Another informal poll. Would appreciate your opinions.

[Doc Twilight]

Hi, guys,

As you're probably sick of hearing me saying, I'm in the process of setting up my own Miniatures Company (Black Army Productions). Much of the success I've had so far has come because of the advice of my friends here, and I am very grateful. I thought I'd pluck your minds (again) concerning something else I've been working with.

This is all very provisional, based upon contingencies, finding the right sculptors, getting the concepts together, and more than anything else, plain and simple budgetary priorities.

In addition to the Shanghai 1930 range and the Champions of History range, one of my goals is to carry additional miniature ranges to cover some of my other interests, partly because of selfish reasons, and partly because I can see a genuine need for several items that would probably be useful for my fellow gamers. Don't plan to get rich with this, but hey, if I can break even, then fantastic.

Here's what I'm considering. Would you favor me with your opinions?

All of these would initially be in 28mm. I have considered 15mm ranges, but that can get to be an expensive proposition in terms of the numbers required. I'm not at all opposed to a smaller scale, but I'm still very new to this.

- A range for the Balkan theater in the First World War. This would eventually include all of the armies that fought in the Balkans - the Anzacs, Austro-Hungarians, British,  Bulgarians, French, Greeks, Italians, Montenegrans, Rumanians (*shudder*), Serbians, Turks, and British. We'd probably begin with ranges that have been largely neglected, and focus only on the figs that -aren't- currently being produced in ready quantities. So, Austro-Hungarians in caps are well covered, for example, but Austro-Hungarians in helmets are available as far as I know from only one company, Bulgarians in helmets are totally impossible to get, etc. This is a rather obscure subject, admittedly, but it's the front that first sparked my interest in the Great War, and I know there are others with the same interest.

- A range of WW2 Hungarians. I'm Hungarian-Irish on my father's side (very long story, there, but now you see where "Black Army Productions" comes from, as we have family ties to the Hunyadis), and I have a very good relationship with my Hungarian relatives and friends. I would like to do these guys in 28mm, as they seem to be rather hard to acquire at the moment. I would eventually do up some of their opponents, but the Hungarians themselves would be the primary focus. This range would definitely include Hungarian vehicles at some point.

- A range of vehicles similar in concept to the "Champions of History" range, but focusing upon particularly unusual designs or vehicles that simply aren't available. Once again, the whole bredth of history would be covered here - and I have sketches and information on everything from Assyrian War Machines and Late Roman Cataphract Chariots, a Confederate Steam Tank that was actually built in prototype form, and the Austro-Hungarian and German armored cars of WW1.

- A new fantasy range. I don't want to give up too much of the idea here, but hell, I'll give you the basic gyst. The idea is to place WW1 technology in a fantasy setting. It's something I've been working on for a long time (since I was a little boy and saw "All Quiet on the Western Front"), but I'm not sure how marketable it would be (obviously I like the idea, but it -is- my own idea). This would probably eventually include some supporting rules, but at the very least, I can think of a few very high quality rulesets out there that would provide a good game with low figure density. (.45 adventures springs immediately to mind. I guess it's fair to say I'm a pretty big fan of Rich's work.)

- A "Weird War One" range. This would be a dedicated range of WW1 era figures, but with a "Weird War" twist. A lot of us have talked about this here, and otherwise, but nobody's making much in terms of figures for such a milieu. This is my weakest idea at the moment, but I'm not at all opposed to it.

I would consider other periods, but frankly, the 19th century+ stuff is what's been selling best with most companies I've talked to.Nevertheless, something Ancient isn't out of the question.

Any suggestions, comments? Any one of these that would interest you?

In case you're wondering, I do have plans to add Chinese, Japanese, and other foreign troops to the Shanghai range eventually, so these ranges would cover other areas.

Thanks guys. I'm grateful.


-Doc

[Sterling Moose]

Hi Doc,

You sure do have big plans!!  You asked for opinions so here goes, firstly I think that as a miniatures manufacturer you rely heavily on jumping on the bandwagon of any rules that are currently popular.  Unless of course you intend to write your own or are so well known that the leaking of a proposed title is enough to have gamers reaching for their chequebooks (GW, THW etc).  Bear that in mind before pursuing some of those 'selfish' ranges with no current rules or following amongst the gaming populace.

I have limited knowledge regarding WW1, however you may be able to latch onto the interest currently generated by the Warhammer historical rules and the proposed supplement.  The Balkans will undoubtedly interest some.

WW2 Hungarians would be a nice distraction from the usual German vs Russian take on the Eastern Front.  Again my historical knowledge is somewhat lacking as the exploits of the Hungarian forces seen to be mostly overshadowed by those of their German allies, except for Stalingrad of course.

