Terrain question for the Europeans - Houses in Western Theater

[Sinewgrab]

So,  I am far and away the most prolific of the terrain makers in my group of friends/players/scoundrels, and I have been in a low-key but constant argument about terrain in the western theater - that my tables of bocage have too much bocage...



And most recently we have been arguing about house colors...he tells me I am using too much color, and that no-one painted their houses, especially not in the Market Garden theater.  I am pretty bloody sure that people were capable and willing to paint their houses in the 30's and 40's, and he is spending too much time looking at black and white photos, as though color did not exist back then either.



Can you help me out here?  Either way, I need to know so that I can do it correctly.

[Etranger]

If anything you need more bocage!
See https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/591160/depicting-problems-normandy-and-bocage-tactical-le and https://www.webharvest.gov/peth04/20041019220813/http://www.cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/doubler/doubler.asp for discussion of the bocage.

The Dutch (& Belgians) used a lot of brick in construction, so that would be the commonest material to been seen in walls. There would have been some plastered buildings, which may have been coloured, but they tended to be pastel in nature, rather than the vivid colours seen today, as limewashes used 'natural' pigments, rather than artificial ones. Most photos of the period are either black & white or 'colourised' (ie tinted B & W) photos rather than colour images anyway.

Here's one of the few authentic colour photos of the period that I'm aware of


From https://petapixel.com/2017/04/24/rare-color-photos-world-war-ii/ & originally IWM Collection.

[Sinewgrab]

The argument he has is that, according to 'what he read', the fields were much larger, and the amount of bocage I put on a table is unrealistic for the 28mm scale, that it should be, at best, breaking the field in two or possibly three areas, because fields were the size of football fields.  I fall into the category of not every field was anywhere close to the same, and photographs from the time show more than enough areas that are much more dense, and if I want to make the field a nightmare to force a tactical game, it is within a reasonable chance of realism.

The more pastel nature of the paints is good to know - did they ever paint the brick?  And was brick ever small enough that a simple brown house would be viable?  The houses I am using most right now are the Sarissa MDF from their World War 2 line.  Honestly, I hadn't really considered that as an issue until his saying that my table was too colorful.

He is a good friend, but we can go on for months with these arguments at times before either of us thinks to start actually tracking down sources. My thought was that the European contingent of LAF can probably answer the question with ease.

[Etranger]

The argument he has is that, according to 'what he read', the fields were much larger, and the amount of bocage I put on a table is unrealistic for the 28mm scale, that it should be, at best, breaking the field in two or possibly three areas, because fields were the size of football fields.  I fall into the category of not every field was anywhere close to the same, and photographs from the time show more than enough areas that are much more dense, and if I want to make the field a nightmare to force a tactical game, it is within a reasonable chance of realism....

What are your ground and figure scales? A large field might be the size of a football field but a lot are smaller. A bigger field means a better field of fire for the defenders too. Refer him to the Doubler study linked to above. If a professional military assessment won't convince him it's unlikely that much else will.

....
The more pastel nature of the paints is good to know - did they ever paint the brick?  And was brick ever small enough that a simple brown house would be viable?  The houses I am using most right now are the Sarissa MDF from their World War 2 line.  Honestly, I hadn't really considered that as an issue until his saying that my table was too colorful.
...

Sure, bricks could be painted, or more likely limewashed, but there don't seem to be a high proportion of such buildings.  

[Westfalia Chris]

I'd agree with Étranger's interpretation - houses can be colourful, especially in towns along old trading routes, but the actual colours should be a bit more muted. The ones you show look fine to me.

When not plastered over, exposed brick (or clinker-brick, which is not uncommon in these parts) would not be painted. I don't live too far from the lower Rhine (a bit more than an hour's drive from Nijmegen) and while most architecture in our spot of the woods is post-war nowadays, the overall impression of a town around here would be fifty shades of earth for the bricks, with the inner cities (old quarters) featuring facades plastered and painted for representation. Lattice-work houses would not be too common in North-Western Europe, especially in areas hit hard by WW1 (Leuven and other parts Belgium, North-Eastern France).

If you want to add that effect to MDF buildings that do not come with bricks engraved, you might want to look into embossed brick paper from the railroad modelling hobby. Lots of good stuff there these days, and you can easily use larger 1/87 or H0 brick paper for 28mm.

As for the field sizes, with 28mm WW2, there's always the dissonance between figure and ground scale. Personally, I like 28mm for WW2, but you need a big table to make it look right if there's more than the odd vehicle involved. As for areas, as a rule of thumb, I prefer any "outlined" area, e.g. fields, copses/woods, villages not to cover a larger area (in diameter, roughly) than what is the predominant range band for infantry small arms (usually about 18-24" for rifles), UNLESS you do an urban skirmish, in which case the whole table should be covered by BUAs.

