as a given, Kingsley makes less sense, her expedition was at the tail end when most things had become civilised and the caravan routes were German dominated.

For that classic adventure ''feel'' the Bakers would have suited better.

Offline Captain Reid

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2017, 03:59:49 PM »


 And against that she has the advantage of offering a caravan with a woman in sole charge, and as it's not really about authenticity, more about wild stories, why should it matter whether she explored less in real life?

As I say, I'd rather they created fictional characters (perhaps loosely based on real-life counterparts) but if they want to use historic names, I can't see it worth getting hung up over historic details. It would be different if it was a more historically accurate game, but it isn't.

Offline Kommando_J

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2017, 04:45:09 PM »
'' And against that she has the advantage of offering a caravan with a woman in sole charge,''

While impressive not remotely comparable to earlier expeditions as the caravan culture had changed massively in the between period - long story short with German dominance caravaneers lost their powers of collective bargaining (you see in earlier writings they threaten or indeed, do abandon things when self-interest pops up) and thus, become much more amenable.

If she had of tried the same route alone in Burton or even Stanley's time she would have likely failed/been killed.

''why should it matter whether she explored less in real life?''

Because in keeping with the feel as you mentioned, an actual explorer exploring during the scramble period would suit better, what she did (while impressive and scientifically valuable) was essentially a safari/tourism/ she did not really explore.

....Or to put it another way, actual exploration of the unknown is required, her predecessors adventured for fame and glory with the knowledge that it would be difficult and death was very likely...in 1895 a good deal of the risks had disappeared or lessened.

I agree on the generic campaign, my one problem with Congo is the insistence on ''named'' individuals (especially for scenarios) I prefer a slightly looser feel so I can make up my own.

I know I seem awfully grognard-ish but having spent months on a masters dissertation it just seems bizarre the choices, she's comparatively unknown.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 11:02:39 PM by Kommando_J »

Offline Sir Rodney Ffing

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2017, 03:44:50 PM »
Quote
rather tiresome day to day mundane misery
??

Each to their own, sir, each to their own.  

Personally, I think Congo cries out for that type of setting, which would capture the unpredictable nature of 19th century exploration rather better than scripted scenarios can possibly hope to do.  And that would still leave plenty of scope for Boy's Own stuff on the tabletop, with the added benefit (at least in my opinion) that some of the games generated would be truly heroic actions against very difficult odds, rather than play-tested and evenly balanced scenarios. Objectives could be the challenging matter of survival rather than (say) collecting flags from the middle of a river (OK, I know that one is meant to be symbolic, but it still seems a bit silly to me) and throw up genuine player choices.  Feeling the pinch because provisions are running low but the nearby village is unfriendly?  Do you move on and hope for better luck next time (albeit on short commons), try to take what you want by force (which might prejudice other nearby villages against you), or call a halt and try your luck at hunting? Maybe you are on low rations because some of the porters deserted in the night taking livestock with them, or perhaps they absconded with your hongo leaving you nothing to trade?  

If only.........  :'(

Offline Kommando_J

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Re: Any news on Congo 2??
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2017, 04:03:41 PM »
Agreed, Sir Rodney, i've been toying of the idea of a sharp practice list/campaign for colonial explorers as I have all the reading material and notes left over from my dissertation...might have tog et started lol.

 

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