A range of unusual vehicles, hmmmmm.  It may take off, it may not depending on what you concentrate on.  The ancient vehicles (Assyrian War Machines and Late Roman Cataphract Chariots) may have limited popularity as it seems that most ancient gamers are dyed in the wool perfectionists or competition gamers.  The other examples given would probably be quite popular among the Pulp, VSF, alternate history fraternity.  A word or caution though, try to keep the costs down and the prices realistic.  Remember that most gamers are cheapskates (me included), pitch your prices at a level that a gamer would buy two or three rather than one.

WW1 fantasy range. Sorry can't comment, I've always believed that fantasy is Sword and Sorcery and anything involving Orcs, Elves, Dwarves etc in another time frame is just WRONG!!

"Weird War One" range. Not my cup of tea but might be popular, WW2 certainly is!  Is it different enough from VSF and Wierd War 2 to make an impact?

Good luck with whatever you do, and keep those greens coming for 'Champions of History'.  I must have some of those!

[traveller]

Hi Doc,

always nice to hear that new 28mm ranges are in the pipeline. I would pick the 20th century conflicts which have almost no coverage at all today:
-Spartakist/Ruhr/Munchen rising 1918-1921
-Estonian/Latvian/Finnish Civil War 1918-1920
-Russo-Polish War 1920
-Italian invasion of Libya 1911

The Balkan Wars are interesting, but several of the nations mentioned are already,or are on the way of being covered.
To increase number of variants, use loose heads. I am sure many gamers would do head swops anyway but to save us from all that chopping would be nice.

I think the Eureka "100 club" concept is worth considering. That would reduce risk and help with the budget planning.

Good luck!

[Plynkes]

I'd be interested in the Balkans, especially Bulgarians (with and without helmets). Yeah, Tiger already does them, but I seem to be alone in my opinion that their figures are pretty horrible. I won't be buying any more.  Have you considered Germans? I saw a picture the other day of some Germans in Serbia, wearing grey felt helmets (they look like pickelhaubes with the spikes removed), and with neck flaps attached to protect from the sun. That's a cool look that nobody else does. Also the high-style sun-helmet with a neck-flap was worn in Macedonia and elsewhere. Nobody makes those, either. They were used in Palestine, too, so you might get some crossover sales there.

The other stuff you mentioned isn't really my cup of tea.

[Doomhippie]

And I like the idea of the red army of the ruhr. However, try to make them as versitile as possible. As we have quite a few civil wars in Europe in the first 40 years of the 2oth century armed civilians could be used in a lot of settings.

[argsilverson]

Dear Doc,

I would like to comment on some matters you have placed on the forum:

.- Balkan wars/Macedonian front/WW1 in the balkans:
Already Tiger Miniatures has a compehensive range of Balkan war miniatures including Greeks,Turks, Bulgarians and Serbian army types. These are for the early Balkan wars era and yet they do not have helmeted types suitable for the WW1 onwards.
Old Glory also has some Serbians and Italians, no photo not more info available (to me at least) so, I do not know which types they have. At some earlier talk with OG UK, I was informed that OG is planning to release more nations like Greece and ....
TWDG aka Gripping beast has Turks etc. for WW1.
Copplestone has also some Turks in his ranges.
Brigade games has also some Turks, Germans etc for Palestine, Middle East etc., even Russians in adrian helmet, that could also fit in the Macedonian front.
Scarab's Austrians are suitable for balkans, too.
[It is obvious that all the above companies have lots of other ranges covering WW1, Australians and so on. Also other companies-for example Cannonfodder, BH etc have their ranges, too. Here I am concentrated  on most suitable ranges I know for the Balkan States. It is obvious for example that lots of ranges exist for Gallipoli Aussies etc, if I forgot someone, please excuse]
Further to the above I know that there is some interest from others to make some new ranges suitable for the Macedonian Front as well.

However, Macedonian Front is a very interesting subject: I believe is the only place you can find Greeks, Serbians, Montenegrin, French zouaves & Senegalese, Australians and British, Russians, Cretans, Germans, Bulgarians, Austro-Hungarians, Turks even American nurses in one place.
Here is the link to the photo, already shown in LAF titled: "Our polyglot Army"
http://www.gwpda.org/memoir/Salonica/salonpix.htm

Concidering the above there is plenty of room for anybody to produce many interesting figures!
Also seeing your first Greens I am sure these will be nice.

From the above initially there is a lack of special characters, personalities and "esoteric" figures like Montenegrin guards, correct Cretan gendarmes, Bulgarian guards, Romania mountain troops etc or personallities generals/Venizelos the Greek PM of the time and so on . The main lack is sailors and specially sailors manning vessels!
So, my suggestion is to make these characters/specials either as a range  or as part of a  preordering scheme [like Eureka's 100 club] as it is suggested by traveller. Another thing is to make figures and issue several head ranges for conversions etc.
For more please PM me.

