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Author Topic: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.  (Read 5657 times)

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

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It seems timely to look at the current state of high elf models for wargaming with Northstar to release their elves some time in the near future and the Elven Lords kickstarter hopefully beginning again.
I think it is fair to say that the choice for elves has been somewhat limited and the choice of sculpts have often been unusual.  Certainly, if we are looking for Tolkien inspired elves we have few good options.  Rather than lithe, agile elves we are often left with elves in heavy armour and oversized weapons.  I will state from the outset that I am biased towards a very traditional Tolkien take on elves and prefer a more Nordic look to them than the sometimes alien or oriental look of some sculpts.
I am not going to look at elves from companies like Reaper or Dark Sword who make great miniatures, but are very much individuals and not really suited for wargaming unless for skirmishes or adventuring-type games.

To start with the predictable - Games Workshop


One of the many incarnations of GW elves in great skirts of armour, what seem to me as static poses and chunky weapons.




Lord of the Rings GW.  Tome, much nicer figures than the Age of Sigmar elves.  They are more like what I imagine with elves, slighter of frame, elegant, but the armour is wrong for purist Tolkien.

Onto some older models.




Oldies but goodies from Alternative Armies.  Some interesting sculpts here.  Old fashioned look.  Still a bit of plate armour around, but not too heavy.  Some of the poses are nice, others are a bit.....



I believe these Scotia Grendel miniatures were made with the Lord of the Rings in mind (someone more knowledgeable may be able to correct me, but I think they did have a licence for Lord of the Rings).



Ral Partha miniatures.  Plate armour, alien features, but nice figures that I do like.  Just not for Tolkien elves.

I will stop here.  More to come but dinner is ready...








Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 06:14:18 AM »
High elves continued....



Grenadier/Mirliton.  I think these guys tick most of my boxes.  The aesthetic is right, the sculpts look nice enough although the poses are somewhat stiff and the spread legs are a little odd.  Still, if the North Star elves don't do it for me these are likely to be the figures I would buy.



Thunderbolt Mountain.  These have been around for a while, so may qualify as older sculpts.  Simply  beautiful miniatures.  I like this picture where the spears have been replaced by swords.  They are certainly very elvish to my mind. Elegant, lithe without being frail-looking, and just a little haughtyness.   My only gripe is a lack of mail and too much plate.  Still..........



I like a lot of the aspects of these elves.  The fact that we have swords and shields is good (where did elves with two handed swords come from?).  I like the helmets, but I wish we didn't have plate armour.

On to some (slightly) newer players in the market.



Mantic have now been around a while. These figures, for me, are just improbably proportioned. There is something almost insectoid about them.  Plate is a bit no for me, and the extension of the armour hanging between the legs is somewhat disturbing.



High elves from Gamezone Miniatures. I quite like these.  Their mail is mainly hidden under long robes and they have breastplates.  Nice figures, probably great for a Warhammer alternative, but possibly not faithful to Tolkien.



I don't see why some of their Dark Elves couldn't be High Elves either.



These Norba elves should tick a lot of my boxes, but many of the poses look awkward and the helmets just don't do it for me.  A missed opportunity?



The armour and weapons of these MOM miniatures make me think that these would be a good alternative to the Mantic elves, just much better executed.




The shields are a bit over the top, but hey, these are Elves.  A mix of mail and plate that I could live with.  Some of the poses don't quite work, but I think these are reasonable figures.



I do really like these figures and hope they do have another kickstarter.  They aren't the right look for Tolkien, but make great fantasy elves for other fantasy worlds. 

So that is where we are until we see the final product for Northstar.
Some of the Vendel figures were nice, but with Sgt Major Miniatures closing I suppose it is uncertain what is going to happen with these miniatures. 

This is only a quick overview.  The only figures I own are from Thunderbolt Mountain, so my comments are based purely on the pictures available on line. 

Are there other companies I have missed.

(I have just realised I should have stated 25/28mm as there are some great figures in other scales).






Offline Gibby

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2017, 08:46:19 AM »
Didn't the Warhammer elves all take their "inspiration" from Melniboneans rather than a more Tolkien-style tradition? After that, I suspect many ranges of elves tried to cash in on what became the GW look.

Offline Nord

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2017, 09:06:12 AM »
Can somebody explain "Tolkienesque" to me please. I cannot remember reading a description of elven armour in the main books, it is a good few years since I read it though.

You should really look at GW wood elves if you prefer less armour on your figures.