Bocages are, of course, not appropriate for Market Garden, but hedges and gullies at the borders of fields are common in our region as well.

One last note, I would agree that the table you show in your picture is a bit too colourful (for my taste), but that is not due to the houses. The brushwork, hedges and trees are very diverse in colour and tone, and that makes it look a bit nervous. There should be variation of tone, but overall, most of the trees should be of similar greens, or if you are going for an autumnal look, a good part in yellows, ochres and oranges. The bright greens in your picture stand out rather jarringly. Maybe you could tone those down with a mid- to dark-green overspray, or replace them with duller or darker green trees and keep the lighter ones for springtime scenarios (e.g. May to June) when bright and lush greens would be more common.

EDIT: For reference, I've attached an image of Vischering Castle (near where I live). The trees in the background illustrate what I am trying to say - the picture was taken in late August 2015, and in late summer and early autumn, trees should be within that tonal spectrum, with maybe some trees thrown in that already go ochre.

[levied troop]

Bocage is 'slightly' different to hedge and is pretty much specific to Normandy (and parts of SW England):
https://goo.gl/images/ErDHZb

Basically it seems to be heavily banked up and the field was often higher than the surrounding land.  However most fields near to built up areas seem to be hedged and smaller in size/irregular in shape. I found allotments and small orchards were a good way to go in building village/town edges.

On house colours, Etranger's pic is a good guide.  From my observation (mostly French) brick is fairly standard, the front wall might be plastered and either left natural or get a coat of a pastel blue or cream.  Bright colour would be provided by shutters, window frames and doors although peeling and fading these would probably be more accurate.

Have you considered brick paper?  Unembossed paper would look better than painting the walls plain brown and the embossed papers you can get now can look superb. And they come ready painted!

However I tend to get a bit obsessional with buildings and ultimately the choice comes down your taste and fancy - there doesn't look anything intrinsically wrong with those photos and the ultimate answer to your friend has to be "well build one yourself"  


And Westfalia Chris just beat me to it 

[fred]

To me the second photo of your models does have the look of Dutch or German houses.

The first photo does not look particularly French. I think the timber framed houses are out of place. Norman houses tend to be solid pale colours either white washed or plain stone. Often with big walls surrounding an inner court yard.

I'd try adding some gardens around the houses, so they are not sitting directly on the green terrain. And some more orchards around the buildings. But there certainly doesn't seem to be too much bocage. But in 28mm you have big problems with figure scale vs the ground scale of the game.

[Sinewgrab]

Damn - you guys are bringing the knowledge guns to this fight.  I love it.

What are your ground and figure scales? A large field might be the size of a football field but a lot are smaller. A bigger field means a better field of fire for the defenders too. Refer him to the Doubler study linked to above. If a professional military assessment won't convince him it's unlikely that much else will.

Sure, bricks could be painted, or more likely limewashed, but there don't seem to be a high proportion of such buildings. 

The majority of our games are Bolt Action in 28mm.  Right now, we're tending to do Normandy, Market Garden, or Tank Wars in Africa as our main 'theaters', but there the occasional "Let's just call it Europe, and play" table.

I'd agree with Étranger's interpretation - houses can be colourful, especially in towns along old trading routes, but the actual colours should be a bit more muted. The ones you show look fine to me.

When not plastered over, exposed brick (or clinker-brick, which is not uncommon in these parts) would not be painted. I don't live too far from the lower Rhine (a bit more than an hour's drive from Nijmegen) and while most architecture in our spot of the woods is post-war nowadays, the overall impression of a town around here would be fifty shades of earth for the bricks, with the inner cities (old quarters) featuring facades plastered and painted for representation. Lattice-work houses would not be too common in North-Western Europe, especially in areas hit hard by WW1 (Leuven and other parts Belgium, North-Eastern France).

If you want to add that effect to MDF buildings that do not come with bricks engraved, you might want to look into embossed brick paper from the railroad modelling hobby. Lots of good stuff there these days, and you can easily use larger 1/87 or H0 brick paper for 28mm.

One last note, I would agree that the table you show in your picture is a bit too colourful (for my taste), but that is not due to the houses. The brushwork, hedges and trees are very diverse in colour and tone, and that makes it look a bit nervous. There should be variation of tone, but overall, most of the trees should be of similar greens, or if you are going for an autumnal look, a good part in yellows, ochres and oranges. The bright greens in your picture stand out rather jarringly. Maybe you could tone those down with a mid- to dark-green overspray, or replace them with duller or darker green trees and keep the lighter ones for springtime scenarios (e.g. May to June) when bright and lush greens would be more common.