WW2:
Hungarians: I think this topic is already covered by some others. I am not in such a depth in WW2 so I cannot comment a lot. It is better to wait until others can give better ideas.

However I think that there is a lack of Balkan -since we spoke about balkans WW1- partizans like Ygoslavians, Greek  and some cretans suitable for the battle of Crete.

Other suggestion:
I do not know whether Latvian or Estonians had very different look from other armies of the era, but definitely we need some Poles with czapkas or Ukrainians with their distinctive caps for BoB/RCW.
Spartakists: yes. It is an era uncovered. The only ones I know are the Kameraden range of Cannon Fodder miniatures. I would like also to see some interesting figures and personalities.
Also Freikorps etc, including those bavarians in lederhosen shorts!
I would also would like to see early/pulp era nazis, or those facist guys saluting etc suitable for interwar/pulp era games

For other eras I would suggest GWI (Greek War of Intependence 1821-1830) featuring from greeks in tradional dress and oriental muskets to british napoleonic officers in helmet and greek kilt-fustanella - turks in turbans, egyptian regulars etc. This range, being totally neglected, doesnot exist in 28mm and vanished in 15mm after the passing out of Spyros Koumousis.

For the rest: Sorry not my stuff.

BTW have you added any figures in your site from Shangai range? I can't wait to see them!!!!  

[Plynkes]

The Aussies went to Macedonia? I didn't know that.

That's not saying much, mind. 

[argsilverson]

The Aussies went to Macedonia? I didn't know that.

That's not saying much, mind. 

at least Gallipoli !
[Gallipoli is also in the Balkan peninsula, approx. 300 km from Thessaloniki. Gallipoli is in the geographical region of East Thrace]

[Tom Reed]

Hey Doc,

Of your ideas the ones that seem most interesting to me are the vehicles and the fantasy stuff. If I might ask a question, are you thinking skirmish or larger scale actions with the fantasy line?

[scarabminiatures]

Hi Doc

Unsure if its going to help or not, but once we have got Great War in Italy well covered I was planning on looking at the rest of the Balkans as we diversify and add new ranges. We are also going to add some relevant vehicles and artillery, thats being costed currently.

Ditto the weird/fantasy WW1 type stuff although like you I have not really dug into the detail or the viability as getting the real historical models done is the foremost part of the plan for the moment.

World War 2 is very popular, and I would suggest that starting a company with something popular (eg it might sell lots!) is a good thing, rather than start with some more obscure as it takes a long time and lots of promotion before any orders start to come in! We can speak from experience there 

[Doc Twilight]

Hello, all.

Thanks very much for your honesty and opinions. I am, as ever grateful. Please keep them coming.

In answer to some of the issues/questions raised (forgive me if I've missed your question, not intentional.)

As far as the possibility of doing European revolutionaries goes, I am not entirely opposed to the idea. At the very least, you can
look for some of the famous personalities in upcoming waves of the "Champions of History" range. Nestor Mahkno will definitely be there, and we might have a Rosa Luxembourg, too, to name a couple. On a slightly related note, there has been increased interest on this side of the Atlantic in an American equivalent of "A Very British Civil War", and it has been suggested by more than one person that I consider producing a few figs to support said concept. Again, not a bad idea, and something I'm willing to consider.

The main problem with the European political disturbances of the 30s is that many are very region specific, and they lack broad appeal amongst our relatively small community. That said, they do interest me, and it's something I'll put on a list of possibilities for a future date.

In answer to the Balkan comments, I want to clarify that I'm speaking of the First World War Balkans here,  not the Balkan Wars, in which the uniforms, motivations, and alliances were somewhat different (Not to mention the weapons.) Yes, there are Bulgarians and Serbs available, but so far as I know, they are very definitely for the Balkan Wars, and not for the Great War.
Thanks, Arg, for the link on the Macedonian Front. I will investigate forthwith.

I'm glad that there is some interest in the vehicle line. It would be one of the easier ranges to get started. I would be looking at doing a wide variety of things. I've recently added an Euzkadi on the list of things "to do". Just have to find the vehicle sculptor, and the budget.

Finally, as for the Shanghai, 1930 ranges, the greens are still with the sculptor at this stage. He will be producing an initial three models for my approval; if they fit my preferences, then we'll move on from there to approve the rest of the range. I expect to see the first of these, most likely, by the end of the month, if not sooner. I am told that two of the three are very far along.
The three initial figs include three figures that could easily be used as personalities.

-Alex