Personally, I have quite a few elves in my collection, never been inspired/restricted by any (real or otherwise) dogma. Got a high elf army from the 1990s (mostly plastic) I am very fond of, fully painted. It sits in my cabinet, rarely used but occasionally admired for nostalgic reasons.

Recently I trawled ebay and was really lucky to find a load of metal high elves from the same era - 1990s metal high elf spearmen and archers. I wouldn't say they were alien or oriental, I believe they were heavily inspired aesthetically by Assyrian culture. Around 25 years old and still looking good. I also thought that recent plastics from GW have been pretty good - the contents of the starter set Island of Blood contained phenomenal figures.

I also picked up a sizeable contingent of Thunderbolt Mountain elves. They are really nice too, very slender, a bit limited in poses but not too much of a problem. I really should get them painted up for games of Fantastic Saga.

I like my elves, whether they fit Tolkien's vision is immaterial to me.

Offline Corso

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2017, 09:22:09 AM »
So far GW have done nothing concrete on the Aelves in Age of Sigmar. Since in the fluff they are now united as Order, I would expect some new figures. I like the plastic wood elves, the eternal guard could fit as high elves too.

Offline sukhe_bator

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 10:41:47 AM »
Undoubtedly the GW Elves were originally inspired by Moorcock's Melniboneans and have much to do with the dissolution of the Citadel Eternal Champion ranges. They drew on an ancient aesthetic including the use of scale armour and short stabbing swords. These morphed into Dark Elves which got even stranger and over the top in the 1990s, but much of the original High Elf look is down to Moorcock's writings (including the use of recurved bows and short stabbing swords) to the extent that I'm shamelessly retasking my GW HEs. The release of HE Dragon Lords merely reinforced this connection in my eyes.
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Eternal_Champion

Before it became a solely GW vehicle, 'White Dwarf' magazine in the 80's marketed GW board games but it mainly catered to adventures for various RPGs. 'Stormbringer' was a RPG from Chaosium set in Moorcock's Elric universe. Several WD Stormbringer adventures featured artwork by one Jes Goodwin, so it's easy to see how Jes was inspired by Moorcock's books and how they influenced his work. Jes Goodwin's Melnibonéan models were the basis of the tall, conical helmet style that would inspire the High Elf and Eldar models of the early 90's. Moorcock's influence is even seen in the minute detail used in Goodwin's elf & Eldar faces. Moorcock describes the facial features of the Melnibonéan or "Eldren" race in one of the Elric novels as having high cheekbones, arching eyebrows, tapering jaws, near-lobeless pointed ears, etc.
Warriors dreams, summer grasses, all that remains

Offline Coenus Scaldingus

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2017, 01:43:38 PM »
I think the term 'Tolkienesque' has two main characteristics. The first quite simply is chainmail. It is by far the most commonly described armour in the books, both for Elves and just in general. Thus set in a mostly Dark Age or early Medieval setting in terms of arms and armour, it is also sensible that while varying in availability (rare among Dunlendings, presumably common among Dwarves), quality (crude orc mail all the way to mithril) and likely the exact design (short sleeve, long sleeve, mainly covering the torso or a longer dress covering the legs), the main idea is similar for various peoples and regions.

The second, more difficult to define characteristic in my mind is realism. This is less part of book descriptions, but rather based on the overall realistic and practical world portrayed therein. While often not fitting either the book descriptions or 'feel', I am still glad GW decided to produce the Middle-earth figures in a realistic rather than heroic scale. Overly strangely shaped or sized weapons and armours simply do not seem right in Tolkien's world, for whatever set of reasons. If anything, the movies helped with that, as most weapons and suits of armour had to at least be practical enough to be worn and wielded. (Exceptions exist of course; the Witch-king's flail springs to mind, or on a lesser note Thorin's back-scabbard for Orcrist.) I certainly like parts of the Elven design too; imagine the metal plates of the High Elven armour as chainmail and perhaps a slight varation on the helm (exchange metal thorn with a classical plume or crest) and you've got an elegant and practical outfit.

And of course, whenever Elven designs are mentioned.. this guy is hard to beat. A Ral Partha Tom Meier sculpt that's virtually perfect in my eyes.
~Ad finem temporum~

Offline Nord

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 02:19:57 PM »
I would be surprised if Tolkien ever went into such detail, he was pretty vague in his descriptions. I wonder if it is simply gamers projecting their views onto what he probably meant (if he ever actually meant any specific look) and it has just become accepted down the years. There is no way Tolkien would ever have mentioned dark ages/medieval - maybe in later conversation but not in the actual books. As far as I can remember, elves had a "light" and seemed slightly other worldly to the other characters, but I do not remember descriptions of their garb. If anybody has a specific reference it would be interesting to know.

