Submarine Forms for Shipwreck rules?

[Mako]

I asked about this over on the Shipwreck Yahoo Group, but activity there is a little light, so thought I'd ask here as well.

Anyone know where I can find the Submarine Forms for the subs of various nations?

They're not included in the files on the Yahoo group, or in the downloads from Wargame Vault, now, apparently.

Years ago, they used to be included in the various files/PDFs for each nation/group of nations, like the USA, Warsaw Pact, etc., etc..  There were stats for SSKs, SSNs, SSGNs, and SSBNs, which provided info on weapons available, the number of avoidance dice to throw, etc., etc..

Would love to have access to those again, too.

Thoughts?

[Mako]

I had more success on the Yahoo Group.

Sub files are now available there.

The Shipwreck rules, and the scenario supplement, Freeplay '88 can be purchased from Wargame Vault as a PDF.  They also have the ship forms listed there as pay what you want files.

Recommended, for quick playing, modern, naval battles.

[frank xerox]

Never played Shipwreck but Im enjoying Tankwreck the land war equivalent, (1982's 11th ACR getting an awful kicking from the 79th Gaurds so far), really good fast enjoyable, realistic feeling rules.
But like Shipwreck you dont hear much about them -  a fashion thing about old sets of rules maybe?

[Mako]

They've been available for quite some time, but you're right, other than on the Yahoo Group, you don't hear much discussion about them.

I think that's generally true for a lot of Modern Naval gaming as well, which seems to have less participation that other genres, or types of combat, e.g. land and air.

I suspect that is due to the complexities of naval warfare, and to complex rules as well.

A lot of people seem to prefer computer gaming for Cold War/Modern/Ultramodern warfare, and rightly so, since there can be so much complexity, and so many variables, if you want a truly detailed set of rules, like with Harpoon.  With more than just a few vessels, and/or other weapons systems platforms, and you can quickly get in over your head.

That's why I think Shipwreck is a reasonable alternative, since it permits you to play, with reasonable outcomes, without spending endless hours flipping through a rule book to look things up, or to deal with what occurred during the current/last 30 second turn.

It's not perfect, and needs some house rules, stats, etc., to fill in some gaps, but I think it works rather well, if you do a little tweaking.

I'm certainly going to give it a try again in the coming days/weeks/months, as time permits.  Might even try running a scenario or two at the local club, to see what others think, as well.

[frank xerox]

Sounds like the way to go - I dont know much about modern naval, but I would assume Id need to be Steven Hawking to get my head round a set of rules for it and if that wasnt the case it might be enough to get me playing.
Either that or Rum 

[Mako]

Nah, that's not really necessary with these rules, especially if you keep the battles small to begin with.

They're easy to tweak to your liking as well, to simplify things, or to add more detail, as desired.

D10s are a plus too, for more granularity in outcomes.

I suggest pitting a few small missile boats against one another, in hypothetical or historical engagements, or pitting a few of those against a larger naval vessel or two.

The ship sheets clearly show the capabilities of the vessels for surface-to-air, surface-to-surface, and anti-sub combat.  Several of them can be printed out on one page, for ease of use, and even more, if you print them double-sided.

With those, and the double-sided QRS (Quick Reference Sheet), you're good to go.

Aerial and sub attacks on shipping can be good fun too, and small scenarios can be played out in 15 - 30 minutes, or so, once you're familiar with the rules, stats, and dicing conventions.

The basic rules PDF is $13.50, IIRC, and the Freeplay '88 supplement is the same, I think.  I recommend buying the latter too, since it includes more rules (adds in aircraft, etc.), vessel stats, and scenarios that can either be played as a campaign, or as stand-alone battles.

I can't recommend them enough.  Definitely worth the small price of admission.

For vessel minis, if you're on a tight budget, you can go with 1/6000th scale.  They're nicely crafted, but very small. 

Many game in 1/2400th (mainly US players), and 1/3000th scales (more of a UK-centric scale). 

I like the superb detailing of the 1/2400th, but some of the vessels, especially carriers, can be quite expensive ($40 from GHQ).  The 1/3000th are nice wargaming pieces, and are much more affordable, relative to their larger cousins.