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Author Topic: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s  (Read 56719 times)

Offline italwars

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Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #735 on: March 24, 2019, 12:00:34 AM »
Hi Italwars.So I figured right finally! And the jolie nana stuff would have proved it anyway: you ARE Italian! Great.
I have been quite rough not to first respond to your early welcome, but I was  like a child in a toy store really! I didn't figure that this forum could host such rich material, having read earlier mostly commonplace posts from time to time out of it. I finally decided to log in and to my surprise this is much more interesting than expected!
I once owned The sword and the flame, but that went missing with my last address change. To tell you the truth, I am from the old school and probably a little bit snobish about the modern lack of ambition (to my taste) of many young players, or lazziness of old hands... the old dog is me probably. I just get bored with remarks like "do we have to be Harvard graduates to read these rules" or " I don't want to get headaches with simulations!"    That is why I spoke of "erudition", because it compared to the company I used to play with years ago, to whom such level of knowledge was natural (I was learning much with them). But that once again must be the effect of my aging.
TSATF was my first taste of "modern" rules (I mean post-wrg way). I
admit that this was fun. I however am looking for the set "colonial skirmishes" of old, the one that inspired some parts of the famed "skirmish wargaming" book that you must know of. This is my grail.
Gringo miniatures are large indeed but humans are different anyway and I just received Aztecs from both G40 and The Assault group and intend to use them together

Pas de problème mon ami..and welcome on board ;) 8)
we share similar approach to the games...but i think that  "do we have to be Harvard graduates to read these rules ?" its a very fun remark...and could be justified by the fact that is very difficult, at least for me, to find opponents that  know the period and wargame rule in general in this case French Colonial  , that particular campaign and able to read something which is not in Italian..i suppose you can understand what i mean...TSATF is not a absolutly historical but let feel the trhrilling of a colonial moovie..in fact i must admit that i like colonial for the adventurous pulp approach..
"colonial skirmishes" rule set is very detailed, very good almost scientific approach..interesting to read, to study a composition of a small army and to plan a game with it..also to try to do some solo "battle training" on your table with a handful of minis..but , for my past experience if you try to set a skirmish game, even with no more than 20 minis per side , you will not end even for midnight and probably you ìll close the game or try to continue it the day after..so really not practical..by the way i like the skirmish/role playing approach which the periodand  beautuful personalised minis like the ones from Gringo call for that..TSATF could represent an affordable compromise..quite a few of my  European minis have been named, i follow a roster/table and some of them, like for example Lt  Gardel (or Depardieu  ;)) had even so far managed to survive more than one table top  battle
So we can conclude that we are all very lucky that Ged (Gringo), even if being from UK,  has developped a soft spot for French culture and military history and even for the Italian Risorgimento history...probably he has been "corrupted" by latin dishes/kitchen and wines if compared to his country's niceties like red beans at breakfeast and sandwiches with cucumber  ;) ;) ;) (just joking)
PS: Philippe i can help you with the rule systhem you're looking for..i ll write you in case a PM
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 12:05:05 AM by italwars »

Offline italwars

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 621
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #736 on: March 24, 2019, 12:39:42 AM »
Did you try The Men That would be kings?
I have some Touareg and french meharistes from Black Hat miniatures. Very nice. So these spahis from Gringo are also very tempting!
You must know the novels from Joseph Peyré: l'Escadron blanc, sous l'Etendard vert and Le chef à l'étoile d'argent. Is there the equivalent in Italy? Because we used to be neighbours too in the sahara, with a few Senoussi in between! Of course I have the Hugo Pratt comics.
I did'nt try TMTWBK but i read interesting things about it..my problem are opponent's absence..that  is i have always to look for to find rare  exceptions among "ineducated" average  Italian wargamers (or better say among Italians in general) somebody willing to play that period and with a minimum historical culture different from "ancient romans" and "WW2 Panthers"..believe me  is an almost impossible mission...so i only play with TSTAF possibly with an Italo/French/Pied Noir good friend of mine here in Rome  who love and know French Colonial History and another visiting US friend, a couple of time a year, that knows the period and the rules-sythem.
Of corse i read Escadron Blanc, Sous l'Etendard Vert ( i want to purchase also  Le chef à l'étoile d'argent cause i read that is a based on a true character..a sergeant/brigadier of Méharistes during the Touareg revolt in WW1)...plus a lot of others semi-official histories scanned on line..plus i purchased, before the web advent, quite a few reprints from Lavauzelle and even various big volumes of "Histoire des Armées Francaise d'Outremer" published in 1931 for the Exposition Coloniale..i was really mad in purchasing such antiquarian rare  volumes, even trough ordering them in USA, containing  plenty of battle maps..they cost me a leg and a arm..but anyway..we live only once...
we also had something similar to that sort of literature in Italy...above all dating from the end of the conquest of Lybia 1930-31..published during Fascist Régime..the rivalry with France even as concern Sahara appeared on those books..as concern Hugo Pratt, who i know is well appreciated in France, i really cannot stand his histories and his  lèche cu stance, even during the Seventies he could'ndt refrain to pay homage to the "politically correct"..it is quite difficult, for me , to understand why every Italian character in his histories is represented like a stupid and a coward while the ones  from every other possible  nationalities are not..but i have my thoughts..on the other hand i like his study of uniforms and landscapes...less his drawing trait which is typical of Italian Comics School of that period....if we speak about BD i strongly prefer..in fact i'm true fan of Tintin and , in a lesser way, also of  Alix , Graton's BD, Funcken..in fact i love "ligne claire"'s BDs..ok sorry i realize that maybe i'm going out of topic...By the way in a past post in this same tread , Gringo (Ged) has shown us and offered a very nice Spirou BD/Comics 's cover by Funcken showing the siege of Tuyen Quang with Légionaires and Marsouins that, after a few months, he promptly realised in 3 D !..in my office i used it as a  screen saver  lol
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 01:03:36 AM by italwars »

