Cold War, British Royal Aircraft Carrier Nukes?

[Mako]

Just curious if anyone knows how many nuke bombs the Royal Navy aircraft carriers had on board, during the Cold War, during the 1960s and 1970s?

Looking at the numbers of carriers available, and discounting those light carriers that couldn't carry jets, it appears that there were anywhere from 3 - 7 vessels that could stock them.

The highest number of vessels is listed in 1960 (only have records in 5 year blocks, from 1960 - 1990, that I've found on-line), with 6 x regular carriers and 3 light ones (only one of which could apparently carry jets).  Numbers drop rather sharply to 3 in 1975, before bumping up briefly in 1985 to 4, and then back down to 3 in 1990.

From what I've been able to find on-line, there were up to 35 Red Beard nukes in the FAA/RN, during the 1960s, and low numbers of WE177s in the same time period, though increasing to 43 of the latter, as the Red Beards were withdrawn from service in the 1970s.

So, presumably, that means anywhere from 5 - 8 or 10 warheads per vessel for the jets, per ship, in the 1960s, assuming most/all were kept on the vessels, and not on shore.  In the 1970s, it appears 12 - 14/15 might have been stored on board (43 WE-177s in inventory, and 45 x nukes of both types in one year available, if the info I have is correct).

Scimitars and Buccs were the usual carriers, for low-level strikes, but a few other fighters were also cleared for carrying them too.  

That's not counting the nuclear depth bombs, which could also be carried by helos and maritime patrol aircraft.

I imagine a lot of this info was classified, back in the day, but the Cold War has been over for quite a long time, and the secrecy should no longer be relevant, now that SSBNs are the only nuke weapons platform for the UK.

As a point of interest, apparently US carriers had 40 nuke bombs in their weapons inventory, during the Cold War of the 1960s, if the on-line info I ran across about that is accurate.

So, just curious if anyone has any other details to share on the subject?

[MartinR]

I think you will find that this information is still classified, our penchant for secrecy knows no bounds, however I'd be surprised if the entire stock was deployed as the warheads needed regular refurbishment.

The carriers sent to the Falklands still had nuclear weapons on them, so it is a good job we didn't lose any.

[Mako]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I would not be surprised by that, since I've seen stuff being "classified" for 75 - 100 years or so, IIRC.

I think Churchill's dealings with Hitler, and/or his agents are still classified as well.

A pity, for those of us who are interested in history, 50+ years on.

Good point on the Falklands vessels. 

Apparently, some of the escorts were carrying them too, but transferred them to the carriers prior to combat operations, while on their way to the South Atlantic, if I understood the article right.  Good thing they did, since two of the vessels were sunk during the war - Sheffield was one of them, and perhaps Coventry, if I recall correctly, for the second loss.

[carlos marighela]

I would doubt there were more than half a dozen on each of the Fleet Carriers and by the late sixties/ early seventies you are really down to just Eagle and Ark Royal with useful airwings. You do realise that the weapons were shipped disassembled? Authorisation was required to assemble the damn things let alone arm them or bomb up a Buccaneer.

On the other hand the RAF forward deployed nukes from time to time. There was a stockpile at RAF Tengah in Singapore during the Confrontation and Vulcans were deployed there too. Sukarno must have crapped himself when they did that.

For the navy, you might find some info on the relevant sections on the Buc and the Scimitar on the Thunder and Lightnings site, a must bookmark if you are interested in  British Cold War jets.

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/index.php

[Arlequín]

In the era of the Scimitar, the number of nukes wasn't the issue, it was how many Scimitars would reach the target; almost 50% of the production run were lost to accidents during their ten year operational service (3 or 4 per year). It also had the world record at the time for the number of maintenance hours per flight hour (1000:1).

As far as I recall each of the carriers had climate-controlled storage for five Red Beard bombs, so yes possibly the escorts carried one or more 'spares' in a similar fashion. As the Red Beard had a barometric fuse and the bomb could not be armed in flight, certain weather conditions would prevent their use, as once the fuse was 'last minute loaded' on deck the bomb was 'armed'. A rapid and substantial shift in air pressure could detonate it before take-off.

Excuse me, I think I hear the subtle knock of Special Branch at the door... 

[Mako]

5 may be close enough for "government work", for the 1960s anyway.

