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Author Topic: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?  (Read 2762 times)

Offline Argonor

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Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« on: December 01, 2017, 06:43:27 AM »
I think I've seen some very nicely painted 'very early' Romans on here some time ago - but are there 'complete' ranges of minis for the time before the Roman Republic and the city state of Rome's early struggles against its neighbours?

And if so, are there any rulesets specifically well suited for the period (I guess, rules meant to represent the Greek/Persian and Peloponesian wars would do)?

I am toying with the idea of painting some small warbands for some skirmish-gaming (I need something to get me back into painting, as I have not been able to motivate myself since finishing a Viking warband for SAGA early spring this year, and painting single, colourful minis might be the route to go).
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Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 12:32:14 PM »
In 28mm there's no dedicated range for the Roman kingdom. However, since Rome was a cultural melting pot you can pick and choose from several sources, namely ranges covering Etruscan, Samnite, or other "hill tribe" armies. When I did my 6th century warband Aventine was my first choice. If you avoid chainmail and (pseudo-)Corinthian helmets, they should work just fine, the Volscians in particular. You may also take a look at Gorgon Studio's Etruscans, sculpted by Steve Saleh. The website's lost most pictures, but do a quick image search, they'e very nice models.

Rules are a bit tricky as well. Warfare in early Rome seems to have been largely limited to cattle raids and counter-raids. To my knowledge, most games set specifically in Ancient Greece do not cater for such small-scale enagegments, so you might be better off using any skirmish ruleset that doesn't put an emphasis on ranged combat. I considered using Tribal by Mana Press; its take on "honour" as a decisive factor in battle may also suit early Roman warfare.

Offline Goliad

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 08:06:24 PM »
I had wondered about using Dux Bellorum rules. Small engagement, missile fire is limited and you can differentiate between hoplite/shieldwall types and warrior types with added javelins (hill tribes). From some things I have read recently though it seems like even Etruscans/Romans in hoplite kit would have still fought in the warrior tradition. This makes sense when a lot of warfare was small scale raiding for animals and/or honour. The usual suspects like Lion Rampant or Saga would probably adapt fine.

Another set of rules I have looked at are "Gangs of the Bronze age" which are set for Trojan War but focus on honour acquisition by your stable of heroes. The rules use playing cards instead of dice. It has an interesting mechanic around morale/combat whereby when you win combat, the difference in the number cards ultimately played is used by the winner to either move opponents back (morale loss) or move own forces forward (morale gain). 

I agree this is an interesting period - and you can bring in all sorts of different "factions" like Celts and Ligurians.

Offline Argonor

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2017, 10:14:23 PM »
Interesting inputs, here, thanks!

I'll have some more looks into Tribal, I think; I already considered getting it some time ago, and it seems usable for various themes/periods, so maybe...


Offline FierceKitty

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2017, 01:52:28 AM »
What on earth is "chainmail"?
The laws of probability do not apply to my dice in wargames or to my finesses in bridge.

Offline Kommando_J

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2017, 02:07:49 AM »
To echo other comments, skirmish is the way to go, i'd suggest Broken Legions possibly?
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Offline Westfalia Chris

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2017, 09:31:29 AM »
What on earth is "chainmail"?

An erroneous neologism probably coined by Sir Walter Scott, widely popularised in the 1980s and 1990s by GW and various RPG products, used here to refer to lorica hamata. Now stop trying to provoke a fight when everyone knows what is meant, even if the actual term is etymologically iffy, and let the good folks have their discussion.

Offline Codsticker

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2017, 05:50:01 PM »
An erroneous neologism probably coined by Sir Walter Scott, widely popularised in the 1980s and 1990s by GW and various RPG products, used here to refer to lorica hamata. Now stop trying to provoke a fight when everyone knows what is meant, even if the actual term is etymologically iffy, and let the good folks have their discussion.
Seconded.

Offline Argonor

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2017, 11:01:23 AM »
To echo other comments, skirmish is the way to go, i'd suggest Broken Legions possibly?

I have BL, and although it seems to be aimed at Imperial Rome, it has tropes from all over antiquity, so it may have the necessary armour types for the earlier more 'hellenistic' style warriors (I haven't been reading it with scrutiny), so I'll have another look at that, too.

Thanks.

I am not going to get any hobby time in until after Christmas (my daughter had knee surgery a couple of weeks ago, and she is taking up much time when I'm off work), but I hope to get something started up during winter.

Offline Argonor

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2018, 09:27:52 PM »
So, after a long hiatus, due to the aforementioned knee surgery and spending a lot of time on my daughter's rehab training, I am now slowly trying to re-ignite my hobby mojo.

So, what sources are available on the enemies of very early Rome, then (around 500 BC, give or take 50 years)?

I have Osprey MAA 283 which shows exactly 3 non-romans from the pre-republican period (one of which is not identified - he may be a dead Sabine, dressed and equipped almost identically to the Romans), apart from that I have not got a lot to look at.

Offline rumacara

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 10:14:39 PM »
I think the best advise for the romans are the references given by Doc Morris.
About enemies, i think every one was fighting against eachother so Samnites versus Etruscans or maybe some celts raiding border settlements.

Offline Argonor

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2018, 11:47:37 PM »
I think the best advise for the romans are the references given by Doc Morris.
About enemies, i think every one was fighting against eachother so Samnites versus Etruscans or maybe some celts raiding border settlements.

Ah, sorry, I meant weapons/equipment, and such.

I found a wiki-entry about Etruscans, stating their equipment to be similar to that of the Greeks (round bronze shields, muscle cuirasses, even Corinthian-style (among other) helmets), so Greek minis from that era could be a starting point? I happen to have some Warlord plastics squandering about somewhere...

Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2018, 09:50:40 AM »
Ah, sorry, I meant weapons/equipment, and such.

I found a wiki-entry about Etruscans, stating their equipment to be similar to that of the Greeks (round bronze shields, muscle cuirasses, even Corinthian-style (among other) helmets), so Greek minis from that era could be a starting point? I happen to have some Warlord plastics squandering about somewhere...

For 6th century Italy you may look for "early" or "archaic period" hoplites. So a good number of bell cuirasses but very few Corinthian helmets. If the Warlord set is identical to the former one by Immortal, it might provide a fair few suitable models. However, the minis are rather small and slender and visibly different from most other offerings out there. Not ideal in a skirmish-sized setting.
Your best bet is still to use either Aventine or the dedicated range by Gorgon (links above). Both cover Italian 'fashions' as well which are otherwise hard to come by. ;)

Offline pws

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2018, 10:45:16 AM »
Per aspera ad astra
pippoweb.blogspot.it

Offline rumacara

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Re: Kingdom of Rome vs Italian city states (and Etruscans)?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2018, 06:04:09 PM »
Also if you already have warlord plastics, check Aventine for separated heads that ight suit the period and use the plastic ones. That probably gives you a good mix of equipment/figures.

 

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