Offline gringo

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Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #737 on: March 24, 2019, 09:04:46 AM »
Italwars
...I have a "comic book" on Tonkin ,,available freely
which captures the period nicely..will put up cover later
these can be quite inspirationl :D

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com


Offline pallard

  • assistant
  • Posts: 27
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #738 on: March 24, 2019, 07:07:47 PM »
No you are not out of spot at all! Everything is connected!
I understand your point about Pratt, having felt the same impression that he was very much trying to please an american public. And as you mention comic taste, we could talk about that for hours. I was a Penningen student for six months in the late seventies before accepting my lack of talent for comics making... Besides Pratt I may also say that I am a fan of Diabolik  ;D... and of course of the ligne claire.
You would not be interested to sell the colonial skirmish rules by any chance? Probably not I suppose. I have produce myself some kind of personnal rules on a similar basis but with a larger scope going from Ancient to WW1, just as in the book "Skirmish wargaming". The first version goes back to the late seventies and playtest games at my club of the time: Les grandes compagnies de l'est parisien. Jean-Jacques Petit made his set about the Vendée war skirmishes out of this experience. I still worked on some sassanian lists this very afternoon! Finally I go back to them after each infidelity with newer sets!
I now play solitaire, and find myself very much in a close similitude to your situation. I get bored of competition players that you can see so proud of their bellies and T-shirt in Vae Victis pictures. Sainte-Hélène Napoleons I call them.
We used to have the nice company of an italian player, in my circle of 1990s players (not to mention our host Marcello Kramer, a most flashy character who has ancestors in maybe more than five nations, is Italian for the law, and speaks ladino, arabic, hebrew, greek, french of course, english and italian fluently). But the one I mention is Ivo Sferlazzo, a real mad sort of gamer who could write the most detailed rules about almost any period from an Ancient campaign to the glorious days of Regia Marina (guess who was always elite!). These were the days of enormous laughs about crazy points of detail he insisted on putting in effect for our games.

Offline pallard

  • assistant
  • Posts: 27
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #739 on: March 24, 2019, 07:30:28 PM »
And I was graced with meeting Fred and Lilian Funcken at their Bruxelles home with a friend editor. Fabulous moments of remembering anecdotes about Hergé, Jacobs (with whom they worked) Martin and his "young blond friends"...

Offline italwars

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 621
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #740 on: March 24, 2019, 09:59:02 PM »
And I was graced with meeting Fred and Lilian Funcken at their Bruxelles home with a friend editor. Fabulous moments of remembering anecdotes about Hergé, Jacobs (with whom they worked) Martin and his "young blond friends"...
That's a fascinating experience!   Jacque Martin  when i was a child it was very complicated, even if i was fascinated by the excellency of his drawings, to understand his stories...some real thrillers..now everything is clear...even if not historically correct (but who knows???) i tried to paint and convert my plastic 1:72 ancients as the characters of his albums
about rule systhems ecc...i've just sent you a PM
bonne soirée
Pier
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 01:13:47 AM by italwars »

Offline gringo

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Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #741 on: March 25, 2019, 02:15:07 AM »
looking at expanding the present range
will revert once decided upon and underway! :D