EDIT: For reference, I've attached an image of Vischering Castle (near where I live). The trees in the background illustrate what I am trying to say - the picture was taken in late August 2015, and in late summer and early autumn, trees should be within that tonal spectrum, with maybe some trees thrown in that already go ochre.

When I built 30-some feet of bocage in a weekend, I was using anything and everything I could find that would work, and so I did mix my spring and autumn materials.  I would likely do it different if I did it a second time, but I have too many projects ahead to go back and play with it now.  It wasn't until I put it all together that I realized how colorful it was.

I don't think I have ever seen embossed brick paper - that's a fascinating idea for pasting onto the sides of Sarissa MDF buildings.  Any examples?

To me the second photo of your models does have the look of Dutch or German houses.

The first photo does not look particularly French. I think the timber framed houses are out of place. Norman houses tend to be solid pale colours either white washed or plain stone. Often with big walls surrounding an inner court yard.

I'd try adding some gardens around the houses, so they are not sitting directly on the green terrain. And some more orchards around the buildings. But there certainly doesn't seem to be too much bocage. But in 28mm you have big problems with figure scale vs the ground scale of the game.

I actually am working on making small gardens to place behind the various buildings I have, to give that 'kitchen garden' feel, but I hadn't put much thought into orchards yet.  And in the first photo, I didn't have very many buildings yet that weren't for fantasy and medieval games, so I just used what I could find.  Heck, even now, our BA games can have a mix of Sarissa WW2 houses and Plasticville Cape Cods in O Scale - because I have about 10 of those I got originally for my post-apocalyptic games.

Now, I just have to figure out where this embossed paper can be found, and see if that will work.  I want the texture - just flat images never sit right with me.  For some reason, my brain picks that out and complains more than anything else I have ever tried to do for terrain.  It is why I can't stand the Fat Mats and such.

[Ballardian]

 Here's a guy on fleabay with loads of O scale embossed paper brick & stonework:
 http://stores.ebay.co.uk/starboc1?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

[levied troop]

I have some of that paper to try out, looking at it in the flesh it seems fine, haven't used it yet.  Alcal had some tremendous results with it in his Stalingrad thread, but I think the photos went west in the photobucket disaster.

I have used embossed plasticard to reasonable effect, see:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=61298.0
for examples.

These are UK suppliers but I suspect US Railroad suppliers have very similar (warning: dark glasses might be required for the second link!):


https://slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/embossed.php

http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/Building%20Materials/Building%20Materials.htm

[gamer Mac]

Have you looked at the threads by V
I always think his stuff looks very realistic
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=104229.msg1295857#msg1295857

[Sinewgrab]

Have you looked at the threads by V
I always think his stuff looks very realistic
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=104229.msg1295857#msg1295857

I have. Inspiring as heck.

Or makes me want to throw the whole kit 'n' kaboodle in the river.  Depends on the day.

[Truscott Trotter]

I think the table and buildings look great.
its a wargame not a diorama
if he does't like the pink house with purple stripes and yellow dots you painted tell him to paint his own 

[z1pp132002]

A lot of good replies. Pastel colors for buildings yes, Tone down the vegetation yes drop the bright greens and oranges and lastly we are simulating during games so to build the fields the exact sizes we will need a large amount of space so fields are more a representation of a field than the actual field in all is glory. Lastly good friends should not be arguing about these things be greatful to have someone to game with and be greatfull to have the terrain you have many play solo with a lot less.

[Sinewgrab]

A lot of good replies. Pastel colors for buildings yes, Tone down the vegetation yes drop the bright greens and oranges and lastly we are simulating during games so to build the fields the exact sizes we will need a large amount of space so fields are more a representation of a field than the actual field in all is glory. Lastly good friends should not be arguing about these things be greatful to have someone to game with and be greatfull to have the terrain you have many play solo with a lot less.

Honestly, we have spent years arguing over things that don't really matter - I think half of it is just the way we interact, as both of us have fairly stressful jobs and it is our way of of getting grumpy where it doesn't matter.  Hell, I don't think we even try to win these arguments as much as it turns into a "who can find a solution first" situation.

Now, at least, next time I can tell him I checked with the people who live there, and this is okay and/or historically accurate. 

And he can suck it - that is the way we always tend to end these discussions.  It's a guy thing, I think.

I do, however, really appreciate everyone's input - if you can add to it, please feel free.  Maybe this will help another person from NOT THE WESTERN EUROPE AREA get their stuff correct.

I did, however, paint a house in lavender this weekend.  I am paling it down with pink and flesh tones, but yeah, the cafe is going to be lavender. Because, well, reasons.