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Author Topic: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!  (Read 8758 times)

Offline Momotaro

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2018, 07:37:32 PM »
Am I the only ne not that interested in the SW franchise? I saw the first one as a kid and while I loved the toys, the movies always seemed hackneyed to me. Not to spoil the fun of others, but it’s really just a western in space...

Star Wars was a "bottled lightning" moment.  Japanese cinema had become enamoured of great Western stories.  The Kurosawa film Yojimbo is a retelling of Dashiell Hammett's dark pulp novel Red Harvest, and his other films Throne of Blood and Ran are retellings of Macbeth and King Lear respectively.  By the late 60s and early 70s, Western (and indeed western) film-makers had noticed how wonderful these stylised Japanese films were.  A Fistful of Dollars is a western rewrite of Yojimbo,a nd you can read in interviews with the likes of Coppola, Spielberg and Lucas just how excited they were about Japanese cinema.

Star Wars is the result of these - Campbell's hero's journey told through a filter of a Samurai and post-oil crash rustbelt Americana design aesthetic, with whole scenes nicked from other films.  it looks like a western because it is one... and a samurai movie, and a fairytale, and a WWII movie (the Death Star battle sequences were originally filled in during pre-screenings with scenes from WWII and Korean fighter-plane sequences).  The fact that it fits perfectly as an Icelandic saga (thanks Hobgoblin) tells me that the core of the film is arechetypal (rather than stereotypical or cliche).

The fact that much of the film is wonderful... well it's come out over the years just how much other people were able to guide Lucas away from his worst instincts (compared with the prequels, where he was working off first drafts, and nobody had the power to day "no" to him).  The dialogue could be "shit", the story is not without its flaws, but the structure of the script, the flesh put on to the characters and the world-building are lean and effective.

Compare the opening sequence of SW, which tells us everything we need to know about the Empire and the Rebellion, with the mess we have in the sequels - nobody seems to know who the Resistance and the first Order actually ARE.  And the Death Star assault is a solid piece of writing - you have a map, a countdown and clear objectives and obstacles.  Empire was better because he had less input; RotJ worse because he had more.

Not just a shot at the sequel films - modern film-making has forgotten how to write tight scripts and strong characters, and JJ Abrams and his stable of Lost scriptwriters have blighted Hollywood.  Not just them - as Scurv said, Star Wars, Star Trek, Predator, Alien, Robocop, Highlander and Terminator would have been something better if the respective franchises had ended some time in the late 80s or early 90s.

Offline Too Bo Coo

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2018, 08:48:35 PM »
Star Wars was a "bottled lightning" moment.  Japanese cinema had become enamoured of great Western stories.  The Kurosawa film Yojimbo is a retelling of Dashiell Hammett's dark pulp novel Red Harvest, and his other films Throne of Blood and Ran are retellings of Macbeth and King Lear respectively.  By the late 60s and early 70s, Western (and indeed western) film-makers had noticed how wonderful these stylised Japanese films were.  A Fistful of Dollars is a western rewrite of Yojimbo,a nd you can read in interviews with the likes of Coppola, Spielberg and Lucas just how excited they were about Japanese cinema.

Star Wars is the result of these - Campbell's hero's journey told through a filter of a Samurai and post-oil crash rustbelt Americana design aesthetic, with whole scenes nicked from other films.  it looks like a western because it is one... and a samurai movie, and a fairytale, and a WWII movie (the Death Star battle sequences were originally filled in during pre-screenings with scenes from WWII and Korean fighter-plane sequences).  The fact that it fits perfectly as an Icelandic saga (thanks Hobgoblin) tells me that the core of the film is arechetypal (rather than stereotypical or cliche).

The fact that much of the film is wonderful... well it's come out over the years just how much other people were able to guide Lucas away from his worst instincts (compared with the prequels, where he was working off first drafts, and nobody had the power to day "no" to him).  The dialogue could be "shit", the story is not without its flaws, but the structure of the script, the flesh put on to the characters and the world-building are lean and effective.

Compare the opening sequence of SW, which tells us everything we need to know about the Empire and the Rebellion, with the mess we have in the sequels - nobody seems to know who the Resistance and the first Order actually ARE.  And the Death Star assault is a solid piece of writing - you have a map, a countdown and clear objectives and obstacles.  Empire was better because he had less input; RotJ worse because he had more.

Not just a shot at the sequel films - modern film-making has forgotten how to write tight scripts and strong characters, and JJ Abrams and his stable of Lost scriptwriters have blighted Hollywood.  Not just them - as Scurv said, Star Wars, Star Trek, Predator, Alien, Robocop, Highlander and Terminator would have been something better if the respective franchises had ended some time in the late 80s or early 90s.

"The fact that much of the film is wonderful..." I'm not certain that is indeed a fact.  I recall an interview with Gene Roddenberry about his vision for Star Trek and he commented that he was forced to make it more mediocre than he preferred because the studio wanted mass appeal, not ununderstandable, but this of course means that storytellers who embrace this ethos turn out rather ordinary products and I think the use of the word 'hackneyed' was not an overstatement.
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Offline dinohunterpoa

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2018, 11:19:25 PM »
That's how you make a classic. Not with the terrible storytelling where an impossible hero comes out of nowhere with no explanation, not where coincidences and shoddy writing are used to force moments or solve problems. If you go through lists that describe fundamental axioms of good storytelling (Pixar showed theirs a while back, here and it's a good basic example). The new sequels break so many of these rules.

That "Pixar Story Rules" is AWESOME, thank you very much for the link!  ;)

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Offline JamesValentine

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #138 on: January 16, 2018, 12:24:14 PM »
not gonna repeat whats already been said a thousand times.
Star Trek was murdered by hollywood.
Star Wars has been murdered by hollywood.