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com

Offline gringo

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Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #742 on: April 02, 2019, 07:44:36 AM »
looking forward to seeing LAF Guys/Girls at my Tonkin 1885 display game at Salute on the 6th April 2019.!!

cheers
Ged
www.gringo40s.com


Offline Antonio J Carrasco

  • mad scientist
  • Posts: 564
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #743 on: April 02, 2019, 10:53:23 AM »
looking forward to seeing LAF Guys/Girls at my Tonkin 1885 display game at Salute on the 6th April 2019.!!

cheers
Ged
www.gringo40s.com

Take photos, Ged! Lot of them! For those of us that can't make it to Salute this year!  :'(

At least we can enjoy it vicariously.

Offline pallard

  • assistant
  • Posts: 27
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #744 on: April 02, 2019, 01:52:37 PM »
New releases now available...…..
French marine/land artilleryand crew
French fusilier marine artillery and crew
French Mule drawn caisson
French General
Black flag artillery and crew
black flag general
Imperial Chinese Tonkin period Tiger men
Black flag Ncos
Ged
You'll pardon my being a french teacher... marine is feminine so you say infanterie de marine, or fulilier marin. Fusilier de marine should be right but is never employed. You can also say marsouin for a fantassin de marine, who is the equivalent of the royal marine.
I'm very much interested by the Tiger men in Tonkin: have you any proof of their presence?
Philippe
cheers Ged www.gringo40s.com :D

Offline pallard

  • assistant
  • Posts: 27
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #745 on: April 02, 2019, 02:25:38 PM »
Ged
You have now several asian ranges, including your wonderful new Tet Offensive line ! There is also a post on LAF about martial arts miniatures. Now what about having some actual martial artists in your ranges?
They are serious lines, so no fancy Shaolin stuff. Was there any martial artists involved in the fighting on both settings: well possibly for the first and certainly for the second. The southern chinese arts were introduced during late nineteenth century in Indochina, mostly in Tonkin. Vietnamese pretend that modern national arts such as Vôvinam, Vô Vietnam, Viet vô dao and the such are very ancient but there is no proof of that. They were later inspired by actual chinese martial arts introduced in the large han community in Tonkin. The chinese arts were mostly from two breeds, the tiger and the crane traditions, with "schools" from Hongkong (the Hong Jia) or from Fujian (Bai He quan). Lesser important forms like dragon or praying mantis may have also influenced training.
The Manchu, apart from their own wrestling and archery arts, were in the highest military grades trained in Hsing Hi (a martial internal form of boxing). But the Black Flags must have come mostly from southern populations and therefore may have known some form of the crane or tiger fighting ways.
You might find a place for a demonstrating Hong Jia tiger and crane master with maybe a weapon or in a fighting stance, or for a more gracious White Crane specialist. I can help you for the exact positions, as it needs precision. Vignettes would also be a possibility.
As for the Têt, the communists with northern training had no access to the southern arts like viet vo dao, but the North had its own martial art form, vovinam.
The American special forces, and the Koreans, were trained in korean arts: taegwondo for the chock troops, hapgido (precisely, Korean marine commandos and some green berets studied a more complete form named Daegu Hapgiyugwonsul, very very nasty) for infiltration and special undercover operations.
Once again I have information on these arts.
Cheers
Philippe

Offline Siaba

  • scientist
  • Posts: 264
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #746 on: April 03, 2019, 07:41:08 AM »
I did'nt try TMTWBK but i read interesting things about it..my problem are opponent's absence..

TMWWBK and Colonial adventures can both be played in solitaire  ;)
"The enemy? His sense of duty was no less than yours, I deem. You wonder what his name is, where he came from. And if he was really evil at heart. What lies or threats led him on this long march from home. If he would not rather have stayed there ... in peace. War will make corpses of us all."

Offline gringo

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Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #747 on: April 03, 2019, 10:53:20 AM »
Philippe

some great ideas there...will revert as soon as im able
I Salute mode at present mon ami! :D

regards
Ged
www.gringo40s.com

Offline AdamPHayes

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  • Posts: 290
    • Wargame Warrior
Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #748 on: April 07, 2019, 10:47:54 AM »
Nice looking game at Salute. Sadly didn't have a chance to play.


Offline Emir of Askaristan

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Re: Tonkin 1883-85 Next up for Gringo40s
« Reply #749 on: April 07, 2019, 12:58:26 PM »
Cracking display yesterday Ged. Lots to feast the eyes on.

Lovely!
Cheers

The Emir

 

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