I suspect perhaps more in the 1970s, given fewer carriers, a higher threat level from the USSR/WP, and the fact Buccs can carry 1 or 2 "buckets of sunshine".

May have to go with 10 - 12 for them, per carrier.

Yes, interesting points on the Scimitar.  I just read that the other day.  I thought 100 maint. hours per aircraft was bad.  1,000 per flight hour seems a bit ridiculous.

Hadn't heard about the barometric fusing.  That could genuinely ruin one's whole day, with an adverse change in that.

Hope "special branch" isn't too hard on you.

I've been thinking the same thing on this side of the pond, given some of my research of late.  Imagine I'm on several people's lists.   

[Arrigo]

I can ask a Bucaneer sqn commander, but I am not so sure he will be willing to reply... on the other hand, he once borrowed me admiral RogertKeyes analysis  on early amphibious ops. It was written n WW2 and classified at the time, the copy was marked as 'not for release to foreign nationals; in particular to German, Japanese, Italians...' 

and I was walking around London with this thing under my arm...   

[Arlequín]

I've been thinking the same thing on this side of the pond, given some of my research of late.  Imagine I'm on several people's lists.  

I'm safe, my signing of the Official Secrets Act covered my work in a former life, which has no relation to the topic and indeed relates to the '50s. The info is safely in the public domain, or the domain of a pub, which is probably the same.  

The British aircraft industry has a history of creating technological marvels for WAFU's to fly, but which prove difficult for Fishheads to keep flying when they break. In defence of my former industry I should really say that over half of them didn't crash and that the nut behind the stick, which was a post-production fit, was sometimes to blame.

On a more serious note, the FAA do a risky job and dumb luck sometimes claims a life. Perhaps most famously in relation to the Scimitar in front of Brass and Press here;

 

They are much safer now of course, largely thanks to there being no aircraft for the carriers.
 
On the topic of 'ready nukes', I'm not sure if 12 per carrier would be accurate, other than a numerical share. I imagine that most of them would be kept on shore and only sent to ship if a crisis loomed. The government was penny-pinching then as now and replacing casings or whatever, due to potential transit and salt damage was an unnecessary expense.

The system relied on a period of tension developing, upon which the weapons would be issued. A sudden flashpoint would probably catch carriers without their full complement of ordnance on board. In hindsight the policy was a good one and probably saved a few quid, which could be then wasted elsewhere.  

 

[Arrigo]

Got my answer:

they had  5kt nukes, but not even squadron commanders were told the numbers. A small number anyway. but on the other hand he once told me they were supposed to launch the full squadron on a one way strike (bomb target continue across the Soviet Union, hopefully ejecting over Chinese territory. They carried leaflet written in Chinese asking to be taken to a PLA army base and then to the british embassy!    Look like a crazy scheme to me) By the way my source say 5kt, and the red beard was supposed to be 15 or 25kt.

By the way neither Hermes or Invincible had nukes during corporate. I was skeptical and asked around. Sadly I cannot ask Sandy anymore, but my second best choice said no.

Best,
Arrigo

[georgec]

I think most of this is declassified now, you just need to find it (or someone who has)in the National Archive, with the added problem that the pertinent files are probably split amongst the RN and RAF listings.  David Hobbs 'British Aircraft Carriers' does identify the ships that carried Red Beard and WE177 as Hermes, Victorious, Eagle, Ark Royal (IV) (and the 3 Invincibles) and this is consistent with the ships that got full angled-deck rebuilds for high performance jets and which probably included the 'vaults' for nuclear weapons

http://www.nuclear-weapons.info/vw.htm#WE.177

You might have found this Nuclear-Weapons Info site already? It has quite a lot on WE177 and the RN in the detail.  Some particular points of note I saw were that there were 20 WE177A transferred from the RN to the RAF on the demise of the carrier force, that Eagle and Ark Royal had carried WE177 but perhaps only one at any time, and that the 43 NDB WE177As were used for both helicopter ASW and Sea Harrier strike. 

However, in the Falkland section there is a little nugget that suggests that at the start of the war Hermes had about 40% of the stockpile on board and Invinvcible about 25%.  This would equate to about 16-18 on Hermes and 10-12 on Invincible, which would be consistent with around 16-20 being the load out for Eagle and Ark in the strike role before the transfer to the RAF.

No doubt the truth is in the .National Archive somewhere.