I guess its back to lower budget Chinese films that can do allot better with 50% the resources.

Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #139 on: January 18, 2018, 02:33:16 AM »
Marvel/Disney has reacquired the Conan license, so a new comic series is expected in 2019 - maybe PG13 movies in the future? 

On a related note, ‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi’ Has Already Been Pulled From Chinese Theaters...

Claims of Chinese audiences being unfamiliar with the series seems more like spin, as the mediocre TFA and the superior Rogue One, made more than this half-arsed conflation of fan fiction side stories.

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #140 on: January 18, 2018, 12:08:28 PM »
Claims of Chinese audiences being unfamiliar with the series seems more like spin, as the mediocre TFA and the superior Rogue One, made more than this half-arsed conflation of fan fiction side stories.

I lived in China for years, and everyone knows 星球大战. They knew about it before the prequels too. Chinese cities are full of pirate DVD shops, and the Star Wars films are an absolute staple.

Online Plynkes

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #141 on: January 18, 2018, 12:57:52 PM »
Marvel/Disney has reacquired the Conan license, so a new comic series is expected in 2019


Oh man, judging by what Marvel comics have been like for the past few years, that's not going to go down well.

I loved the Dark Horse Conan while Cary Nord was the artist, but when he stopped doing it much of the shine went off it for me. But with Marvel at the helm we're probably gonna get shitty art and shitty writing. I hope not, but I'm not optimistic.


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Offline Emir of Askaristan

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #142 on: January 18, 2018, 01:24:17 PM »
SO as a slight aside, what's happened to Black Angel?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 11:30:14 PM by Emir of Askaristan »
Cheers

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Offline YPU

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #143 on: January 18, 2018, 09:33:18 PM »
I saw it last weekend, with 2 friends who had already seen it once but were ok with tagging along for one more go.

Interesting tidbit, the cinema I was at (older mom and pop dealio, reall classy one too) had an intermission, been a good long while since I've had one of those. But after that, the first 20 or so minutes felt like very very good, like the movie was redeeming itself entirely. Then it drooped again back to ok levels sadly. It was interesting though, without that break in the middle I would not have noticed.
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Offline FramFramson

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #144 on: January 18, 2018, 10:03:12 PM »
I loved the Dark Horse Conan while Cary Nord was the artist, but when he stopped doing it much of the shine went off it for me.
Oh absolutely. It was alright for a little while afterwards, but not that long.

I think my favourite issue was the Tower of the Elephant one.

Offline Condottiere

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #145 on: January 19, 2018, 02:51:58 AM »
Oh man, judging by what Marvel comics have been like for the past few years, that's not going to go down well.

I loved the Dark Horse Conan while Cary Nord was the artist, but when he stopped doing it much of the shine went off it for me. But with Marvel at the helm we're probably gonna get shitty art and shitty writing. I hope not, but I'm not optimistic.
Mixed reactions on the Swords of REH: Conan Back at Marvel in 2019...

Had high expectations after Iron Shadows, but my enthusiasm waned with Road of Kings, despite being penned by Roy Thomas, and Wood's Queen of the Black Coast felt off to awful in quality. I'd say the decline occurred around the time that awful reboot movie came out. The quality had improved thanks to Van Lente, although the art varied, and the last issue set things up for another series, but now it won't happen thanks to Marvel. >:(

Now Glénat to Publish Conan Comics, as It’s All Public Domain in Europe
Quote
Recently, Marvel Comics announced they had acquired the Conan licence from Conan Propertirs for comic books, based on the Cimmerian warrior books written by Robert E. Howard. Dark Horse Comics reminded everyone that they still had the license until the end of 2018.

But that’s in the USA.

After the success of its recent Elric adaptation, one of the largest French publishers Glénat has decided to adapt 12 Robert E. Howard Conan stories into graphic novels.

Each adaptation will be from a different creative team, including the folk at CreART.

There won’t be any kind of “standard” look for Conan’s appearance. Each creative team will draw the Cimmerian their way.

The first will be published in May, adapting Howard’s early Conan work, The Black Colossus as a comic by Vincent Brugeas, Kellee Riley, and Toulhoat.

Dark Horse already adapted it back in 2010 with Timothy Truman,‎ Tomas Giorello, and Jose Villarrubia.

As well as a colour edition, it will also be published in black and white.

Because Robert E. Howard committed suicide in 1936, his work has been in public domain in Europe since 2006, 70 years after the death of the author.

In the USA, the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act adds an extra 25 years on that. So the Glenat work can’t be published in the USA, without breaking Conan Properties deal with Dark Horse and then Marvel Comics.

But equally, if Dark Horse wanted to keep publishing new Conan comic books — they probably could. As long as it was outside of the USA. But they couldn’t license or publish their already-published work internationally, as that was created under license from Conan Properties and is a new work in and of itself.





Offline Bahir

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Re: The LAF star wars discussion thread. SPOILERS!
« Reply #146 on: February 08, 2018, 05:50:06 PM »
Mostly enjoyed it but I don't like what they have done with Luke's character. No wonder Mark wasn't happy.

Pretty much this.

The Luke Skywalker is not the Luke Skywalker I remember from my youth. As a lad, all the guys wanted to be Luke, because he was the hero!  The extended universe (now, non-canon I believe) portrayed him as the ultimiate Jedi. He was the hero that left his training with Yoda to face his greatest fear (Vader) and to save his friends. It seemed incongruous that he would try to slay Kylo even in a moment of self-doubt.

My only hope is that they bring Luke back and somehow redeem the situation.

 

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