Offline Tactalvanic

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 02:58:50 PM »
There are some mentions in the edited letters that have been published.

There's a tiny mention within letter 211, primarily regarding the Rohirrim and even a little about Numenoreans.

Not had much time to do more than glance and google, but it's a little at least, and in that does sort of mention mail armor... or similar, regards the Rohirrim, eg

"The Rohirrim were not 'mediaeval', in our sense. The styles of the Bay eux Tapestry (made in England) fit them well enough, if one remembers that the kind of tennis-nets [the] soldiers seem to have on are only a clumsy conventional sign for chainmail of small rings."

a quick google provides several links to some documents regarding some of the edited letters.

Something to research in more detail later  :)

Offline Coenus Scaldingus

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 03:06:57 PM »
The Silmarillion mentions Elves clad in mail (generally bright mail) quite a few times. The only Elven soldiers in the Lord of the Rings are the ones standing guard in Lothlórien, which are said to be clad in grey mail. Finally, there are Elladan and Elrohir, the sons of Elrond, who once again show up in bright mail.
As said before, (chain)mail is the dominant (and near enough sole) type of armour mentioned for Orcs, Elves, Dwarves as well as the men of Rohan and Gondor. It is this very ubiquitousness of chainmail that makes me call it Dark Age/early Medieval, as it doesn't matter if you're Irish, Norse, Norman or Frank, if you can afford armour, it's likely some form of chainmail. Tolkien himself mentions in one of his letters that the Rohirrim would look roughly like the figures depicted on the Bayeux tapestry, as quoted above.

Offline Ethelred the Almost Ready

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2017, 07:01:17 PM »
I did, of course, miss these chaps:


Iron Wind/Ral Partha miniatures.

I wish Tom Meier had sculpted more elves for the Ral Partha re-release.  These are absolutely perfect.

As I mentioned, I am completely biased as to what I want with Elves.  There are plenty of elves in plate armour, it surely isn't asking too much for someone to sculpt them in mail?

Tolkiens works are, of course, fiction and so can be interpreted in any way you wish but I think there are some definite descriptions of elven weapons and armour, and some general assumptions that can be made.  Elves are not alien looking - Turin, a man, was said to look like an elf.  You could argue that he wasd then an alien looking man, but I think it is meaning he was tall, dark of hair and fair of face.  I think it is a given that Tolkien elves didn't have particularly pointy ears, if they had points at all.  Mail is the only armour type mentioned.  Tuor had lived among Grey Elves when he was in hiding and was said to be surprised by the shape of the shields of the Noldor he later met (long and tapered - I assume a kite shield).  Noldor seem to have predominantly used swords.   The forces from Gondolin had spears at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.  Sindar were often armed with axes and, we must assume, smaller shields than the Noldor.

Offline Diablo Jon

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2017, 07:45:06 PM »
Another thought if you want a different more Celtic type of elf there is still the old Celtos Sidhe range








http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Celtos/The%20Sidhe.html

Offline Severian

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2017, 08:04:17 PM »
I did, of course, miss these chaps:


Iron Wind/Ral Partha miniatures.

I wish Tom Meier had sculpted more elves for the Ral Partha re-release.  These are absolutely perfect.


Yes, those are the guys. These are what we're after!

Still have my originals, most in half-done 30-year old enamel paint jobs; there are a few more in the range (including some fine bowmen in half-armour). Fantastic sculpts (and a revelation beside their Hinchliffe and Minifig contemporaries), but smallish even back in the day. I'll see if I can dig them out for photographs....

Offline katie

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Re: The rise and fall of the high elves. The state of models for elves.
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2017, 09:41:25 PM »
"I believe these Scotia Grendel miniatures were made with the Lord of the Rings in mind (someone more knowledgeable may be able to correct me, but I think they did have a licence for Lord of the Rings)."

They purchased the "Legends of the Realm" range from BTD. BTD had a licence for Lord of the Rings figures but it expired and things were renamed.

Thank you for the reconnection -- I'm after a second regiment of them, couldn't remember whose figures they are and was looking at the wrong Elfs because I hadn't remembered Scotia Grendel has TWO different Elf ranges.

 

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